Or they can skip your QR code innovation and move forward with what they're experimenting with on the Dragonlance book. That's the most amusing thing about this threads rejuvenation. WotC is doing/trying something about providing merged DDB/hardcopy products. But they're not going to do it retroactively, and they're likely going to use the next two years of 5e releases to experiment with what will work best for when One D&D comes out. Sort of like they experimented with Theros at its release, though that was on a much smaller scale.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I don't know about your experience but most gaming stores I've been to are small enough that the owner or cashier would certainly see someone peeling off the sticker and taking a picture of the code. Worst case those books get put up by checkout.
Wizards move a lot of books through big stores (B&N, Target, etc.) too, and they won't be any happier with having unsalable or returned merchandise. (And there's also the "buy the book, scan the code, return the book" scam.)
They don't need an excuse. They always could have done it, but decided not to. It might be easier now, but it was never an excuse. Will they change their mind? Maybe, maybe not. They decided not to do it in the past, and I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do it in the future. Their mentality so far suggests they won't. Not only are they not giving DDB access for free, they're basically selling the products with only a marginal discount at best that actually indicates that they want even more profit from the sales. In some regions, it actually costs more to do it through them.
I really wouldn't expect them to be doing free copies or anything close to it.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just saw that at least for Shadows of the Dragon Queen Wizards is offering a bundle for about $10 more than the paper book by itself (or $24 more than the dnd beyond book.) If you want the paper book and are getting the dnd beyond as a bonus its a decent deal. I don't know if it comes with a key that could be sold or if it is bought to a linked account. If it comes with a key and you only want the paper book then buying the bundle and selling the key would be the cheapest way to acquire the paper edition.
Retroactively providing DDB access to content that isn't already bundled with digital content will not be done. There is no unique identifier for content that was and is sold in such a way.
Going forward, there are still technical hurdles, but they are working on it as seen with the digital/physical bundle offering.
If you want digital content bundled with physical content, you will need to wait for the one you want, but without a roadmap, the one you want might never be offered in such a way.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Try this... when you buy the physical book, you bought the rights to use that content anywhere and everywhere you want, that was the contract WotC and HASBRO signed by selling you the book. When DDB was a separate entity owned by a separate company, the separate company had to provide a separate licensing fee to allow any and all users to access content, but that was because they were a toolbox that had a legal obligation to charge everyone to then pass on a cut to WotC/HASBRO. When DDB was bought out, the old company lost all future profits from all the people using their service, they don't get a royalty, they don't get a cut, but by doing so, WotC/HASBRO forfeited the separate entity clause, obligating them to grant access to the same content online that was bought in person, UNLESS they charge a greatly reduced amount for the Digital Version and grant those that own a physical copy a further reduced price (Physical Book $69, Digital Book $7, Digital Copy for owner of Physical Book $0.69 would be a fair amount) with image proof of possession (a selfie at home, in your vehicle, or even at the Post Office would be valid proof. Anywhere that could not be considered inside a potential distribution location), thereby not getting paid twice for the same product. The tiny fee for a Digital copy of a physical book is a digital unlock service fee, which basically is the cost of paying someone to confirm that the verification image or images are 1) the book being claimed and 2) physically owned and not at a distribution location, since someone can verify fairly quickly and go down a checklist, and then click a checkbox on the account to unlock all the content from all the books being claimed, each book taking far less than a minute, which means that at $0.70 a minute, they can pay someone $21/hr and make $21 for that same hour (60 minutes times $0.70 a minute is $42/hr... and that is presuming that actually takes the employee a full minute per book, when in actuality takes less than 10 seconds, meaning they can get 4-6 books checked a minute, the employee gets the $21 for the hour, and the company makes more than $21 profit for something they already actually sold, while still providing their customers the product they agreed to provide when they sold them the book the first time).
I think that saying that when you bought the physical book, "you bought the rights to use that content anywhere and everywhere you want, that was the contract WotC and HASBRO signed by selling you the book."is not correct. You gained the rights to a single physical copy of the copyrighted material for personal use, that's it. Using the content anywhere and everywhere you want isn't in any way implied, and in fact the copyright prevents that from being the case. You can't for example, use anything outside the SRD and redistribute it in any manner, regardless of whether or not you purchased any or all of the books.
Also, the photo/selfie idea probably wouldn't work, as I'm not sure what would stop people from having each member of their D&D group take a picture with the same book, just using different angles or areas of a house/apartment. Also, not sure each book would be far less than a minute (opening images which have to be connected to a particular account in some manner) plus the system needing to be designed and built. Also how do you clearly define what the parameters must be met in order for the photo to meet the standard of proof of ownership. But the main reason that they would not integrate such a system is that there is no need. Many users have demonstrated that if they want to use the site tools or have electronically searchable libraries, etc., they are willing to pay for it, whether they already own some or all of the books or not. For Hasbro/WotC and many of their customers the system isn't broken.
Oh, yes, all the members of a group... wait, that is already what you do. Literally. A DM Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts.
You seem to not understand what Copyright means... you can't sell the content to others, you can't claim you invented the content, you can't market the content for mass profit. You can share the content with your group, even copying pages at your own expense and distributing them... and, oh, yeah, thanks to the OGL, you can take a HUGE portion and reuse it, rework it, modify it, and market and sell that.
We literally just had a huge issue at the beginning of this year where WotC/HASBRO nearly lost all their customer base because they decided to breech the contracts they had made with their player base.
So, you're right, WotC/HASBRO should charge nothing for digital content, they get a monthly subscription fee from DMs and Players that want to be able to save other player's Homebrew Content (which, by the way, WotC/HASBRO get free unlimited access to and have to pay no royalties for, as part of membership, paid or unpaid, grants them the rights to use that content without paying a single royalty nor salary to the DM/Player that developed it for them, just like the don't have to pay a cent to the people who playtest for them, so they get the content from the Player Base for Free, the online content should be Free in return) to their accounts; and the free Players are limited to their own work and access to stuff shared within the campaigns they are participating (which they lose access to if they leave or are kicked), and can only have six characters at a time.
Why should someone who paid, literally hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars already to the company, have to pay again for the same product?
Ask yourself this. When you buy a shirt, do you have to rebuy it to wear it on Facebook, and on Twitter, and on Instagram, and again on TikTok? Or do you buy the shirt and have the right to wear it wherever and whenever you want, and loan it to you friend to wear for a party? Last time I checked, when I buy something, I own it in person, and when I want to use it online.
