Dex for attack and STR for damage was how the Weapon Finesse feat worked in 3.5 Edition. Mostly it worked out to Finesse characters being able to hit but not really inflicting much damage when they did. I'm extremely confident that we won't see a return to anything like that given how the game is moving away from heavily MAD classes. And honestly, I'm fine with that because combat in D&D is heavily abstracted and not realistic to begin with.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Dex for attack and STR for damage was how the Weapon Finesse feat worked in 3.5 Edition. Mostly it worked out to Finesse characters being able to hit but not really inflicting much damage when they did. I'm extremely confident that we won't see a return to anything like that given how the game is moving away from heavily MAD classes.
It wouldn't be a problem if every class was MAD, but having it only on some classes is a problem.
Finesse. Yes definitely. Especially weilding two handed. If I were to dm i would rule that if you use it two handed you have the finesse stat.
Why? Longswords were all about power. There's never been anything finesse about longsword use. You use two hands so you can hit harder to penetrate armor.
Almost nothing about longswords is power. Power helps anything, but a sword like this is all about adaptability and finesse. They evolved into estocs (longsword/rapier to find weakpoints in improving armour) or just got bigger and became greatswords which definitely needs str.
They were never about cleaving people in half with power. But finesse.
And considering they are a one handed sword that can use two hands, absolutely, they are a finesse weapon. You get a lot more control with two hands than you do with one.
However, mechanically, that would be broken for two reasons: one, that the rapier would just be a long sword, but worse. Two, the monk's class ability is to use non-heavy weapons with the dex stat.
And considering they are a one handed sword that can use two hands, absolutely, they are a finesse weapon. You get a lot more control with two hands than you do with one.
However, mechanically, that would be broken for two reasons: one, that the rapier would just be a long sword, but worse. Two, the monk's class ability is to use non-heavy weapons with the dex stat.
Finesse as a term is not well defined in its use in d&d but I suspect that there is a lot more to it than control.
A spear, used two-handed, can be used with a lot of control and much more in the manner of a rapier, shortsword or dagger than a longsword so, if any addition should be made to the list of finesse weapons, I think that place might go to the two-handed use of spears.
One-handed use of spears, in comparison, was comparatively clumsy and only prove of worth in close formation fighting behind shields typically to jab in while an opponent was focused on one of your allies. One-handed spear use would certainly have been useless in a Polearm Master type application where it would have had less force than a majorette twirled baton.
As a two-handed weapon, it was the epitome of a weapon of even far-reaching control.
Hello everybody, this question has come over me time and time again, whenever I make a character I am always thinking about the aesthetic side of it. I want to picture my Variant Human Ranger (with the dual wielder feat of course) dual wielding longswords and striking his foes down using his dexterity modifier of course. Exactly my point is Drizzt Do'Urden, you don't see Drizzt dual wielding Rapiers at any point, you see him dual wielding LONGSWORDS even though he is a Dextrous character through and through. I feel that longswords should have an exception that longswords should have an exception that they can use a Dex modifier or a Strength one.
I wanted to hear your thoughts on this question
Drizzt uses scimitars according to the books in which he was introduced by R.A. Salvatore. In 5E scimitars are light d6 weapons so you, and Drizzt can dual wield no problem. I would bet money they made scimitars light specifically because of Drizzt.
As far as aesthetics just flavor the rapier to look more like a longsword. Giving longsword finesse and versatile properties is too much. and if you want to dual wield them you also need the light property or the feat. And adding the light property on top of finesse and versatile is way OP.
Hello everybody, this question has come over me time and time again, whenever I make a character I am always thinking about the aesthetic side of it. I want to picture my Variant Human Ranger (with the dual wielder feat of course) dual wielding longswords and striking his foes down using his dexterity modifier of course. Exactly my point is Drizzt Do'Urden, you don't see Drizzt dual wielding Rapiers at any point, you see him dual wielding LONGSWORDS even though he is a Dextrous character through and through. I feel that longswords should have an exception that longswords should have an exception that they can use a Dex modifier or a Strength one.
I wanted to hear your thoughts on this question
Drizzt uses scimitars according to the books in which he was introduced by R.A. Salvatore. In 5E scimitars are light d6 weapons so you, and Drizzt can dual wield no problem. I would bet money they made scimitars light specifically because of Drizzt.
As far as aesthetics just flavor the rapier to look more like a longsword. Giving longsword finesse and versatile properties is too much. and if you want to dual wield them you also need the light property or the feat. And adding the light property on top of finesse and versatile is way OP.
Longswords and scimitars are both slashing martial weapons weighing 3 lbs. I personally think making scimitars especially a finesse weapon was an error.
It may have been a bad idea (and making them light weapons was definitely not something based on actual historic scimitars in any way), but it was a deliberate design choice.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
True. I just don't see why a curved 3 lb slashing blade could be more suited for finesse than a straight 3lb slashing blade especially when other finesse blades are piercing.
It’s the same reason rapiers are a d8 finesse weapon. Purely mechanics. They needed a d8 weapon with finesse so there was at least one, so too many people didn’t complain that finesse weapons were d6 or less. And they made scimitars light becuse dual wielding scimitars has been part of D&D since 1988 and Drizzt
No other reason, for better or worse, in my opinion.
True. I just don't see why a curved 3 lb slashing blade could be more suited for finesse than a straight 3lb slashing blade especially when other finesse blades are piercing.
because drizzt do'urden dual wields them in the novels, and they wanted to make a somewhat iconic character available to easily clone.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Finesse. Yes definitely. Especially weilding two handed. If I were to dm i would rule that if you use it two handed you have the finesse stat.
