I mean, that's what we call nuance, right? Remember, that these characters can't see their character sheets. They don't know that they're Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil. There are plenty of reasons for a person to find a religion compelling that might not be "I have a compatible ethical philosophy". Maybe your character has a different interpretation of those god's behaviour that allows them to reconcile their own beliefs with the god's perceived beliefs.
This works from the mortal end of things -- characters can't see character sheets, and anyone can attempt to worship a god (pray to it, ask for intervention, what have you).
From the immortal end of things it is a different story. For all intents and purposes a true deity would be able to read the alignment section of your character sheet (along with all the other sections) because a god usually has some divine knowledge (otherwise it's not a god). So although other mortals might not know that your character is chaotic neutral, Zeus darn will would have a good idea of it. And there is nothing saying he'll answer the prayers of someone who is not in line with his alignment, or the alignment that he wants his worshipers to be.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
like could my CN character worship a NG god? or a LE character worship a LG god? l ask cause l have a CN character worshiping (or at least have them listed under the faith part of the character sheet) a NG goddess and a N god (l asume you can follow more then one deity at once)
(ps the character in question is a wizard worshiping Mystra, goddess of magic & Oghma, god of knowledge)
I don't see a problem in this... but I think to make it reasonable you have a disadvantage when it comes to praying to your deity for help
Having said that, I believe that a lot of settings are harmed by Gods with specific alignments. Clergy should be all alignments and get their spells all the same - in most campaign settings.
It adds a lot of role-play potential to have your cleric in a political / theological fight with a person of the same church who is a scumbag.
I mean, that's what we call nuance, right? Remember, that these characters can't see their character sheets. They don't know that they're Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil. There are plenty of reasons for a person to find a religion compelling that might not be "I have a compatible ethical philosophy". Maybe your character has a different interpretation of those god's behaviour that allows them to reconcile their own beliefs with the god's perceived beliefs.
This works from the mortal end of things -- characters can't see character sheets, and anyone can attempt to worship a god (pray to it, ask for intervention, what have you).
From the immortal end of things it is a different story. For all intents and purposes a true deity would be able to read the alignment section of your character sheet (along with all the other sections) because a god usually has some divine knowledge (otherwise it's not a god). So although other mortals might not know that your character is chaotic neutral, Zeus darn will would have a good idea of it. And there is nothing saying he'll answer the prayers of someone who is not in line with his alignment, or the alignment that he wants his worshipers to be.
There is nothing to say that a god will answer the prayers of someone who is in line with his alignment or the alignment that he wants his worshipers to be. Gods are notoriously fickle and generally above the petty concerns of mortals. While a god might be really concerned with alignment, I think it is bad design for a GM to be like "that god doesn't care about you because he is CG and you are LN" and not at all concerned with your deeds or what you bring to his worship. It would be a bit like the god being like "You have 49 HP, I only accept followers with 50 HP."
How do we know that the alignment listed in the pantheons is the god's alignment and not the general alignment of their clergy and followers? How do we know that the gods have alignments at all? Maybe alignments, as we understand them, are a characteristic only of living creatures and when you get that high up into divinity, earthly ethics have less sway or relevance.
Uh well, regarding how we know alignments of gods, I would say that is up to the DM. If the DM says that the alignment in the book for Aphrodite is her clergy's, then it's theirs. If the DM says it's Aphrodite's, then it's hers.
While a god might be really concerned with alignment, I think it is bad design for a GM to be like "that god doesn't care about you because he is CG and you are LN"
I guess that would depend on the universe. And some of it would certainly depend on RP.
But if I am a DM, and a player is asking me, while designing, say, a cleric, if he has to be the same alignment as the god he's worshiping, I'd say no, as long as you have one of the two and the other is not oppositional. That's a house rule we used to use in our game, and I like it, so as a DM, if I ever actually DM again, I'll probably use it.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Uh well, regarding how we know alignments of gods, I would say that is up to the DM. If the DM says that the alignment in the book for Aphrodite is her clergy's, then it's theirs. If the DM says it's Aphrodite's, then it's hers.
While a god might be really concerned with alignment, I think it is bad design for a GM to be like "that god doesn't care about you because he is CG and you are LN"
I guess that would depend on the universe. And some of it would certainly depend on RP.
But if I am a DM, and a player is asking me, while designing, say, a cleric, if he has to be the same alignment as the god he's worshiping, I'd say no, as long as you have one of the two and the other is not oppositional. That's a house rule we used to use in our game, and I like it, so as a DM, if I ever actually DM again, I'll probably use it.