The company got greedy, and keeps proving it, they just wanted to make it so everyone has to buy their books a half dozen times to play, so they can keep making money over and over from the same person without providing new stuff. Remember, Curse of Strahd, Tomb of Annihilation, Out of the Abyss, were all campaigns in earlier editions, they didn't pay the creators again to reuse them, but they wanted everyone to pay at least three times more... once hard copy, once on dnd beyond, and once on the vtt you want to play it on (more if you will be playing it on multiple vtts).
Try this... when you buy the physical book, you bought the rights to use that content anywhere and everywhere you want, that was the contract WotC and HASBRO signed by selling you the book. When DDB was a separate entity owned by a separate company, the separate company had to provide a separate licensing fee to allow any and all users to access content, but that was because they were a toolbox that had a legal obligation to charge everyone to then pass on a cut to WotC/HASBRO. When DDB was bought out, the old company lost all future profits from all the people using their service, they don't get a royalty, they don't get a cut, but by doing so, WotC/HASBRO forfeited the separate entity clause, obligating them to grant access to the same content online that was bought in person, UNLESS they charge a greatly reduced amount for the Digital Version and grant those that own a physical copy a further reduced price (Physical Book $69, Digital Book $7, Digital Copy for owner of Physical Book $0.69 would be a fair amount) with image proof of possession (a selfie at home, in your vehicle, or even at the Post Office would be valid proof. Anywhere that could not be considered inside a potential distribution location), thereby not getting paid twice for the same product. The tiny fee for a Digital copy of a physical book is a digital unlock service fee, which basically is the cost of paying someone to confirm that the verification image or images are 1) the book being claimed and 2) physically owned and not at a distribution location, since someone can verify fairly quickly and go down a checklist, and then click a checkbox on the account to unlock all the content from all the books being claimed, each book taking far less than a minute, which means that at $0.70 a minute, they can pay someone $21/hr and make $21 for that same hour (60 minutes times $0.70 a minute is $42/hr... and that is presuming that actually takes the employee a full minute per book, when in actuality takes less than 10 seconds, meaning they can get 4-6 books checked a minute, the employee gets the $21 for the hour, and the company makes more than $21 profit for something they already actually sold, while still providing their customers the product they agreed to provide when they sold them the book the first time).
DDB is far more than a digital copy of the print book. The verification of ownership for your proposed "solution" is very flawed.
You are correct, it is a paid membership that gives them monthly/annual recurring income that has nothing to do with any service provided, as the service is access to the content online that you paid specifically for again to have access to online... oh, and to save the homebrew content that was made by other players without compensation that they can turn around and add to official content and sell for profit both online and in physical format.
You are also correct about my solution. The real solution is they shouldn't be able to charge a single cent for the digital copies if someone is paying for a membership, and they should have a simple one-time use code that is printed on the receipt from the store the book was purchased from that grants free users access to the book in a digital format (like is already done for Digital copies, DLC, and pre-order content at stores for games, movies, comics, and other stuff).
Oh, yes, all the members of a group... wait, that is already what you do. Literally. A DM Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts.
You seem to not understand what Copyright means... you can't sell the content to others, you can't claim you invented the content, you can't market the content for mass profit. You can share the content with your group, even copying pages at your own expense and distributing them... and, oh, yeah, thanks to the OGL, you can take a HUGE portion and reuse it, rework it, modify it, and market and sell that.
We literally just had a huge issue at the beginning of this year where WotC/HASBRO nearly lost all their customer base because they decided to breech the contracts they had made with their player base.
So, you're right, WotC/HASBRO should charge nothing for digital content, they get a monthly subscription fee from DMs and Players that want to be able to save other player's Homebrew Content (which, by the way, WotC/HASBRO get free unlimited access to and have to pay no royalties for, as part of membership, paid or unpaid, grants them the rights to use that content without paying a single royalty nor salary to the DM/Player that developed it for them, just like the don't have to pay a cent to the people who playtest for them, so they get the content from the Player Base for Free, the online content should be Free in return) to their accounts; and the free Players are limited to their own work and access to stuff shared within the campaigns they are participating (which they lose access to if they leave or are kicked), and can only have six characters at a time.
Why should someone who paid, literally hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars already to the company, have to pay again for the same product?
Ask yourself this. When you buy a shirt, do you have to rebuy it to wear it on Facebook, and on Twitter, and on Instagram, and again on TikTok? Or do you buy the shirt and have the right to wear it wherever and whenever you want, and loan it to you friend to wear for a party? Last time I checked, when I buy something, I own it in person, and when I want to use it online.
The company got greedy, and keeps proving it, they just wanted to make it so everyone has to buy their books a half dozen times to play, so they can keep making money over and over from the same person without providing new stuff. Remember, Curse of Strahd, Tomb of Annihilation, Out of the Abyss, were all campaigns in earlier editions, they didn't pay the creators again to reuse them, but they wanted everyone to pay at least three times more... once hard copy, once on dnd beyond, and once on the vtt you want to play it on (more if you will be playing it on multiple vtts).
I didn't say anywhere in my comment above that they shouldn't charge for digital content. A [Master Tier] Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts. This is true with one very important caveat, someone in the party must have purchased that content on the site. So it is not the same thing as one person buying a book and then multiple people using it to get free copies. What it is similar to is one player buying a book and sharing that one copy at a gaming table - while at the gaming table. Your shirt example is a false equivalency; none of the social media sites you mention sold you the shirt or even manufactured it, nor do they have digital tools to specifically use that shirt in any way. Also, each of the social media sites you mention profit from you engaging with the site in ways that are completely different from a business/profit perspective than WotC/DDB.
Oh, yes, all the members of a group... wait, that is already what you do. Literally. A DM Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts.
You seem to not understand what Copyright means... you can't sell the content to others, you can't claim you invented the content, you can't market the content for mass profit. You can share the content with your group, even copying pages at your own expense and distributing them... and, oh, yeah, thanks to the OGL, you can take a HUGE portion and reuse it, rework it, modify it, and market and sell that.
We literally just had a huge issue at the beginning of this year where WotC/HASBRO nearly lost all their customer base because they decided to breech the contracts they had made with their player base.
So, you're right, WotC/HASBRO should charge nothing for digital content, they get a monthly subscription fee from DMs and Players that want to be able to save other player's Homebrew Content (which, by the way, WotC/HASBRO get free unlimited access to and have to pay no royalties for, as part of membership, paid or unpaid, grants them the rights to use that content without paying a single royalty nor salary to the DM/Player that developed it for them, just like the don't have to pay a cent to the people who playtest for them, so they get the content from the Player Base for Free, the online content should be Free in return) to their accounts; and the free Players are limited to their own work and access to stuff shared within the campaigns they are participating (which they lose access to if they leave or are kicked), and can only have six characters at a time.
