Yes... this seems like the whole steel dragon thing is just a gimmick to be used to "wow" his friends when the character dies. I almost picture him salivating at every damage roll to his character hoping THIS will be the night when he can blow everyone's mind by them finding out this character who seemed completely normal all along turns out to be an ubermonster who has just been faking mortality all along.
This is the RPG equivalent of a, hrm, well, there is no polite way to say this, a "buttocks pull", I guess.... The phenomenon in which a writer just pulls some new thing that has no foreshadowing and nothing to do with the story up to this point, out of his or her buttocks. The thing about "buttocks pulls" is, nobody but the writer tends to like them.
The way to do this right is with setup and foreboding, and maybe even a plan with the DM for the death of the character and then some story elements to go along with it. This would satisfy the other players and make them feel like they could have guessed all along, if only they had put the clues together and whatnot.
But just jumping up as a steel dragon after dying as a mortal with no clues to anyone about this possibly being able to happen, and saying, 'Ta-Da!' is poor storytelling, and I suspect it is not going to have the intended effect on the other players, which is to make them think it is cool and shocking and make them wish they had thought of it. They won't. They're going to just roll their eyes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Yes... this seems like the whole steel dragon thing is just a gimmick to be used to "wow" his friends when the character dies. I almost picture him salivating at every damage roll to his character hoping THIS will be the night when he can blow everyone's mind by them finding out this character who seemed completely normal all along turns out to be an ubermonster who has just been faking mortality all along.
This is the RPG equivalent of a, hrm, well, there is no polite way to say this, a "buttocks pull", I guess.... The phenomenon in which a writer just pulls some new thing that has no foreshadowing and nothing to do with the story up to this point, out of his or her buttocks. The thing about "buttocks pulls" is, nobody but the writer tends to like them.
The way to do this right is with setup and foreboding, and maybe even a plan with the DM for the death of the character and then some story elements to go along with it. This would satisfy the other players and make them feel like they could have guessed all along, if only they had put the clues together and whatnot.
But just jumping up as a steel dragon after dying as a mortal with no clues to anyone about this possibly being able to happen, and saying, 'Ta-Da!' is poor storytelling, and I suspect it is not going to have the intended effect on the other players, which is to make them think it is cool and shocking and make them wish they had thought of it. They won't. They're going to just roll their eyes.
Not sure how this thread devolved into commentary on the charecter validity but ok, there is plenty of hinting and peppering being done in the game by the dm to let on about him being a dragon. were not just hiding it to hide it. But as im playing the bard and the dragon is for rp pourposes he doesent come into play untill thjose moments so in essence he doesent exist untill then. either way this is so off topic from what the original question was lol
Not sure how this thread devolved into commentary on the charecter validity but ok, there is plenty of hinting and peppering being done in the game by the dm to let on about him being a dragon. were not just hiding it to hide it. But as im playing the bard and the dragon is for rp pourposes he doesent come into play untill thjose moments so in essence he doesent exist untill then. either way this is so off topic from what the original question was lol
It didn't really devolve into anything since there wasn't anything to actually start with. It sounds like the DM allowed you to import your home-brew into his game. Given the intricacies of the steel dragon lore you're relying on, you should be appreciative of that. Let's also note your concept conflicts with other steel dragon lore. While the video was a wild ride, it didn't reflect the steel dragon concept I found written down in the first few Google hits of prominent open source game resources. Most DMs aren't going to watch a 25 minute video for the sake of one character concept, but will read a page to see if the concept is worth importing into their game. So that miscommunication at the point of character generation may be a big source of your conflict with the DM there. The solution here is to talk it out with your DM, get an understanding of what he thinks a steel dragon is, express your expectations of what a steel dragon is and see what you can work out. Since being a steel dragon is arguably immaterial to the existence of the true polymorph, worse thing that can happen is you continue playing your Bard and ditch the complicated back story that seems to only pay off with a death that may not actually happen in game.
