For swords, "penetrating armor" means stabbing a weak spot, not hitting harder to cut through. That's something that only happens in anime. Defeating armor with force is what you do with a bludgeoning weapon like a mace.
In the real world, you need a mix of both strength and precision, with the optimum ratio varying based on what kind of weapon is being used and what type of armor it's being used against. As has been repeatedly pointed out, D&D's combat system is heavily simplified for ease of game purposes.
Yeah.
And why i think longswords should have the dex option is it is primarily precision/speed > brute force.
For swords, "penetrating armor" means stabbing a weak spot, not hitting harder to cut through. That's something that only happens in anime. Defeating armor with force is what you do with a bludgeoning weapon like a mace.
In the real world, you need a mix of both strength and precision, with the optimum ratio varying based on what kind of weapon is being used and what type of armor it's being used against. As has been repeatedly pointed out, D&D's combat system is heavily simplified for ease of game purposes.
Yeah.
And why i think longswords should have the dex option is it is primarily precision/speed > brute force.
And the reason that longswords don't is because dexterity is already an overly powerful ability score and does not need more piled on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
For swords, "penetrating armor" means stabbing a weak spot, not hitting harder to cut through. That's something that only happens in anime. Defeating armor with force is what you do with a bludgeoning weapon like a mace.
In the real world, you need a mix of both strength and precision, with the optimum ratio varying based on what kind of weapon is being used and what type of armor it's being used against. As has been repeatedly pointed out, D&D's combat system is heavily simplified for ease of game purposes.
Yeah.
And why i think longswords should have the dex option is it is primarily precision/speed > brute force.
And the reason that longswords don't is because dexterity is already an overly powerful ability score and does not need more piled on.
And it will be a better rapier. So why i suggested originally that the base dmg die for one handed could be reduced.
In terms of logic I can see where people are coming from in wanting longswords to perhaps be dex. In terms of game design however, I think it's better left as is, and just use a reapier or short sword. It seems to be a deliberate design choice that no two handed/versatile weapons have the finesse property, regardless of realism.
In terms of logic I can see where people are coming from in wanting longswords to perhaps be dex. In terms of game design however, I think it's better left as is, and just use a reapier or short sword. It seems to be a deliberate design choice that no two handed/versatile weapons have the finesse property, regardless of realism.
Exactly. It’s basically “spreadsheet” design. List the weapons, compare what has what damage die, then make some versatile, some light, some finesse. Just don’t double up too many check boxes and you are good.
I think that’s why longsword, battle axe, and war hammer are basically identical (except with war hammer being bludgeoning), not because they were basically interchangeable on the battlefield in real life, but more of giving the player the option of what their character looked like without one having advantage over the other. So they could have just made a “versatile melee d8/d10 weapon” and let the player decide what it looked like. But since this is D&D and each of those weapons is fairly iconic they gave them same stats.
Not sure if this has already been said, but if you are playing a monk level 2 or greater, long swords can be monk weapons which are DEX weapons, so your elf can have his cake and eat it too.
See Monk Weapons PHB. See Tasha's Cauldron of Everything Optional Monk feature Dedicated Weapon. It's official. It's legal if your DM allows these optional features. Enjoy!
Not sure if this has already been said, but if you are playing a monk level 2 or greater, long swords can be monk weapons which are DEX weapons, so your elf can have his cake and eat it too.
See Monk Weapons PHB. See Tasha's Cauldron of Everything Optional Monk feature Dedicated Weapon. It's official. It's legal if your DM allows these optional features. Enjoy!
Monks can use the 10lb great club as a dex based weapon perhaps showing that all weapons can be used this way. I don't see a special argument here for longswords.
What would be best is to allow an optional character creation ability for all races to choose one weapon from a limited selection and determine if they wanted to use STR or DEX for it. This could allow a Barbarian/fighter/Paladin to choose a longbow or crossbow as a strength weapon and a rogue or bard to use a longsword or battleax as a dexterity weapon. In the end, it doesn't really matter one way or the other damage-wise, let people play the character aesthetic they want. If they want their rogue using a longsword what is the big deal? If they use it two-handed it can deal 2 more damage, but they can't dual wield anymore.
The list should probably consist of Longbow, Shortbow, Light/Heavy Crossbows, Flail, Morning Star, versatile Martial weapons, and all simple weapons. Just give it as an optional character creation ability to all races and let them choose the Singleweapon they want and which stat (DEX or STR) they want to use for it and done. It is one special weapon tied to their character. Will min/maxers find a way to abuse it? Most likely, they do most things, but in the end, it will make a majority of people happy they can customize their character in an additional way. Making it optional allows DM's to not allow it if they so wish. Strength users get a better selection to choose a ranged weapon and Dexterity users get some cool options to flavor their character. This also excludes the heavy property melee weapons, so people won't complain about assassins with great axes or bards with a two-handed sword, it is a solid win IMO.
What would be best is to allow an optional character creation ability for all races to choose one weapon from a limited selection and determine if they wanted to use STR or DEX for it. This could allow a Barbarian/fighter/Paladin to choose a longbow or crossbow as a strength weapon and a rogue or bard to use a longsword or battleax as a dexterity weapon. In the end, it doesn't really matter one way or the other damage-wise, let people play the character aesthetic they want. If they want their rogue using a longsword what is the big deal? If they use it two-handed it can deal 2 more damage, but they can't dual wield anymore.
