Can we please just stop. This has been already discussed already times. TCOE isn’t going to kill anything. Nothing is gained nor lost. Please wait until we see what changes are going to be when the book comes out.
Are we seriously going to get those posts every week until Tasha’s releases? Please mods why do we have to have these threads every week?
I understand we haven't even seen what TCoE is going to add, so perhaps I am getting concerned over nothing. As I said, I just love this game. I do look forward to the new content and hope that things won't change too much in future products.
Perhaps that is the point, but I think that doing this is completely unnecessary. If a DM wants to change a creatures lore and stat bonuses, they can and have been for years. I don't wanna see DnD go into a "oh we have to worry about the beholders feelings because we don't know all he has been through." In DnD some things are evil, exploring why may be interesting , but I don't wanna start taking that away, it'll make each of the awesome unique races, less interesting. The legend of Drizzt was largely so awesome because of the evil he came from.
And preconceived notions? All the time in DnD people change things to better fit the story they want to tell. I have never seen this as an issue and feel like it is a poor direction to go with game design. R.A Salvatore had Drizzt leave his evil society and come to the surface to help people. All the time people will have perhaps a red dragon that does an act of good or there are some peaceful kobolds that don't wanna steal and kill. But those stories are interesting because their cultures are normally evil or perhaps some genetic or magical powers makes them evil. If we put everything io a gray zone, tgen suddenly anytime a monster does something good, its like "well lot's do."
People break the preconceived notions of races and montsers all the time. I as a DM, do. In my homebrew world, many orcs are good,because they turned against Gruumsh. But if you take that lore away, then suddenly orc is just a bulkier human and they aren't interesting and unique. If a DM wants to give more depth to hobgoblins they can! The optional rule for changing around racial bonuses, although I don't like it, is fine. What I don't like is that some people in WotC have been saying that somehow orcs and drow are racist and do make connections between them and real life issues. I think that this is bad, because why can't a culture be evil? The reason for why can be explored, but don't take it away. I also don't like the way this is going, because then where do we stop. At some point we'll have to ask the murderous lich about it's feelings before killing it.
Gray zones are a good thing. And even liches have feelings.
That being said, I also agree with everyone else that this topic has been discussed to death.
I understand we haven't even seen what TCoE is going to add, so perhaps I am getting concerned over nothing. As I said, I just love this game. I do look forward to the new content and hope that things won't change too much in future products.
I look forward to all content and don’t care if things change at all. Everything changes. If Wizards want to change it then they can as it is their product. The one thing that they have stated a few times now is you don’t have to the legacy options. If you want to use the races as they are originally written. This book has only been announced a week or two now and I already have already seen more threads about it then there are on the book that is coming out on Tuesday.
I understand we haven't even seen what TCoE is going to add, so perhaps I am getting concerned over nothing. As I said, I just love this game. I do look forward to the new content and hope that things won't change too much in future products.
I look forward to all content and don’t care if things change at all. Everything changes. If Wizards want to change it then they can as it is their product. The one thing that they have stated a few times now is you don’t have to the legacy options. If you want to use the races as they are originally written. This book has only been announced a week or two now and I already have already seen more threads about it then there are on the book that is coming out on Tuesday.
It is because in a way they are wanting to change fundamentally how the races work in DnD. These new options are fine, as I have said. I just don't want them to become the new standard or base for future stuff. And yes of course it is their product, they can do what they want. But as someone who buys the books, loves the game and plays all the time, I wanted to share my opinion on it.
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
But as someone who buys the books, loves the game and plays all the time, I wanted to share my opinion on it.
Best thing you can do if you don't like what WOTC is up to, is to stop giving them money. Vote with your wallet. Play another game, such as Dungeon Crawl Classics or Dark Albion, that aligns more with your principles or with what you want to see in a game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
But as someone who buys the books, loves the game and plays all the time, I wanted to share my opinion on it.
Best thing you can do if you don't like what WOTC is up to, is to stop giving them money. Vote with your wallet. Play another game, such as Dungeon Crawl Classics or Dark Albion, that aligns more with your principles or with what you want to see in a game.
I am probably gonna do that if I find I don't like the content, but I just don't think it would help. I think that they are gonna keep going that direction anyway.