If your portrayal of the bard is problematic to the DM, you may just be playing in an inconsistent way which is chafing the tone the DM is trying to set. Again, a dungeons and dragons isn't about you v the DM or even you and the DM, it's an ensemble work, so how's the rest of the party doing? Is there tension between the party and the DM? Is there tension between you and the party? There's not a lot to go on, but it sounds like the DM thinks your character isn't playing to expectations he developed when you first presented the idea. What I don't think you're going to find in this thread is anyone saying "yeah, you're right, your DM is out of line."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Note also this is something other than even a true polymorph. With true polymorph, both physical and mental stats change to those of the new form, but alignment and personality are kept. It isn't the kind of absolute full submersion that the OP seems to be talking about.
Yeah, the lore video (yes, I watched the whole thing with my kids, so at least this thread got some imagination stimulation in the small ones) isn't actually clear how divorced the dragon's consciousness and moral thinking is from the "life" it is living. It's actually fairly muddy, very enthusiastic, but still muddy and any DM would want to see some more substantial documentation as to how it would literally play out.
But, again, I don't think the concept is necessarily something that can't be entertained in someone's home-brew, though the only thing tangible from how it's working out seems to be confusion over the expectations as to how the steel dragon would play within the morality of the game or weight given alignment.
If the dragon was really completely submerged in favour of the new form, though, then there wouldn't be things like hints that said character is actually a dragon.
Unless the dragon was specifically looking for someone to soulbond to or whatever it was. That one individual that the Steel Dragon will confide in that it is in fact a Dragon, and will later ask to disperse it's hoard of knowledge-treasures.
If the dragon was really completely submerged in favour of the new form, though, then there wouldn't be things like hints that said character is actually a dragon.
Unless the dragon was specifically looking for someone to soulbond to or whatever it was. That one individual that the Steel Dragon will confide in that it is in fact a Dragon, and will later ask to disperse it's hoard of knowledge-treasures.
In that case though the Dragon would really just be along for the ride and the volunteer would still have their knowledge of the gestalt. It is hard to believe anyone willingly accepting the deal otherwise, unless they were essentially suicidal. "Hi, I want to take over your body and override your existence for a while. You are fine with that, right?"
Oh the soul bond thing, per the lore video, _isn't_ someone the steel dragon "inhabits." The human lives a steel dragon leads are from what I could tell in the video incarnations without a "host". The soul bond is a being with a exceedingly greater lifespan than a human (like an elf) who knows the steel dragon over its various lives, as a sort of continuity ... a sort of "best friend" and confidante ... and no, I didn't seek clarification how a "continuity" friend who knows the steel dragon truth functions when the dragon is in its dissociative/oblivious mode. Again, plenty of other lore contradicts the video, so none of this is gospel.
I agree the steel dragon "nature" is likely being used as a way to try to bring the character more in line with social norm. The "true neutral" deep alignment being disregarded for whatever (in this case presumably chaotic) alignment of the steel dragon's present manifestation is a different interpretation of a steel dragon than what the DM may be presuming where steel dragons are more in line with silver dragons (lawful good or lawful neutral). It sounds like the performance of the alignment is contrary to the DMs expectations, but again what do we know? These sorts of conflicts are best sorted out between the DM and player and whatever ammunition the player was looking for in this thread just isn't available to him since it's unclear what the problem is other than differing expectations as to how the role's alignment, or alignments, are supposed to play out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Yes... this seems like the whole steel dragon thing is just a gimmick to be used to "wow" his friends when the character dies. I almost picture him salivating at every damage roll to his character hoping THIS will be the night when he can blow everyone's mind by them finding out this character who seemed completely normal all along turns out to be an ubermonster who has just been faking mortality all along.
This is the RPG equivalent of a, hrm, well, there is no polite way to say this, a "buttocks pull", I guess.... The phenomenon in which a writer just pulls some new thing that has no foreshadowing and nothing to do with the story up to this point, out of his or her buttocks. The thing about "buttocks pulls" is, nobody but the writer tends to like them.
The way to do this right is with setup and foreboding, and maybe even a plan with the DM for the death of the character and then some story elements to go along with it. This would satisfy the other players and make them feel like they could have guessed all along, if only they had put the clues together and whatnot.
