Ambiguous language aside, it's been clarified by the head designer. If your interpretation was different, so be it, but given that we have a clarification there's really no point in arguing what the words in Tasha's supposedly say. We know what they're meant to say. "Full control" doesn't include getting to pick an official race to belong to for mechanical purposes. If you want to use Custom Lineage and think of your character as an elf, that's perfectly fine - but for mechanical purposes, by the rules, it's not one.
Thank you for clarifying the RAI. I believe we were discussing RAW.
The RAW are ambiguous (apparently). The RAI clarify the ambiguity.
We're not talking about a rules change (erratum) here. The RAI are the same as the RAW in this instance. They're not the same as your interpretation of the RAW, but that just means your interpretation is incorrect - not the RAW themselves.
So your position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that doesn't have ANY race whatsoever, yet is of a lineage.
Then your RAW is wrong. You can't be from a lineage and not have a race. That doesn't even make any sense at all. It is gibberish.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The option should have been called "Custom Origin", yes. Because you can absolutely have an 'Origin' without having a species/race/lineage/what-have-you. Nor does your current species have to match what you originated as - Widowgast's Transmogrification exists now, and before it Reincarnate. To say nothing of all the cursed bloodline options halfway embodied in the Gothic Lineages. Again, 'Origin' would be a better word than 'Lineage', but the word 'Lineage' could also refer to what you are now, i.e. the 'Lineage' you can start.
I would appreciate if we took some time to stop and read everyone else's posts, the constant back and forth clutters the forum up with a ton of things that have already been said in the past 5 minutes alone, and reloading constantly to keep up with the constant influx of messages is highly annoying.
CL isn't really meant as a 'nebulous non-entity non-race' option
It's meant to cover unique edge cases. One of my friend's favorite Eternal Backup characters is a haunted doll created by a lich to be his personal lab assistant/daughter-analogue, right up until the lich is killed and the doll taken away to learn Adventuring by the Adventurers who killed her undead daddy. Previously he had to write up a homebrew species for Wertvoll, which automatically disbarred her from ninety-eight percent of all D&D games. Now? That doll could theoretically be Custom Lineage'd to allow Maker to run her in a stricter game.
That's what Custom Lineage is for - bizarre one-offs that don't otherwise have a place. Are you a haunted doll? Are you a kitchenware golem (a legit character I've seen, and it is far more terrifying than you're thinking)? Are you an Awakened [insert whatever dumbass thing some idjit player decided to Awaken here]? Are you whatever the hell Rayman is? Are you as fashion mannequin possessed by the costume of Macho Man Randy Savage? CL can give you a foot in the door. The rest is up to your ability to impress the DM and the rest of your group by managing to turn the character into something Special, instead of just a weird joke.
Using a warforged as a stand-in for anything animated is probably a better fit than the CL is. A doll wouldn't even have a lineage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ambiguous language aside, it's been clarified by the head designer. If your interpretation was different, so be it, but given that we have a clarification there's really no point in arguing what the words in Tasha's supposedly say. We know what they're meant to say. "Full control" doesn't include getting to pick an official race to belong to for mechanical purposes. If you want to use Custom Lineage and think of your character as an elf, that's perfectly fine - but for mechanical purposes, by the rules, it's not one.
Thank you for clarifying the RAI. I believe we were discussing RAW.
The RAW are ambiguous (apparently). The RAI clarify the ambiguity.
We're not talking about a rules change (erratum) here. The RAI are the same as the RAW in this instance. They're not the same as your interpretation of the RAW, but that just means your interpretation is incorrect - not the RAW themselves.
So your position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that doesn't have ANY race whatsoever, yet is of a lineage.
Then your RAW is wrong. You can't be from a lineage and not have a race. That doesn't even make any sense at all. It is gibberish.
No, that's not my position. Everyone has a race they belong to (possibly even more than one), just like everyone has a lineage. My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has "Custom Lineage" [or insert whatever name the creator of the character might have in mind for this here] for race.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No, that's not my position. Everyone has a race they belong to (possibly even more than one), just like everyone has a lineage. My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has "Custom Lineage" [or insert whatever name the creator of the character might have in mind for this here] for race.
^this
Note, the rules-as-written don't actually say that whatever-name-you-give-it counts as official. E.g. if you call it "Elf (custom)" it still doesn't count as a type of "Elf," mechanically.
No, that's not my position. Everyone has a race they belong to (possibly even more than one), just like everyone has a lineage. My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has "Custom Lineage" [or insert whatever name the creator of the character might have in mind for this here] for race.