Yes, it's up to the GM. That's not a defence for what can be. Yes, if the GM restricts something, it's restricted and if they allow something then it's allowed. The setting and lore are really more suggestions though, rather than hard facts. The GM can decide that alignments are hard-locked, or employ a very reasonable rule like you have suggested. However, they could say that a cleric could have a completely opposed alignment. The thread was started by a guy wanting to know if it was possible though, so I think it's more useful to say in these cases "Yes, that's possible in D&D" even if that is followed up with a "but..."
As a GM, if a player came to me with a solid character idea and was like "I want to do this character concept", for example, a heretical priest of a god, I would jump at the opportunity. If I have to stop and think "how would that even work?" Then it is probably a good concept to explore. There is probably a lot of interesting ideas that we can dig up as a group. We don't see heretics very often in D&D, especially not ones who aren't secretly plotting to undermine the god they are supposedly heretics for. When your players hand you some challenging character concept? That's a gift. By just thinking about how that character can exist in the world, you are developing so much story content that will be new and fresh to your players-- who have already told you in advance that they are interested in it.
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This works from the mortal end of things -- characters can't see character sheets, and anyone can attempt to worship a god (pray to it, ask for intervention, what have you).
From the immortal end of things it is a different story. For all intents and purposes a true deity would be able to read the alignment section of your character sheet (along with all the other sections) because a god usually has some divine knowledge (otherwise it's not a god). So although other mortals might not know that your character is chaotic neutral, Zeus darn will would have a good idea of it. And there is nothing saying he'll answer the prayers of someone who is not in line with his alignment, or the alignment that he wants his worshipers to be.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I don't see a problem in this... but I think to make it reasonable you have a disadvantage when it comes to praying to your deity for help
It is a DM's call.
Having said that, I believe that a lot of settings are harmed by Gods with specific alignments. Clergy should be all alignments and get their spells all the same - in most campaign settings.
It adds a lot of role-play potential to have your cleric in a political / theological fight with a person of the same church who is a scumbag.
There is nothing to say that a god will answer the prayers of someone who is in line with his alignment or the alignment that he wants his worshipers to be. Gods are notoriously fickle and generally above the petty concerns of mortals. While a god might be really concerned with alignment, I think it is bad design for a GM to be like "that god doesn't care about you because he is CG and you are LN" and not at all concerned with your deeds or what you bring to his worship. It would be a bit like the god being like "You have 49 HP, I only accept followers with 50 HP."
How do we know that the alignment listed in the pantheons is the god's alignment and not the general alignment of their clergy and followers? How do we know that the gods have alignments at all? Maybe alignments, as we understand them, are a characteristic only of living creatures and when you get that high up into divinity, earthly ethics have less sway or relevance.
Uh well, regarding how we know alignments of gods, I would say that is up to the DM. If the DM says that the alignment in the book for Aphrodite is her clergy's, then it's theirs. If the DM says it's Aphrodite's, then it's hers.
I guess that would depend on the universe. And some of it would certainly depend on RP.
But if I am a DM, and a player is asking me, while designing, say, a cleric, if he has to be the same alignment as the god he's worshiping, I'd say no, as long as you have one of the two and the other is not oppositional. That's a house rule we used to use in our game, and I like it, so as a DM, if I ever actually DM again, I'll probably use it.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I would say no to good worship of evil and vice versa. And no too chaotic and lawful.
Yes, it's up to the GM. That's not a defence for what can be. Yes, if the GM restricts something, it's restricted and if they allow something then it's allowed. The setting and lore are really more suggestions though, rather than hard facts. The GM can decide that alignments are hard-locked, or employ a very reasonable rule like you have suggested. However, they could say that a cleric could have a completely opposed alignment. The thread was started by a guy wanting to know if it was possible though, so I think it's more useful to say in these cases "Yes, that's possible in D&D" even if that is followed up with a "but..."
As a GM, if a player came to me with a solid character idea and was like "I want to do this character concept", for example, a heretical priest of a god, I would jump at the opportunity. If I have to stop and think "how would that even work?" Then it is probably a good concept to explore. There is probably a lot of interesting ideas that we can dig up as a group. We don't see heretics very often in D&D, especially not ones who aren't secretly plotting to undermine the god they are supposedly heretics for. When your players hand you some challenging character concept? That's a gift. By just thinking about how that character can exist in the world, you are developing so much story content that will be new and fresh to your players-- who have already told you in advance that they are interested in it.