Why should someone who paid, literally hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars already to the company, have to pay again for the same product?
Ask yourself this. When you buy a shirt, do you have to rebuy it to wear it on Facebook, and on Twitter, and on Instagram, and again on TikTok? Or do you buy the shirt and have the right to wear it wherever and whenever you want, and loan it to you friend to wear for a party? Last time I checked, when I buy something, I own it in person, and when I want to use it online.
The company got greedy, and keeps proving it, they just wanted to make it so everyone has to buy their books a half dozen times to play, so they can keep making money over and over from the same person without providing new stuff. Remember, Curse of Strahd, Tomb of Annihilation, Out of the Abyss, were all campaigns in earlier editions, they didn't pay the creators again to reuse them, but they wanted everyone to pay at least three times more... once hard copy, once on dnd beyond, and once on the vtt you want to play it on (more if you will be playing it on multiple vtts).
I didn't say anywhere in my comment above that they shouldn't charge for digital content. A [Master Tier] Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts. This is true with one very important caveat, someone in the party must have purchased that content on the site. So it is not the same thing as one person buying a book and then multiple people using it to get free copies. What it is similar to is one player buying a book and sharing that one copy at a gaming table - while at the gaming table. Your shirt example is a false equivalency; none of the social media sites you mention sold you the shirt or even manufactured it, nor do they have digital tools to specifically use that shirt in any way. Also, each of the social media sites you mention profit from you engaging with the site in ways that are completely different from a business/profit perspective than WotC/DDB.
When you got to roll20, and want to wear the 'shirt' there, you have to pay a fee to wear the shirt on roll20, want to use the 'shirt' on owlbear, have to pay a fee to do it there too... that fee isn't roll20 or Owlbear making money, that fee is HASBRO/WotC getting paid money so the 'shirt' can be worn on their site... Stop making excuses, stop trying to defend the extreme corporate greed.
You didn't point out they shouldn't charge, you made the mistake of defending them and making it clear they shouldn't charge because they already are getting paid over and over and over and over again by the subscriptions. You are so busy trying to make excuses, you accidentally made a valid point that proved that they shouldn't be able to charge anything for digital copies. There is no service to be paid for, only the content, so anyone paying is paying for ALL the content to be accessible online... either what they own physically, at which point it is on WotC/HASBRO to make a system to verify, or All content since it is bound to the limitations of access only with a paid account and only limitedly sharable within a campaign. A Free Account doesn't pay, so can only access non-core stuff through a paid DM's campaign, just like a player with no books at a game table can only access the info from the DM's copies. But, a Paid account has paid to be able to access and share EVERYTHING. Either HASBRO/WotC Finds a Way to verify the books bought in physical format, or they supply all the content as part of the Monthly/Annual Subscription, since access is lost if the subscription defaults anyway, and they still get paid for every separate VTT someone wants to play there game on... the equivalent of getting paid again so the DM can play at each different store, house, church, community center, or restaurant that provides space for players to play games. When I go to IHOP, I don't have to buy my books again, nor do I at the Rec Center in my friend's neighborhood, nor do I at the game shop I run a Session at on Thursdays, nor do I when I play at my in-laws' house... yet, WotC gets paid again so you can play on Alchemy, Let's Role, Shard, Roll20, Foundry, Fantasy Grounds, and more... you have yet to explain any reason to get paid 8+ times, especially when we're talking potentially over $1000 each time.
Oh, yes, all the members of a group... wait, that is already what you do. Literally. A DM Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts.
You seem to not understand what Copyright means... you can't sell the content to others, you can't claim you invented the content, you can't market the content for mass profit. You can share the content with your group, even copying pages at your own expense and distributing them... and, oh, yeah, thanks to the OGL, you can take a HUGE portion and reuse it, rework it, modify it, and market and sell that.
We literally just had a huge issue at the beginning of this year where WotC/HASBRO nearly lost all their customer base because they decided to breech the contracts they had made with their player base.
So, you're right, WotC/HASBRO should charge nothing for digital content, they get a monthly subscription fee from DMs and Players that want to be able to save other player's Homebrew Content (which, by the way, WotC/HASBRO get free unlimited access to and have to pay no royalties for, as part of membership, paid or unpaid, grants them the rights to use that content without paying a single royalty nor salary to the DM/Player that developed it for them, just like the don't have to pay a cent to the people who playtest for them, so they get the content from the Player Base for Free, the online content should be Free in return) to their accounts; and the free Players are limited to their own work and access to stuff shared within the campaigns they are participating (which they lose access to if they leave or are kicked), and can only have six characters at a time.
Why should someone who paid, literally hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars already to the company, have to pay again for the same product?
Ask yourself this. When you buy a shirt, do you have to rebuy it to wear it on Facebook, and on Twitter, and on Instagram, and again on TikTok? Or do you buy the shirt and have the right to wear it wherever and whenever you want, and loan it to you friend to wear for a party? Last time I checked, when I buy something, I own it in person, and when I want to use it online.
The company got greedy, and keeps proving it, they just wanted to make it so everyone has to buy their books a half dozen times to play, so they can keep making money over and over from the same person without providing new stuff. Remember, Curse of Strahd, Tomb of Annihilation, Out of the Abyss, were all campaigns in earlier editions, they didn't pay the creators again to reuse them, but they wanted everyone to pay at least three times more... once hard copy, once on dnd beyond, and once on the vtt you want to play it on (more if you will be playing it on multiple vtts).
I didn't say anywhere in my comment above that they shouldn't charge for digital content. A [Master Tier] Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts. This is true with one very important caveat, someone in the party must have purchased that content on the site. So it is not the same thing as one person buying a book and then multiple people using it to get free copies. What it is similar to is one player buying a book and sharing that one copy at a gaming table - while at the gaming table. Your shirt example is a false equivalency; none of the social media sites you mention sold you the shirt or even manufactured it, nor do they have digital tools to specifically use that shirt in any way. Also, each of the social media sites you mention profit from you engaging with the site in ways that are completely different from a business/profit perspective than WotC/DDB.
When you got to roll20, and want to wear the 'shirt' there, you have to pay a fee to wear the shirt on roll20, want to use the 'shirt' on owlbear, have to pay a fee to do it there too... that fee isn't roll20 or Owlbear making money, that fee is HASBRO/WotC getting paid money so the 'shirt' can be worn on their site... Stop making excuses, stop trying to defend the extreme corporate greed.
