I've reflected on this over the last few hours and I've decided to cancel my Master tier subscription renewal until this is resolved. Sorry, but I'm running three 2014 campaigns and I don't need the hassle of attempting to discern what's 2014 and what's 2024 on my players' sheets. Back to pen and paper we go.
What's going to be interesting to watch is all of the actual plays on the internet like Critical Role, D20, etc. who use DnD beyond and are in the middle of campaigns, to suddenly be forced to swap rules and lose access to older spells and items. Let the confusion begin.
This is not ok. Way to pull the rug out from under paying customers' feet. I paid hundreds of dollars for 2014 content and now I have to make homebrew copies to keep access? That's so messed up. Glad I already canceled my master subscription. Won't be purchasing anything else ever again, since I'll never know when you next decide to take something away. Trust irrevocably broken.
This is not ok. Way to pull the rug out from under paying customers' feet. I paid hundreds of dollars for 2014 content and now I have to make homebrew copies to keep access? That's so messed up. Glad I already canceled my master subscription. Won't be purchasing anything else ever again, since I'll never know when you next decide to take something away. Trust irrevocably broken.
Its worse than that, all the ruleset changes reflect on th character sheets. So any changes like inspiration now ONLY show the 2024 version. This breaks everyone's character sheets unless they switch on launch.
So first, this is being handled terribly. Let people keep the content they payed for. Its not that hard. You already have the Legacy tag.
Second, will people who bought the 2014 content will be getting the 2024 version for free at least? I know most of the spells and Items will be covered in the basic rules/SRD but not all of them are.
Absolutely awful decision making here. Don't force us to homebrew the spells we want. Use a toggle like others have suggested and don't ruin the user experience for people who don't want to play 5.5.
I have a physical copy of the 2014 PHB. I bought a digital copy ON TOP of that specifically so that I could have the convenience of the Character Builder and other tools here on D&D Beyond. And now that's being taken away?
Can I get a refund on my 2014 digital PHB? Because I really think a refund is warranted. You sold it to me on the basis that it would make my life easier, and now you are reneging on the deal.
working with the tools that dnd beyond provides is a big part of the selling point of buying things on beyond in the first place, its very disappointing they would cut that
This is unacceptable. I'm losing the ability to use content I paid for on a service I'm continuing to pay for. You're degrading user experience to try to force them to use things they don't want.
Your homebrew tools don't even work.
I'm done. I'm done paying money for this useless service that only seems to get worse with time. I'm done buying anything from Hasbro. I'm done with the greed and idiotic decisions.
I've cancelled my sub for good and sent in a contact/email requesting how do I get refunds on all the content I've purchased and no longer accessible after the update goes live.
What are the chances they are willing give refunds? Zero or below zero?
This is theft of content. I paid for the 2014 versions of spells and items to be useable, not to have to copy them myself by hand. This is a bad decision that is anti-consumer and I really hope you guys reconsider, or I'll never give Wizards of the Coast, Hasbro or DND Beyond any of my money, ever again. There's plenty of competing systems out there, it might finally be time for me to try Pathfinder.
I cancelled my Master Tier sub when WotC tried to destroy the OGL, and only reconsidered *after* they walked it back and made the core rules free. Same here, as of this moment subscription is cancelled, and I won't reconsider unless this piss poor terrible decision is walked back. WotC keeps creating it's own bad press, it's almost funny, except I've paid you guys a lot of money for these books. This makes me regret ever going digital, and will likely keep me to either print in the future or websites that don't steal their content back when they want to make money on a new edition of something.
This is the most anti-consumer thing I have ever seen. Forcing the 2014 version of spells out of the character creator will create a whole host of problems for people deciding to stick with the older edition or for those who don’t want to update rules mid-longterm campaign. When a new edition comes out people don’t automatically want to upgrade to the newest edition. Some people might prefer how the older edition works and plays compared to the newer edition.
it also shows a huge lack of respect for the people who have purchased books on this website. They were sold as being usable with the character creator and by essentially forcing players to homebrew over 400 spells in order to maintain running a game in their preferred edition is like telling us very clearly you have zero respect for people and the money they spent unless they are willing to fork over even more money for the new books and to suck it up and play the game you think we want to play.
this shows that you don’t care about players or the game at all. It’s a clear message that wizards of the coast only wants to sell the latest book and will turn their back on loyal customers the second there is a chance to make another profit. You have a responsibility to people who purchased these books to give them the product they paid for. They paid for books that are marketed and described as being functional with the character creator.
