I just recently started Dungeons & Dragons, and so far I have only been a Dungeon Master. I have been hosting sessions for only about six months. However; I recently started a new campaign for a group of people who have played before, I have also included a couple friends that I started out D&D with.
However, two players in the group I am currently running have been hard to deal with. The two main problems are that they constantly undermine the team and backstab each other, and they consistently determine the party’s choices; while afterwards the rest of the party controls the damage.
The rest of this post is really long, and I apologize. I understand if you don’t want to read the whole thing. I put a quick summary at the end as well.
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I didn’t think it was anything to worry about at first, since it was just between these two players mainly (a barbarian and rogue). The Barbarian attempted to kill the Rogue, then the Rogue sent assassins after the Barbarian. They eventually started targeting other players though. While everyone slept, the Barbarian stole all their gold and items important to their bonds. The Rogue then stole those and sold them on the blackmarket.
I still did not see this as a problem, as I thought having players of different alignments would lead to inevitable conflict which was okay. However, my two friends were not okay with them driving the story. They both had higher level characters since they had been playing D&D longer. They were CG and CN, while the Barbarian and Rogue were evil.
My two friends (a Warlock and Fighter) planned to form a vigilante group. They wanted to charm person the Barbarian, have him kill the Rogue (who was prone to fleeing), then finish off the Barbarian. They then planned to kill anyone else who joined the fight. After the fight they planned to raise their dead bodies, and then use them to guard a garrison they would build.
I felt that this was somewhat extreme, and I did not know how the players that used the Barbarian and Rogue would feel, since I did not know the other people in the group that personally. I thought that the majority of the group (which were friends of the Barbarian and Rogue) would defend them when my friends killed them.
So, instead I planned an entirely new campaign. I thought if everyone made new characters, then the tension would die down. I said I would prefer if all the characters were good, or at the very least CN. Instead the Barbarian created the same character, same alignment. Most created LN or CG.
My two friends made their characters a Ranger and Fighter. At the beginning of the campaign, I had the players own an estate in a village (hoping it would give them incentive to guard the village from an evil wizard). The Ranger had a mentor that offered the entire party an adventure hook, and offered them lots of gold. The entire party seemed exicted, many of them wanted to warn the king of the evil wizard as soon as possible.
The Barbian instead all out attacked the quest giver. The party had knock him out, and carry him along before he killed anyone else. The party traveled for two days until they came close an abandoned farmstead. I had an encounter planned for the entire party here, but the Barbarian rushed in wanting to raid the farm house.
Once he got in, he wanted to collect the heads of dead bodies he found. As he did scarecrows attacked him. As I narrorated it, the other players said their characters felt tempted to sit back and watch as the scarecrows fought him (thinking this was supposed to be a repercussion).
They eventually realized it was a planned encounter, and jumped in to get EXP. After the battle, the Barbarian complained that I did that b/c he was CE. One of my friends (a Cleric) defended me by mentioning that my Monster Manual was already open to the scarecrows, showing I had been planning this (I usually keep it on a table to the side, open for my next encounter).
Some players that were not really affected by his actions seemed okay with all of this. Eventually half the group had to leave; leaving me, two of my friends (Ranger and Fighter), the Barbarian, and a guy who knew him pretty well (a Paladin).
The tension started to rise again when the Paladin suggested they leave the haunted farmhouse to rest in the woods before they explored it in the morning. The Barbarian said he felt safer in the farmhouse. The players left to sleep in tents in the woods. The Ranger and Fighter felt pretty confident the Barbarian was planning something. They slept in trees.
Sure enough; while everyonelse was asleep, the Barbarian woke up and stole all their gold and valuables. The players woke up and realized that their stuff was gone. They did multiple perception checks to search for it. The paladin rolled a natural 20, so I said that he noticed that the Barbarian’s gold pouch was somewhat large.
The Paladin and Barbarian argued a bit out of character, and in character about the gold. The Ranger eventually did a DEX check to shoot the gold bag from the Barbarian’s belt. He succeeded, and the Barbarian and Paladin raced after it. The Ranger shot the Barbarian to slow him down, dealing damage.
The Barbarian took offense to this, and grabbed the gold bag and drank a healing potion. He challenged the Ranger to one-on-one combat, claiming he would kill his character. The Ranger agreed to this, and they fought. The Ranger used pretty good strategy and knocked the Barbarian out. The Paladin tied the Barbarian up, and he wanted to punish him. The Fighter talked him out of it.
