This is a problem for exactly ALL campaigns currently being run on DDB. What DM in their right mind is going to immediately adopt new spell rules to a campaign in progress? None. Exactly none.
We are, actually, but I recognize we're likely very much in the minority on that. But this is a really shitty decision by WotC for sure, no doubt about it.
WOTC, pardon the language but ARE YOU ******* INSANE? Is this the work of Grazz't or an insidious plot of Asmodeus? You're actually just going to forcibly update spells to the 2024 versions for EVERYONE? Regardless of whether or not we purchase the new rule books? Just a big middle finger **** you to anyone who is currently running an ongoing campaign based entirely 2014 based characters?
You have the Legacy badge.
You've shown you're willing to use the legacy badge for races and feats and classes and subclasses....but spells is where you draw the ******* line?
"Oh well it's just to difficult to have two versions of them.." UPDATE THE ******* NAMES SO WE CAN CHOOSE. Or better yet, you're release notes state that you can gate the 2014/2024 content based on which version of a class you're playing. Want to create an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer with the 2024 class version? Too bad, you can only get the 2024 subclass. MAKE A NEW FIELD IN YOUR ******* DATABASE AND GATE THE ******* SPELLS BASED ON CLASS VERSION. YOU ALREADY HAVE THE GODSDAMNED TOOLS TO DO IT AND YOU ARE CHOOSING TO PISS OFF A MASSIVE FAN BASE OF TECH SAVVY NERDS WHO WILL RAGE QUIT YOUR ENTIRE ******* IP.
I am doing my best to follow the advice of homebrewing, and it is very clear no one from WotC tried to follow their own advice before giving it.
Even if you homebrew all 2014 spells, you cannot remove the 2024 spells from the player sheet because there are spells baked in not only to the subclasses but to the classes themselves that we cannot change. The Ranger Primal Awareness feature grants spells. I cannot homebrew my way into changing them. The only workaround I have is to turn off that optional feature and replace it with a homebrewed feat, and just hope the player remembers that the Primeval Awareness feature their character sheet tells them they have is in fact a lie caused by Beyond's appalling choices.
It is not physically possible to keep a solely 2014 character sheet up on this site. It is not a case of DMs not being willing to put the work in, though those that are not willing are so valid for that; it is a case of WotC trying to tell us we can do something which is genuinely impossible.
Editing for spelling. Apologies, I've spent far too much time today copying homebrew and chasing yet more places the change is going to break things. Refusing to pay for anything from WotC ever again is one thing; I am beginning to wonder if it is worth my sanity to blacklist this site and never return.
So, it turns out 2014 warlocks are now impossible to play on here (absent convoluted workarounds).
Legacy invocations will automatically point to the new spells, and you cannot make homebrew invocations so there is no way to make your own that use the old spells.
Even if you homebrew all 2014 spells, you cannot remove the 2024 spells from the player sheet because there are spells baked in not only to the subclasses but to the classes themselves that we cannot change. The Ranger Primal Awareness feature grants spells. I cannot homebrew my way into changing them. The only workaround I have is to turn off that optional feature and replace it with a homebrewed feat, and just hope the player remembers that the Primeval Awareness feature their character sheet tells them they have is in fact a lie caused by Beyond's appalling choices.
One workaround, and I know this isn't a perfect fix, is that I'm prefacing all of my copied spells with a common name. So instead of X or COPY_OF_X I've made them as Zacchaeus' X. So when I want to look in a character sheet I'm not going to look through the entire list. I'm just gonna scroll down to the Zacchaeus' section and start looking from there.
Like I said, not a perfect fix. And it'd be much better if WotC just let us use the content we paid for. But that is one possible way to make your life *slightly* less inconvenienced.
I am doing my best to follow the advice of homebrewing, and it is very clear no one from WotC tried to follow their own advice before giving it.
Even if you homebrew all 2014 spells, you cannot remove the 2024 spells from the player sheet because there are spells baked in not only to the subclasses but to the classes themselves that we cannot change. The Ranger Primal Awareness feature grants spells. I cannot homebrew my way into changing them. The only workaround I have is to turn off that optional feature and replace it with a homebrewed feat, and just hope the player remembers that the Primeval Awareness feature their character sheet tells them they have is in fact a lie caused by Beyond's appalling choices.
It is not physically possible to keep a solely 2014 character sheep up on this site. It is not a case of DMs not being willing to put the work in, though those that are not willing are so valid for that; it is a case of a WotC trying to tell us we can do something which is genuinely impossible.