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
In the last two books they have make the Orcs in those books not evil(Eberron: rising from the last war and Explorers guide to Wildemount) and I bet you didn’t anything, did you? Wizards have been slowly getting away from that trope for awhile and now because of Tasha’s that is causing this from you. Not only has there been a 32 page thread about this but there also have been two other threads about this topic.
Orcs and all that... not necessarily racist, but Tasha's will make them perfect for further customisation! Also, please, no talk of "Race". The term, as you use it... well, let's say there is no such thing as race. We're all the same!
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
In the last two books they have make the Orcs in those books not evil(Eberron: rising from the last war and Explorers guide to Wildemount) and I bet you didn’t anything, did you? Wizards have been slowly getting away from that trope for awhile and now because of Tasha’s that is causing this from you. Not only has there been a 32 page thread about this but there also have been two other threads about this topic.
I didn't see those other threads on this topic. I just saw some statements by WotC and had a concern and opinion about the way they were wanting to go with the game I love. I thought I would share my opinion and see what other people thought. I don't know why some people are being hostile towards me. I love DnD and the DnD community, I thought that I could bring a concern I had and discuss it. I don't really read the setting books they release. I get a lot of the books, but even adventures I place in my own setting where some orcs are good. But I just don't want them to throw out the lore about drow and orcs being mostly evil in the future CORE rules. Other settings and homebrew worlds can do whatever they like. But I just like the core lore and rules as we see them now. I think it is a great thing to build from. If some people wanna take away, or add to it, that is fine! I encourage it, but I wanna keep what we have now as at least the base point to go from for general DnD products. But this is just my opinion and view of the game. I am not trying to be offensive in any way! I just wanted to share my thoughts
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
In the last two books they have make the Orcs in those books not evil(Eberron: rising from the last war and Explorers guide to Wildemount) and I bet you didn’t anything, did you? Wizards have been slowly getting away from that trope for awhile and now because of Tasha’s that is causing this from you. Not only has there been a 32 page thread about this but there also have been two other threads about this topic.
I didn't see those other threads on this topic. I just saw some statements by WotC and had a concern and opinion about the way they were wanting to go with the game I love. I thought I would share my opinion and see what other people thought. I don't know why some people are being hostile towards me. I love DnD and the DnD community, I thought that I could bring a concern I had and discuss it. I don't really read the setting books they release. I get a lot of the books, but even adventures I place in my own setting where some orcs are good. But I just don't want them to throw out the lore about drow and orcs being mostly evil in the future CORE rules. Other settings and homebrew worlds can do whatever they like. But I just like the core lore and rules as we see them now. I think it is a great thing to build from. If some people wanna take away, or add to it, that is fine! I encourage it, but I wanna keep what we have now as at least the base point to go from for general DnD products. But this is just my opinion and view of the game. I am not trying to be offensive in any way! I just wanted to share my thoughts
There are some problems in making races dumber... That’s a bit cruel. But, then again, Tasha’s biggest reward isn’t against racism (as orcs are in fact a creation and some are constantly being controlled by Gruumsh)... It’s in making the game more customizable. But, then again, everyone is entitled to their opinions as well. We’re (or, at least, you guys are, I’m a Celestial) all human, even the racists, and we need to be better than those who hate others of different appearances.
*Puts on Brodie helmet and hops into trench. Loads up Honest Opinion and fires one round.*
We’ll see what happens when the book is actually released. No point making more threads about this until we see what happens!
Good point. But, hey, Tasha’s is probably for the players. It’s all optional, so everyone can do what they want! It’s like MOoT and GGtR - merely a nice edition, not essential.
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
In the last two books they have make the Orcs in those books not evil(Eberron: rising from the last war and Explorers guide to Wildemount) and I bet you didn’t anything, did you? Wizards have been slowly getting away from that trope for awhile and now because of Tasha’s that is causing this from you. Not only has there been a 32 page thread about this but there also have been two other threads about this topic.
