Not that long ago there was a user poll asking for people's opinions/feelings on the quality of the non-WotC content on the site. The questions focused on how useful users thought the video and text articles about character creation, class specifics, etc. were, whether they would recommend them to a friend, etc.
It does seem entirely possible that the results indicated that people weren't that impressed with the content. If that was the case, management may have decided either to focus less on that kind of content overall, or they may have asked for sweeping overhauls of format and style that were for whatever reason not appealing to the content creators. As a writer myself I've often found myself losing interest in my work when I'm forced to work with subjects that are less interesting to me personally, or by guidelines that I disagree with. And when that's happened, I've generally looked for a job that would allow me to do more of the things I really enjoy.
But, you know, Fandom is a company and they need to make money. If they're not getting what they perceive to be value for money out of providing the kind of content these people were creating, it makes perfect sense for them to change it up, either by cutting back on what they're spending to create that content or by making changes to the way it's produced. Meanwhile, if that means the writers/talking heads are no longer enjoying their work as much, it makes perfect sense for them to look elsewhere. That's just the nature of business and it's nobody's "fault", so pointing fingers is kinda... pointless.
I will note that I took a look at the Fandom job page and they do not appear to be hiring content creators at this point, but there are quite a few developer positions open. That would seem to support the hypothesis that DDB is just cutting back on content overall.
I would just urge all of you to stop looking for evil intent or impending doom where it probably doesn't exist. Sometimes when you're trying to make money off something you love, you end up having to make compromises in order to keep revenue at a sustainable level. Not everything can actually be driven 100% by customer preference in a business where many customers aren't actually paying anything for the service. There are lots of ways to address that kind of shortfall -- changes to the business model, etc. -- but it can be extremely difficult to predict what will work.
So long as the content (ie books and such) I paid for continue to be available, the rest is just noise and nonsense.
But carry on with the wild speculation, it is very constructive...
some people have so much shit that instead of just throwing it into a pot and stirring it, they walk around with the pot tucked under their arm, asking everyone to grab a quick taste of it.
Does that matter? Does it make the speculations and rumormongering any less bad?
Considering there's literally thousands of users who put their own money into this service who are left with not a lot of information to go off of aside from a couple videos on youtube and a handful of individual posts on this thread: yes, it does matter.
Does that matter? Does it make the speculations and rumormongering any less bad?
Considering there's literally thousands of users who put their own money into this service who are left with not a lot of information to go off of aside from a couple videos on youtube and a handful of individual posts on this thread: yes, it does matter.
That indicates DDB's response has been lacking. It does very little to justify the community channeling legitimate concern into speculative fearmongering.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
That indicates DDB's response has been lacking. It does very little to justify the community channeling legitimate concern into speculative fearmongering.
Because that's what people do when big and sudden changes happen; some of them panic when they aren't given a lot of information (and panic it should be said, is contagious), and act in ways that may be considered irrational...or completely justified, if it turns out their speculation was correct.
Now, I personally am not panicking. I take the staff here at their word that everything is going to be fine. But as far as people speculating out of fear...Well, yeah? That's what happens in *any* given situation.
But as far as people speculating out of fear...Well, yeah? That's what happens in *any* given situation.
So? It could clearly still be better.
Most of these speculative posts don't seem to be inspired by fear either. They foment fear, but I don't think that's were they come from, mostly. It's putting a bad spin on things for no good reason.
Most of these speculative posts don't seem to be inspired by fear either. They foment fear, but I don't think that's were they come from, mostly. It's putting a bad spin on things for no good reason.
It could be better. It could be worse. That's honestly irrelevant, because this was entirely predictable.
And frankly? Who are you to say what's going through a person's mind as they write something? Are you a mind reader? Do you have psychic powers that tell you what a person is thinking?
So Mezzurah instead of just saying they could have done it better - tell them how.
frankly I don't see how DDB handled 4 people leaving poorly when they did a send off video, and even gave them all a chance to say goodbye in their own way. Instead of having 4 send offs they just did it all at once. It's the community who looked at one send off of four people and then held their hands over their ears about the actual information.
The four staff did not leave on the same day, and adam is going to be the last to leave way down the road. Would having four spread out announcements really have been the best option? Would DDB being mind readers and helped so they could have prepped the community back in Aug that staff were leaving (assuming they didn't know this back then)
Feedback like "that could have been done better" is abut as helpful as pointing something out in hindsight. If you think there was a better was, share your thoughts so DDB can learn.