The Barbarian expressed that he was upset since no one tried to stop him before (out of character). The Fighter argued that he had caused player conflict, so now they would fight back.
The Barbarian did a STR check to break free of his bonds. He said they should take a long rest after the fight. As everyone rested, the Barbarian went into the farmhouse. He found the evil mage (not the one they were after, this was a side quest) they were after, that had attacked them with the scarecrows before.
He teamed up with him. The players woke up, and they decided to go after their bounty. They traveled down into the cellar to find the Barbarian working with the evil mage.
A fight broke out where the Ranger used Hunter’s Mark on the Barbarian, and the Thistle arrows to pick them both off. The paladin smited the mage, but was knocked unconcious in one hit. The fighter stabilized him. The Ranged eventually killed the mage, and he knocked the Barbarian unconcious.
The Paladin wanted to execute the Barbarian, and the Ranger was for it this time. The Fighter convinced him not to. That is where our first session ended.
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So, in conclusion the Barbarian has been causing conflict between the party, both in and out of character. His actions prevent the story from flowing, since he kills every NPC and attacks players.
Two of my friends expressed that they did not like playing the campaign because of this. I am uncertain about talking to him directly, because most of the group members also know him well, and I do not know most of the group personally. I enjoy DMing, but it can be frustrating when your story does not develop due to one character killing everyone, and causing party conflict. The story becomes one of raiding, while the other players complain about too much combat and not enough roleplaying, and I feel the story gets completely sidetracked (I can be flexible with the story, but it is hard when every person giving a quest is dead).
So what are your opinions on how to deal with this kind of player?
However, two players in the group I am currently running have been hard to deal with. The two main problems are that they constantly undermine the team and backstab each other, and they consistently determine the party’s choices; while afterwards the rest of the party controls the damage.
I didn't read the entire OP because I've read these kinds of things before and my advice is always the same: is everyone, including you, having fun? If no, then talk to everyone about it. If that doesn't resolve it, kick disruptive player. If that isn't possible, find new group.
One solution: Have an encounter where both the Rogue and Barbarian are being attacked by significantly skilled assassins or sellswords, hired by a family member of a prior NPC they probably killed (assume they are murder hobos too). The battle should be significant enough to guarantee their death. The other party members are knocked unconscious or put to sleep or on another mission, so don't get involved. Then, when you tell them they can re-roll a character, it has to be an alignment of neutral-good or lawful-good, and they have to play their characters that way or the character comes down with one level of exhaustion (guilt) every time they commit an evil act. The only way to remove one level of exhaustion (guilt) is to make amends with a good and noble act that more than offsets the evil act.
Either that or get some balls and tell them to play as a team or find a new group.
I haven't been the DM in this situation, but I have been a player on the receiving end of players like this a few times.
Two of your players aren't having fun. To me, that is enough to bring it up to the Barbarian. Especially if you're not enjoying this. A reluctant DM is almost worse than a reluctant player to me. My opinion: Tell him that he is taking the fun out of the game for people in the group and he needs to rein it in. If that requires a new character you have to approve before-hand then so be it. DnD Characters are what my group calls "Professional Murder Hobos" for a reason, but there is always a line someone can cross. Player PvP is also very tricky to pull off, especially if only one person wants it and everyone else is against it. In situations like that I personally have never seen it end well between characters and it almost always creates bad blood between the players. It sounds like the group is to the point their characters have zero reason to keep his Barbarian around anyway. I know if someone stole all my stuff and then allied with an evil wizard, I'd be done with them. Especially if this was the second character they did this with.
You might need to remind the Barbarian player this is a co-op game not PvP, and they need to treat it like that. Evil or PvP campaigns have their place, but everyone has to agree on playing that campaign beforehand. Also, you need to remember you're not just the DM; you're a player at the table too. When players sit down at the table they silently agree to respect all other players at the table. And the you are a player.
Random unsolicited advice I've learned as a DM/Player: 1: DnD is, unfortunately, one of those games where one player can ruin it for everyone else. Your job as the DM is to make sure that doesn't happen. 2: DMs often forget that they are players at their table too and that they should be having fun. Let the professionals suffer for their art, you should be able to enjoy your game. 3: Players want different things from campaigns so ask your players what they want from a campaign before starting. Some players want to be murder hobos, some want to be heroes. 4: Character Conflict and Player Conflict are very different beasts. Character Conflict can make a campaign great, but Player Conflict can ruin a great campaign.