^this
Note, the rules-as-written don't actually say that whatever-name-you-give-it counts as official. E.g. if you call it "Elf (custom)" it still doesn't count as a type of "Elf," mechanically.
So what race is a Mountain Elf created using the Custom Lineage?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has [Mountain Elf] for race.
I followed your instructions.
Sofistry aside, you calling something "X" doesn't make it "X" for game purposes. Calling my sheep a ship won't let me sail across the seven seas on it either.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
No, that's not my position. Everyone has a race they belong to (possibly even more than one), just like everyone has a lineage. My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has "Custom Lineage" [or insert whatever name the creator of the character might have in mind for this here] for race.
^this
Note, the rules-as-written don't actually say that whatever-name-you-give-it counts as official. E.g. if you call it "Elf (custom)" it still doesn't count as a type of "Elf," mechanically.
So what race is a Mountain Elf created using the Custom Lineage?
Mechanically speaking, they are the "Custom Lineage" race. That's even how it gets listed in dndbeyond.
Narratively speaking, they are a Mountain Elf or whatever.
There is a switch, something like "ignore prequisites for feats," in dndbeyond, that allows racial feats to be taken with Custom Lineage. It's pretty clear that's a potential house rule.
My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has [Mountain Elf] for race.
I followed your instructions.
Sofistry aside, you calling something "X" doesn't make it "X" for game purposes. Calling my sheep a ship won't let me sail across the seven seas on it either.
It isn't sophistry it is driving at the heart of the disagreement. What race is this guy?? Apparently by RAW he doesn't have one? Yet, if so, that is a nonsensical answer. If that is the RAW then it is really bad RAW. Every character has a race except this one? Just an empty void of classification.
Quite frankly, if you parse a Mountain Elf custom lineage as not an Elf, then either you are wrong, or the game is wrong. I think it is easier to say that forum posters are wrong about it, because otherwise the game went and broke itself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has [Mountain Elf] for race.
I followed your instructions.
Sofistry aside, you calling something "X" doesn't make it "X" for game purposes. Calling my sheep a ship won't let me sail across the seven seas on it either.
1) It isn't sophistry it is driving at the heart of the disagreement. What race is this guy?? Apparently by RAW he doesn't have one? Yet, if so, that is a nonsensical answer. If that is the RAW then it is really bad RAW. Every character has a race except this one? Just an empty void of classification.
2) Quite frankly, if you parse a Mountain Elf custom lineage as not an Elf, then either you are wrong, or the game is wrong. I think it is easier to say that forum posters are wrong about it, because otherwise the game went and broke itself.
1) By RAW he has his custom lineage as his race.
2) Tieflings are descended from human bloodlines. In terms of race, for in-game mechanical purposes, they're not human. Same with Aasimar. Your Mountain Elf custom lineage can come from whatever parents you want, that still doesn't preclude it from having another race - mechanically - than its parents while narratively and even nominally being from the same race as its parents.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has [Mountain Elf] for race.
I followed your instructions.
Sofistry aside, you calling something "X" doesn't make it "X" for game purposes. Calling my sheep a ship won't let me sail across the seven seas on it either.
Quite frankly, if you parse a Mountain Elf custom lineage as not an Elf, then either you are wrong, or the game is wrong. I think it is easier to say that forum posters are wrong about it, because otherwise the game went and broke itself.
Nope sorry, if you parse a CL mountain elf as an D&D game race elf then you are wrong. Not the game, not the people who disagree with you.
Me taking two animal and breeding them and then calling the offspring a Dog, doesn't make it a dog, unless of course it is a dog. But if it is a Dog then I would use the games mechanics for Dog and not he games custom mechanics for making my own thing.
Nope sorry, if you parse a CL mountain elf as an D&D game race elf then you are wrong. Not the game, not the people who disagree with you.
If you're correct, and the system doesn't parse a mountain elf, as an elf, then it is broken.
Me taking two animal and breeding them and then calling the offspring a Dog, doesn't make it a dog, unless of course it is a dog. But if it is a Dog then I would use the games mechanics for Dog and not he games custom mechanics for making my own thing.
You think a 4lbs toy chihuahua and a 200lbs great dane should use the same game stats?? Interesting choice.
You absolutely would use some custom lineage mechanics for both of those dogs and not some average-dog stats. You kidding?
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You absolutely would use some custom lineage mechanics for both of those dogs and not some average-dog stats. You kidding?
