Not sure if it's the purpose of this forum to use it as a support group for you own issues, but I'm curious if any of you experienced something similar and has some ideas how to deal with this kind of situation:
I'm fairly new to D&D and I've only played in two or three groups so far, but I noticed that I always end up just listening for most of the game, simply because I never get to talk. And no, that isn't because my group is full of self centered people, who intentionally ignore me, it's just that I'm a slower talker and I usually take one or two seconds to think about my actions before I start talking. So, when I see an injured person ingame for example, I'm about to describe to the group how my character is going to heal them, but before I can get the first word out, another player has already started talking and described their character healing the guy and all I can do is sit in silence and watch as my plan just became completely pointless. And of course, since it is the polite thing to do, I wait untill they are done talking, before I describe my next actions, but just before I can do that, the next person has already started talking, so I have to wait for them to finish as well, and so on and so on, so that in the end I ended up saying nearly nothing during the entire session.
It's admittedly rather frustrating and while it varies from group to group how bad it is, it is something that I'd really like to improve but I'm not sure how. And before you ask, yes I already brought this up in game and it has nothing to do with the other players. If something needs to change, the change has to come from my side not theirs
But yeah, if someone has experience with something similar and has a tip or two how to best handle that kind of situation, I'd more than just appreciate it.
As a DM when I realize stuff like this, I often directly ask the player what they want to do before the other players can do something or create a situation that only they can solve to bring them into the game.
And I would say being a bit on the slow side is no excuse for the other players to take your turn away. They do know that you could heal and it would be polite to ask you in game, e.g. Hey "insert your character's name here" can you do something "blah blah blah" is bleeding out... stuff like that.
Or: the dm could just say: we take turns like initiative and everybody says what they intend to do and then the group decides together what to do, so everyone gets a chance to say and do something. It is mot fair at all that only the fastest talker at the table gets to do stuff because he was a bit faster than other players...
Yeah, I understand your frustration. I too seem to spend more time formulating than most and so tend to end up simply listening during a lot of conversations. Interestingly, I find this is often the case in general life, but not so much at the game table. Probably because I'm the DM. So, there's your answer: be the DM! :)
I'm only half joking since, in my experience, it's much less of an issue when the roles are clear. Teacher-Student, Performer-Audience, DM-Player, Customer-Staff Member, etc. I think it's something to do with giving myself permission to "claim the stage". If something in my role gives me inherent permission to claim the stage then I can happily do so and think on my feet, formulating as I go. Without that, though, I feel I have to "bring something to the party", that without that pre-formulated idea I'd simply be "blowing my own trumpet".
Also, the smaller the group the less it's an issue since, in a two or three person conversation you inherently have that permission by virtue of the fact you're one of the very few people involved. Less of an issue too with friends and family that I know and trust since I guess I feel like they've put up with me this long, they've clearly given me standing permission to just be my own glorious idiotic self :)
So yeah, freeform social situations with large groups of strangers, I may as well not be there :)
Anyway, so if any of that rings true for you at all, then maybe try focusing on play with smaller groups of folks who you're closer to. Or try working with the idea that your role as player at the table does in fact give you that permission to claim the stage. You don't need to solve the puzzle first. You can claim the stage with, as DxJxC said above, something as simple as "Um...", and then solve the puzzle right there in front of everyone.
I have encountered this exact scenario a lot. In the game, it seems the more vocal, more honestly aggressive players are always trying to talk, solve the problem and push their narrative. One player I game with regularly seemingly has a neurosis that if she is not actively part of what ever is going on at the table, she is invisible and will be forgotten. To lessen the imbalance and ensure everyone has a chance to talk I introduced a "Talking Piece" to the game.
My "Talking Piece" is a little toy dog in a dragon costume and it has the power to allow any one player holding it to speak at the table. She resides snuggled up against the side of my DM screen the majority of the time, because I have to talk to the party the majority of the time. If a situation occurs and the players want to act or ask me questions or begin to plan then the Talking Piece is given to a player. Which Player gets the talking piece first? I actually let the game system determine that for me: Highest Wisdom, if tied, Charisma breaks the tie, then Intelligence if still deadlocked. Once I have determined that order, I place the player of that PC at my left at the table and will hand the Talking Piece to that Player if appropriate to the scene.