I work in virtual table tops and know that it takes a significant amount of time to develop these toolsets. This wasn’t a “we can’t afford to have two rulesets” issue this was a clear and deliberate choice made by the company to prevent people from having access to the tools they paid for in order to promote sales of your new product. You can easily revert this change and offer the content in the character creator for people have paid for this content and restore faith in the people who have been loyal to dndbeyond for almost a decade. If you continue down this path and set this as your precedence as how you handle edition changes, what’s stopping you from doing this when the next edition comes out? If you move forward with this change. I can’t see myself moving forward with purchasing anymore first party digital dnd content. You need to seriously ask yourselves if pushing this new edition on consumers is worth losing your most loyal fan base.
If the removal of 2014 spells and magic items goes through I will be absolutely done with this company. I've spent hundreds this last year building my digital library for my players just to have the core of it gutted so you can force people into buying the new books. Shameful. I won't spend another penny here.
This is theft of content. I paid for the 2014 versions of spells and items to be useable, not to have to copy them myself by hand.
Exactly! I have absolutely zero plans to use 5e24 and will never purchase those books. They are taking away my access to build my characters using just 5e14 content. They are taking away the functionality that was built in to the digital versions of these books by revising all the tooltips to only point at 5e24 content.
They need to make the content I paid for accessible in the manner in which is has been or start issuing refunds.
As a player in a campaign that is going into a hybrid mode of 2014-2024 rules, depending on the wishes of the individual player (we have some people who we know will be sticking with the 2014 class for definite and some who are considering switching to 2024 once we've seen the rules in their entirity) and as someone who's co-running a 2014 RAW Discord server, this site change is going to be a nightmare. For us to stick to the 2014 rules, we are going to have to allow Homebrew be turned on (which we normally don't as we use the RAW as much as possible) and review every sheet's spell list and etc. at all times in order to ensure their usage of the 2014 versions is correct and functioning correctly. We may have the trust of our playerbase, but it is going to be ridiculously easy to make mistakes or deliberate edits to things in such a way as to slip through the cracks.
This is one of the worst decisions WOTC and/or the Beyond Team (we have no real way of knowing who's actually responsible for these decisions behind the scenes unless they come forward) could possibly have made in terms of player retention. Let's not pretend like there aren't many, many ways of utilising 2014 5e content without paying the company any bit of money (obviously not going to name any such sources here). All this is going to do is alienate long-time consumers of the decade-long tradition that is DnD 5e due to being incapable of accessing the rules they know and love on the platform they've paid for these rulesets on. The solution being offered being to go homebrew copies of things is in no way a sustainable solution, especially if all tooltips are going to link to the 2024 versions as opposed to the 2014 versions. We will have no way of knowing the range of things being affected until it is too late. The ability to toggle on and off access to many things (Partnered by specific source, expanded vs base rules, even 2014 Legacy content) is already codified into the site.
I would love to hear from a site admin / employee / team representative, in a public post focused on this issue and not just as a reply to this thread, what exactly the reasoning is behind basically forcing all of us who love, appreciate, and have spent countless hours and anywhere in the hundreds of dollars worth of our local currencies on building our best 2014 - no, our best DnD 5e experience - to adapt to the new ruleset that we might not want to reach out to yet? Why is it that you cannot use existing functionality within your site to keep it being accessible to 2014 players as well as the 2024 players to come? Could you explain it in such a way that someone not versed in coding and such could understand? And, if you read back your explanation, is it something that the billion-dollar company that owns the site could not solve with a bit of investment into customer retention?
Because that is what making this site fully accessible to the 2014 and 2024 rulesets will be. Retention of customers who utilise the subscription services. Retention of the loyal customers who have been screwed over repeatedly by the parent company recently. Retention of those of us who wish with all our hearts to continue playing the games we've been running and playing for years without having to adapt to a drastic change. Retention of those who are loyal to the ruleset we have grown to love and cherish and work within. Just scrolling through this thread demonstrates the level of retention this change is bringing - a negative level, as you are losing people. Please reconsider, for the sake of all of us who play this game.