Eh, you're overthinking this. The only issue at hand is racial feats, which were a crappy idea to begin with ;)
(Tasha's was clearly a step in the opposite direction from Xanathar's, when it comes to race in D&D. Several Tasha's feats are basically improved, non-racial versions of several Xanathar's racial feats. Custom Lineage is kinda awkward, but at least it's trying.)
Racial Feats were a good idea back when we only had 9 races - it was a way to say "hey, I'm THIS type of High Elf!". Sadly then they decided to print another 30+ races and couldn't be arsed to update them with racial feats - would have been a nightmare to design another 90-100+ extra feats and balance them so I kinda understand them.
edit: Hmmm lets do our due dilligence for this and see HOW MANY official/semi-official races we have right now.
PHB: 9 Races (all have racial feats)
XGtE-type books: 21 Races
MtG + Eberron Settings: 17 Races
UA: 6 Races
Custom Lineage
So right now, if your DM was crazy enough to say "Screw it, my Setting has E V E R Y O N E!!!!" you could coose from 53 different races + subraces before you might have to scratch away at that Custom Lineage. So if we did 3 racial feats for every race we would need 159 extra feats.
Well guys, gals and everyone else, you better start cracking! Those feats won't write themselves!
This whole thing is actually very easy. D&D is a game and has rules and mechanics just like any other game. When making a character, one of the steps is selecting a Race. That Race gives you game mechanics to use. Custom Lineage IS your race. In the box it tells you what mechanics to use for your character. Just like when you select any other race, you don't get to use any other mechanics beyond what is provided for that Race.
Custom Lineage does not get to select Elf Feats, because it is not an Elf. It does not matter what you call it. RAW the Race is Custom Lineage. If you use the rules and mechanics for Custom Lineage and call it Lobster Elf, that is just a home brew name that you have attached to it and it has no impact on the rules unless your DM allows it to. It would be no different than using the rules and mechanics for a Rock Gnome and calling it a Lobster Elf.
So, could a Lizardfolk and Warforged Multirace be viable in a campaign, or not? I'm curious
The way Custom Lineage is offered as an option in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Problably not. Custom lineage isn't about fusing PC races into hybrids. It offers a modest array of features to pick from to create a build independent of the racial options in the game (some say a mechanically inferior option in comparison to the official races) and narratively you can say what you want. So you could use custom lineage to say you're some sort of hybrid lizardfolk warforged, but you're going to be lacking most of both race's features.
There is a fairly popular product on DMsGuild called An Orc and an Elf had a Little Baby that's gotten a lot of attention in the broader D&D community. It provides guidance on making characters with parentage stemming from different player races, etc. It's not officially supported on D&D Beyond. so whatever you come up with you'd have to build here using the homebrew tools. Of course, since the guidance the book provides is based entirely on racial features from published races, it shouldn't be impossible, maybe a little tedious but not impossible.
So your position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that doesn't have ANY race whatsoever, yet is of a lineage.
Then your RAW is wrong. You can't be from a lineage and not have a race. That doesn't even make any sense at all. It is gibberish.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The option should have been called "Custom Origin", yes. Because you can absolutely have an 'Origin' without having a species/race/lineage/what-have-you. Nor does your current species have to match what you originated as - Widowgast's Transmogrification exists now, and before it Reincarnate. To say nothing of all the cursed bloodline options halfway embodied in the Gothic Lineages. Again, 'Origin' would be a better word than 'Lineage', but the word 'Lineage' could also refer to what you are now, i.e. the 'Lineage' you can start.
Please do not contact or message me.
I would appreciate if we took some time to stop and read everyone else's posts, the constant back and forth clutters the forum up with a ton of things that have already been said in the past 5 minutes alone, and reloading constantly to keep up with the constant influx of messages is highly annoying.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Using a warforged as a stand-in for anything animated is probably a better fit than the CL is. A doll wouldn't even have a lineage.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No, that's not my position. Everyone has a race they belong to (possibly even more than one), just like everyone has a lineage. My position is that, by RAW, this is a character option to create an entity that for purpose of game mechanics has "Custom Lineage" [or insert whatever name the creator of the character might have in mind for this here] for race.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I followed your instructions.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
^this
Note, the rules-as-written don't actually say that whatever-name-you-give-it counts as official. E.g. if you call it "Elf (custom)" it still doesn't count as a type of "Elf," mechanically.
So what race is a Mountain Elf created using the Custom Lineage?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Sofistry aside, you calling something "X" doesn't make it "X" for game purposes. Calling my sheep a ship won't let me sail across the seven seas on it either.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Mechanically speaking, they are the "Custom Lineage" race. That's even how it gets listed in dndbeyond.