That player will get the first chance to say what their PC's intentions are. I then direct the Talking Piece around the table according to what players indicate. Sometimes the players are fine with a course of action indicated by a prior PC. Other times a debate can ensue, with the lil Dog, being passed back and forth among players as they plan a course of action. It is slow going but I am training my Players to indicate "desire" rather than "action" when they talk to me. Actions are not in the game: "I hit the Orc with my Ranseur!" or "I cast Healing Word on the bleeding Friar." but instead, in keeping with the conceit that this is a game, "I thrust my gladius at the minotaur!" (which implies a chance of failure)or "My PC wants to cast Cure Light Wounds on Glorith the Mage, she is down to her last few HPs." (which could invite discussion among the PCs as the Rogue remembers he nicked a Potion of Healing from the Baroness of Evilville last session and offers that option instead.)
Not to be too full of myself, but this method has greatly improved flow at my games and ensured even the quietest, most deliberate thinkers at my table get a chance. Moreover, if my 10-11 year olds at the Gaming Club can do it, any group can!
Yeah, I am totally in your same boat. I am a relative newcomer to the RL group I play in, and am feeling like I'm not much more than an extra combat dummy. As soon as there's a piece of loot or a puzzle object, someone else says, "I grab the whatsis." As soon as there's a choice of directions to go, someone else says, "I'm going down the north corridor" and I have to either follow or split the party. As soon as there's a problem to solve, everyone is blurting out their solution. Once I even was the first to say something, and one of the long-time players just ignored me and went on with his solution to the problem, after which the DM turned to me and said, "Okay, and you said you were transforming?" At which point there was no longer any need for my solution. It doesn't help that I am playing a druid, and one of the other players is a firbolg paladin who can speak with animals at will and has better heals than me, and the party bard provides redundancy for almost every druid skill the Paladin doesn't have.
I am having to learn to be quicker and more insistent and pushier and louder, if I want to be anything more than a second-rate battle stooge.
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Edeleth Treesong (Aldalire) WoodElf Druid lvl 8 Talaveroth Sub 2 Last Tree StandingTabaxi Ranger, Chef and Hoardsperson lvl 5, Company of the Dragon Team 1 Choir Kenku Cleric, Tempest Domain, lvl 11, Descent Into Avernus Test Drive Poinki Goblin Paladin, Redemption, lvl 5, Tales from Talaveroth Lyrika Nyx Satyr Bard lvl 1, The Six Kingdoms of Talia
Again, the issue is how table etiquette is run and how actions are adjudicated. Players should not think in terms of "My PC does X." but instead "My PC wishes to do X." This game requires a Player to roll for to determine an outcome, stating that you for instance "hit" the Giant before rolling is technically bad form. Moreover, the DM needs to learn to shush those players that are constantly blurting out or outbursting at the table. This is a cooperative game, and everyone needs to be part of the team to "win" as it were.
To curb overzealousness and ensure everyone at the table gets a reasonable say in what happens, restructure the group's table talk to reflect intention and not action. It will help. Promise!
Yeah, I am totally in your same boat. I am a relative newcomer to the RL group I play in, and am feeling like I'm not much more than an extra combat dummy. As soon as there's a piece of loot or a puzzle object, someone else says, "I grab the whatsis." As soon as there's a choice of directions to go, someone else says, "I'm going down the north corridor" and I have to either follow or split the party. As soon as there's a problem to solve, everyone is blurting out their solution. Once I even was the first to say something, and one of the long-time players just ignored me and went on with his solution to the problem, after which the DM turned to me and said, "Okay, and you said you were transforming?" At which point there was no longer any need for my solution. It doesn't help that I am playing a druid, and one of the other players is a firbolg paladin who can speak with animals at will and has better heals than me, and the party bard provides redundancy for almost every druid skill the Paladin doesn't have.
I am having to learn to be quicker and more insistent and pushier and louder, if I want to be anything more than a second-rate battle stooge.
