I think that the idea was to make an attack action to shoot with the longbow, and then use the echo to make an additional melee attack. Means sending the echo away, and IIRC there's a limited range for that. Alternatively, echo can slap people who approach whilst you shoot the people in the distance.
Yeah, I understood that the commenter wanted to make 1 ranged attack via longbow and 1 melee attack from the Echo's position. What I don't understand is how that is of any benefit 90% of the time if all the one-handed weapons do, at most, the same damage as the longbow. Probably less, on average, if you've put your stat points mostly into DEX for an archery build since you're more likely to hit with your arrows than with a melee weapon.
A fighter would normally have 2 attacks when they attack. If they have an echo going, they get those 2 attacks, plus an extra attack from the echo.
I've built a bugbear pugilist build on artificer/echo knight which uses thunder gauntlets and dual wielding feats/styles to get 2 attacks, bonus action offhand attack, and echo attack. and then action surge for 2 more attacks and another echo attack (each time you make the attack action, after all, not limited to once per turn) for 7 attacks in a turn. You could feasibly do similar with archery/echo combo, to go 4 longbow attacks and then 2 melee attacks with a finesse weapon on a turn where you action surge, and you'll still be out of their reach!
I think that the idea was to make an attack action to shoot with the longbow, and then use the echo to make an additional melee attack. Means sending the echo away, and IIRC there's a limited range for that. Alternatively, echo can slap people who approach whilst you shoot the people in the distance.
Yeah, I understood that the commenter wanted to make 1 ranged attack via longbow and 1 melee attack from the Echo's position. What I don't understand is how that is of any benefit 90% of the time if all the one-handed weapons do, at most, the same damage as the longbow. Probably less, on average, if you've put your stat points mostly into DEX for an archery build since you're more likely to hit with your arrows than with a melee weapon.
He's talking about the Unleash Incarnation feature of the Echo Knight, which allows you to make an extra (as in, over and above whatever The Attack Action allows you) attack from the Echo's position when you take The Attack Action, a number of times equal to your Con modifier per long rest.
The answer is that yes, the Echo can make a melee attack if you attack with a longbow. Caveats: the Echo can only exist more than thirty feet from you during your turn (if it's more than 30 feet away at the end of your turn it disapoofs) and as stated the Echo is generally considered tp be holdsing what you're holding. It's DM interpretation whether the Echo can switch to one of your other weapons to make an Unleash Incarnation attack. I'd generally allow it since Unleash Incarnation is a prominent subclass feature and archer Echo Knights already kinda get shafted on using it properly, but I'm not your DM so who cares about my opinion.
Yeah, I understood that the commenter wanted to make 1 ranged attack via longbow and 1 melee attack from the Echo's position. What I don't understand is how that is of any benefit 90% of the time if all the one-handed weapons do, at most, the same damage as the longbow. Probably less, on average, if you've put your stat points mostly into DEX for an archery build since you're more likely to hit with your arrows than with a melee weapon.
He's talking about the Unleash Incarnation feature of the Echo Knight, which allows you to make an extra (as in, over and above whatever The Attack Action allows you) attack from the Echo's position when you take The Attack Action, a number of times equal to your Con modifier per long rest.
The answer is that yes, the Echo can make a melee attack if you attack with a longbow. Caveats: the Echo can only exist more than thirty feet from you during your turn (if it's more than 30 feet away at the end of your turn it disapoofs) and as stated the Echo is generally considered tp be holdsing what you're holding. It's DM interpretation whether the Echo can switch to one of your other weapons to make an Unleash Incarnation attack. I'd generally allow it since Unleash Incarnation is a prominent subclass feature and archer Echo Knights already kinda get shafted on using it properly, but I'm not your DM so who cares about my opinion.
Which is why it makes little sense to specialize in Longbow combat if you really want to take advantage of Unleash Incarnation. Switching from a two-handed ranged weapon to a one-handed melee weapon is possible, but it's an inefficient use of an Archery build. It's more of a last resort thing to finish off the fleeing enemy or to down a foe on their last legs. It's more like a desperate maneuver than a "OOh, Echo Knight so swole" kind of a move.