You didn't point out they shouldn't charge, you made the mistake of defending them and making it clear they shouldn't charge because they already are getting paid over and over and over and over again by the subscriptions. You are so busy trying to make excuses, you accidentally made a valid point that proved that they shouldn't be able to charge anything for digital copies. There is no service to be paid for, only the content, so anyone paying is paying for ALL the content to be accessible online... either what they own physically, at which point it is on WotC/HASBRO to make a system to verify, or All content since it is bound to the limitations of access only with a paid account and only limitedly sharable within a campaign. A Free Account doesn't pay, so can only access non-core stuff through a paid DM's campaign, just like a player with no books at a game table can only access the info from the DM's copies. But, a Paid account has paid to be able to access and share EVERYTHING. Either HASBRO/WotC Finds a Way to verify the books bought in physical format, or they supply all the content as part of the Monthly/Annual Subscription, since access is lost if the subscription defaults anyway, and they still get paid for every separate VTT someone wants to play there game on... the equivalent of getting paid again so the DM can play at each different store, house, church, community center, or restaurant that provides space for players to play games. When I go to IHOP, I don't have to buy my books again, nor do I at the Rec Center in my friend's neighborhood, nor do I at the game shop I run a Session at on Thursdays, nor do I when I play at my in-laws' house... yet, WotC gets paid again so you can play on Alchemy, Let's Role, Shard, Roll20, Foundry, Fantasy Grounds, and more... you have yet to explain any reason to get paid 8+ times, especially when we're talking potentially over $1000 each time.
At no point did I make the point, accidentally or otherwise, that they shouldn't be able to charge anything for digital copies. Perhaps read my responses a little more carefully. A Master Tier account can share any content that any players in a group own, not just the DM or one specific player. In fact, most of the games I play in the majority of players are using free accounts and paying nothing. The model that DDB uses, whether you agree with it or not, is pretty clear and has been the same at least since I started using it. I'm not being an apologist, simply stating my understanding of the system and why I believe the system works the way that it does. It's abundantly clear that you disagree, and I doubt arguing this any further is going to change either of our minds.
Someone pops into a dead post that is literally one of hundreds of similar posts for their very first post and essentially calls WotC & their parent company a bunch of greedy ******** and argues they should give it away fro free for the umpteenth gazillion time, and folks think they need to answer that? *sigh* Fine.
But, really, they want something for nothing. That is all it comes down to. The hubris and sense of entitlement involved in such a request is not only common and ordinary and stunningly boring, it is something that they'd have to deal with even if they did offer everything for free but still had a subscription. It is just an excuse to bad mouth WotC, and some people are only happy when they do that -- if it wasn't cost, they would find something else.
If you feel that way strong enough, you can justify anything until you are blue in the face. But the forums don't change Hasbro or WotC policy. pulling a dead thread up isn't going to get their attention. It sure as hell ain't gonna change anything.
I am fine with the way things are. I don't feel ripped off by them at all. Which I can say even while I whine about things I don't like. If I did feel ripped off, well...
I wouldn't have subscription.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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I'm going to flip this and see if anyone who feels they are owed DDB for free can answer.
If DDB is the same as your physical book, so should be free, why do you want to use it? It's the same as the book you have, so you're not gaining anything by using DDB - so why do you want both?
If it's because DDB is providing you with a service and convenience that you do not get with your physical book, why do you think you should have that for free? Do you expect free upgrades to 1st class on flights because you bought a ticket too?
That is a large investment, and that should be enough to warrant the consideration to not double, triple, quadruple, and quintuple charge me for them, just because I want to use them in multiple places that I and my players play.
Or, to explain better, "DON'T PUNISH LOYAL CUSTOMERS BY TRYING TO BANKRUPT THEM!"
I am really trying to understand your argument. How is this any different than say a season pass to six flags not working at Disney?
The other VTT's are not D&D any more than six flags is Disney. Should this apply to all business, or just WotC?
WotC/HASBRO's physical books and D&D Beyond is not Disney vs Six Flags, it is Disneyland vs Disney World, when you buy a Season Pass it is to both, as well as Epcot, Star Wars Galexy's Edge, and Hollywood Studios (all are licensed Disney locals, either directly owned by Disney, or authorized by Disney to use their properties and content for a fee), and all are under the Season Pass, because they all are still Disney, not direct competitors... No, I don't expect you to be able to Play D&D in a Green Ronin Mutants & Mastermind's owned site (despite M&M being based heavily off the OGL), nor do I expect you to be able to play on a Paizo run site nor a Star Wars d20/Saga site (again, both heavily built off WotC's framework), and I especially don't expect to be able to access WotC content in a place running Fantasy Flight Games Star Wars (Very different system, using a different mechanic for nearly everything).
When someone pays Hundreds or Thousands of Dollars to have access to the content, then pays an additional $12-$120 a year to have the ability to use that content Online, they shouldn't have to pay again for every little thing they already purchased. DM buys Planescape Set for $60-80, they shouldn't have to buy it a second time to use it online so their players can make Planescape characters, then a third time to have access to the maps, creatures, and info on a VTT. They paid for the content, they are paying for the subscription to access that content online.
And Now, VTTs aren't other companies, they are Restaurants, Bookstores, Game Shops, Bars, and Community Centers that have paid to have access to the same content, sell the content for WotC, may allow people to use the content in their establishment, or allow people to bring their own in and sit down and use it in the establishment. When you buy a Disney DVD, you can play it on a Sony, Panasonic, or any other brand DVD player, you don't have to get the Disney Mickey Mouse Ear DVD Player, and you can take it to your friend's house and watch it there, or watch it with your family at home, or take it to school and play it for your class, or even have a Community Center Movie Night... once you buy the content, you have a right to use it where and when you want, you just can't go around and charge $20 a seat for people to watch the movie in a auditorium (and, actually, under the right circumstances, you can).
Someone pops into a dead post that is literally one of hundreds of similar posts for their very first post and essentially calls WotC & their parent company a bunch of greedy ******** and argues they should give it away fro free for the umpteenth gazillion time, and folks think they need to answer that? *sigh* Fine.
But, really, they want something for nothing. That is all it comes down to. The hubris and sense of entitlement involved in such a request is not only common and ordinary and stunningly boring, it is something that they'd have to deal with even if they did offer everything for free but still had a subscription. It is just an excuse to bad mouth WotC, and some people are only happy when they do that -- if it wasn't cost, they would find something else.