But frankly I agree with pangurjan, this is a community issue not a DDB issue.
I'm always reminded of Neil DeGrasse's quote in times like this.
"The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you."
- Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
We can certainly speculate, be worried, panic, and discuss, but anything beyond the emotions of it all holds no water. We paid for buttons. So long as the buttons we paid for can be pressed, revealing the things that we expect to be revealed upon pressing, there is no harm, foul, or ounce of concern otherwise. When that changes, we can be up in arms. Not when it seems like it will change. The fear of it changing has no impact on it actually changing. We can chat and pie in the sky or doom and gloom it all day, but as someone said it best, earlier; if what we've paid for still works in X months, all is well. We are not entitled to and D&D Beyond is not obligated to provide anything more than that.
So Mezzurah instead of just saying they could have done it better - tell them how.
frankly I don't see how DDB handled 4 people leaving poorly when they did a send off video, and even gave them all a chance to say goodbye in their own way. Instead of having 4 send offs they just did it all at once. It's the community who looked at one send off of four people and then held their hands over their ears about the actual information.
The four staff did not leave on the same day, and adam is going to be the last to leave way down the road. Would having four spread out announcements really have been the best option? Would DDB being mind readers and helped so they could have prepped the community back in Aug that staff were leaving (assuming they didn't know this back then)
Feedback like "that could have been done better" is abut as helpful as pointing something out in hindsight. If you think there was a better was, share your thoughts so DDB can learn.
But frankly I agree with pangurjan, this is a community issue not a DDB issue.
Well if you want specifics, there could have been a front page article detailing their departure and who will be filling their roles, or if there are roles that won't be filled and why. If there's going to be a change in direction (there's been no word on that one way or the other), that would also be a good time to address that. They could have made an official thread in the news forum, which would have been a *much* more appropriate place. I'm looking at DDB's official twitter account, which would also be an excellent place to mention these points, and all I see is a post stating there's a special announcement with a link to the dev update video, but doesn't actually mention any specific details other than to say "Join us in expressing our admiration and gratitude for three adventurers as they head on new adventures", which hints at the issue but doesn't really address it. As for the videos themselves, the dev update that has that send off doesn't actually mention it anywhere in the title or in the description that 3 of their most high-profile staff are leaving, and that only gets addressed in the last half of the video. Todd's video is more more open about what's happening with him, but it still doesn't address anything other than the fact that he's leaving; what would have been much more helpful is if there had been a separate video along the lines of "A farewell to Todd, Lauren, and Brad" that from the beginning details their departure and introduces whoever is goiing to replace them and what, if any, direction changes are going to happen going forwards.
And, frankly? I'm happy to list what could have been done better, like I just did, but I'm not getting paid to do that: there are industry professionals whose job is to do exactly that. If there isn't someone on DDB's payroll to do what I just did, then they need to hire someone ASAP.
This isn't a community issue. The community isn't here on a professional basis. The people running DDB, however, are here on a professional basis. The onus is on ANY business, not just DDB, to make sure there isn't this level of confusion. Otherwise? Yeah, we get exactly what happened.
EDIT: @Jacked_Goblin: DDB isn't the universe. And actually, the fear of things changing can have an impact on things changing if people decide to cancel pre-orders and subscriptions, or hold off on buying books. Is DDB obligated to assuage people's fears? Truthfully, no. But as a business, fear is a very bad thing to have, and you want to address it. Otherwise, things can, and often do, go south.
Does that matter? Does it make the speculations and rumormongering any less bad?
Considering there's literally thousands of users who put their own money into this service who are left with not a lot of information to go off of aside from a couple videos on youtube and a handful of individual posts on this thread: yes, it does matter.
Except there's no evidence that it's any more than a tiny minority of folks who think it's a problem, assuming that because THEY think it's a problem then everyone else must too. An infinitesimally small number of users are posting and speculating. The overwhelming majority are just going about their business, including tons who use this forum but took the departing talent at their word.
It could be better. It could be worse. That's honestly irrelevant, because this was entirely predictable.
It could be better. That's my point. That's what I said. As for being irrelevant, it's not. It's very relevant to point out there's an overreaction. It could be better, but it won't be until that's acknowledged.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Does that matter? Does it make the speculations and rumormongering any less bad?
Considering there's literally thousands of users who put their own money into this service who are left with not a lot of information to go off of aside from a couple videos on youtube and a handful of individual posts on this thread: yes, it does matter.
