I was scrolling through demon info and I had this idea. What if a group of players tried to conquer a layer of the abyss. Maybe try and build a fortress there. I like the idea, but still have no idea for any suggestions for what layer. There’s so many but only a few are hospitable. does anyone have any suggestions?
Possible but hard, the Abyss is filled with an infinite amount of combatants of varying degrees of strength that would want to kill you and consume your souls. The task gets exceedingly more difficult if you are attempting to take over a layer that already has a demon lord. Layers can be anywhere between the size of a continent to the size of a planet, and the entire space is the lair of a dominant demon lord who will be directing all of the demons that serve it at you like an RTS player. If you were able to somehow overcome said demon lord then you might have to fight off balors and other greater demons looking to become the new king of the hill.
If no demon lord is present, it would be a matter of destroying whatever preexisting factions are vying for supremacy on the layer and becoming the dominant power, which is vastly easier than fighting off the concentrated forces and reality-warping power of a demon lord but still no small feat.
And even if you are successful you'll end up becoming something akin to demons in the end...
Demons are not particularly good at seeing through illusions or shape changes.
In my opinion, the easiest way to take overa Layer of the Abyss is to kill a demon lord and then impersonate him.
Even then, it would be high risk.
I like this idea but, I feel only evil characters would be able do this as a demon lord would require evil acts on the part of his subjects. If you unconvincingly start ruling differently well, I don't think you could maintain control.
To me, the most reasonable idea is for the characters to occupy a layer of the abyss. Meaning, they have stronghold set up along with resources and personnel sufficient to be a dominant force on the layer. This is already more or less covered in a few adventures in concept.
I actually think it is easier for a Good character to mpersonate an evil one than the other way around.
You are surrounded by evil bastards, so when one does something evil, remember it and later kill him for that deed WITHOUT telling anyone why. Instead imply that he annoyed you.
In principle there are an infinite number of layers of the Abyss, so it's probable that at least one is unoccupied. I think it would be fun to craft a layer of the Abyss that seems innocuous at first. But there's always a catch. Perhaps there's a reason demons don't occupy the layer. Layer 570, home of the succubus queen, Malcanthet, was designed to appear outwardly beautiful, but toxic to the soul. Layer 628 was deliberately designed to appear like an easy grab for armies of good, only to corrupt them.
In the older D&D lore, the obyriths were the ur-demons. These are the weird Lovecraftian things that were present when the Abyss was first opened by Tharizdun. Over time, the younger tanar'ri demons started to multiply and displace the obyriths, especially after the death Mishka the Wolf-Spider and the defeat of the Queen of Chaos. Dagon is one of the last obyriths to rule a known layer of the Abyss (the 89th, called the Shadowsea), managing to maintain his power and form alliances with the younger demon lord Demogorgon. One could imagine some uber-powerful obyriths retreated deeper into the abyss after the fall, waiting for the chance to retake the outer layers. This could be what the players stumble upon.
Also, you'd want to work out why the players would want to do something like this. The Abyss is naturally inimical to life. More powerful beings than PCs have tried to "reclaim" layers of the Abyss only to go crazy, die, or turn evil (as with the case of Alusiel, a fallen archon who rules a city on layer 403).
Further, if the players aren't discreet about their intent, devils would surely be interested in a potential foothold in the Abyss.
Back in the old days, when a friend and I would run epic-level stuff and not worry so much about the dice, just spitball story ideas, I had a character who stole a layer of the Abyss. After the previous lord had been deposed, I sent all of my new demon minions to meet the oncoming armies of my new rivals. The instant my troops crossed the border, they defected of course, but that didn't matter. What mattered was that for just a few moments, there were no beings on that entire layer of the Abyss who were Chaotic Evil, it was my NG character and a few good NPCs.
Now one of the weird bits of flavor that they added in Planescape was that if the alignment of a plane's inhabitants was out of whack with the overall alignment of the plane, that physical piece of real estate would phase out of the one plane and towards another for which it was better suited. The big example they used was a chunk of Mt Celestia breaking off and realigning with Mechanus. So, same idea here. The only inhabitants of the plane were good. And while there weren't enough of us, and we weren't really good enough to get away home free, my DM decided that we popped like a zit into the howling chaos of Pandemonium and we made our escape from there, leaving Orcus or Grazzt or whoever picking their jaws up off the floor. I was always a little proud of that one.
I abandoned that Planescape idea in my own campaign. Nowadays I have the plane change the person's alignment rather than the other way around, but whichever way you do it, it's something to think about. As for which layer, just make something up. Take an inhospitable one you like and make a hospitable patch in it.