Hate to advise adversarial interpersonal tactics at the table, but the Firbolg can only talk to small animals of limited intelligence and his ability does not make them either smarter or even good communicators. A spell does a better job when cast than a racial ribbon ability. Remind the DM of this. Next, the Paladin does have a potent pool of healing, Lay on Hands, but they should be reserving their limited amount of precious spell slots for Smiting! Even then, as a Druid in 5e, healing in combat is just not your thing. You cannot keep ahead of the damage curve with your spells; no class can because of the way 5e is designed. The most successful Druids in games I run and have seen are a combination of Skirmisher (taking advantage of Wildshape HPs) and Controllers because a number of their spells like the lower level Spike Growth can shape the battlefield tremendously. Healing is a Tertiary or Quaternary aspect of the character. In the make up you mentioned, I would shove the party buff/healing role on to the full spell caster Bard. And yes, the Bard is second only to the Rogue as a skill monkey, competing with them over skill proficiency is a bad idea. That said a Druid can literally outstealth a rogue. Trying to sneak past a city guard in a dungeon to reach a prisoner? No one will bat an eye at a rat. Aside from that talk with the player of the Bard and the DM and see where proficiencies can be shifted so that your PC has more place to shine. Perhaps the Bard should take Arcana, History or Religion, instead of Nature or Survival allowing your PC to fill that role for the group.
A further point on the firbolg - they can talk toanimals and basically have advantage to make themselves understood. Animals still can't talk back, so there's no shaking down the squirrel to use as an informant. For that they need the spell speak with animals - which paladins don't get. But druids do (and bards and rangers).
The Firbolg's "Speech of Beast and Leaf" says "You have the ability to communicate in a limited manner with beasts and plants. They can understand the meaning of your words, though you have no special ability to understand them in return. You have advantage on all Charisma checks you make to influence them."
Oh, and to the OP, maybe discuss with your DM and come up with a small hand signal to indicate "I have something I want to say but I need a minute to put my thoughts together" that the DM can watch for and say, "OK, frostfox, you have something? What are you doing?"
I think there is some good advice above and to add to Maestrino's statement, I also recommend talking to the DM but instead of raising your hand, just develop a signal like stacking your dice and see if that gives the DM the opening to say, "Hey, what do you want to do?"
Have this happen now and then with my group. They know to put their hand up when they want to get something in when things get crazy. As DM when I see that hand go up I acknowledge the player and let the conversation finish then I take over and recognise the player who had their hand up to speak and no one interrupts.
So yes. Speak with the DM on having better control over the table. It's nothing bad and everyone should have a place to speak.
Just give people a heads up you have something planned: "Once you've finished healing that guy, I have something I'd like to do."
If the other players have good etiquette they should then pause to allow you to act next. If they don't, it's time to talk with them outside of game time so they know how you feel.
Just sounds like you need to be a bit more assertive when there is something you want to do. Jumping in and saying something along the lines of "Hey, I can help with that" to give you a bit more time to maybe form a sentence for whatever you wanted to do.
I too would recommend talking to your DM and see if they can help. In my group there is a player who is quieter and doesn't speak out. We're a new group but we all know each other outside of gaming. I try to watch how much I say so I don't talk over the person but sometimes it can be hard (we're playing VTT). But our DM does go out of his way to say, ""X player" what are you going to do?" or something like that because he knows there are a few more boisterous personalities in the group and wants to make sure that person has their time to shine.
It may feel ridiculous, but if you have something you want to do before anyone else, try raising your hand, or saying like "oh, I have something for this!" You can get that out, then everyone knows to put a hold on whatever they were gonna say and give you time to describe your actions at your own speed.
It may feel ridiculous, but if you have something you want to do before anyone else, try raising your hand, or saying like "oh, I have something for this!" You can get that out, then everyone knows to put a hold on whatever they were gonna say and give you time to describe your actions at your own speed.
True, but that only works irl. I mostly play online, which doesn't really allow for that luxury and makes the whole affair even more difficult, since like this the others can't even really see that I was trying to talk, which otherwise might have caused at least one or two to pay attention to me.