But just jumping up as a steel dragon after dying as a mortal with no clues to anyone about this possibly being able to happen, and saying, 'Ta-Da!' is poor storytelling, and I suspect it is not going to have the intended effect on the other players, which is to make them think it is cool and shocking and make them wish they had thought of it. They won't. They're going to just roll their eyes.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Not sure how this thread devolved into commentary on the charecter validity but ok, there is plenty of hinting and peppering being done in the game by the dm to let on about him being a dragon. were not just hiding it to hide it. But as im playing the bard and the dragon is for rp pourposes he doesent come into play untill thjose moments so in essence he doesent exist untill then. either way this is so off topic from what the original question was lol
It didn't really devolve into anything since there wasn't anything to actually start with. It sounds like the DM allowed you to import your home-brew into his game. Given the intricacies of the steel dragon lore you're relying on, you should be appreciative of that. Let's also note your concept conflicts with other steel dragon lore. While the video was a wild ride, it didn't reflect the steel dragon concept I found written down in the first few Google hits of prominent open source game resources. Most DMs aren't going to watch a 25 minute video for the sake of one character concept, but will read a page to see if the concept is worth importing into their game. So that miscommunication at the point of character generation may be a big source of your conflict with the DM there. The solution here is to talk it out with your DM, get an understanding of what he thinks a steel dragon is, express your expectations of what a steel dragon is and see what you can work out. Since being a steel dragon is arguably immaterial to the existence of the true polymorph, worse thing that can happen is you continue playing your Bard and ditch the complicated back story that seems to only pay off with a death that may not actually happen in game.
If your portrayal of the bard is problematic to the DM, you may just be playing in an inconsistent way which is chafing the tone the DM is trying to set. Again, a dungeons and dragons isn't about you v the DM or even you and the DM, it's an ensemble work, so how's the rest of the party doing? Is there tension between the party and the DM? Is there tension between you and the party? There's not a lot to go on, but it sounds like the DM thinks your character isn't playing to expectations he developed when you first presented the idea. What I don't think you're going to find in this thread is anyone saying "yeah, you're right, your DM is out of line."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Still waiting for the actual racial rules you're using to play the character, btw.
Yeah, the lore video (yes, I watched the whole thing with my kids, so at least this thread got some imagination stimulation in the small ones) isn't actually clear how divorced the dragon's consciousness and moral thinking is from the "life" it is living. It's actually fairly muddy, very enthusiastic, but still muddy and any DM would want to see some more substantial documentation as to how it would literally play out.
But, again, I don't think the concept is necessarily something that can't be entertained in someone's home-brew, though the only thing tangible from how it's working out seems to be confusion over the expectations as to how the steel dragon would play within the morality of the game or weight given alignment.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Unless the dragon was specifically looking for someone to soulbond to or whatever it was. That one individual that the Steel Dragon will confide in that it is in fact a Dragon, and will later ask to disperse it's hoard of knowledge-treasures.
Oh the soul bond thing, per the lore video, _isn't_ someone the steel dragon "inhabits." The human lives a steel dragon leads are from what I could tell in the video incarnations without a "host". The soul bond is a being with a exceedingly greater lifespan than a human (like an elf) who knows the steel dragon over its various lives, as a sort of continuity ... a sort of "best friend" and confidante ... and no, I didn't seek clarification how a "continuity" friend who knows the steel dragon truth functions when the dragon is in its dissociative/oblivious mode. Again, plenty of other lore contradicts the video, so none of this is gospel.
I agree the steel dragon "nature" is likely being used as a way to try to bring the character more in line with social norm. The "true neutral" deep alignment being disregarded for whatever (in this case presumably chaotic) alignment of the steel dragon's present manifestation is a different interpretation of a steel dragon than what the DM may be presuming where steel dragons are more in line with silver dragons (lawful good or lawful neutral). It sounds like the performance of the alignment is contrary to the DMs expectations, but again what do we know? These sorts of conflicts are best sorted out between the DM and player and whatever ammunition the player was looking for in this thread just isn't available to him since it's unclear what the problem is other than differing expectations as to how the role's alignment, or alignments, are supposed to play out.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.