I find it weird that Orcs no longer start with Intimidation and yet Half-orcs still have Menacing. But with Primal Intuition that trait makes it so you can take Intimidation if you want it. Weird.
The fact that orcs or half-orcs started with intimidation by default was weird by itself. Are they supposed to be just born knowing how to scare people?
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The fact that orcs or half-orcs started with intimidation by default was weird by itself. Are they supposed to be just born knowing how to scare people?
I think their racial reputation is part of it. Obviously there could be exceptions, but that goes for all racial abilities that are't genetically hardcoded.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"Racial traits henceforth reflect only the physical or magical realities of being a player character who’s a member of a particular lineage... Finally, going forward, the term 'race' in D&D refers only to the suite of game features used by player characters." This is a direct quote from the newer gothic lineages from Unearthed Arcana. I do like these character lineages, mainly because I don't like the fact that current D&D races don't explore the darker side of the feywild present in hags and redcaps. Eladrin and firbolgs are distinct and interesting, but they don't quite scratch that itch. I love these new gothic lineages, but I also hope that Wizards can also provide material for people who want the traditional player races. I want different races to feel unique, and I don't want the Player's Handbook to become obelete. Thankfully, I think we can expect a return to the establishment of new player races, because you can only get so far with these lineages. Profit drives Wizards of the Coast, and we know what happens when they try to deviate too hard from their roots. And if you don't know, I've got a copy of the 4th Edition Manual of the Planes you can borrow.
I know that a DM could always just homebrew a player race, but remember that D&D needs to expand in a way so that it stays true to its origins. Remember, if they want to remove races, they can just make the standard array 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8 and add 3 to the point-buy system. Sooner or later, people are going to realize that giving racial traits to different types of humans may be less of a solution than it originally seems.
"Racial traits henceforth reflect only the physical or magical realities of being a player character who’s a member of a particular lineage... Finally, going forward, the term 'race' in D&D refers only to the suite of game features used by player characters." This is a direct quote from the newer gothic lineages from Unearthed Arcana. I do like these character lineages, mainly because I don't like the fact that current D&D races don't explore the darker side of the feywild present in hags and redcaps. Eladrin and firbolgs are distinct and interesting, but they don't quite scratch that itch. I love these new gothic lineages, but I also hope that Wizards can also provide material for people who want the traditional player races. I want different races to feel unique, and I don't want the Player's Handbook to become obelete. Thankfully, I think we can expect a return to the establishment of new player races, because you can only get so far with these lineages. Profit drives Wizards of the Coast, and we know what happens when they try to deviate too hard from their roots. And if you don't know, I've got a copy of the 4th Edition Manual of the Planes you can borrow.
I love them as well but WotC needs to say what a race keeps when using a new lineage. That old Kenko cannot talk normal, but one built with the custom lineage has no issues talking. Dragonborn have a breath weapon attack, Goliaths have large frame but they lose those if they are say reborn or the custom lineage from Tasha's. Now I also like the races from the PHB with the ASI and language/skill/weapon swapping as per Tasha's. But again I feel these lineages really lack what the old races lose when you use them.
and if you really dont like this way, you can still play Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, with white good guys versus "colored" bad guys (any color, green, black, red.. )
and all the bad dragons are obviously RED ONES (the other colors were.. less bad than the iconic RED dragon... or all the fiends being BLACK or RED...)
and we were all eterosexual, the girls had giant boobs in chain mail ...the drow society was an EVIL society ruled by... FEMALES...
you catch the drift ?
ah, we were thoughts as satanists in those good old times...
prejudice, racism.. all reflects in our "games"
i love the new tendency tbh, long life to tasha and her options
long life to this great game, that thanks to the people behind it, as started to fight prejudice since a very long time
Agreed
1. We're not factoring in deep gnomes and non-white wood elves and humans, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down.
2. We're not factoring in the evil white dragons and the good gold, copper, bronze, brass, and silver dragons, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down.
3. We're not factoring in the fact that the designers while were heterosexual many of the early and current players were not and that the drow were intended to be a flip of real-world medieval Europe, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down
4. We're not factoring in that early scares about D&D were linked to a misunderstanding of depression (in the case of James Dallas Egbert III, who I might remind you was actually gay and came to this roleplaying game as an escape from his struggle coming to terms with this), most of these accusations were disproven, and those concerns that were brought up were mostly by extremely religious groups, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down.
5. We're not factoring in the fact that you just insulted this game's history, right? Because if we do, your praise breaks down.
My apologies. I sacrificed some of the nuance and complexity of our arguments for the sake of poetry. I just feel that TSR was founded in a different time, and part of what makes D&D unique is its long history. D&D is not generic, and dare I say it but it's not universal. In other words, it isn't GURPS. Abandoning the roots of D&D can destroy that unique aspect that makes the game great.