Why? Longswords were all about power. There's never been anything finesse about longsword use. You use two hands so you can hit harder to penetrate armor.
Almost nothing about longswords is power. Power helps anything, but a sword like this is all about adaptability and finesse. They evolved into estocs (longsword/rapier to find weakpoints in improving armour) or just got bigger and became greatswords which definitely needs str.
They were never about cleaving people in half with power. But finesse.
they are about penetrating armor and that's power, not finesse.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
For swords, "penetrating armor" means stabbing a weak spot, not hitting harder to cut through. That's something that only happens in anime. Defeating armor with force is what you do with a bludgeoning weapon like a mace.
In the real world, you need a mix of both strength and precision, with the optimum ratio varying based on what kind of weapon is being used and what type of armor it's being used against. As has been repeatedly pointed out, D&D's combat system is heavily simplified for ease of game purposes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Finesse. Yes definitely. Especially weilding two handed. If I were to dm i would rule that if you use it two handed you have the finesse stat.
Why? Longswords were all about power. There's never been anything finesse about longsword use. You use two hands so you can hit harder to penetrate armor.
Almost nothing about longswords is power. Power helps anything, but a sword like this is all about adaptability and finesse. They evolved into estocs (longsword/rapier to find weakpoints in improving armour) or just got bigger and became greatswords which definitely needs str.
They were never about cleaving people in half with power. But finesse.
they are about penetrating armor and that's power, not finesse.
Swords almost never penetrate armour... What makes you think that?? If anything a rapier or estoc is designed to find a gap in the armour to penetrate. And can more easily get through gaps in and make larger, chainmail.
If you want to penetrate armour. The last thing you use is a sword.
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Dex for attack and STR for damage was how the Weapon Finesse feat worked in 3.5 Edition. Mostly it worked out to Finesse characters being able to hit but not really inflicting much damage when they did. I'm extremely confident that we won't see a return to anything like that given how the game is moving away from heavily MAD classes. And honestly, I'm fine with that because combat in D&D is heavily abstracted and not realistic to begin with.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It wouldn't be a problem if every class was MAD, but having it only on some classes is a problem.
.
Almost nothing about longswords is power. Power helps anything, but a sword like this is all about adaptability and finesse. They evolved into estocs (longsword/rapier to find weakpoints in improving armour) or just got bigger and became greatswords which definitely needs str.
They were never about cleaving people in half with power. But finesse.
https://youtu.be/xruM1DylSZE
How much of that favours strength over dexterity?
And considering they are a one handed sword that can use two hands, absolutely, they are a finesse weapon. You get a lot more control with two hands than you do with one.
However, mechanically, that would be broken for two reasons: one, that the rapier would just be a long sword, but worse. Two, the monk's class ability is to use non-heavy weapons with the dex stat.
Finesse as a term is not well defined in its use in d&d but I suspect that there is a lot more to it than control.
A spear, used two-handed, can be used with a lot of control and much more in the manner of a rapier, shortsword or dagger than a longsword so, if any addition should be made to the list of finesse weapons, I think that place might go to the two-handed use of spears.
One-handed use of spears, in comparison, was comparatively clumsy and only prove of worth in close formation fighting behind shields typically to jab in while an opponent was focused on one of your allies. One-handed spear use would certainly have been useless in a Polearm Master type application where it would have had less force than a majorette twirled baton.
As a two-handed weapon, it was the epitome of a weapon of even far-reaching control.
Drizzt uses scimitars according to the books in which he was introduced by R.A. Salvatore. In 5E scimitars are light d6 weapons so you, and Drizzt can dual wield no problem. I would bet money they made scimitars light specifically because of Drizzt.
As far as aesthetics just flavor the rapier to look more like a longsword. Giving longsword finesse and versatile properties is too much. and if you want to dual wield them you also need the light property or the feat. And adding the light property on top of finesse and versatile is way OP.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Longswords and scimitars are both slashing martial weapons weighing 3 lbs. I personally think making scimitars especially a finesse weapon was an error.
It may have been a bad idea (and making them light weapons was definitely not something based on actual historic scimitars in any way), but it was a deliberate design choice.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
historically swords of both straight and curved forms have existed in great variety
They have, but "scimitar" was a name that was rarely if ever applied to a light blade.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
True. I just don't see why a curved 3 lb slashing blade could be more suited for finesse than a straight 3lb slashing blade especially when other finesse blades are piercing.
Writer fiat. And making Drizzt an easier, less terrible build.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It’s the same reason rapiers are a d8 finesse weapon. Purely mechanics. They needed a d8 weapon with finesse so there was at least one, so too many people didn’t complain that finesse weapons were d6 or less. And they made scimitars light becuse dual wielding scimitars has been part of D&D since 1988 and Drizzt
No other reason, for better or worse, in my opinion.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
because drizzt do'urden dual wields them in the novels, and they wanted to make a somewhat iconic character available to easily clone.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
they are about penetrating armor and that's power, not finesse.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
For swords, "penetrating armor" means stabbing a weak spot, not hitting harder to cut through. That's something that only happens in anime. Defeating armor with force is what you do with a bludgeoning weapon like a mace.
In the real world, you need a mix of both strength and precision, with the optimum ratio varying based on what kind of weapon is being used and what type of armor it's being used against. As has been repeatedly pointed out, D&D's combat system is heavily simplified for ease of game purposes.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
.
Swords almost never penetrate armour... What makes you think that?? If anything a rapier or estoc is designed to find a gap in the armour to penetrate. And can more easily get through gaps in and make larger, chainmail.
If you want to penetrate armour. The last thing you use is a sword.