That is one of my points! It is obvious whoever thought this was a good idea (and approved it) doesn't play their own game.
Respectfully you should make it an option to toggle in the settings and seems silly to force it on those of us not interested in the 2024 rule books.
…..this feels like a forced grab because you aren’t getting enough interest in the projected numbers into the new system so you are forcing it on everyone which….is just awful. Don’t kill your fan base with the thought process of considering our digital content “leased” and therefore able to be changed when ever you wish because I guarantee that it won’t end well for the business. This is a community of creation we can go elsewhere and rebuild elsewhere……reconsider your decisions here….
All I can say is what a** holes. Removing content I am using on your site. Simply babysitter you want to force us to buy the new content. Have you learned nothing from all the previous mistakes you have made changing content?
Hey Pathfinder, looks like you are about to get a bunch of me customers again.
I'll be cancelling my subscription when you replace my content.
Does WoTC hate DMs? Because you run the company like you hate DMs.
I know others have responded and this is a bit off-topic, but yeah. It's been my impression for a while now that the approach behind the 2024 rules is one in which the DM is a barely necessary or wanted evil; they're not considered another player, whose fun also matters, but someone there merely to roll dice for NPCs and monsters.
It's felt like WOTC and/or Hasbro has the goal of making DMs obsolete - or, at best, a luxury you don't really need to play and enjoy the game.
A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding what's happening (not all, but a lot). The 2014 versions of spells and magical items (and everything else) aren't disappearing completely. Their text will still be in their sourcebooks (the 2014 Basic Rules/PHB). What will be removed is their integration in character sheets. Which, to be clear, I think is quite a bad move for several reasons many people have covered here. The content itself, what you have spent money on, will still be accessible within the digital books that you'll still have access to; it isn't being "stolen" from anyone in that sense. But those spells and magic items won't be automatically integrated in the character sheets. Which, again, sucks real bad for people (like me) looking to still play with 2014 characters, but isn't the same as what some people seem to think it is.
One thing is that I just noticed by reading the changelog again:
Not as concerning as the main issue we are talking, but similar dumb decision. A book from two years will have some of it's content tagged and badged as "Legacy". Should I remind you that the monsters that appear in monsters of the multiverse already appear in other versions as legacy (from Volo's) so it will be likely we will have 3 copies of some monsters when the new Monster Manual comes, two of those with "Legacy" badges. Not confusing at all...
They should just change the company name to "Barbarians of the Coast" at this point, they clearly recasted for this new edition and dumped intelligence.
Does WoTC hate DMs? Because you run the company like you hate DMs.
I know others have responded and this is a bit off-topic, but yeah. It's been my impression for a while now that the approach behind the 2024 rules is one in which the DM is a barely necessary or wanted evil; they're not considered another player, whose fun also matters, but someone there merely to roll dice for NPCs and monsters.
It's felt like WOTC and/or Hasbro has the goal of making DMs obsolete - or, at best, a luxury you don't really need to play and enjoy the game.
I'm going to put my tin hat for this one but:
This makes it really easy in case they ever want to make an AI to act as DM... Just saying...
As far as we know it's happening when Master Tier subscribers get early access to the book, which I believe is the 3rd September. So nothing has changed yet.
Does WoTC hate DMs? Because you run the company like you hate DMs.
I know others have responded and this is a bit off-topic, but yeah. It's been my impression for a while now that the approach behind the 2024 rules is one in which the DM is a barely necessary or wanted evil; they're not considered another player, whose fun also matters, but someone there merely to roll dice for NPCs and monsters.
It's felt like WOTC and/or Hasbro has the goal of making DMs obsolete - or, at best, a luxury you don't really need to play and enjoy the game.
I'm going to put my tin hat for this one but:
This makes it really easy in case they ever want to make an AI to act as DM... Just saying...
wouldnt shock me they are already trying to replace their workforce with AI lol soon even mods wont be needed and replaced with AI
As far as we know it's happening when Master Tier subscribers get early access to the book, which I believe is the 3rd September. So nothing has changed yet.
The Aug 27th maintenance is also a possible candidate.
Whoever thought this would go well was obviously not paying attention that time Apple gave everyone the new U2 album for free whether they wanted it or not.
EDIT: I have decided to go ahead and cancel my subscription now. I think I might also see if I can cancel my 2024 bundle pre-order and ask for a refund.