I just recently started Dungeons & Dragons, and so far I have only been a Dungeon Master. I have been hosting sessions for only about six months. However; I recently started a new campaign for a group of people who have played before, I have also included a couple friends that I started out D&D with.
However, two players in the group I am currently running have been hard to deal with. The two main problems are that they constantly undermine the team and backstab each other, and they consistently determine the party’s choices; while afterwards the rest of the party controls the damage.
The rest of this post is really long, and I apologize. I understand if you don’t want to read the whole thing. I put a quick summary at the end as well.
—�—�—
I didn’t think it was anything to worry about at first, since it was just between these two players mainly (a barbarian and rogue). The Barbarian attempted to kill the Rogue, then the Rogue sent assassins after the Barbarian. They eventually started targeting other players though. While everyone slept, the Barbarian stole all their gold and items important to their bonds. The Rogue then stole those and sold them on the blackmarket.
I still did not see this as a problem, as I thought having players of different alignments would lead to inevitable conflict which was okay. However, my two friends were not okay with them driving the story. They both had higher level characters since they had been playing D&D longer. They were CG and CN, while the Barbarian and Rogue were evil.
My two friends (a Warlock and Fighter) planned to form a vigilante group. They wanted to charm person the Barbarian, have him kill the Rogue (who was prone to fleeing), then finish off the Barbarian. They then planned to kill anyone else who joined the fight. After the fight they planned to raise their dead bodies, and then use them to guard a garrison they would build.
I felt that this was somewhat extreme, and I did not know how the players that used the Barbarian and Rogue would feel, since I did not know the other people in the group that personally. I thought that the majority of the group (which were friends of the Barbarian and Rogue) would defend them when my friends killed them.
So, instead I planned an entirely new campaign. I thought if everyone made new characters, then the tension would die down. I said I would prefer if all the characters were good, or at the very least CN. Instead the Barbarian created the same character, same alignment. Most created LN or CG.
My two friends made their characters a Ranger and Fighter. At the beginning of the campaign, I had the players own an estate in a village (hoping it would give them incentive to guard the village from an evil wizard). The Ranger had a mentor that offered the entire party an adventure hook, and offered them lots of gold. The entire party seemed exicted, many of them wanted to warn the king of the evil wizard as soon as possible.
The Barbian instead all out attacked the quest giver. The party had knock him out, and carry him along before he killed anyone else. The party traveled for two days until they came close an abandoned farmstead. I had an encounter planned for the entire party here, but the Barbarian rushed in wanting to raid the farm house.
Once he got in, he wanted to collect the heads of dead bodies he found. As he did scarecrows attacked him. As I narrorated it, the other players said their characters felt tempted to sit back and watch as the scarecrows fought him (thinking this was supposed to be a repercussion).
They eventually realized it was a planned encounter, and jumped in to get EXP. After the battle, the Barbarian complained that I did that b/c he was CE. One of my friends (a Cleric) defended me by mentioning that my Monster Manual was already open to the scarecrows, showing I had been planning this (I usually keep it on a table to the side, open for my next encounter).
Some players that were not really affected by his actions seemed okay with all of this. Eventually half the group had to leave; leaving me, two of my friends (Ranger and Fighter), the Barbarian, and a guy who knew him pretty well (a Paladin).
The tension started to rise again when the Paladin suggested they leave the haunted farmhouse to rest in the woods before they explored it in the morning. The Barbarian said he felt safer in the farmhouse. The players left to sleep in tents in the woods. The Ranger and Fighter felt pretty confident the Barbarian was planning something. They slept in trees.
Sure enough; while everyonelse was asleep, the Barbarian woke up and stole all their gold and valuables. The players woke up and realized that their stuff was gone. They did multiple perception checks to search for it. The paladin rolled a natural 20, so I said that he noticed that the Barbarian’s gold pouch was somewhat large.
The Paladin and Barbarian argued a bit out of character, and in character about the gold. The Ranger eventually did a DEX check to shoot the gold bag from the Barbarian’s belt. He succeeded, and the Barbarian and Paladin raced after it. The Ranger shot the Barbarian to slow him down, dealing damage.