I didn't see those other threads on this topic. I just saw some statements by WotC and had a concern and opinion about the way they were wanting to go with the game I love. I thought I would share my opinion and see what other people thought. I don't know why some people are being hostile towards me. I love DnD and the DnD community, I thought that I could bring a concern I had and discuss it. I don't really read the setting books they release. I get a lot of the books, but even adventures I place in my own setting where some orcs are good. But I just don't want them to throw out the lore about drow and orcs being mostly evil in the future CORE rules. Other settings and homebrew worlds can do whatever they like. But I just like the core lore and rules as we see them now. I think it is a great thing to build from. If some people wanna take away, or add to it, that is fine! I encourage it, but I wanna keep what we have now as at least the base point to go from for general DnD products. But this is just my opinion and view of the game. I am not trying to be offensive in any way! I just wanted to share my thoughts
I am sorry that you think people are being hostile but No one here is being hostile. The thing is yes you can post your opinion but like what is stated there have other threads on this and we have had this discussion before and it had been locked. It is also not difficult to look and see the other threads. Also, I am also allowed to not want a thread about this subject every week and this is what it is turning out to be.
If WoTC wants to change Drow and Orc and make them non-evil, they can do that. I don’t think they will change it in 5e at least. They have stated multiple times that you can use the base class as they written now if you don’t like the changes. You are looking too far in advance. Don’t worry about it and if a change happens then decide at that time. Changes aren’t bad everything in nature change all the time.
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
In the last two books they have make the Orcs in those books not evil(Eberron: rising from the last war and Explorers guide to Wildemount) and I bet you didn’t anything, did you? Wizards have been slowly getting away from that trope for awhile and now because of Tasha’s that is causing this from you. Not only has there been a 32 page thread about this but there also have been two other threads about this topic.
I didn't see those other threads on this topic. I just saw some statements by WotC and had a concern and opinion about the way they were wanting to go with the game I love. I thought I would share my opinion and see what other people thought. I don't know why some people are being hostile towards me. I love DnD and the DnD community, I thought that I could bring a concern I had and discuss it. I don't really read the setting books they release. I get a lot of the books, but even adventures I place in my own setting where some orcs are good. But I just don't want them to throw out the lore about drow and orcs being mostly evil in the future CORE rules. Other settings and homebrew worlds can do whatever they like. But I just like the core lore and rules as we see them now. I think it is a great thing to build from. If some people wanna take away, or add to it, that is fine! I encourage it, but I wanna keep what we have now as at least the base point to go from for general DnD products. But this is just my opinion and view of the game. I am not trying to be offensive in any way! I just wanted to share my thoughts
I am sorry that you think people are being hostile but No one here is being hostile. The thing is yes you can post your opinion but like what is stated there have other threads on this and we have had this discussion before and it had been locked. It is also not difficult to look and see the other threads. Also, I am also allowed to not want a thread about this subject every week and this is what it is turning out to be.
If WoTC wants to change Drow and Orc and make them non-evil, they can do that. I don’t think they will change it in 5e at least. They have stated multiple times that you can use the base class as they written now if you don’t like the changes. You are looking too far in advance. Don’t worry about it and if a change happens then decide at that time. Changes aren’t bad everything in nature change all the time.
Oh, I thought they were making new errata for volos, the monster manual and etc. But Drow? Evil? Seriously? They’re seriously cool!
I understand we haven't even seen what TCoE is going to add, so perhaps I am getting concerned over nothing. As I said, I just love this game. I do look forward to the new content and hope that things won't change too much in future products.
I look forward to all content and don’t care if things change at all. Everything changes. If Wizards want to change it then they can as it is their product. The one thing that they have stated a few times now is you don’t have to the legacy options. If you want to use the races as they are originally written. This book has only been announced a week or two now and I already have already seen more threads about it then there are on the book that is coming out on Tuesday.
Yes... Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden and Wizard’s Coolest Sounding Adventure Yet (pun very much intended)
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
In the last two books they have make the Orcs in those books not evil(Eberron: rising from the last war and Explorers guide to Wildemount) and I bet you didn’t anything, did you? Wizards have been slowly getting away from that trope for awhile and now because of Tasha’s that is causing this from you. Not only has there been a 32 page thread about this but there also have been two other threads about this topic.