Anyways, it took me quiet a bit of time to come back to this and as I can see, there were quiet a few other people with a similair poblem like me, so I'm glad if this might have helped one or two of you to deal with your own hardships. As for me, I think I figured out a way to deal my situation, so I should be fine. But I just wanted to pop in real quick anyway, since I wanted to thank all of you for your answers and helping me. I really appreciate it. You guys are awesome^^
Its something that i noticed but in the spur of the moment, people tend to speak fast and tries to act quick, like they are on a timer or something, and they're afraid that if they don't go fast enough the DM will do something, even though the action can be suspended for has long as it takes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Not sure if it's the purpose of this forum to use it as a support group for you own issues, but I'm curious if any of you experienced something similar and has some ideas how to deal with this kind of situation:
I'm fairly new to D&D and I've only played in two or three groups so far, but I noticed that I always end up just listening for most of the game, simply because I never get to talk. And no, that isn't because my group is full of self centered people, who intentionally ignore me, it's just that I'm a slower talker and I usually take one or two seconds to think about my actions before I start talking.
So, when I see an injured person ingame for example, I'm about to describe to the group how my character is going to heal them, but before I can get the first word out, another player has already started talking and described their character healing the guy and all I can do is sit in silence and watch as my plan just became completely pointless. And of course, since it is the polite thing to do, I wait untill they are done talking, before I describe my next actions, but just before I can do that, the next person has already started talking, so I have to wait for them to finish as well, and so on and so on, so that in the end I ended up saying nearly nothing during the entire session.
It's admittedly rather frustrating and while it varies from group to group how bad it is, it is something that I'd really like to improve but I'm not sure how.
And before you ask, yes I already brought this up in game and it has nothing to do with the other players. If something needs to change, the change has to come from my side not theirs
But yeah, if someone has experience with something similar and has a tip or two how to best handle that kind of situation, I'd more than just appreciate it.
Maybe start with a semi-polite "um" like holding your place in line to speak.
Maybe talk to your DM?
As a DM when I realize stuff like this, I often directly ask the player what they want to do before the other players can do something or create a situation that only they can solve to bring them into the game.
And I would say being a bit on the slow side is no excuse for the other players to take your turn away. They do know that you could heal and it would be polite to ask you in game, e.g. Hey "insert your character's name here" can you do something "blah blah blah" is bleeding out... stuff like that.
Or: the dm could just say: we take turns like initiative and everybody says what they intend to do and then the group decides together what to do, so everyone gets a chance to say and do something. It is mot fair at all that only the fastest talker at the table gets to do stuff because he was a bit faster than other players...
Just my 2 cents
Yeah, I understand your frustration. I too seem to spend more time formulating than most and so tend to end up simply listening during a lot of conversations. Interestingly, I find this is often the case in general life, but not so much at the game table. Probably because I'm the DM. So, there's your answer: be the DM! :)
I'm only half joking since, in my experience, it's much less of an issue when the roles are clear. Teacher-Student, Performer-Audience, DM-Player, Customer-Staff Member, etc. I think it's something to do with giving myself permission to "claim the stage". If something in my role gives me inherent permission to claim the stage then I can happily do so and think on my feet, formulating as I go. Without that, though, I feel I have to "bring something to the party", that without that pre-formulated idea I'd simply be "blowing my own trumpet".
Also, the smaller the group the less it's an issue since, in a two or three person conversation you inherently have that permission by virtue of the fact you're one of the very few people involved. Less of an issue too with friends and family that I know and trust since I guess I feel like they've put up with me this long, they've clearly given me standing permission to just be my own glorious idiotic self :)
So yeah, freeform social situations with large groups of strangers, I may as well not be there :)
Anyway, so if any of that rings true for you at all, then maybe try focusing on play with smaller groups of folks who you're closer to. Or try working with the idea that your role as player at the table does in fact give you that permission to claim the stage. You don't need to solve the puzzle first. You can claim the stage with, as DxJxC said above, something as simple as "Um...", and then solve the puzzle right there in front of everyone.
I have encountered this exact scenario a lot. In the game, it seems the more vocal, more honestly aggressive players are always trying to talk, solve the problem and push their narrative. One player I game with regularly seemingly has a neurosis that if she is not actively part of what ever is going on at the table, she is invisible and will be forgotten. To lessen the imbalance and ensure everyone has a chance to talk I introduced a "Talking Piece" to the game.