Except there's no evidence that it's any more than a tiny minority of folks who think it's a problem, assuming that because THEY think it's a problem then everyone else must too. An infinitesimally small number of users are posting and speculating. The overwhelming majority are just going about their business, including tons who use this forum but took the departing talent at their word.
Hoo boy. This is taking up way more of my time than I thought it would.
Do you have evidence that it's a tiny minority? If not, then we're back at square 1, which is: Who knows? Also, you're taking it on faith that some of the folks posting on this thread are the only ones who are worried about it, when the reality is you have no way of knowing more than I do. The only thing I know is, there are people who are concerned, and DDB's announcement of all this isn't as robust as it could have been in addressing those concerns.
It could be better. It could be worse. That's honestly irrelevant, because this was entirely predictable.
It could be better. That's my point. That's what I said. As for being irrelevant, it's not. It's very relevant to point out there's an overreaction. It could be better, but it won't be until that's acknowledged.
My point is that overreaction is inevitable when information isn't distributed as well as it should have been. And blaming the community for reacting to a lack of information is a pointless endeavor, because again, it's comprised of literally thousands of individual people, which is why it's irrelevant.
So Mezzurah, DDB's Twitter feed links you to a video praising some employees publicly upon the announcement of their respective departure plans. This is inadequate?
As a member presumably of the consumer side of the DDB stakeholder spectrum, what exactly do you have riding on whether BadEye or someone else provides the weekly Dev update video, or whether some equivalent of ToddTalks continues after his departure or the format is abandoned entirely, or if Beyond Heroes or Silver and Steel are replaced in time by a new cast of players or that angle is abandoned in exchange for a more robust presence in DDB's Critical Role sponsorship? Again, insight +2 here, I don't consider myself keenly plugged into DDB; but as I and others have noted it was apparent DDB had been thinking about the overall value of the videos, streams and articles from the survey and the mention in a Dev talk that the evaluation of creative content is an ongoing process.
DDB as a toolset is here. The articles are still here. The videos are still here. When people depart, especially in an area that's not essential to the product consumers are paying for, sometimes the biz will take its time to restock those positions. There's a phrase "open to ideas", and the departure of the "face team" grants DDB to go through that process (having formally asked for input in the past, and having a suite of quantitative and qualitative metrics available to them). So other than disappointed at the departure of some folks who did a darned good job promoting the brand through _supplemental_ content, I just don't see the injury some community members are trying to express. "Dang sorry to see them go, looking to see them on the other side and looking forward to seeing what DDB may put in the space they used to hold" is how one makes a farewell. "Scam!" "Rats from a ship" "Why are they not giving us certainty when there isn't a known?" "This company is going under" is just reactionary. No, it's not any community members' paid job to check themselves from venting unwarranted outrage; but it does fall under the etiquette and fair minded social contract that's necessary in healthy online communities.
I think it was this thread, but my mind keeps going back to that kid I mentioned (more closer to grown man, but we'll say kid) spinning himself on his shoulder at a McDonalds in a tantrum because the franchise had run out of Szchehuan Sauce. Did McDonalds mess up. Sure? Were the consequent Rick and Morty riots warranted? I don't think they looked good, or reflected well on the R+M community for sure. While I don't think DDB has mismanaged anything, and this is certainly smaller league than the sauce fail (McNuggets just grosses, so to speak, more than a la carte subclasses), but the ballpark's shaped the same.
Not that long ago there was a user poll asking for people's opinions/feelings on the quality of the non-WotC content on the site. The questions focused on how useful users thought the video and text articles about character creation, class specifics, etc. were, whether they would recommend them to a friend, etc.
It does seem entirely possible that the results indicated that people weren't that impressed with the content. If that was the case, management may have decided either to focus less on that kind of content overall, or they may have asked for sweeping overhauls of format and style that were for whatever reason not appealing to the content creators. As a writer myself I've often found myself losing interest in my work when I'm forced to work with subjects that are less interesting to me personally, or by guidelines that I disagree with. And when that's happened, I've generally looked for a job that would allow me to do more of the things I really enjoy.
But, you know, Fandom is a company and they need to make money. If they're not getting what they perceive to be value for money out of providing the kind of content these people were creating, it makes perfect sense for them to change it up, either by cutting back on what they're spending to create that content or by making changes to the way it's produced. Meanwhile, if that means the writers/talking heads are no longer enjoying their work as much, it makes perfect sense for them to look elsewhere. That's just the nature of business and it's nobody's "fault", so pointing fingers is kinda... pointless.
