Okay maybe I am slow and didn't read something right... but if I am correct animate dead says you must maintain the dead every 24 hours by using the spell again on them or lose control of them. Here lies the issue, it doesn't really tell you what happens... Like does the skeleton fall to pieces now that your magic ran out on them? Do they stand there like morons with nobody to command them since they were made by you so they technically have zero free will? Or do they become hostile? Can someone more experienced on this topic enlighten me on this part? Do I need to shackle my dead if I need to save my spells? Do I need to have space to carry limbs and parts when they collapse? or should i have them lay in a temp grave I made them dig to preserve them for when I need them because they are mindless dolls?
Thanks ahead of time for the answer I have loved the response time and quality in these forums so far!!!
it say´s " The creature is under your control for 24 hours, after which it stops obeying any Command you've given it" and like the other dead spells it becoms hostile and will hunger for flesh and the dead of the living // i try to put a pic in where it say´s it but can´t put find how i hope it help´s you anyway
No need, and thanks for the answer. So would you say shackling the dead would be a good solution to stock up on them until you get a bag of holding or something?
Also I was wondering about this same topic btw, if I were to let's say find someone willing like a dying soldier could I resurrect him if his soul was willing as an undead soldier to get revenge? Just curious since I could see playing that wondering necromancer granting people their chance at revenge. Also this brings up something I also was wondering... since warlocks pledge their soul for power could you make soul pacts with those at deaths door that can't be saved to make a sentient army who thinks for themselves but stay loyal to you?
Could see this as evil for army wise but could be Chaotic or lawful good depending on intent... paladin would be pissed but if you are raising the dead anyways I doubt the paladin thinks very highly of you to begin with lol.
the most undead that players can make have no free will and or anythink from the person that thy where like zombies,skeletens,gouls,ghast,wights or mummies and some of then can make even more undead
but tink in a world where you can bring peopel from the grave back to life just for a Diamant is it sooo good that you will bring them back in a form of zombies ?
Well good and evil is about intent not action like a paladin who would strike down a lich for existing because liches are evil right? But what if that lich became a lich in order to have the life span to figure out how to stop the greatest evil there is? Does this make the paladin evil? no it makes him over zealous and ignorant but not evil because in his mind he thinks he is saving many by killing that one. Same goes for the lich, what if said greatest evil was branded as such because the greatest good was secretly the greatest evil to begin with and feared it. Sooo it is good if the intent is good, but the outcome itself may be negative yet not evil. Just wanted to throw this out there on the last line you said lol.
But damn that sucks but I figured as much just wanted to know 100% that i couldn't.
Also that video was really fun to watch love those kinds of videos on things but sadly I don't care too much about being as powerful as possible, just wanted to understand the mechanics as much as possible so not my play style but was very very informative! Thanks and i appreciate the info!
I like the idea of a massive cave you keep closed, filling it with undead skeletons and zombies until you're ready to use them. They you dangle something for them to chase to get them to that pesky kingdom that's been asking for a good razing!
Also, good/evil can be more than intent, but selfishness. The Paladin who mows down a dozen villagers to kill a murderous goblin could be evil, even if his intent is good. This gray area is where things get interesting!
In my D&D world I am making as a DM I changed the afterlife and raising the dead isn’t evil but if you screw with souls too much the keeper of the afterlife will make yours absolute hell because souls are his property by right.
He is more powerful than any god unless he leaves his domain which makes him mortal and if killed the killer would recieve the mark and become the new keeper of the afterlife
Okay maybe I am slow and didn't read something right... but if I am correct animate dead says you must maintain the dead every 24 hours by using the spell again on them or lose control of them. Here lies the issue, it doesn't really tell you what happens... Like does the skeleton fall to pieces now that your magic ran out on them? Do they stand there like morons with nobody to command them since they were made by you so they technically have zero free will? Or do they become hostile? Can someone more experienced on this topic enlighten me on this part? Do I need to shackle my dead if I need to save my spells? Do I need to have space to carry limbs and parts when they collapse? or should i have them lay in a temp grave I made them dig to preserve them for when I need them because they are mindless dolls?
Thanks ahead of time for the answer I have loved the response time and quality in these forums so far!!!
The answer to this is in the descriptions of the undead you create, zombies and skeletons.
A zombie left without orders simply stands in place and rots unless something comes along that it can kill. The magic animating a zombie imbues it with evil, so left without purpose, it attacks any living creature it encounters.