My "Talking Piece" is a little toy dog in a dragon costume and it has the power to allow any one player holding it to speak at the table. She resides snuggled up against the side of my DM screen the majority of the time, because I have to talk to the party the majority of the time. If a situation occurs and the players want to act or ask me questions or begin to plan then the Talking Piece is given to a player. Which Player gets the talking piece first? I actually let the game system determine that for me: Highest Wisdom, if tied, Charisma breaks the tie, then Intelligence if still deadlocked. Once I have determined that order, I place the player of that PC at my left at the table and will hand the Talking Piece to that Player if appropriate to the scene.
That player will get the first chance to say what their PC's intentions are. I then direct the Talking Piece around the table according to what players indicate. Sometimes the players are fine with a course of action indicated by a prior PC. Other times a debate can ensue, with the lil Dog, being passed back and forth among players as they plan a course of action. It is slow going but I am training my Players to indicate "desire" rather than "action" when they talk to me. Actions are not in the game: "I hit the Orc with my Ranseur!" or "I cast Healing Word on the bleeding Friar." but instead, in keeping with the conceit that this is a game, "I thrust my gladius at the minotaur!" (which implies a chance of failure)or "My PC wants to cast Cure Light Wounds on Glorith the Mage, she is down to her last few HPs." (which could invite discussion among the PCs as the Rogue remembers he nicked a Potion of Healing from the Baroness of Evilville last session and offers that option instead.)
Not to be too full of myself, but this method has greatly improved flow at my games and ensured even the quietest, most deliberate thinkers at my table get a chance. Moreover, if my 10-11 year olds at the Gaming Club can do it, any group can!
Yeah, I am totally in your same boat. I am a relative newcomer to the RL group I play in, and am feeling like I'm not much more than an extra combat dummy. As soon as there's a piece of loot or a puzzle object, someone else says, "I grab the whatsis." As soon as there's a choice of directions to go, someone else says, "I'm going down the north corridor" and I have to either follow or split the party. As soon as there's a problem to solve, everyone is blurting out their solution. Once I even was the first to say something, and one of the long-time players just ignored me and went on with his solution to the problem, after which the DM turned to me and said, "Okay, and you said you were transforming?" At which point there was no longer any need for my solution. It doesn't help that I am playing a druid, and one of the other players is a firbolg paladin who can speak with animals at will and has better heals than me, and the party bard provides redundancy for almost every druid skill the Paladin doesn't have.
I am having to learn to be quicker and more insistent and pushier and louder, if I want to be anything more than a second-rate battle stooge.
Edeleth Treesong (Aldalire) Wood Elf Druid lvl 8 Talaveroth Sub 2
Last Tree Standing Tabaxi Ranger, Chef and Hoardsperson lvl 5, Company of the Dragon Team 1
Choir Kenku Cleric, Tempest Domain, lvl 11, Descent Into Avernus Test Drive
Poinki Goblin Paladin, Redemption, lvl 5, Tales from Talaveroth
Lyrika Nyx Satyr Bard lvl 1, The Six Kingdoms of Talia
Again, the issue is how table etiquette is run and how actions are adjudicated. Players should not think in terms of "My PC does X." but instead "My PC wishes to do X." This game requires a Player to roll for to determine an outcome, stating that you for instance "hit" the Giant before rolling is technically bad form. Moreover, the DM needs to learn to shush those players that are constantly blurting out or outbursting at the table. This is a cooperative game, and everyone needs to be part of the team to "win" as it were.
To curb overzealousness and ensure everyone at the table gets a reasonable say in what happens, restructure the group's table talk to reflect intention and not action. It will help. Promise!