I will note that I took a look at the Fandom job page and they do not appear to be hiring content creators at this point, but there are quite a few developer positions open. That would seem to support the hypothesis that DDB is just cutting back on content overall.
I would just urge all of you to stop looking for evil intent or impending doom where it probably doesn't exist. Sometimes when you're trying to make money off something you love, you end up having to make compromises in order to keep revenue at a sustainable level. Not everything can actually be driven 100% by customer preference in a business where many customers aren't actually paying anything for the service. There are lots of ways to address that kind of shortfall -- changes to the business model, etc. -- but it can be extremely difficult to predict what will work.
Deep breaths.
some people have so much shit that instead of just throwing it into a pot and stirring it, they walk around with the pot tucked under their arm, asking everyone to grab a quick taste of it.
Well said on your part though.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
I mean, to be fair, DDB as an entity could have handled this a bit better...
Well, as long as we're being fair - this community could have handled this a bit better too.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Does the community get paid to handle things on this site?
Does that matter? Does it make the speculations and rumormongering any less bad?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Considering there's literally thousands of users who put their own money into this service who are left with not a lot of information to go off of aside from a couple videos on youtube and a handful of individual posts on this thread: yes, it does matter.
That indicates DDB's response has been lacking. It does very little to justify the community channeling legitimate concern into speculative fearmongering.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Because that's what people do when big and sudden changes happen; some of them panic when they aren't given a lot of information (and panic it should be said, is contagious), and act in ways that may be considered irrational...or completely justified, if it turns out their speculation was correct.
Now, I personally am not panicking. I take the staff here at their word that everything is going to be fine. But as far as people speculating out of fear...Well, yeah? That's what happens in *any* given situation.
So? It could clearly still be better.
Most of these speculative posts don't seem to be inspired by fear either. They foment fear, but I don't think that's were they come from, mostly. It's putting a bad spin on things for no good reason.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
It could be better. It could be worse. That's honestly irrelevant, because this was entirely predictable.
And frankly? Who are you to say what's going through a person's mind as they write something? Are you a mind reader? Do you have psychic powers that tell you what a person is thinking?
So Mezzurah instead of just saying they could have done it better - tell them how.
frankly I don't see how DDB handled 4 people leaving poorly when they did a send off video, and even gave them all a chance to say goodbye in their own way. Instead of having 4 send offs they just did it all at once. It's the community who looked at one send off of four people and then held their hands over their ears about the actual information.
The four staff did not leave on the same day, and adam is going to be the last to leave way down the road. Would having four spread out announcements really have been the best option? Would DDB being mind readers and helped so they could have prepped the community back in Aug that staff were leaving (assuming they didn't know this back then)
Feedback like "that could have been done better" is abut as helpful as pointing something out in hindsight. If you think there was a better was, share your thoughts so DDB can learn.
But frankly I agree with pangurjan, this is a community issue not a DDB issue.
I'm always reminded of Neil DeGrasse's quote in times like this.
"The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you."
- Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
We can certainly speculate, be worried, panic, and discuss, but anything beyond the emotions of it all holds no water. We paid for buttons. So long as the buttons we paid for can be pressed, revealing the things that we expect to be revealed upon pressing, there is no harm, foul, or ounce of concern otherwise. When that changes, we can be up in arms. Not when it seems like it will change. The fear of it changing has no impact on it actually changing. We can chat and pie in the sky or doom and gloom it all day, but as someone said it best, earlier; if what we've paid for still works in X months, all is well. We are not entitled to and D&D Beyond is not obligated to provide anything more than that.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Well if you want specifics, there could have been a front page article detailing their departure and who will be filling their roles, or if there are roles that won't be filled and why. If there's going to be a change in direction (there's been no word on that one way or the other), that would also be a good time to address that. They could have made an official thread in the news forum, which would have been a *much* more appropriate place. I'm looking at DDB's official twitter account, which would also be an excellent place to mention these points, and all I see is a post stating there's a special announcement with a link to the dev update video, but doesn't actually mention any specific details other than to say "Join us in expressing our admiration and gratitude for three adventurers as they head on new adventures", which hints at the issue but doesn't really address it. As for the videos themselves, the dev update that has that send off doesn't actually mention it anywhere in the title or in the description that 3 of their most high-profile staff are leaving, and that only gets addressed in the last half of the video. Todd's video is more more open about what's happening with him, but it still doesn't address anything other than the fact that he's leaving; what would have been much more helpful is if there had been a separate video along the lines of "A farewell to Todd, Lauren, and Brad" that from the beginning details their departure and introduces whoever is goiing to replace them and what, if any, direction changes are going to happen going forwards.