If you feel that way strong enough, you can justify anything until you are blue in the face. But the forums don't change Hasbro or WotC policy. pulling a dead thread up isn't going to get their attention. It sure as hell ain't gonna change anything.
I am fine with the way things are. I don't feel ripped off by them at all. Which I can say even while I whine about things I don't like. If I did feel ripped off, well...
I wouldn't have subscription.
I didn't complain until I had a subscription... when I was a free player, it was not my place to speak up, it was not my position to take, because I was not paying them for access online, I bought the books for physical use, and the price was fair for ownership. Then, I pay for a subscription, now I discover that I have to buy over $1000 of content a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and possibly 5th time, in addition to my annual subscription fee, because, despite me having a literal trunk full of WotC Products, that has literal caused me a shoulder injury from trying to carry it into in person meetups for games, I somehow can't have the same content be accessible on a tablet, laptop, or for my online games, which I need to be able to access on
I'm going to flip this and see if anyone who feels they are owed DDB for free can answer.
If DDB is the same as your physical book, so should be free, why do you want to use it? It's the same as the book you have, so you're not gaining anything by using DDB - so why do you want both?
If it's because DDB is providing you with a service and convenience that you do not get with your physical book, why do you think you should have that for free? Do you expect free upgrades to 1st class on flights because you bought a ticket too?
That is what the subscription fee is, the convenience to access the books in digital format... either I pay the subscription fee annually, or the digital format (which costs less than the physical version, because it costs nothing additional to produce, everything that was spent to make it was spent to make the physical version), not both, and if I pay for the digital version, that is it, a one time payment, which I can spend the money to print out and make a physical copy of my own.
If you pay for 1st class, you expect 1st class, not them to rebrand couch as 1st class and say, "This is what we decided was 1st class this week. Oh, and despite you paying for a seat with cushions, to travel on the 17th, first class, to Hawai'i, with a food and drinks... we're moving the flight to... um... how about next year, no seat, just a single lumpy pillow, to New Jersey, a bag of stale saltines, and glass of sour milk. We know you already paid, but despite you paying in full, we decide what you get and when you get it."
The online isn't a convenience, it is where some of my players are. I paid well over $1000 for their books, to own the content, so I can use it everywhere I choose. Then, I started paying a subscription fee, so I could access the content online... not to have the option to buy the books online and still have to pay the fee to access the books I bought online.
I am really trying to understand your argument. How is this any different than say a season pass to six flags not working at Disney?
The other VTT's are not D&D any more than six flags is Disney. Should this apply to all business, or just WotC?
WotC/HASBRO's physical books and D&D Beyond is not Disney vs Six Flags, it is Disneyland vs Disney World, when you buy a Season Pass it is to both, as well as Epcot, Star Wars Galexy's Edge, and Hollywood Studios (all are licensed Disney locals, either directly owned by Disney, or authorized by Disney to use their properties and content for a fee), and all are under the Season Pass, because they all are still Disney, not direct competitors... No, I don't expect you to be able to Play D&D in a Green Ronin Mutants & Mastermind's owned site (despite M&M being based heavily off the OGL), nor do I expect you to be able to play on a Paizo run site nor a Star Wars d20/Saga site (again, both heavily built off WotC's framework), and I especially don't expect to be able to access WotC content in a place running Fantasy Flight Games Star Wars (Very different system, using a different mechanic for nearly everything).
When someone pays Hundreds or Thousands of Dollars to have access to the content, then pays an additional $12-$120 a year to have the ability to use that content Online, they shouldn't have to pay again for every little thing they already purchased. DM buys Planescape Set for $60-80, they shouldn't have to buy it a second time to use it online so their players can make Planescape characters, then a third time to have access to the maps, creatures, and info on a VTT. They paid for the content, they are paying for the subscription to access that content online.
And Now, VTTs aren't other companies, they are Restaurants, Bookstores, Game Shops, Bars, and Community Centers that have paid to have access to the same content, sell the content for WotC, may allow people to use the content in their establishment, or allow people to bring their own in and sit down and use it in the establishment. When you buy a Disney DVD, you can play it on a Sony, Panasonic, or any other brand DVD player, you don't have to get the Disney Mickey Mouse Ear DVD Player, and you can take it to your friend's house and watch it there, or watch it with your family at home, or take it to school and play it for your class, or even have a Community Center Movie Night... once you buy the content, you have a right to use it where and when you want, you just can't go around and charge $20 a seat for people to watch the movie in a auditorium (and, actually, under the right circumstances, you can).
Someone pops into a dead post that is literally one of hundreds of similar posts for their very first post and essentially calls WotC & their parent company a bunch of greedy ******** and argues they should give it away fro free for the umpteenth gazillion time, and folks think they need to answer that? *sigh* Fine.
But, really, they want something for nothing. That is all it comes down to. The hubris and sense of entitlement involved in such a request is not only common and ordinary and stunningly boring, it is something that they'd have to deal with even if they did offer everything for free but still had a subscription. It is just an excuse to bad mouth WotC, and some people are only happy when they do that -- if it wasn't cost, they would find something else.
If you feel that way strong enough, you can justify anything until you are blue in the face. But the forums don't change Hasbro or WotC policy. pulling a dead thread up isn't going to get their attention. It sure as hell ain't gonna change anything.
I am fine with the way things are. I don't feel ripped off by them at all. Which I can say even while I whine about things I don't like. If I did feel ripped off, well...
I wouldn't have subscription.
I didn't complain until I had a subscription... when I was a free player, it was not my place to speak up, it was not my position to take, because I was not paying them for access online, I bought the books for physical use, and the price was fair for ownership. Then, I pay for a subscription, now I discover that I have to buy over $1000 of content a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and possibly 5th time, in addition to my annual subscription fee, because, despite me having a literal trunk full of WotC Products, that has literal caused me a shoulder injury from trying to carry it into in person meetups for games, I somehow can't have the same content be accessible on a tablet, laptop, or for my online games, which I need to be able to access on
IOW:
Someone pops into a dead post that is literally one of hundreds of similar posts for their very first post and essentially calls WotC & their parent company a bunch of greedy ******** and argues they should give it away fro free for the umpteenth gazillion time, and folks think they need to answer that? *sigh* Fine.
But, really, they want something for nothing. That is all it comes down to. The hubris and sense of entitlement involved in such a request is not only common and ordinary and stunningly boring, it is something that they'd have to deal with even if they did offer everything for free but still had a subscription. It is just an excuse to bad mouth WotC, and some people are only happy when they do that -- if it wasn't cost, they would find something else.