Independent skeletons temporarily or permanently free of a master’s control sometimes pantomime actions from their past lives, their bones echoing the rote behaviors of their former living selves. The skeleton of a miner might lift a pick and start chipping away at stone walls. The skeleton of a guard might strike up a post at a random doorway. The skeleton of a dragon might lie down on a pile of treasure, while the skeleton of a horse crops grass it can’t eat. Left alone in a ballroom, the skeletons of nobles might continue an eternally unfinished dance.
I wanted to add, you don't need to cast Animate Dead "every 24 hours", technically. The initial cast lasts 24 hours. From then on, every time you cast it before losing control of them (technically, before "the current 24-hour period ends") adds 24 hours. So you could, for example, animate them and immediately cast the spell again, and you'd have control over them for 48 hours. From then on, while the last 24 hours are running, you can cast it again to extend the period for 24 more hours. So you don't need to cast it at the same time every day, just as it would end, but rather at any point before it ends, as long as there are 24 hours or less to go before losing control. It makes it a bit easier to maintain control over them, since you have a full 24 hours to find the opportunity to re-cast and reassert control.
So would you say shackling the dead would be a good solution to stock up on them until you get a bag of holding or something?
No, that would not be a good solution, since after you lose control, you can't re-gain it by casting the spell. You would need to find new corpses or piles of bones to re-animate. You could get away with re-animating the bones of a dead skeleton (you'd need to kill it, first, though), but from a strict reading of the rules you can't re-animate a dead zombie, since the spell requires "a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid", and a dead zombie is a corpse of a Medium undead, not humanoid. Your DM might let you do it, anyway, since once dead, you can argue that it's the same corpse, physically, so you should be able to target it with Animate Dead. That would be an entirely reasonable house rule.
I wanted to add, you don't need to cast Animate Dead "every 24 hours", technically. The initial cast lasts 24 hours. From then on, every time you cast it before losing control of them (technically, before "the current 24-hour period ends") adds 24 hours. So you could, for example, animate them and immediately cast the spell again, and you'd have control over them for 48 hours. From then on, while the last 24 hours are running, you can cast it again to extend the period for 24 more hours. So you don't need to cast it at the same time every day, just as it would end, but rather at any point before it ends, as long as there are 24 hours or less to go before losing control. It makes it a bit easier to maintain control over them, since you have a full 24 hours to find the opportunity to re-cast and reassert control.
I took that to mean you get 24 hours from the time you cast it every time you cast it. But if I had a player who wanted to make extra sure to maintain control, I'd probably let them buffer it like that, within reason. 1 day per casting is a pretty tidy way of keeping track of how long you have them for though, so I may go with that. I never thought about it that way.
I wanted to add, you don't need to cast Animate Dead "every 24 hours", technically. The initial cast lasts 24 hours. From then on, every time you cast it before losing control of them (technically, before "the current 24-hour period ends") adds 24 hours. So you could, for example, animate them and immediately cast the spell again, and you'd have control over them for 48 hours. From then on, while the last 24 hours are running, you can cast it again to extend the period for 24 more hours. So you don't need to cast it at the same time every day, just as it would end, but rather at any point before it ends, as long as there are 24 hours or less to go before losing control. It makes it a bit easier to maintain control over them, since you have a full 24 hours to find the opportunity to re-cast and reassert control.
I took that to mean you get 24 hours from the time you cast it every time you cast it. But if I had a player who wanted to make extra sure to maintain control, I'd probably let them buffer it like that, within reason. 1 day per casting is a pretty tidy way of keeping track of how long you have them for though, so I may go with that. I never thought about it that way.
The relevant quote is: "To maintain control of the creature for another 24 hours". "Another" means it's an extra set of 24 hours; whichever hours are left from the current duration can't be included in "another 24 hours". (If I have a bag of Skittles, and I give you 5, and I say "you can have another 5 Skittles if you ask me before you've eaten all I gave you earlier", and you eat 3, and then asked me for more, it wouldn't be correct for me to give you 3 more, and say "there, with the 2 you already had, that makes 5", because I offered "another 5 Skittles", I did not offer to add enough Skittles to make 5 again, or to "reset your Skittle count to 5".)
It's an easy mistake to make; I made it myself when I first started playing my Necromancer. I had to have someone point it out to make me go back and re-re-read the entry. =)
I see what you're saying. I just think yours is a pretty generous interpretation of the sentence :)
I don't see the spell as a bag of skittles to be accumulated because the 24 hour timer is a depleting resource from the moment you cast it. To stick with your analogy, I see each casting more like dropping that skittle in a glass of water that takes 24 hours for it to completely dissolve. You cast the spell, you drop in a skittle. You cast the spell again again, you drop in a second skittle. Why would the first skittle stop dissolving while the second was doing the same or vice versa? As long as there is any piece of undissolved skittle in the water, you retain control of the undead. I tried looking around online to see if I could find anyone else talking about stacking castings to extend the control for more than 24 hours at a time. I cannot find a single other mention of it other than another thread on these forums where you bring it up. It's certainly an inventive take though.