Narratively speaking, they are a Mountain Elf or whatever.
There is a switch, something like "ignore prequisites for feats," in dndbeyond, that allows racial feats to be taken with Custom Lineage. It's pretty clear that's a potential house rule.
It isn't sophistry it is driving at the heart of the disagreement. What race is this guy?? Apparently by RAW he doesn't have one? Yet, if so, that is a nonsensical answer. If that is the RAW then it is really bad RAW. Every character has a race except this one? Just an empty void of classification.
Quite frankly, if you parse a Mountain Elf custom lineage as not an Elf, then either you are wrong, or the game is wrong. I think it is easier to say that forum posters are wrong about it, because otherwise the game went and broke itself.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
1) By RAW he has his custom lineage as his race.
2) Tieflings are descended from human bloodlines. In terms of race, for in-game mechanical purposes, they're not human. Same with Aasimar. Your Mountain Elf custom lineage can come from whatever parents you want, that still doesn't preclude it from having another race - mechanically - than its parents while narratively and even nominally being from the same race as its parents.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Nope sorry, if you parse a CL mountain elf as an D&D game race elf then you are wrong. Not the game, not the people who disagree with you.
Me taking two animal and breeding them and then calling the offspring a Dog, doesn't make it a dog, unless of course it is a dog. But if it is a Dog then I would use the games mechanics for Dog and not he games custom mechanics for making my own thing.
If you're correct, and the system doesn't parse a mountain elf, as an elf, then it is broken.
You think a 4lbs toy chihuahua and a 200lbs great dane should use the same game stats?? Interesting choice.
You absolutely would use some custom lineage mechanics for both of those dogs and not some average-dog stats. You kidding?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
So the question is, would you then count them as average dogs?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Eh, you're overthinking this. The only issue at hand is racial feats, which were a crappy idea to begin with ;)
(Tasha's was clearly a step in the opposite direction from Xanathar's, when it comes to race in D&D. Several Tasha's feats are basically improved, non-racial versions of several Xanathar's racial feats. Custom Lineage is kinda awkward, but at least it's trying.)
Racial Feats were a good idea back when we only had 9 races - it was a way to say "hey, I'm THIS type of High Elf!". Sadly then they decided to print another 30+ races and couldn't be arsed to update them with racial feats - would have been a nightmare to design another 90-100+ extra feats and balance them so I kinda understand them.
edit: Hmmm lets do our due dilligence for this and see HOW MANY official/semi-official races we have right now.
So right now, if your DM was crazy enough to say "Screw it, my Setting has E V E R Y O N E!!!!" you could coose from 53 different races + subraces before you might have to scratch away at that Custom Lineage. So if we did 3 racial feats for every race we would need 159 extra feats.
Well guys, gals and everyone else, you better start cracking! Those feats won't write themselves!
#OpenDnD
This whole thing is actually very easy. D&D is a game and has rules and mechanics just like any other game. When making a character, one of the steps is selecting a Race. That Race gives you game mechanics to use. Custom Lineage IS your race. In the box it tells you what mechanics to use for your character. Just like when you select any other race, you don't get to use any other mechanics beyond what is provided for that Race.
Custom Lineage does not get to select Elf Feats, because it is not an Elf. It does not matter what you call it. RAW the Race is Custom Lineage. If you use the rules and mechanics for Custom Lineage and call it Lobster Elf, that is just a home brew name that you have attached to it and it has no impact on the rules unless your DM allows it to. It would be no different than using the rules and mechanics for a Rock Gnome and calling it a Lobster Elf.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
So, could a Lizardfolk and Warforged Multirace be viable in a campaign, or not? I'm curious
The way Custom Lineage is offered as an option in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Problably not. Custom lineage isn't about fusing PC races into hybrids. It offers a modest array of features to pick from to create a build independent of the racial options in the game (some say a mechanically inferior option in comparison to the official races) and narratively you can say what you want. So you could use custom lineage to say you're some sort of hybrid lizardfolk warforged, but you're going to be lacking most of both race's features.
There is a fairly popular product on DMsGuild called An Orc and an Elf had a Little Baby that's gotten a lot of attention in the broader D&D community. It provides guidance on making characters with parentage stemming from different player races, etc. It's not officially supported on D&D Beyond. so whatever you come up with you'd have to build here using the homebrew tools. Of course, since the guidance the book provides is based entirely on racial features from published races, it shouldn't be impossible, maybe a little tedious but not impossible.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.