Does WoTC hate DMs? Because you run the company like you hate DMs.
I know others have responded and this is a bit off-topic, but yeah. It's been my impression for a while now that the approach behind the 2024 rules is one in which the DM is a barely necessary or wanted evil; they're not considered another player, whose fun also matters, but someone there merely to roll dice for NPCs and monsters.
It's felt like WOTC and/or Hasbro has the goal of making DMs obsolete - or, at best, a luxury you don't really need to play and enjoy the game.
I'm going to put my tin hat for this one but:
This makes it really easy in case they ever want to make an AI to act as DM... Just saying...
As far as we know it's happening when Master Tier subscribers get early access to the book, which I believe is the 3rd September. So nothing has changed yet.
Does WoTC hate DMs? Because you run the company like you hate DMs.
I know others have responded and this is a bit off-topic, but yeah. It's been my impression for a while now that the approach behind the 2024 rules is one in which the DM is a barely necessary or wanted evil; they're not considered another player, whose fun also matters, but someone there merely to roll dice for NPCs and monsters.
It's felt like WOTC and/or Hasbro has the goal of making DMs obsolete - or, at best, a luxury you don't really need to play and enjoy the game.
I'm going to put my tin hat for this one but:
This makes it really easy in case they ever want to make an AI to act as DM... Just saying...
wouldnt shock me they are already trying to replace their workforce with AI lol soon even mods wont be needed and replaced with AI
As far as we know it's happening when Master Tier subscribers get early access to the book, which I believe is the 3rd September. So nothing has changed yet.
The Aug 27th maintenance is also a possible candidate.
Whoever thought this would go well was obviously not paying attention that time Apple gave everyone the new U2 album for free whether they wanted it or not.
EDIT: I have decided to go ahead and cancel my subscription now. I think I might also see if I can cancel my 2024 bundle pre-order and ask for a refund.
If WotC reverses course and gives us the option to toggle between 2014 and 2024, I will likely reactivate my subscription and repurchase the 2024 rules as I do feel like they are mostly an improvement over the 2014 rules. I just want to shift to them on my own terms and at my own pace.
At this point I'm wondering if my subscription is even worth keeping. Just about the only thing that you can get all 6 of my core group to readily agree on is that we do not want to switch to the new edition (I don't care if you are calling it an edition, patch, update, whatever). I used this for convenience, and you are removing that convenience. I see very little reason to keep my subscription. I'll give a few days to see if they reverse course but if they don't... well I've already started converting my players character sheets to other platforms or physical sheets depending on their preference. My long running 5e campaign will survive this change, but my subscription won't unless you reverse course.
Yeah, I've seen rumors to that effect. Hopefully untrue as that's not been communicated to us and would mean we've only been given a week to adapt, but I wouldn't be totally surprised.
The funny thing is all they'd need on the sheet & compendium is a 2014/2024/Both toggle, that way "Legacy" could be reserved for items obsoleted *within* an edition & there wouldn't be duplicate "Legacy" tags.
Make "2024" on by default if you wish. You're already duplicating the entries, they're still there in the books.
Just like, on/off switch for search & sheet:
Edition: 2014/2024
Sources: Core/Third Party/(Etc)
Legacy: On/Off
Helps future proof it if they print another book in 2024 they want to obsolete. Most of the searches already implement these toggles already.
If a sheet has both editions on just show the 2024 tool tip. If only 2014, show 2014 tooltips.
Frankly, I am thoroughly unhappy about this change. I spent money to purchase a specific product. I expect that product to continue to be available to me. If you are not going to make 2014 spells (the product I paid for) available to use in the manner for which I purchased them, I expect a refund.
Others have explained why this make spells homebrew situation will not work, I want to re-iterate that there are only two viable options here:
1. Have a toggle for the 2014 version.
2. Offer refunds to all those who have bought spells that will be affected.
Does WoTC hate DMs? Because you run the company like you hate DMs.
I know others have responded and this is a bit off-topic, but yeah. It's been my impression for a while now that the approach behind the 2024 rules is one in which the DM is a barely necessary or wanted evil; they're not considered another player, whose fun also matters, but someone there merely to roll dice for NPCs and monsters.
It's felt like WOTC and/or Hasbro has the goal of making DMs obsolete - or, at best, a luxury you don't really need to play and enjoy the game.
Man I sure hope they are not working on some AI that DM's. That would be terrible ...RiGhT????