Thanks for being honest and admitting it.
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When you buy a Disney DVD, you can play it on a Sony, Panasonic, or any other brand DVD player, you don't have to get the Disney Mickey Mouse Ear DVD Player, and you can take it to your friend's house and watch it there, or watch it with your family at home, or take it to school and play it for your class, or even have a Community Center Movie Night... once you buy the content, you have a right to use it where and when you want, you just can't go around and charge $20 a seat for people to watch the movie in a auditorium (and, actually, under the right circumstances, you can).
I'm staying out of the analogies, except to say that you're wrong about the community center movie night one. Public performance rights are held by the copyright holder, not by the person who bought the dvd.
I didn't complain until I had a subscription... when I was a free player, it was not my place to speak up, it was not my position to take, because I was not paying them for access online, I bought the books for physical use, and the price was fair for ownership. Then, I pay for a subscription, now I discover that I have to buy over $1000 of content a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and possibly 5th time, in addition to my annual subscription fee, because, despite me having a literal trunk full of WotC Products, that has literal caused me a shoulder injury from trying to carry it into in person meetups for games, I somehow can't have the same content be accessible on a tablet, laptop, or for my online games, which I need to be able to access on
When you bought the book, you got exactly what WotC said you were getting. A book. (And the implied right to use it to pay the game within, under most circumstances -- AFAIK the question of whether public performance rights cover playing the game in public is a completely unlitigated area of copyright law.)
When you bought the subscription to DDB, you got exactly what it said you were getting.
Everything else you're arguing for is based on a legal relationship that just doesn't exist. WotC don't owe you anything to help you play the game in the book beyond the book itself.
Anything beyond that is firmly in the department of "it'd be nice if they did that".
This may make the DDB subscription not worth it for you. So it goes.
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Or they can skip your QR code innovation and move forward with what they're experimenting with on the Dragonlance book. That's the most amusing thing about this threads rejuvenation. WotC is doing/trying something about providing merged DDB/hardcopy products. But they're not going to do it retroactively, and they're likely going to use the next two years of 5e releases to experiment with what will work best for when One D&D comes out. Sort of like they experimented with Theros at its release, though that was on a much smaller scale.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Wizards move a lot of books through big stores (B&N, Target, etc.) too, and they won't be any happier with having unsalable or returned merchandise. (And there's also the "buy the book, scan the code, return the book" scam.)
Well.. now that DND beyond is owned by hasboro the main excuse is gone.
They don't need an excuse. They always could have done it, but decided not to. It might be easier now, but it was never an excuse. Will they change their mind? Maybe, maybe not. They decided not to do it in the past, and I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do it in the future. Their mentality so far suggests they won't. Not only are they not giving DDB access for free, they're basically selling the products with only a marginal discount at best that actually indicates that they want even more profit from the sales. In some regions, it actually costs more to do it through them.
I really wouldn't expect them to be doing free copies or anything close to it.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just saw that at least for Shadows of the Dragon Queen Wizards is offering a bundle for about $10 more than the paper book by itself (or $24 more than the dnd beyond book.) If you want the paper book and are getting the dnd beyond as a bonus its a decent deal. I don't know if it comes with a key that could be sold or if it is bought to a linked account. If it comes with a key and you only want the paper book then buying the bundle and selling the key would be the cheapest way to acquire the paper edition.
Got to say I still think people are going about this backwards.
They can't give you the digital copy if you have the hard copy, because there is no way of policing if you catually own the hard copy or not.
But, what they could do is sell a bundle on here - for a reduced combined deal-price, you get the DDB content and a physical book shipped to you.
And that's it - you have the DDb content, and a physical book, for a combined price which is cheaper than if you bought them both separately.
Also have no idea why being owned by Hasbro would affect this issue in the slightest!
Glad to see they are trying something to combine them though!
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Yeah that works fine.
In the store you can preview it and flip through it all you want. Have a couple copies on hand. Online you can get a PDF preview water marked.
Retroactively providing DDB access to content that isn't already bundled with digital content will not be done. There is no unique identifier for content that was and is sold in such a way.
Going forward, there are still technical hurdles, but they are working on it as seen with the digital/physical bundle offering.
If you want digital content bundled with physical content, you will need to wait for the one you want, but without a roadmap, the one you want might never be offered in such a way.
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Try this... when you buy the physical book, you bought the rights to use that content anywhere and everywhere you want, that was the contract WotC and HASBRO signed by selling you the book. When DDB was a separate entity owned by a separate company, the separate company had to provide a separate licensing fee to allow any and all users to access content, but that was because they were a toolbox that had a legal obligation to charge everyone to then pass on a cut to WotC/HASBRO. When DDB was bought out, the old company lost all future profits from all the people using their service, they don't get a royalty, they don't get a cut, but by doing so, WotC/HASBRO forfeited the separate entity clause, obligating them to grant access to the same content online that was bought in person, UNLESS they charge a greatly reduced amount for the Digital Version and grant those that own a physical copy a further reduced price (Physical Book $69, Digital Book $7, Digital Copy for owner of Physical Book $0.69 would be a fair amount) with image proof of possession (a selfie at home, in your vehicle, or even at the Post Office would be valid proof. Anywhere that could not be considered inside a potential distribution location), thereby not getting paid twice for the same product. The tiny fee for a Digital copy of a physical book is a digital unlock service fee, which basically is the cost of paying someone to confirm that the verification image or images are 1) the book being claimed and 2) physically owned and not at a distribution location, since someone can verify fairly quickly and go down a checklist, and then click a checkbox on the account to unlock all the content from all the books being claimed, each book taking far less than a minute, which means that at $0.70 a minute, they can pay someone $21/hr and make $21 for that same hour (60 minutes times $0.70 a minute is $42/hr... and that is presuming that actually takes the employee a full minute per book, when in actuality takes less than 10 seconds, meaning they can get 4-6 books checked a minute, the employee gets the $21 for the hour, and the company makes more than $21 profit for something they already actually sold, while still providing their customers the product they agreed to provide when they sold them the book the first time).
I think that saying that when you bought the physical book, "you bought the rights to use that content anywhere and everywhere you want, that was the contract WotC and HASBRO signed by selling you the book."is not correct. You gained the rights to a single physical copy of the copyrighted material for personal use, that's it. Using the content anywhere and everywhere you want isn't in any way implied, and in fact the copyright prevents that from being the case. You can't for example, use anything outside the SRD and redistribute it in any manner, regardless of whether or not you purchased any or all of the books.