I see what you're saying. I just think yours is a pretty generous interpretation of the sentence :)
I don't see the spell as a bag of skittles to be accumulated because the 24 hour timer is a depleting resource from the moment you cast it. To stick with your analogy, I see each casting more like dropping that skittle in a glass of water that takes 24 hours for it to completely dissolve. You cast the spell, you drop in a skittle. You cast the spell again again, you drop in a second skittle. Why would the first skittle stop dissolving while the second was doing the same or vice versa? As long as there is any piece of undissolved skittle in the water, you retain control of the undead. I tried looking around online to see if I could find anyone else talking about stacking castings to extend the control for more than 24 hours at a time. I cannot find a single other mention of it other than another thread on these forums where you bring it up. It's certainly an inventive take though.
i agree. is there a sage advice on the intent behind this? casting the spell 3 times in a row to get 72hrs of a zombie just doesn't seem logical. also idk of any other spells you can stack like that...maybe they exist?
I was talking to a friend and kinda wish she was in my game I am dm'ing, she wants to be a clockwork necromancer so I would let her have permanent undead with one cast as long as she spent the gold to integrate them with gears to maintain control over them. Would be really cool flavor wise and would be more fun to me than cast cast cast don't kill me cast cast. I feel the animate dead should have been a feat for necromancy rather than a spell since you lose out on casting spells which kinda ruins the feel of a wizard... who wants to just stand there doing nothing?
Since this isn't posted in Rules and Game Mechanics, I would side with Tonio. For the sake that, if a player wanted their character concept based around maintaining control over undead, his solution provides an easy way to do that without applying a critical timing approach. It is a little freely interpretive of the rules in my opinion so, while I would probably allow it, others might not.
I don't really see the harm in stacking it. You're still spending a spell slot for every day of control. I just never thought of it in those terms before.
I see what you're saying. I just think yours is a pretty generous interpretation of the sentence :)
I don't see the spell as a bag of skittles to be accumulated because the 24 hour timer is a depleting resource from the moment you cast it. To stick with your analogy, I see each casting more like dropping that skittle in a glass of water that takes 24 hours for it to completely dissolve. You cast the spell, you drop in a skittle. You cast the spell again again, you drop in a second skittle. Why would the first skittle stop dissolving while the second was doing the same or vice versa? As long as there is any piece of undissolved skittle in the water, you retain control of the undead. I tried looking around online to see if I could find anyone else talking about stacking castings to extend the control for more than 24 hours at a time. I cannot find a single other mention of it other than another thread on these forums where you bring it up. It's certainly an inventive take though.
i agree. is there a sage advice on the intent behind this? casting the spell 3 times in a row to get 72hrs of a zombie just doesn't seem logical. also idk of any other spells you can stack like that...maybe they exist?
That wouldn't work. You can only reassert control when there are less than 24 hours left (i.e. "before the current 24-hour period ends").
Honestly, having the remaining time reset to 24 hours on casting (rather than adding 24 hours, like the spell describes) is pretty limiting, since it means two things: a) the only way you're getting the full 24 hours is by letting it run out and losing your undead, and b) it means eventually you're gonna lose them, unless you start making your day shorter, waking up increasingly earlier every day, until your day is fully out of sync with your party members', which is not very fun.
So would you say shackling the dead would be a good solution to stock up on them until you get a bag of holding or something?
No, that would not be a good solution, since after you lose control, you can't re-gain it by casting the spell. You would need to find new corpses or piles of bones to re-animate. You could get away with re-animating the bones of a dead skeleton (you'd need to kill it, first, though), but from a strict reading of the rules you can't re-animate a dead zombie, since the spell requires "a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humannd a dead zombie is a corpse of a Medium undead, not humanoid. Your DM might let you do it, anyway, since once dead, you can argue that it's the same corpse, physically, so you should be able to target it with Animate Dead. That would be an entirely reasonable house rule.
Actually, per the description of the spell, you don’t have to find new corpses. Once you lose control over them, you can use that spell to reassert your control. RAW don’t state you lose the control forever, just that if you don’t want to lose control, recast the spell to maintain it. But you can regain control over them if you lose it.