The Barbarian took offense to this, and grabbed the gold bag and drank a healing potion. He challenged the Ranger to one-on-one combat, claiming he would kill his character. The Ranger agreed to this, and they fought. The Ranger used pretty good strategy and knocked the Barbarian out. The Paladin tied the Barbarian up, and he wanted to punish him. The Fighter talked him out of it.
The Barbarian expressed that he was upset since no one tried to stop him before (out of character). The Fighter argued that he had caused player conflict, so now they would fight back.
The Barbarian did a STR check to break free of his bonds. He said they should take a long rest after the fight. As everyone rested, the Barbarian went into the farmhouse. He found the evil mage (not the one they were after, this was a side quest) they were after, that had attacked them with the scarecrows before.
He teamed up with him. The players woke up, and they decided to go after their bounty. They traveled down into the cellar to find the Barbarian working with the evil mage.
A fight broke out where the Ranger used Hunter’s Mark on the Barbarian, and the Thistle arrows to pick them both off. The paladin smited the mage, but was knocked unconcious in one hit. The fighter stabilized him. The Ranged eventually killed the mage, and he knocked the Barbarian unconcious.
The Paladin wanted to execute the Barbarian, and the Ranger was for it this time. The Fighter convinced him not to. That is where our first session ended.
—�—�—
So, in conclusion the Barbarian has been causing conflict between the party, both in and out of character. His actions prevent the story from flowing, since he kills every NPC and attacks players.
Two of my friends expressed that they did not like playing the campaign because of this. I am uncertain about talking to him directly, because most of the group members also know him well, and I do not know most of the group personally. I enjoy DMing, but it can be frustrating when your story does not develop due to one character killing everyone, and causing party conflict. The story becomes one of raiding, while the other players complain about too much combat and not enough roleplaying, and I feel the story gets completely sidetracked (I can be flexible with the story, but it is hard when every person giving a quest is dead).
So what are your opinions on how to deal with this kind of player?
What I would do is give up on trying to turn the bad guy good and start running a CE campaign.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
One solution: Have an encounter where both the Rogue and Barbarian are being attacked by significantly skilled assassins or sellswords, hired by a family member of a prior NPC they probably killed (assume they are murder hobos too). The battle should be significant enough to guarantee their death. The other party members are knocked unconscious or put to sleep or on another mission, so don't get involved. Then, when you tell them they can re-roll a character, it has to be an alignment of neutral-good or lawful-good, and they have to play their characters that way or the character comes down with one level of exhaustion (guilt) every time they commit an evil act. The only way to remove one level of exhaustion (guilt) is to make amends with a good and noble act that more than offsets the evil act.
Either that or get some balls and tell them to play as a team or find a new group.
I haven't been the DM in this situation, but I have been a player on the receiving end of players like this a few times.
Two of your players aren't having fun. To me, that is enough to bring it up to the Barbarian. Especially if you're not enjoying this. A reluctant DM is almost worse than a reluctant player to me. My opinion: Tell him that he is taking the fun out of the game for people in the group and he needs to rein it in. If that requires a new character you have to approve before-hand then so be it. DnD Characters are what my group calls "Professional Murder Hobos" for a reason, but there is always a line someone can cross. Player PvP is also very tricky to pull off, especially if only one person wants it and everyone else is against it. In situations like that I personally have never seen it end well between characters and it almost always creates bad blood between the players. It sounds like the group is to the point their characters have zero reason to keep his Barbarian around anyway. I know if someone stole all my stuff and then allied with an evil wizard, I'd be done with them. Especially if this was the second character they did this with.
You might need to remind the Barbarian player this is a co-op game not PvP, and they need to treat it like that. Evil or PvP campaigns have their place, but everyone has to agree on playing that campaign beforehand. Also, you need to remember you're not just the DM; you're a player at the table too. When players sit down at the table they silently agree to respect all other players at the table. And the you are a player.
Random unsolicited advice I've learned as a DM/Player:
1: DnD is, unfortunately, one of those games where one player can ruin it for everyone else. Your job as the DM is to make sure that doesn't happen.
2: DMs often forget that they are players at their table too and that they should be having fun. Let the professionals suffer for their art, you should be able to enjoy your game.
3: Players want different things from campaigns so ask your players what they want from a campaign before starting. Some players want to be murder hobos, some want to be heroes.
4: Character Conflict and Player Conflict are very different beasts. Character Conflict can make a campaign great, but Player Conflict can ruin a great campaign.
Sorry this was so long.