If WotC reverses course and gives us the option to toggle between 2014 and 2024, I will likely reactivate my subscription and repurchase the 2024 rules as I do feel like they are mostly an improvement over the 2014 rules. I just want to shift to them on my own terms and at my own pace.
At this point I'm wondering if my subscription is even worth keeping. Just about the only thing that you can get all 6 of my core group to readily agree on is that we do not want to switch to the new edition (I don't care if you are calling it an edition, patch, update, whatever). I used this for convenience, and you are removing that convenience. I see very little reason to keep my subscription. I'll give a few days to see if they reverse course but if they don't... well I've already started converting my players character sheets to other platforms or physical sheets depending on their preference. My long running 5e campaign will survive this change, but my subscription won't unless you reverse course.
Yeah, I've seen rumors to that effect. Hopefully untrue as that's not been communicated to us and would mean we've only been given a week to adapt, but I wouldn't be totally surprised.
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We are, actually, but I recognize we're likely very much in the minority on that. But this is a really shitty decision by WotC for sure, no doubt about it.
i'm gonna repeat myself - this should be a toggle on the campaign/character, not a forced change.
WOTC, pardon the language but ARE YOU ******* INSANE? Is this the work of Grazz't or an insidious plot of Asmodeus? You're actually just going to forcibly update spells to the 2024 versions for EVERYONE? Regardless of whether or not we purchase the new rule books? Just a big middle finger **** you to anyone who is currently running an ongoing campaign based entirely 2014 based characters?
You have the Legacy badge.
You've shown you're willing to use the legacy badge for races and feats and classes and subclasses....but spells is where you draw the ******* line?
"Oh well it's just to difficult to have two versions of them.." UPDATE THE ******* NAMES SO WE CAN CHOOSE. Or better yet, you're release notes state that you can gate the 2014/2024 content based on which version of a class you're playing. Want to create an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer with the 2024 class version? Too bad, you can only get the 2024 subclass. MAKE A NEW FIELD IN YOUR ******* DATABASE AND GATE THE ******* SPELLS BASED ON CLASS VERSION. YOU ALREADY HAVE THE GODSDAMNED TOOLS TO DO IT AND YOU ARE CHOOSING TO PISS OFF A MASSIVE FAN BASE OF TECH SAVVY NERDS WHO WILL RAGE QUIT YOUR ENTIRE ******* IP.
This is absolutely insane.
I am doing my best to follow the advice of homebrewing, and it is very clear no one from WotC tried to follow their own advice before giving it.
Even if you homebrew all 2014 spells, you cannot remove the 2024 spells from the player sheet because there are spells baked in not only to the subclasses but to the classes themselves that we cannot change. The Ranger Primal Awareness feature grants spells. I cannot homebrew my way into changing them. The only workaround I have is to turn off that optional feature and replace it with a homebrewed feat, and just hope the player remembers that the Primeval Awareness feature their character sheet tells them they have is in fact a lie caused by Beyond's appalling choices.
It is not physically possible to keep a solely 2014 character sheet up on this site. It is not a case of DMs not being willing to put the work in, though those that are not willing are so valid for that; it is a case of WotC trying to tell us we can do something which is genuinely impossible.
Editing for spelling. Apologies, I've spent far too much time today copying homebrew and chasing yet more places the change is going to break things. Refusing to pay for anything from WotC ever again is one thing; I am beginning to wonder if it is worth my sanity to blacklist this site and never return.
So, it turns out 2014 warlocks are now impossible to play on here (absent convoluted workarounds).
Legacy invocations will automatically point to the new spells, and you cannot make homebrew invocations so there is no way to make your own that use the old spells.
One workaround, and I know this isn't a perfect fix, is that I'm prefacing all of my copied spells with a common name. So instead of X or COPY_OF_X I've made them as Zacchaeus' X. So when I want to look in a character sheet I'm not going to look through the entire list. I'm just gonna scroll down to the Zacchaeus' section and start looking from there.
Like I said, not a perfect fix. And it'd be much better if WotC just let us use the content we paid for. But that is one possible way to make your life *slightly* less inconvenienced.
This is a signature. It was a simple signature. But it has been upgraded.
Belolonandalogalo, Sunny | Draíocht, Kholias | Eggo Lass, 100 Dungeons
Talorin Tebedi, Vecna: Eve | Cherry, Stormwreck | Chipper, Strahd
Let's Test Monsters! | We Are Modron
Get rickrolled here. Awesome music here. Track 45, 2/3/25, Adiemus
That is one of my points! It is obvious whoever thought this was a good idea (and approved it) doesn't play their own game.