And, frankly? I'm happy to list what could have been done better, like I just did, but I'm not getting paid to do that: there are industry professionals whose job is to do exactly that. If there isn't someone on DDB's payroll to do what I just did, then they need to hire someone ASAP.
This isn't a community issue. The community isn't here on a professional basis. The people running DDB, however, are here on a professional basis. The onus is on ANY business, not just DDB, to make sure there isn't this level of confusion. Otherwise? Yeah, we get exactly what happened.
EDIT: @Jacked_Goblin: DDB isn't the universe. And actually, the fear of things changing can have an impact on things changing if people decide to cancel pre-orders and subscriptions, or hold off on buying books. Is DDB obligated to assuage people's fears? Truthfully, no. But as a business, fear is a very bad thing to have, and you want to address it. Otherwise, things can, and often do, go south.
Except there's no evidence that it's any more than a tiny minority of folks who think it's a problem, assuming that because THEY think it's a problem then everyone else must too. An infinitesimally small number of users are posting and speculating. The overwhelming majority are just going about their business, including tons who use this forum but took the departing talent at their word.
It could be better. That's my point. That's what I said. As for being irrelevant, it's not. It's very relevant to point out there's an overreaction. It could be better, but it won't be until that's acknowledged.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Hoo boy. This is taking up way more of my time than I thought it would.
Do you have evidence that it's a tiny minority? If not, then we're back at square 1, which is: Who knows? Also, you're taking it on faith that some of the folks posting on this thread are the only ones who are worried about it, when the reality is you have no way of knowing more than I do. The only thing I know is, there are people who are concerned, and DDB's announcement of all this isn't as robust as it could have been in addressing those concerns.
My point is that overreaction is inevitable when information isn't distributed as well as it should have been. And blaming the community for reacting to a lack of information is a pointless endeavor, because again, it's comprised of literally thousands of individual people, which is why it's irrelevant.
So Mezzurah, DDB's Twitter feed links you to a video praising some employees publicly upon the announcement of their respective departure plans. This is inadequate?
As a member presumably of the consumer side of the DDB stakeholder spectrum, what exactly do you have riding on whether BadEye or someone else provides the weekly Dev update video, or whether some equivalent of ToddTalks continues after his departure or the format is abandoned entirely, or if Beyond Heroes or Silver and Steel are replaced in time by a new cast of players or that angle is abandoned in exchange for a more robust presence in DDB's Critical Role sponsorship? Again, insight +2 here, I don't consider myself keenly plugged into DDB; but as I and others have noted it was apparent DDB had been thinking about the overall value of the videos, streams and articles from the survey and the mention in a Dev talk that the evaluation of creative content is an ongoing process.
DDB as a toolset is here. The articles are still here. The videos are still here. When people depart, especially in an area that's not essential to the product consumers are paying for, sometimes the biz will take its time to restock those positions. There's a phrase "open to ideas", and the departure of the "face team" grants DDB to go through that process (having formally asked for input in the past, and having a suite of quantitative and qualitative metrics available to them). So other than disappointed at the departure of some folks who did a darned good job promoting the brand through _supplemental_ content, I just don't see the injury some community members are trying to express. "Dang sorry to see them go, looking to see them on the other side and looking forward to seeing what DDB may put in the space they used to hold" is how one makes a farewell. "Scam!" "Rats from a ship" "Why are they not giving us certainty when there isn't a known?" "This company is going under" is just reactionary. No, it's not any community members' paid job to check themselves from venting unwarranted outrage; but it does fall under the etiquette and fair minded social contract that's necessary in healthy online communities.
I think it was this thread, but my mind keeps going back to that kid I mentioned (more closer to grown man, but we'll say kid) spinning himself on his shoulder at a McDonalds in a tantrum because the franchise had run out of Szchehuan Sauce. Did McDonalds mess up. Sure? Were the consequent Rick and Morty riots warranted? I don't think they looked good, or reflected well on the R+M community for sure. While I don't think DDB has mismanaged anything, and this is certainly smaller league than the sauce fail (McNuggets just grosses, so to speak, more than a la carte subclasses), but the ballpark's shaped the same.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Midnight, please go back and read what I actually wrote, and respond without strawmanning me.
Actually, don't It's clear you didn't read what I said, and I don't have the patience to respond to someone arguing in bad faith.