The idea of an archer who can shoot from multiple positions at once and teleport at will is just so freaking cool. I can’t wait to play an urban ranger/vigilante style Shadar Kai character with this concept. The guerrilla warfare style tactics you could employ... I guess I’ll have to be careful to avoid a full-on Ed Jlorde character...But yeah, fanboi ravings over. Not a CR fan (just never could get into it), but damn, Wildemount has some cool stuff!
edit: fixing the mistake Naresea pointed out :)
Its been over 2 years so don't know if you ever did this... but to give you a Movie conceptualization of this:
An Echo Knight Archer, maybe with some gloomstalker in him, plays a lot like.... "Predator" the predator. camoflauging in the trees, shooting its force cannon from multiple spots as it encircles the "prey" despite being a lone hunter.
So my recent post was about a one shot I was gonna play in. I was gonna be a level 6 echo knight fighter and we already had a couple frontline fighters and other things. I though that it would be cool to take advantage of the 2 attacks I get as a fighter 5/6 at a short range with a long bow and use unleash incarnation with my echo being in melee of said enemies making it a 3 hit turn and up to a six hit turn with Action Surge. But seems like there is a healthy amount of debat on rather that works cause of the wording of Unleashed Incarnation. even though it says attack action, I suppose the “additional melee attack” is the limiting factor with the ability cause it assumes you are in melee and not range…..good food for thought though for the creators to better word things and have a bit less confusion on the subject. Would be a fun build though if your DM allows it!
Yeah, I understood that the commenter wanted to make 1 ranged attack via longbow and 1 melee attack from the Echo's position. What I don't understand is how that is of any benefit 90% of the time if all the one-handed weapons do, at most, the same damage as the longbow. Probably less, on average, if you've put your stat points mostly into DEX for an archery build since you're more likely to hit with your arrows than with a melee weapon.
The advantage is extra attacks, isn't it?
A fighter would normally have 2 attacks when they attack. If they have an echo going, they get those 2 attacks, plus an extra attack from the echo.
I've built a bugbear pugilist build on artificer/echo knight which uses thunder gauntlets and dual wielding feats/styles to get 2 attacks, bonus action offhand attack, and echo attack. and then action surge for 2 more attacks and another echo attack (each time you make the attack action, after all, not limited to once per turn) for 7 attacks in a turn. You could feasibly do similar with archery/echo combo, to go 4 longbow attacks and then 2 melee attacks with a finesse weapon on a turn where you action surge, and you'll still be out of their reach!
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The echo is not a creature and therefore does not count for flanking.
Also it doesn’t routinely get an extra attack every round. Unleash incarnation is something like Con bonus times per long rest.
He's talking about the Unleash Incarnation feature of the Echo Knight, which allows you to make an extra (as in, over and above whatever The Attack Action allows you) attack from the Echo's position when you take The Attack Action, a number of times equal to your Con modifier per long rest.
The answer is that yes, the Echo can make a melee attack if you attack with a longbow. Caveats: the Echo can only exist more than thirty feet from you during your turn (if it's more than 30 feet away at the end of your turn it disapoofs) and as stated the Echo is generally considered tp be holdsing what you're holding. It's DM interpretation whether the Echo can switch to one of your other weapons to make an Unleash Incarnation attack. I'd generally allow it since Unleash Incarnation is a prominent subclass feature and archer Echo Knights already kinda get shafted on using it properly, but I'm not your DM so who cares about my opinion.
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Which is why it makes little sense to specialize in Longbow combat if you really want to take advantage of Unleash Incarnation. Switching from a two-handed ranged weapon to a one-handed melee weapon is possible, but it's an inefficient use of an Archery build. It's more of a last resort thing to finish off the fleeing enemy or to down a foe on their last legs. It's more like a desperate maneuver than a "OOh, Echo Knight so swole" kind of a move.
Its been over 2 years so don't know if you ever did this... but to give you a Movie conceptualization of this:
An Echo Knight Archer, maybe with some gloomstalker in him, plays a lot like.... "Predator" the predator. camoflauging in the trees, shooting its force cannon from multiple spots as it encircles the "prey" despite being a lone hunter.
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So my recent post was about a one shot I was gonna play in. I was gonna be a level 6 echo knight fighter and we already had a couple frontline fighters and other things. I though that it would be cool to take advantage of the 2 attacks I get as a fighter 5/6 at a short range with a long bow and use unleash incarnation with my echo being in melee of said enemies making it a 3 hit turn and up to a six hit turn with Action Surge. But seems like there is a healthy amount of debat on rather that works cause of the wording of Unleashed Incarnation. even though it says attack action, I suppose the “additional melee attack” is the limiting factor with the ability cause it assumes you are in melee and not range…..good food for thought though for the creators to better word things and have a bit less confusion on the subject. Would be a fun build though if your DM allows it!
😁