I dont get it so if im not buying new 2024 books im losing access to spells and magic items from 2014 book that i paid for? what kind of bullshit is this?if this is true i need option to download books that I PAID FOR and use them as i want.
Frankly, I am thoroughly unhappy about this change. I spent money to purchase a specific product. I expect that product to continue to be available to me. If you are not going to make 2014 spells (the product I paid for) available to use in the manner for which I purchased them, I expect a refund.
Others have explained why this make spells homebrew situation will not work, I want to re-iterate that there are only two viable options here:
1. Have a toggle for the 2014 version.
2. Offer refunds to all those who have bought spells that will be affected.
I completely agree. I paid for those 2014 rules with the expectation that I would be able to continue to use them on this platform. Are there any lawyers in the forum with thoughts on this?
I am doing my best to follow the advice of homebrewing, and it is very clear no one from WotC tried to follow their own advice before giving it.
Even if you homebrew all 2014 spells, you cannot remove the 2024 spells from the player sheet because there are spells baked in not only to the subclasses but to the classes themselves that we cannot change. The Ranger Primal Awareness feature grants spells. I cannot homebrew my way into changing them. The only workaround I have is to turn off that optional feature and replace it with a homebrewed feat, and just hope the player remembers that the Primeval Awareness feature their character sheet tells them they have is in fact a lie caused by Beyond's appalling choices.
It is not physically possible to keep a solely 2014 character sheet up on this site. It is not a case of DMs not being willing to put the work in, though those that are not willing are so valid for that; it is a case of WotC trying to tell us we can do something which is genuinely impossible.
Editing for spelling. Apologies, I've spent far too much time today copying homebrew and chasing yet more places the change is going to break things. Refusing to pay for anything from WotC ever again is one thing; I am beginning to wonder if it is worth my sanity to blacklist this site and never return.
A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding what's happening (not all, but a lot). The 2014 versions of spells and magical items (and everything else) aren't disappearing completely. Their text will still be in their sourcebooks (the 2014 Basic Rules/PHB). What will be removed is their integration in character sheets. Which, to be clear, I think is quite a bad move for several reasons many people have covered here. The content itself, what you have spent money on, will still be accessible within the digital books that you'll still have access to; it isn't being "stolen" from anyone in that sense. But those spells and magic items won't be automatically integrated in the character sheets. Which, again, sucks real bad for people (like me) looking to still play with 2014 characters, but isn't the same as what some people seem to think it is.
I bought this content because of this integration with tools. Without it, I would have stuck with the books or gone to other online sources for the content.
I am doing my best to follow the advice of homebrewing, and it is very clear no one from WotC tried to follow their own advice before giving it.
Even if you homebrew all 2014 spells, you cannot remove the 2024 spells from the player sheet because there are spells baked in not only to the subclasses but to the classes themselves that we cannot change. The Ranger Primal Awareness feature grants spells. I cannot homebrew my way into changing them. The only workaround I have is to turn off that optional feature and replace it with a homebrewed feat, and just hope the player remembers that the Primeval Awareness feature their character sheet tells them they have is in fact a lie caused by Beyond's appalling choices.
It is not physically possible to keep a solely 2014 character sheet up on this site. It is not a case of DMs not being willing to put the work in, though those that are not willing are so valid for that; it is a case of WotC trying to tell us we can do something which is genuinely impossible.
I'm guessing this will also apply to any class that gets an expanded spell list from Tasha's, I.e. every spellcaster I think. It's also mentioned elsewhere that you cannot homebrew Warlock invocations, and many of them grant spells. It's looking like it'll be impossible to play using the 2014 rules.
I think the forced changes are going to push me and my group away from here, after everything it was already on thin ice, but being forced into this change has most likely done it, it's not a subtle push.
What happens if a class feature gets changed like meta magic, Eldritch Invocations, channel divinity, etc? Can those sorts of things be homebrewed?
Eldritch invocations cannot be homebrewed, so any that grant a spell cannot be homebrewed to use the 2014 version (and therefore you cannot play a purely 2014 warlock going forward).
Channel Divinity and Metamagic I believe are tied to the class\subclass, so I assume you'd still get the legacy version with the legacy subclass.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm going to put my tin hat for this one but:
This makes it really easy in case they ever want to make an AI to act as DM...
Just saying...