“The creature is under your control for 24 hours, after which it stops obeying any command you've given it. To maintain control of the creature for another 24 hours, you must cast this spell on the creature again before the current 24-hour period ends. This use of the spell reasserts your control over up to four creatures you have animated with this spell, rather than animating a new one.”
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Okay maybe I am slow and didn't read something right... but if I am correct animate dead says you must maintain the dead every 24 hours by using the spell again on them or lose control of them. Here lies the issue, it doesn't really tell you what happens... Like does the skeleton fall to pieces now that your magic ran out on them? Do they stand there like morons with nobody to command them since they were made by you so they technically have zero free will? Or do they become hostile? Can someone more experienced on this topic enlighten me on this part? Do I need to shackle my dead if I need to save my spells? Do I need to have space to carry limbs and parts when they collapse? or should i have them lay in a temp grave I made them dig to preserve them for when I need them because they are mindless dolls?
Thanks ahead of time for the answer I have loved the response time and quality in these forums so far!!!
it say´s " The creature is under your control for 24 hours, after which it stops obeying any Command you've given it" and like the other dead spells it becoms hostile and will hunger for flesh and the dead of the living // i try to put a pic in where it say´s it but can´t put find how i hope it help´s you anyway
No need, and thanks for the answer. So would you say shackling the dead would be a good solution to stock up on them until you get a bag of holding or something?
Also I was wondering about this same topic btw, if I were to let's say find someone willing like a dying soldier could I resurrect him if his soul was willing as an undead soldier to get revenge? Just curious since I could see playing that wondering necromancer granting people their chance at revenge. Also this brings up something I also was wondering... since warlocks pledge their soul for power could you make soul pacts with those at deaths door that can't be saved to make a sentient army who thinks for themselves but stay loyal to you?
Could see this as evil for army wise but could be Chaotic or lawful good depending on intent... paladin would be pissed but if you are raising the dead anyways I doubt the paladin thinks very highly of you to begin with lol.
the most undead that players can make have no free will and or anythink from the person that thy where like zombies,skeletens,gouls,ghast,wights or mummies and some of then can make even more undead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsfyh3M_IKc
maybe you can find that a fun idear
but tink in a world where you can bring peopel from the grave back to life just for a Diamant is it sooo good that you will bring them back in a form of zombies ?
Well good and evil is about intent not action like a paladin who would strike down a lich for existing because liches are evil right? But what if that lich became a lich in order to have the life span to figure out how to stop the greatest evil there is? Does this make the paladin evil? no it makes him over zealous and ignorant but not evil because in his mind he thinks he is saving many by killing that one. Same goes for the lich, what if said greatest evil was branded as such because the greatest good was secretly the greatest evil to begin with and feared it. Sooo it is good if the intent is good, but the outcome itself may be negative yet not evil. Just wanted to throw this out there on the last line you said lol.
But damn that sucks but I figured as much just wanted to know 100% that i couldn't.
Also that video was really fun to watch love those kinds of videos on things but sadly I don't care too much about being as powerful as possible, just wanted to understand the mechanics as much as possible so not my play style but was very very informative! Thanks and i appreciate the info!
I like the idea of a massive cave you keep closed, filling it with undead skeletons and zombies until you're ready to use them. They you dangle something for them to chase to get them to that pesky kingdom that's been asking for a good razing!
Also, good/evil can be more than intent, but selfishness. The Paladin who mows down a dozen villagers to kill a murderous goblin could be evil, even if his intent is good. This gray area is where things get interesting!
In my D&D world I am making as a DM I changed the afterlife and raising the dead isn’t evil but if you screw with souls too much the keeper of the afterlife will make yours absolute hell because souls are his property by right.
He is more powerful than any god unless he leaves his domain which makes him mortal and if killed the killer would recieve the mark and become the new keeper of the afterlife
The answer to this is in the descriptions of the undead you create, zombies and skeletons.
From the description ofzombie:
And from skeleton:
I wanted to add, you don't need to cast Animate Dead "every 24 hours", technically. The initial cast lasts 24 hours. From then on, every time you cast it before losing control of them (technically, before "the current 24-hour period ends") adds 24 hours. So you could, for example, animate them and immediately cast the spell again, and you'd have control over them for 48 hours. From then on, while the last 24 hours are running, you can cast it again to extend the period for 24 more hours. So you don't need to cast it at the same time every day, just as it would end, but rather at any point before it ends, as long as there are 24 hours or less to go before losing control. It makes it a bit easier to maintain control over them, since you have a full 24 hours to find the opportunity to re-cast and reassert control.