Also, the photo/selfie idea probably wouldn't work, as I'm not sure what would stop people from having each member of their D&D group take a picture with the same book, just using different angles or areas of a house/apartment. Also, not sure each book would be far less than a minute (opening images which have to be connected to a particular account in some manner) plus the system needing to be designed and built. Also how do you clearly define what the parameters must be met in order for the photo to meet the standard of proof of ownership. But the main reason that they would not integrate such a system is that there is no need. Many users have demonstrated that if they want to use the site tools or have electronically searchable libraries, etc., they are willing to pay for it, whether they already own some or all of the books or not. For Hasbro/WotC and many of their customers the system isn't broken.
Oh, yes, all the members of a group... wait, that is already what you do. Literally. A DM Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts.
You seem to not understand what Copyright means... you can't sell the content to others, you can't claim you invented the content, you can't market the content for mass profit. You can share the content with your group, even copying pages at your own expense and distributing them... and, oh, yeah, thanks to the OGL, you can take a HUGE portion and reuse it, rework it, modify it, and market and sell that.
We literally just had a huge issue at the beginning of this year where WotC/HASBRO nearly lost all their customer base because they decided to breech the contracts they had made with their player base.
So, you're right, WotC/HASBRO should charge nothing for digital content, they get a monthly subscription fee from DMs and Players that want to be able to save other player's Homebrew Content (which, by the way, WotC/HASBRO get free unlimited access to and have to pay no royalties for, as part of membership, paid or unpaid, grants them the rights to use that content without paying a single royalty nor salary to the DM/Player that developed it for them, just like the don't have to pay a cent to the people who playtest for them, so they get the content from the Player Base for Free, the online content should be Free in return) to their accounts; and the free Players are limited to their own work and access to stuff shared within the campaigns they are participating (which they lose access to if they leave or are kicked), and can only have six characters at a time.
Why should someone who paid, literally hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars already to the company, have to pay again for the same product?
Ask yourself this. When you buy a shirt, do you have to rebuy it to wear it on Facebook, and on Twitter, and on Instagram, and again on TikTok? Or do you buy the shirt and have the right to wear it wherever and whenever you want, and loan it to you friend to wear for a party? Last time I checked, when I buy something, I own it in person, and when I want to use it online.
The company got greedy, and keeps proving it, they just wanted to make it so everyone has to buy their books a half dozen times to play, so they can keep making money over and over from the same person without providing new stuff. Remember, Curse of Strahd, Tomb of Annihilation, Out of the Abyss, were all campaigns in earlier editions, they didn't pay the creators again to reuse them, but they wanted everyone to pay at least three times more... once hard copy, once on dnd beyond, and once on the vtt you want to play it on (more if you will be playing it on multiple vtts).
You are correct, it is a paid membership that gives them monthly/annual recurring income that has nothing to do with any service provided, as the service is access to the content online that you paid specifically for again to have access to online... oh, and to save the homebrew content that was made by other players without compensation that they can turn around and add to official content and sell for profit both online and in physical format.
You are also correct about my solution. The real solution is they shouldn't be able to charge a single cent for the digital copies if someone is paying for a membership, and they should have a simple one-time use code that is printed on the receipt from the store the book was purchased from that grants free users access to the book in a digital format (like is already done for Digital copies, DLC, and pre-order content at stores for games, movies, comics, and other stuff).
I didn't say anywhere in my comment above that they shouldn't charge for digital content. A [Master Tier] Account shares all the content with every member of the group, even people with free accounts. This is true with one very important caveat, someone in the party must have purchased that content on the site. So it is not the same thing as one person buying a book and then multiple people using it to get free copies. What it is similar to is one player buying a book and sharing that one copy at a gaming table - while at the gaming table. Your shirt example is a false equivalency; none of the social media sites you mention sold you the shirt or even manufactured it, nor do they have digital tools to specifically use that shirt in any way. Also, each of the social media sites you mention profit from you engaging with the site in ways that are completely different from a business/profit perspective than WotC/DDB.
When you got to roll20, and want to wear the 'shirt' there, you have to pay a fee to wear the shirt on roll20, want to use the 'shirt' on owlbear, have to pay a fee to do it there too... that fee isn't roll20 or Owlbear making money, that fee is HASBRO/WotC getting paid money so the 'shirt' can be worn on their site... Stop making excuses, stop trying to defend the extreme corporate greed.
You didn't point out they shouldn't charge, you made the mistake of defending them and making it clear they shouldn't charge because they already are getting paid over and over and over and over again by the subscriptions. You are so busy trying to make excuses, you accidentally made a valid point that proved that they shouldn't be able to charge anything for digital copies. There is no service to be paid for, only the content, so anyone paying is paying for ALL the content to be accessible online... either what they own physically, at which point it is on WotC/HASBRO to make a system to verify, or All content since it is bound to the limitations of access only with a paid account and only limitedly sharable within a campaign. A Free Account doesn't pay, so can only access non-core stuff through a paid DM's campaign, just like a player with no books at a game table can only access the info from the DM's copies. But, a Paid account has paid to be able to access and share EVERYTHING. Either HASBRO/WotC Finds a Way to verify the books bought in physical format, or they supply all the content as part of the Monthly/Annual Subscription, since access is lost if the subscription defaults anyway, and they still get paid for every separate VTT someone wants to play there game on... the equivalent of getting paid again so the DM can play at each different store, house, church, community center, or restaurant that provides space for players to play games. When I go to IHOP, I don't have to buy my books again, nor do I at the Rec Center in my friend's neighborhood, nor do I at the game shop I run a Session at on Thursdays, nor do I when I play at my in-laws' house... yet, WotC gets paid again so you can play on Alchemy, Let's Role, Shard, Roll20, Foundry, Fantasy Grounds, and more... you have yet to explain any reason to get paid 8+ times, especially when we're talking potentially over $1000 each time.
At no point did I make the point, accidentally or otherwise, that they shouldn't be able to charge anything for digital copies. Perhaps read my responses a little more carefully. A Master Tier account can share any content that any players in a group own, not just the DM or one specific player. In fact, most of the games I play in the majority of players are using free accounts and paying nothing. The model that DDB uses, whether you agree with it or not, is pretty clear and has been the same at least since I started using it. I'm not being an apologist, simply stating my understanding of the system and why I believe the system works the way that it does. It's abundantly clear that you disagree, and I doubt arguing this any further is going to change either of our minds.
So, let me get this straight...