The list should probably consist of Longbow, Shortbow, Light/Heavy Crossbows, Flail, Morning Star, versatile Martial weapons, and all simple weapons. Just give it as an optional character creation ability to all races and let them choose the Singleweapon they want and which stat (DEX or STR) they want to use for it and done. It is one special weapon tied to their character. Will min/maxers find a way to abuse it? Most likely, they do most things, but in the end, it will make a majority of people happy they can customize their character in an additional way. Making it optional allows DM's to not allow it if they so wish. Strength users get a better selection to choose a ranged weapon and Dexterity users get some cool options to flavor their character. This also excludes the heavy property melee weapons, so people won't complain about assassins with great axes or bards with a two-handed sword, it is a solid win IMO.
Interesting idea, but instead of a select list you might as well just use your last idea and just make it non-heavy property weapons. Might as well include Special property for DEX lance builds too.
But in the end it kind of makes weapon properties useless. And it’s all well and good for STR/DEX builds but what about the INT attacking artificer? Or CHA based hexblade. You going to give them a list to select from too so they aren’t left out of the “single” weapon they can choose? Sorry, a bit of hyperbole on my part.
Dex doesn't really need anything to help it be even better than it already is than strength.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The fact that they are dex weapons goes back to elves being:
- master archers
- having a dex bonus
Now that Tashas sorted out the dex bonus problem, a proper elf archer could have a str bonus and still be a master archer. Bows should be strength. Crossbows should be dex.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The way things are going I wouldn’t be surprised to see them just make each class have its primary stat usable for to hit and damage. Some artificers can use INT, Hexblade can use CHA, monks can use DEX on any “monk weapon” via dedicated weapon and proficiency. I’m sure there might be others. Not to say that I think it is a good idea, they seem to be adding more options since the PHB.
Yeah.
And why i think longswords should have the dex option is it is primarily precision/speed > brute force.
And the reason that longswords don't is because dexterity is already an overly powerful ability score and does not need more piled on.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
And it will be a better rapier. So why i suggested originally that the base dmg die for one handed could be reduced.
In terms of logic I can see where people are coming from in wanting longswords to perhaps be dex. In terms of game design however, I think it's better left as is, and just use a reapier or short sword. It seems to be a deliberate design choice that no two handed/versatile weapons have the finesse property, regardless of realism.
Exactly. It’s basically “spreadsheet” design. List the weapons, compare what has what damage die, then make some versatile, some light, some finesse. Just don’t double up too many check boxes and you are good.
I think that’s why longsword, battle axe, and war hammer are basically identical (except with war hammer being bludgeoning), not because they were basically interchangeable on the battlefield in real life, but more of giving the player the option of what their character looked like without one having advantage over the other. So they could have just made a “versatile melee d8/d10 weapon” and let the player decide what it looked like. But since this is D&D and each of those weapons is fairly iconic they gave them same stats.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Not sure if this has already been said, but if you are playing a monk level 2 or greater, long swords can be monk weapons which are DEX weapons, so your elf can have his cake and eat it too.
See Monk Weapons PHB. See Tasha's Cauldron of Everything Optional Monk feature Dedicated Weapon. It's official. It's legal if your DM allows these optional features. Enjoy!
Monks can use the 10lb great club as a dex based weapon perhaps showing that all weapons can be used this way. I don't see a special argument here for longswords.
What would be best is to allow an optional character creation ability for all races to choose one weapon from a limited selection and determine if they wanted to use STR or DEX for it. This could allow a Barbarian/fighter/Paladin to choose a longbow or crossbow as a strength weapon and a rogue or bard to use a longsword or battleax as a dexterity weapon. In the end, it doesn't really matter one way or the other damage-wise, let people play the character aesthetic they want. If they want their rogue using a longsword what is the big deal? If they use it two-handed it can deal 2 more damage, but they can't dual wield anymore.
The list should probably consist of Longbow, Shortbow, Light/Heavy Crossbows, Flail, Morning Star, versatile Martial weapons, and all simple weapons. Just give it as an optional character creation ability to all races and let them choose the Single weapon they want and which stat (DEX or STR) they want to use for it and done. It is one special weapon tied to their character. Will min/maxers find a way to abuse it? Most likely, they do most things, but in the end, it will make a majority of people happy they can customize their character in an additional way. Making it optional allows DM's to not allow it if they so wish. Strength users get a better selection to choose a ranged weapon and Dexterity users get some cool options to flavor their character. This also excludes the heavy property melee weapons, so people won't complain about assassins with great axes or bards with a two-handed sword, it is a solid win IMO.
Interesting idea, but instead of a select list you might as well just use your last idea and just make it non-heavy property weapons. Might as well include Special property for DEX lance builds too.
But in the end it kind of makes weapon properties useless. And it’s all well and good for STR/DEX builds but what about the INT attacking artificer? Or CHA based hexblade. You going to give them a list to select from too so they aren’t left out of the “single” weapon they can choose? Sorry, a bit of hyperbole on my part.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Dex doesn't really need anything to help it be even better than it already is than strength.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Strength, for instance, could be given the potential for characters to be able to use stronger bows with greater range and higher damage potential.
Longbows /should/ be strength weapons.
The fact that they are dex weapons goes back to elves being:
- master archers
- having a dex bonus
Now that Tashas sorted out the dex bonus problem, a proper elf archer could have a str bonus and still be a master archer. Bows should be strength. Crossbows should be dex.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The way things are going I wouldn’t be surprised to see them just make each class have its primary stat usable for to hit and damage. Some artificers can use INT, Hexblade can use CHA, monks can use DEX on any “monk weapon” via dedicated weapon and proficiency. I’m sure there might be others. Not to say that I think it is a good idea, they seem to be adding more options since the PHB.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
We can go full circle and have both DEX and STR bonuses if you are using a composite bow. Hehe. Anyone read Stormlight Archive with their super bows?
I could definitely see this brought back for the right campaign setting.