No, that would not be a good solution, since after you lose control, you can't re-gain it by casting the spell. You would need to find new corpses or piles of bones to re-animate. You could get away with re-animating the bones of a dead skeleton (you'd need to kill it, first, though), but from a strict reading of the rules you can't re-animate a dead zombie, since the spell requires "a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid", and a dead zombie is a corpse of a Medium undead, not humanoid. Your DM might let you do it, anyway, since once dead, you can argue that it's the same corpse, physically, so you should be able to target it with Animate Dead. That would be an entirely reasonable house rule.
I took that to mean you get 24 hours from the time you cast it every time you cast it. But if I had a player who wanted to make extra sure to maintain control, I'd probably let them buffer it like that, within reason. 1 day per casting is a pretty tidy way of keeping track of how long you have them for though, so I may go with that. I never thought about it that way.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The relevant quote is: "To maintain control of the creature for another 24 hours". "Another" means it's an extra set of 24 hours; whichever hours are left from the current duration can't be included in "another 24 hours". (If I have a bag of Skittles, and I give you 5, and I say "you can have another 5 Skittles if you ask me before you've eaten all I gave you earlier", and you eat 3, and then asked me for more, it wouldn't be correct for me to give you 3 more, and say "there, with the 2 you already had, that makes 5", because I offered "another 5 Skittles", I did not offer to add enough Skittles to make 5 again, or to "reset your Skittle count to 5".)
It's an easy mistake to make; I made it myself when I first started playing my Necromancer. I had to have someone point it out to make me go back and re-re-read the entry. =)
I see what you're saying. I just think yours is a pretty generous interpretation of the sentence :)
I don't see the spell as a bag of skittles to be accumulated because the 24 hour timer is a depleting resource from the moment you cast it. To stick with your analogy, I see each casting more like dropping that skittle in a glass of water that takes 24 hours for it to completely dissolve. You cast the spell, you drop in a skittle. You cast the spell again again, you drop in a second skittle. Why would the first skittle stop dissolving while the second was doing the same or vice versa? As long as there is any piece of undissolved skittle in the water, you retain control of the undead. I tried looking around online to see if I could find anyone else talking about stacking castings to extend the control for more than 24 hours at a time. I cannot find a single other mention of it other than another thread on these forums where you bring it up. It's certainly an inventive take though.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
i agree. is there a sage advice on the intent behind this? casting the spell 3 times in a row to get 72hrs of a zombie just doesn't seem logical. also idk of any other spells you can stack like that...maybe they exist?
I was talking to a friend and kinda wish she was in my game I am dm'ing, she wants to be a clockwork necromancer so I would let her have permanent undead with one cast as long as she spent the gold to integrate them with gears to maintain control over them. Would be really cool flavor wise and would be more fun to me than cast cast cast don't kill me cast cast. I feel the animate dead should have been a feat for necromancy rather than a spell since you lose out on casting spells which kinda ruins the feel of a wizard... who wants to just stand there doing nothing?
you can build your own sub class, it's a lot of work but i have built one and it's pretty fun after all is said and done.
Since this isn't posted in Rules and Game Mechanics, I would side with Tonio. For the sake that, if a player wanted their character concept based around maintaining control over undead, his solution provides an easy way to do that without applying a critical timing approach. It is a little freely interpretive of the rules in my opinion so, while I would probably allow it, others might not.
I don't really see the harm in stacking it. You're still spending a spell slot for every day of control. I just never thought of it in those terms before.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That wouldn't work. You can only reassert control when there are less than 24 hours left (i.e. "before the current 24-hour period ends").
Honestly, having the remaining time reset to 24 hours on casting (rather than adding 24 hours, like the spell describes) is pretty limiting, since it means two things: a) the only way you're getting the full 24 hours is by letting it run out and losing your undead, and b) it means eventually you're gonna lose them, unless you start making your day shorter, waking up increasingly earlier every day, until your day is fully out of sync with your party members', which is not very fun.
Ah I see what you’re saying. So you don’t wait for the timer to end, you can essentially reset the timer by casting it again.
In that case I can agree, i don’t think it would hurt the game too much. Though waiting for it to end could also be interesting.
Actually, per the description of the spell, you don’t have to find new corpses. Once you lose control over them, you can use that spell to reassert your control. RAW don’t state you lose the control forever, just that if you don’t want to lose control, recast the spell to maintain it. But you can regain control over them if you lose it.
“The creature is under your control for 24 hours, after which it stops obeying any command you've given it. To maintain control of the creature for another 24 hours, you must cast this spell on the creature again before the current 24-hour period ends. This use of the spell reasserts your control over up to four creatures you have animated with this spell, rather than animating a new one.”