I was scrolling through demon info and I had this idea. What if a group of players tried to conquer a layer of the abyss. Maybe try and build a fortress there. I like the idea, but still have no idea for any suggestions for what layer. There’s so many but only a few are hospitable. does anyone have any suggestions?
Possible but hard, the Abyss is filled with an infinite amount of combatants of varying degrees of strength that would want to kill you and consume your souls. The task gets exceedingly more difficult if you are attempting to take over a layer that already has a demon lord. Layers can be anywhere between the size of a continent to the size of a planet, and the entire space is the lair of a dominant demon lord who will be directing all of the demons that serve it at you like an RTS player. If you were able to somehow overcome said demon lord then you might have to fight off balors and other greater demons looking to become the new king of the hill.
If no demon lord is present, it would be a matter of destroying whatever preexisting factions are vying for supremacy on the layer and becoming the dominant power, which is vastly easier than fighting off the concentrated forces and reality-warping power of a demon lord but still no small feat.
And even if you are successful you'll end up becoming something akin to demons in the end...
Demons are not particularly good at seeing through illusions or shape changes.
In my opinion, the easiest way to take overa Layer of the Abyss is to kill a demon lord and then impersonate him.
Even then, it would be high risk.
I like this idea but, I feel only evil characters would be able do this as a demon lord would require evil acts on the part of his subjects. If you unconvincingly start ruling differently well, I don't think you could maintain control.
To me, the most reasonable idea is for the characters to occupy a layer of the abyss. Meaning, they have stronghold set up along with resources and personnel sufficient to be a dominant force on the layer. This is already more or less covered in a few adventures in concept.
I actually think it is easier for a Good character to mpersonate an evil one than the other way around.
You are surrounded by evil bastards, so when one does something evil, remember it and later kill him for that deed WITHOUT telling anyone why. Instead imply that he annoyed you.
In principle there are an infinite number of layers of the Abyss, so it's probable that at least one is unoccupied. I think it would be fun to craft a layer of the Abyss that seems innocuous at first. But there's always a catch. Perhaps there's a reason demons don't occupy the layer. Layer 570, home of the succubus queen, Malcanthet, was designed to appear outwardly beautiful, but toxic to the soul. Layer 628 was deliberately designed to appear like an easy grab for armies of good, only to corrupt them.
In the older D&D lore, the obyriths were the ur-demons. These are the weird Lovecraftian things that were present when the Abyss was first opened by Tharizdun. Over time, the younger tanar'ri demons started to multiply and displace the obyriths, especially after the death Mishka the Wolf-Spider and the defeat of the Queen of Chaos. Dagon is one of the last obyriths to rule a known layer of the Abyss (the 89th, called the Shadowsea), managing to maintain his power and form alliances with the younger demon lord Demogorgon. One could imagine some uber-powerful obyriths retreated deeper into the abyss after the fall, waiting for the chance to retake the outer layers. This could be what the players stumble upon.
Also, you'd want to work out why the players would want to do something like this. The Abyss is naturally inimical to life. More powerful beings than PCs have tried to "reclaim" layers of the Abyss only to go crazy, die, or turn evil (as with the case of Alusiel, a fallen archon who rules a city on layer 403).
Further, if the players aren't discreet about their intent, devils would surely be interested in a potential foothold in the Abyss.
Back in the old days, when a friend and I would run epic-level stuff and not worry so much about the dice, just spitball story ideas, I had a character who stole a layer of the Abyss. After the previous lord had been deposed, I sent all of my new demon minions to meet the oncoming armies of my new rivals. The instant my troops crossed the border, they defected of course, but that didn't matter. What mattered was that for just a few moments, there were no beings on that entire layer of the Abyss who were Chaotic Evil, it was my NG character and a few good NPCs.
Now one of the weird bits of flavor that they added in Planescape was that if the alignment of a plane's inhabitants was out of whack with the overall alignment of the plane, that physical piece of real estate would phase out of the one plane and towards another for which it was better suited. The big example they used was a chunk of Mt Celestia breaking off and realigning with Mechanus. So, same idea here. The only inhabitants of the plane were good. And while there weren't enough of us, and we weren't really good enough to get away home free, my DM decided that we popped like a zit into the howling chaos of Pandemonium and we made our escape from there, leaving Orcus or Grazzt or whoever picking their jaws up off the floor. I was always a little proud of that one.
I abandoned that Planescape idea in my own campaign. Nowadays I have the plane change the person's alignment rather than the other way around, but whichever way you do it, it's something to think about. As for which layer, just make something up. Take an inhospitable one you like and make a hospitable patch in it.
That isn't true at all. Most high level demons have true sight, illusion magic is damn near useless against them.