I didn't see those other threads on this topic. I just saw some statements by WotC and had a concern and opinion about the way they were wanting to go with the game I love. I thought I would share my opinion and see what other people thought. I don't know why some people are being hostile towards me. I love DnD and the DnD community, I thought that I could bring a concern I had and discuss it. I don't really read the setting books they release. I get a lot of the books, but even adventures I place in my own setting where some orcs are good. But I just don't want them to throw out the lore about drow and orcs being mostly evil in the future CORE rules. Other settings and homebrew worlds can do whatever they like. But I just like the core lore and rules as we see them now. I think it is a great thing to build from. If some people wanna take away, or add to it, that is fine! I encourage it, but I wanna keep what we have now as at least the base point to go from for general DnD products. But this is just my opinion and view of the game. I am not trying to be offensive in any way! I just wanted to share my thoughts
I am sorry that you think people are being hostile but No one here is being hostile. The thing is yes you can post your opinion but like what is stated there have other threads on this and we have had this discussion before and it had been locked. It is also not difficult to look and see the other threads. Also, I am also allowed to not want a thread about this subject every week and this is what it is turning out to be.
If WoTC wants to change Drow and Orc and make them non-evil, they can do that. I don’t think they will change it in 5e at least. They have stated multiple times that you can use the base class as they written now if you don’t like the changes. You are looking too far in advance. Don’t worry about it and if a change happens then decide at that time. Changes aren’t bad everything in nature change all the time.
Oh, I thought they were making new errata for volos, the monster manual and etc. But Drow? Evil? Seriously? They’re seriously cool!
🤷♀️ If they are they are. I don’t know. My last character was a drow. She was also an acolyte of the Raven Queen. But then again she was a belly dancer assassin/spy. So yea I agree Drow are seriously cool!
Yeah, two out of five characters I’ve made for a proper campaign were Drow. One died after 3 hrs 30 mins. The other retired as game was postponed due to covid.
Can we please just stop. This has been already discussed already times. TCOE isn’t going to kill anything. Nothing is gained nor lost. Please wait until we see what changes are going to be when the book comes out.
Are we seriously going to get those posts every week until Tasha’s releases? Please mods why do we have to have these threads every week?
I understand we haven't even seen what TCoE is going to add, so perhaps I am getting concerned over nothing. As I said, I just love this game. I do look forward to the new content and hope that things won't change too much in future products.
Gray zones are a good thing. And even liches have feelings.
That being said, I also agree with everyone else that this topic has been discussed to death.
I look forward to all content and don’t care if things change at all. Everything changes. If Wizards want to change it then they can as it is their product. The one thing that they have stated a few times now is you don’t have to the legacy options. If you want to use the races as they are originally written.
This book has only been announced a week or two now and I already have already seen more threads about it then there are on the book that is coming out on Tuesday.
It is because in a way they are wanting to change fundamentally how the races work in DnD. These new options are fine, as I have said. I just don't want them to become the new standard or base for future stuff. And yes of course it is their product, they can do what they want. But as someone who buys the books, loves the game and plays all the time, I wanted to share my opinion on it.
The issue, AS22, is that there was a giant thirty-five page flaming argument on this exact same subject that was locked and fell off the front page not even two weeks ago. The scars from that one haven't healed, and it involved most of the same folks who'd normally respond to this one. We've all dun said what we can about the contents of the book and whether or not it represents an unacceptable pollution of the idea of species in D&D, and it drove the mods spitting mad enough to deep-six the thread.
People don't want real-life issues intruding in their fantasy games. Game Night is supposed to be a safe space, a fun space, where everything is merry and the world can go stuff itself for a few hours. If, to you, that means orcs are Always Evil and the story is about stopping them from taking over the Kingdom? Go for it. For some of the rest of us, getting rid of that mentality is what creates the safe, fun space.
Trust me. Nobody who calls him/herself a gamer and means it is going to take this as liberty to create awful chimera nonsense monsters with 'just the best bits' from every species. Munchkins don't need any new rules to do their munchkin thing, and the rest of us are here to use these new tools to expand stories and worldbuilding, not abandon it.
So don't take it as a personal affront that people are trying to sink the thread. You just had unfortunate timing with it is all, and people are trying to avoid another Poo-rricane. Just try to remember - the rest of us buy the books and love the game too, hm? Warts and all, we're all here to play. Some of us just have different ways of doing it.