Someone pops into a dead post that is literally one of hundreds of similar posts for their very first post and essentially calls WotC & their parent company a bunch of greedy ******** and argues they should give it away fro free for the umpteenth gazillion time, and folks think they need to answer that? *sigh* Fine.
But, really, they want something for nothing. That is all it comes down to. The hubris and sense of entitlement involved in such a request is not only common and ordinary and stunningly boring, it is something that they'd have to deal with even if they did offer everything for free but still had a subscription. It is just an excuse to bad mouth WotC, and some people are only happy when they do that -- if it wasn't cost, they would find something else.
If you feel that way strong enough, you can justify anything until you are blue in the face. But the forums don't change Hasbro or WotC policy. pulling a dead thread up isn't going to get their attention. It sure as hell ain't gonna change anything.
I am fine with the way things are. I don't feel ripped off by them at all. Which I can say even while I whine about things I don't like. If I did feel ripped off, well...
I wouldn't have subscription.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I'm going to flip this and see if anyone who feels they are owed DDB for free can answer.
If DDB is the same as your physical book, so should be free, why do you want to use it? It's the same as the book you have, so you're not gaining anything by using DDB - so why do you want both?
If it's because DDB is providing you with a service and convenience that you do not get with your physical book, why do you think you should have that for free? Do you expect free upgrades to 1st class on flights because you bought a ticket too?
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Let's see if I can explain.
That is a large investment, and that should be enough to warrant the consideration to not double, triple, quadruple, and quintuple charge me for them, just because I want to use them in multiple places that I and my players play.
Or, to explain better, "DON'T PUNISH LOYAL CUSTOMERS BY TRYING TO BANKRUPT THEM!"
WotC/HASBRO's physical books and D&D Beyond is not Disney vs Six Flags, it is Disneyland vs Disney World, when you buy a Season Pass it is to both, as well as Epcot, Star Wars Galexy's Edge, and Hollywood Studios (all are licensed Disney locals, either directly owned by Disney, or authorized by Disney to use their properties and content for a fee), and all are under the Season Pass, because they all are still Disney, not direct competitors... No, I don't expect you to be able to Play D&D in a Green Ronin Mutants & Mastermind's owned site (despite M&M being based heavily off the OGL), nor do I expect you to be able to play on a Paizo run site nor a Star Wars d20/Saga site (again, both heavily built off WotC's framework), and I especially don't expect to be able to access WotC content in a place running Fantasy Flight Games Star Wars (Very different system, using a different mechanic for nearly everything).
When someone pays Hundreds or Thousands of Dollars to have access to the content, then pays an additional $12-$120 a year to have the ability to use that content Online, they shouldn't have to pay again for every little thing they already purchased. DM buys Planescape Set for $60-80, they shouldn't have to buy it a second time to use it online so their players can make Planescape characters, then a third time to have access to the maps, creatures, and info on a VTT. They paid for the content, they are paying for the subscription to access that content online.
And Now, VTTs aren't other companies, they are Restaurants, Bookstores, Game Shops, Bars, and Community Centers that have paid to have access to the same content, sell the content for WotC, may allow people to use the content in their establishment, or allow people to bring their own in and sit down and use it in the establishment. When you buy a Disney DVD, you can play it on a Sony, Panasonic, or any other brand DVD player, you don't have to get the Disney Mickey Mouse Ear DVD Player, and you can take it to your friend's house and watch it there, or watch it with your family at home, or take it to school and play it for your class, or even have a Community Center Movie Night... once you buy the content, you have a right to use it where and when you want, you just can't go around and charge $20 a seat for people to watch the movie in a auditorium (and, actually, under the right circumstances, you can).
I didn't complain until I had a subscription... when I was a free player, it was not my place to speak up, it was not my position to take, because I was not paying them for access online, I bought the books for physical use, and the price was fair for ownership. Then, I pay for a subscription, now I discover that I have to buy over $1000 of content a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and possibly 5th time, in addition to my annual subscription fee, because, despite me having a literal trunk full of WotC Products, that has literal caused me a shoulder injury from trying to carry it into in person meetups for games, I somehow can't have the same content be accessible on a tablet, laptop, or for my online games, which I need to be able to access on
That is what the subscription fee is, the convenience to access the books in digital format... either I pay the subscription fee annually, or the digital format (which costs less than the physical version, because it costs nothing additional to produce, everything that was spent to make it was spent to make the physical version), not both, and if I pay for the digital version, that is it, a one time payment, which I can spend the money to print out and make a physical copy of my own.
If you pay for 1st class, you expect 1st class, not them to rebrand couch as 1st class and say, "This is what we decided was 1st class this week. Oh, and despite you paying for a seat with cushions, to travel on the 17th, first class, to Hawai'i, with a food and drinks... we're moving the flight to... um... how about next year, no seat, just a single lumpy pillow, to New Jersey, a bag of stale saltines, and glass of sour milk. We know you already paid, but despite you paying in full, we decide what you get and when you get it."
The online isn't a convenience, it is where some of my players are. I paid well over $1000 for their books, to own the content, so I can use it everywhere I choose. Then, I started paying a subscription fee, so I could access the content online... not to have the option to buy the books online and still have to pay the fee to access the books I bought online.
IOW:
Someone pops into a dead post that is literally one of hundreds of similar posts for their very first post and essentially calls WotC & their parent company a bunch of greedy ******** and argues they should give it away fro free for the umpteenth gazillion time, and folks think they need to answer that? *sigh* Fine.
But, really, they want something for nothing. That is all it comes down to. The hubris and sense of entitlement involved in such a request is not only common and ordinary and stunningly boring, it is something that they'd have to deal with even if they did offer everything for free but still had a subscription. It is just an excuse to bad mouth WotC, and some people are only happy when they do that -- if it wasn't cost, they would find something else.
Thanks for being honest and admitting it.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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I'm staying out of the analogies, except to say that you're wrong about the community center movie night one. Public performance rights are held by the copyright holder, not by the person who bought the dvd.
When you bought the book, you got exactly what WotC said you were getting. A book. (And the implied right to use it to pay the game within, under most circumstances -- AFAIK the question of whether public performance rights cover playing the game in public is a completely unlitigated area of copyright law.)
When you bought the subscription to DDB, you got exactly what it said you were getting.
Everything else you're arguing for is based on a legal relationship that just doesn't exist. WotC don't owe you anything to help you play the game in the book beyond the book itself.
Anything beyond that is firmly in the department of "it'd be nice if they did that".
This may make the DDB subscription not worth it for you. So it goes.