Hate to advise adversarial interpersonal tactics at the table, but the Firbolg can only talk to small animals of limited intelligence and his ability does not make them either smarter or even good communicators. A spell does a better job when cast than a racial ribbon ability. Remind the DM of this. Next, the Paladin does have a potent pool of healing, Lay on Hands, but they should be reserving their limited amount of precious spell slots for Smiting! Even then, as a Druid in 5e, healing in combat is just not your thing. You cannot keep ahead of the damage curve with your spells; no class can because of the way 5e is designed. The most successful Druids in games I run and have seen are a combination of Skirmisher (taking advantage of Wildshape HPs) and Controllers because a number of their spells like the lower level Spike Growth can shape the battlefield tremendously. Healing is a Tertiary or Quaternary aspect of the character. In the make up you mentioned, I would shove the party buff/healing role on to the full spell caster Bard. And yes, the Bard is second only to the Rogue as a skill monkey, competing with them over skill proficiency is a bad idea. That said a Druid can literally outstealth a rogue. Trying to sneak past a city guard in a dungeon to reach a prisoner? No one will bat an eye at a rat. Aside from that talk with the player of the Bard and the DM and see where proficiencies can be shifted so that your PC has more place to shine. Perhaps the Bard should take Arcana, History or Religion, instead of Nature or Survival allowing your PC to fill that role for the group.
A further point on the firbolg - they can talk to animals and basically have advantage to make themselves understood. Animals still can't talk back, so there's no shaking down the squirrel to use as an informant. For that they need the spell speak with animals - which paladins don't get. But druids do (and bards and rangers).
The Firbolg's "Speech of Beast and Leaf" says "You have the ability to communicate in a limited manner with beasts and plants. They can understand the meaning of your words, though you have no special ability to understand them in return. You have advantage on all Charisma checks you make to influence them."
Oh, and to the OP, maybe discuss with your DM and come up with a small hand signal to indicate "I have something I want to say but I need a minute to put my thoughts together" that the DM can watch for and say, "OK, frostfox, you have something? What are you doing?"
I think there is some good advice above and to add to Maestrino's statement, I also recommend talking to the DM but instead of raising your hand, just develop a signal like stacking your dice and see if that gives the DM the opening to say, "Hey, what do you want to do?"
If you have an idea, try raising your hand. Sounds elementary school, but even with adults it works.
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Have this happen now and then with my group. They know to put their hand up when they want to get something in when things get crazy. As DM when I see that hand go up I acknowledge the player and let the conversation finish then I take over and recognise the player who had their hand up to speak and no one interrupts.
So yes. Speak with the DM on having better control over the table. It's nothing bad and everyone should have a place to speak.
Just give people a heads up you have something planned: "Once you've finished healing that guy, I have something I'd like to do."
If the other players have good etiquette they should then pause to allow you to act next. If they don't, it's time to talk with them outside of game time so they know how you feel.
Just sounds like you need to be a bit more assertive when there is something you want to do. Jumping in and saying something along the lines of "Hey, I can help with that" to give you a bit more time to maybe form a sentence for whatever you wanted to do.
I too would recommend talking to your DM and see if they can help. In my group there is a player who is quieter and doesn't speak out. We're a new group but we all know each other outside of gaming. I try to watch how much I say so I don't talk over the person but sometimes it can be hard (we're playing VTT). But our DM does go out of his way to say, ""X player" what are you going to do?" or something like that because he knows there are a few more boisterous personalities in the group and wants to make sure that person has their time to shine.
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It may feel ridiculous, but if you have something you want to do before anyone else, try raising your hand, or saying like "oh, I have something for this!" You can get that out, then everyone knows to put a hold on whatever they were gonna say and give you time to describe your actions at your own speed.
True, but that only works irl. I mostly play online, which doesn't really allow for that luxury and makes the whole affair even more difficult, since like this the others can't even really see that I was trying to talk, which otherwise might have caused at least one or two to pay attention to me.
Anyways, it took me quiet a bit of time to come back to this and as I can see, there were quiet a few other people with a similair poblem like me, so I'm glad if this might have helped one or two of you to deal with your own hardships. As for me, I think I figured out a way to deal my situation, so I should be fine.
But I just wanted to pop in real quick anyway, since I wanted to thank all of you for your answers and helping me. I really appreciate it. You guys are awesome^^
Its something that i noticed but in the spur of the moment, people tend to speak fast and tries to act quick, like they are on a timer or something, and they're afraid that if they don't go fast enough the DM will do something, even though the action can be suspended for has long as it takes.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)