Please do not contact or message me.
Best thing you can do if you don't like what WOTC is up to, is to stop giving them money. Vote with your wallet. Play another game, such as Dungeon Crawl Classics or Dark Albion, that aligns more with your principles or with what you want to see in a game.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I am probably gonna do that if I find I don't like the content, but I just don't think it would help. I think that they are gonna keep going that direction anyway.
I understand this is a sensitive subject because of all the stuff that has happened around this. But in response to your second paragraph, I think that if some people are offended by orcs and drow, that they can just change that for their game. I don't see the need to make it the new normal.
And I am not a orcs are evil absolutist. Half the orcs in my world are good, there is gray zone there. But what allows that to be interesting in my world is that in base lore, they are normally wholly evil. I think that if they start messing with the lore of any of the races that they will become less interesting and more generic or perhaps bland.
In the last two books they have make the Orcs in those books not evil(Eberron: rising from the last war and Explorers guide to Wildemount) and I bet you didn’t anything, did you?
Wizards have been slowly getting away from that trope for awhile and now because of Tasha’s that is causing this from you.
Not only has there been a 32 page thread about this but there also have been two other threads about this topic.
Orcs and all that... not necessarily racist, but Tasha's will make them perfect for further customisation! Also, please, no talk of "Race". The term, as you use it... well, let's say there is no such thing as race. We're all the same!
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
I didn't see those other threads on this topic. I just saw some statements by WotC and had a concern and opinion about the way they were wanting to go with the game I love. I thought I would share my opinion and see what other people thought. I don't know why some people are being hostile towards me. I love DnD and the DnD community, I thought that I could bring a concern I had and discuss it. I don't really read the setting books they release. I get a lot of the books, but even adventures I place in my own setting where some orcs are good. But I just don't want them to throw out the lore about drow and orcs being mostly evil in the future CORE rules. Other settings and homebrew worlds can do whatever they like. But I just like the core lore and rules as we see them now. I think it is a great thing to build from. If some people wanna take away, or add to it, that is fine! I encourage it, but I wanna keep what we have now as at least the base point to go from for general DnD products. But this is just my opinion and view of the game. I am not trying to be offensive in any way! I just wanted to share my thoughts
There are some problems in making races dumber... That’s a bit cruel. But, then again, Tasha’s biggest reward isn’t against racism (as orcs are in fact a creation and some are constantly being controlled by Gruumsh)... It’s in making the game more customizable. But, then again, everyone is entitled to their opinions as well. We’re (or, at least, you guys are, I’m a Celestial) all human, even the racists, and we need to be better than those who hate others of different appearances.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
Oh boy here we go again.
*Puts on Brodie helmet and hops into trench. Loads up Honest Opinion and fires one round.*
We’ll see what happens when the book is actually released. No point making more threads about this until we see what happens!
Good point. But, hey, Tasha’s is probably for the players. It’s all optional, so everyone can do what they want! It’s like MOoT and GGtR - merely a nice edition, not essential.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
I am sorry that you think people are being hostile but No one here is being hostile. The thing is yes you can post your opinion but like what is stated there have other threads on this and we have had this discussion before and it had been locked. It is also not difficult to look and see the other threads. Also, I am also allowed to not want a thread about this subject every week and this is what it is turning out to be.
If WoTC wants to change Drow and Orc and make them non-evil, they can do that. I don’t think they will change it in 5e at least. They have stated multiple times that you can use the base class as they written now if you don’t like the changes.
You are looking too far in advance. Don’t worry about it and if a change happens then decide at that time. Changes aren’t bad everything in nature change all the time.
Oh, I thought they were making new errata for volos, the monster manual and etc. But Drow? Evil? Seriously? They’re seriously cool!
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
Yes... Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden and Wizard’s Coolest Sounding Adventure Yet (pun very much intended)
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
🤷♀️ If they are they are. I don’t know. My last character was a drow. She was also an acolyte of the Raven Queen. But then again she was a belly dancer assassin/spy. So yea I agree Drow are seriously cool!
Yeah, two out of five characters I’ve made for a proper campaign were Drow. One died after 3 hrs 30 mins. The other retired as game was postponed due to covid.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!