Respectfully you should make it an option to toggle in the settings and seems silly to force it on those of us not interested in the 2024 rule books.
…..this feels like a forced grab because you aren’t getting enough interest in the projected numbers into the new system so you are forcing it on everyone which….is just awful. Don’t kill your fan base with the thought process of considering our digital content “leased” and therefore able to be changed when ever you wish because I guarantee that it won’t end well for the business. This is a community of creation we can go elsewhere and rebuild elsewhere……reconsider your decisions here….
WTF
All I can say is what a** holes. Removing content I am using on your site. Simply babysitter you want to force us to buy the new content. Have you learned nothing from all the previous mistakes you have made changing content?
Hey Pathfinder, looks like you are about to get a bunch of me customers again.
I'll be cancelling my subscription when you replace my content.
I know others have responded and this is a bit off-topic, but yeah. It's been my impression for a while now that the approach behind the 2024 rules is one in which the DM is a barely necessary or wanted evil; they're not considered another player, whose fun also matters, but someone there merely to roll dice for NPCs and monsters.
It's felt like WOTC and/or Hasbro has the goal of making DMs obsolete - or, at best, a luxury you don't really need to play and enjoy the game.
A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding what's happening (not all, but a lot). The 2014 versions of spells and magical items (and everything else) aren't disappearing completely. Their text will still be in their sourcebooks (the 2014 Basic Rules/PHB). What will be removed is their integration in character sheets. Which, to be clear, I think is quite a bad move for several reasons many people have covered here. The content itself, what you have spent money on, will still be accessible within the digital books that you'll still have access to; it isn't being "stolen" from anyone in that sense. But those spells and magic items won't be automatically integrated in the character sheets. Which, again, sucks real bad for people (like me) looking to still play with 2014 characters, but isn't the same as what some people seem to think it is.
One thing is that I just noticed by reading the changelog again:
Not as concerning as the main issue we are talking, but similar dumb decision. A book from two years will have some of it's content tagged and badged as "Legacy". Should I remind you that the monsters that appear in monsters of the multiverse already appear in other versions as legacy (from Volo's) so it will be likely we will have 3 copies of some monsters when the new Monster Manual comes, two of those with "Legacy" badges. Not confusing at all...
They should just change the company name to "Barbarians of the Coast" at this point, they clearly recasted for this new edition and dumped intelligence.
Have the changes taken effect. It looks like my character sheet still shows 2014 spells?
I'm going to put my tin hat for this one but:
This makes it really easy in case they ever want to make an AI to act as DM...
Just saying...
As far as we know it's happening when Master Tier subscribers get early access to the book, which I believe is the 3rd September. So nothing has changed yet.
wouldnt shock me they are already trying to replace their workforce with AI lol soon even mods wont be needed and replaced with AI
The Aug 27th maintenance is also a possible candidate.
This is a signature. It was a simple signature. But it has been upgraded.
Belolonandalogalo, Sunny | Draíocht, Kholias | Eggo Lass, 100 Dungeons
Talorin Tebedi, Vecna: Eve | Cherry, Stormwreck | Chipper, Strahd
Let's Test Monsters! | We Are Modron
Get rickrolled here. Awesome music here. Track 45, 2/3/25, Adiemus
Whoever thought this would go well was obviously not paying attention that time Apple gave everyone the new U2 album for free whether they wanted it or not.
EDIT: I have decided to go ahead and cancel my subscription now. I think I might also see if I can cancel my 2024 bundle pre-order and ask for a refund.
If WotC reverses course and gives us the option to toggle between 2014 and 2024, I will likely reactivate my subscription and repurchase the 2024 rules as I do feel like they are mostly an improvement over the 2014 rules. I just want to shift to them on my own terms and at my own pace.
At this point I'm wondering if my subscription is even worth keeping. Just about the only thing that you can get all 6 of my core group to readily agree on is that we do not want to switch to the new edition (I don't care if you are calling it an edition, patch, update, whatever). I used this for convenience, and you are removing that convenience. I see very little reason to keep my subscription. I'll give a few days to see if they reverse course but if they don't... well I've already started converting my players character sheets to other platforms or physical sheets depending on their preference. My long running 5e campaign will survive this change, but my subscription won't unless you reverse course.
Yeah, I've seen rumors to that effect. Hopefully untrue as that's not been communicated to us and would mean we've only been given a week to adapt, but I wouldn't be totally surprised.