As far as we know it's happening when Master Tier subscribers get early access to the book, which I believe is the 3rd September. So nothing has changed yet.
wouldnt shock me they are already trying to replace their workforce with AI lol soon even mods wont be needed and replaced with AI
The Aug 27th maintenance is also a possible candidate.
This is a signature. It was a simple signature. But it has been upgraded.
Belolonandalogalo, Sunny
Eggo Lass, Bone and Oblivion | Tendilius Mondhaven Paxaramus, Drakkenheim
Karl Erikson, No Guts No Glory | Chipper, Curse of Strahd
Silverwood Group 1 | Silverwood Group 2
Get rickrolled here. Awesome music here. Track 51, 10/23/25, Viva La Vida
Whoever thought this would go well was obviously not paying attention that time Apple gave everyone the new U2 album for free whether they wanted it or not.
EDIT: I have decided to go ahead and cancel my subscription now. I think I might also see if I can cancel my 2024 bundle pre-order and ask for a refund.
If WotC reverses course and gives us the option to toggle between 2014 and 2024, I will likely reactivate my subscription and repurchase the 2024 rules as I do feel like they are mostly an improvement over the 2014 rules. I just want to shift to them on my own terms and at my own pace.
At this point I'm wondering if my subscription is even worth keeping. Just about the only thing that you can get all 6 of my core group to readily agree on is that we do not want to switch to the new edition (I don't care if you are calling it an edition, patch, update, whatever). I used this for convenience, and you are removing that convenience. I see very little reason to keep my subscription. I'll give a few days to see if they reverse course but if they don't... well I've already started converting my players character sheets to other platforms or physical sheets depending on their preference. My long running 5e campaign will survive this change, but my subscription won't unless you reverse course.
Yeah, I've seen rumors to that effect. Hopefully untrue as that's not been communicated to us and would mean we've only been given a week to adapt, but I wouldn't be totally surprised.
The funny thing is all they'd need on the sheet & compendium is a 2014/2024/Both toggle, that way "Legacy" could be reserved for items obsoleted *within* an edition & there wouldn't be duplicate "Legacy" tags.
Make "2024" on by default if you wish. You're already duplicating the entries, they're still there in the books.
Just like, on/off switch for search & sheet:
Edition: 2014/2024
Sources: Core/Third Party/(Etc)
Legacy: On/Off
Helps future proof it if they print another book in 2024 they want to obsolete. Most of the searches already implement these toggles already.
If a sheet has both editions on just show the 2024 tool tip. If only 2014, show 2014 tooltips.
Because Robots.
Looks like there will be lots of boycotting again.
Frankly, I am thoroughly unhappy about this change. I spent money to purchase a specific product. I expect that product to continue to be available to me. If you are not going to make 2014 spells (the product I paid for) available to use in the manner for which I purchased them, I expect a refund.
Others have explained why this make spells homebrew situation will not work, I want to re-iterate that there are only two viable options here:
1. Have a toggle for the 2014 version.
2. Offer refunds to all those who have bought spells that will be affected.
Man I sure hope they are not working on some AI that DM's. That would be terrible ...RiGhT????
I dont get it so if im not buying new 2024 books im losing access to spells and magic items from 2014 book that i paid for? what kind of bullshit is this?if this is true i need option to download books that I PAID FOR and use them as i want.
I completely agree. I paid for those 2014 rules with the expectation that I would be able to continue to use them on this platform. Are there any lawyers in the forum with thoughts on this?
Glad I am paying $60 a year for Master Tier only to lose content that I have already paid for. Guess we are moving back to paper...
P.S.To my post - I Demand a refund for stealing what i paid for. i will never buy a single thing from beyond. Long live john silver.
Amen.
I bought this content because of this integration with tools. Without it, I would have stuck with the books or gone to other online sources for the content.
I'm guessing this will also apply to any class that gets an expanded spell list from Tasha's, I.e. every spellcaster I think. It's also mentioned elsewhere that you cannot homebrew Warlock invocations, and many of them grant spells. It's looking like it'll be impossible to play using the 2014 rules.
I think the forced changes are going to push me and my group away from here, after everything it was already on thin ice, but being forced into this change has most likely done it, it's not a subtle push.
Eldritch invocations cannot be homebrewed, so any that grant a spell cannot be homebrewed to use the 2014 version (and therefore you cannot play a purely 2014 warlock going forward).
Channel Divinity and Metamagic I believe are tied to the class\subclass, so I assume you'd still get the legacy version with the legacy subclass.