Thread was on a super contentious topic the mods go out of their way to lock every time it pops up.
D'ye think maaaybe this one should've stayed buried?
I wanted to give my two cents on the matter. You don't want to talk about it, you don't have to read or post on the thread. My apologies if this isn't a conversation you don't want other people to have.
I'm so sorry for offending you, Ithia. I apologize that you did not see the...well. Joel made a useful list. Let's just say that I apologize for not realizing you hadn't seen any of these.
Ah. My apologies. I wasn't entirely sure what I was getting myself into.
Ya the listed threads just devolved so badly, that is one reason that I wish older threads would get locked automatically like if no new posts for say 60 days.
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I find it weird that Orcs no longer start with Intimidation and yet Half-orcs still have Menacing. But with Primal Intuition that trait makes it so you can take Intimidation if you want it. Weird.
The fact that orcs or half-orcs started with intimidation by default was weird by itself. Are they supposed to be just born knowing how to scare people?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
No, but they are physically intimidating (think of it in the terms of intimidation(Str) instead of intimidation(Cha)). They are a mass of muscles.
I think their racial reputation is part of it. Obviously there could be exceptions, but that goes for all racial abilities that are't genetically hardcoded.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"Racial traits henceforth reflect only the physical or magical realities of being a player character who’s a member of a particular lineage... Finally, going forward, the term 'race' in D&D refers only to the suite of game features used by player characters." This is a direct quote from the newer gothic lineages from Unearthed Arcana. I do like these character lineages, mainly because I don't like the fact that current D&D races don't explore the darker side of the feywild present in hags and redcaps. Eladrin and firbolgs are distinct and interesting, but they don't quite scratch that itch. I love these new gothic lineages, but I also hope that Wizards can also provide material for people who want the traditional player races. I want different races to feel unique, and I don't want the Player's Handbook to become obelete. Thankfully, I think we can expect a return to the establishment of new player races, because you can only get so far with these lineages. Profit drives Wizards of the Coast, and we know what happens when they try to deviate too hard from their roots. And if you don't know, I've got a copy of the 4th Edition Manual of the Planes you can borrow.
I know that a DM could always just homebrew a player race, but remember that D&D needs to expand in a way so that it stays true to its origins. Remember, if they want to remove races, they can just make the standard array 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8 and add 3 to the point-buy system. Sooner or later, people are going to realize that giving racial traits to different types of humans may be less of a solution than it originally seems.
Ithia.
Thread has been dead for two months.
Thread was on a super contentious topic the mods go out of their way to lock every time it pops up.
D'ye think maaaybe this one should've stayed buried?
Please do not contact or message me.
I love them as well but WotC needs to say what a race keeps when using a new lineage. That old Kenko cannot talk normal, but one built with the custom lineage has no issues talking. Dragonborn have a breath weapon attack, Goliaths have large frame but they lose those if they are say reborn or the custom lineage from Tasha's. Now I also like the races from the PHB with the ASI and language/skill/weapon swapping as per Tasha's. But again I feel these lineages really lack what the old races lose when you use them.
1. We're not factoring in deep gnomes and non-white wood elves and humans, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down.
2. We're not factoring in the evil white dragons and the good gold, copper, bronze, brass, and silver dragons, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down.
3. We're not factoring in the fact that the designers while were heterosexual many of the early and current players were not and that the drow were intended to be a flip of real-world medieval Europe, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down
4. We're not factoring in that early scares about D&D were linked to a misunderstanding of depression (in the case of James Dallas Egbert III, who I might remind you was actually gay and came to this roleplaying game as an escape from his struggle coming to terms with this), most of these accusations were disproven, and those concerns that were brought up were mostly by extremely religious groups, right? Because if we do, your argument breaks down.
5. We're not factoring in the fact that you just insulted this game's history, right? Because if we do, your praise breaks down.
My apologies. I sacrificed some of the nuance and complexity of our arguments for the sake of poetry. I just feel that TSR was founded in a different time, and part of what makes D&D unique is its long history. D&D is not generic, and dare I say it but it's not universal. In other words, it isn't GURPS. Abandoning the roots of D&D can destroy that unique aspect that makes the game great.
I wanted to give my two cents on the matter. You don't want to talk about it, you don't have to read or post on the thread. My apologies if this isn't a conversation you don't want other people to have.
Wow, really trying to bring this thread back? I hope the mods lock this before the fire really gets going.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I'm so sorry for offending you, Ithia. I apologize that you did not see the...well. Joel made a useful list. Let's just say that I apologize for not realizing you hadn't seen any of these.
Please do not contact or message me.
Ah. My apologies. I wasn't entirely sure what I was getting myself into.
Ya the listed threads just devolved so badly, that is one reason that I wish older threads would get locked automatically like if no new posts for say 60 days.