Make a parallel version for the 2024 content. Do not remove the 2014. Put it on a toggle to let people switch between the two (or allow them to switch on both)
This should be an option like every other option in character creation.
Good idea with the script although I do wonder if they'll clamp down when requests keep on coming.
I've reflected on this over the last few hours and I've decided to cancel my Master tier subscription renewal until this is resolved. Sorry, but I'm running three 2014 campaigns and I don't need the hassle of attempting to discern what's 2014 and what's 2024 on my players' sheets. Back to pen and paper we go.
What's going to be interesting to watch is all of the actual plays on the internet like Critical Role, D20, etc. who use DnD beyond and are in the middle of campaigns, to suddenly be forced to swap rules and lose access to older spells and items. Let the confusion begin.
Welp, I'm not renewing my account, this is blatant greed and has turned me off from even wanting to try the new ruleset.
I paid for the books and access to the character creator, not just the books.
lets keep fingers crossed there's legal action against WOTC for this
This is not ok. Way to pull the rug out from under paying customers' feet. I paid hundreds of dollars for 2014 content and now I have to make homebrew copies to keep access? That's so messed up. Glad I already canceled my master subscription. Won't be purchasing anything else ever again, since I'll never know when you next decide to take something away. Trust irrevocably broken.
I cancelled my subscription. It's all I can do. I used to like beyond but **** this.
Its worse than that, all the ruleset changes reflect on th character sheets. So any changes like inspiration now ONLY show the 2024 version. This breaks everyone's character sheets unless they switch on launch.
So first, this is being handled terribly. Let people keep the content they payed for. Its not that hard. You already have the Legacy tag.
Second, will people who bought the 2014 content will be getting the 2024 version for free at least? I know most of the spells and Items will be covered in the basic rules/SRD but not all of them are.
Absolutely awful decision making here. Don't force us to homebrew the spells we want. Use a toggle like others have suggested and don't ruin the user experience for people who don't want to play 5.5.
I have a physical copy of the 2014 PHB. I bought a digital copy ON TOP of that specifically so that I could have the convenience of the Character Builder and other tools here on D&D Beyond. And now that's being taken away?
Can I get a refund on my 2014 digital PHB? Because I really think a refund is warranted. You sold it to me on the basis that it would make my life easier, and now you are reneging on the deal.
working with the tools that dnd beyond provides is a big part of the selling point of buying things on beyond in the first place, its very disappointing they would cut that
This is unacceptable. I'm losing the ability to use content I paid for on a service I'm continuing to pay for. You're degrading user experience to try to force them to use things they don't want.
Your homebrew tools don't even work.
I'm done. I'm done paying money for this useless service that only seems to get worse with time. I'm done buying anything from Hasbro. I'm done with the greed and idiotic decisions.
I've cancelled my sub for good and sent in a contact/email requesting how do I get refunds on all the content I've purchased and no longer accessible after the update goes live.
What are the chances they are willing give refunds? Zero or below zero?
This is theft of content. I paid for the 2014 versions of spells and items to be useable, not to have to copy them myself by hand. This is a bad decision that is anti-consumer and I really hope you guys reconsider, or I'll never give Wizards of the Coast, Hasbro or DND Beyond any of my money, ever again. There's plenty of competing systems out there, it might finally be time for me to try Pathfinder.
I cancelled my Master Tier sub when WotC tried to destroy the OGL, and only reconsidered *after* they walked it back and made the core rules free. Same here, as of this moment subscription is cancelled, and I won't reconsider unless this piss poor terrible decision is walked back. WotC keeps creating it's own bad press, it's almost funny, except I've paid you guys a lot of money for these books. This makes me regret ever going digital, and will likely keep me to either print in the future or websites that don't steal their content back when they want to make money on a new edition of something.
This is the most anti-consumer thing I have ever seen. Forcing the 2014 version of spells out of the character creator will create a whole host of problems for people deciding to stick with the older edition or for those who don’t want to update rules mid-longterm campaign. When a new edition comes out people don’t automatically want to upgrade to the newest edition. Some people might prefer how the older edition works and plays compared to the newer edition.
it also shows a huge lack of respect for the people who have purchased books on this website. They were sold as being usable with the character creator and by essentially forcing players to homebrew over 400 spells in order to maintain running a game in their preferred edition is like telling us very clearly you have zero respect for people and the money they spent unless they are willing to fork over even more money for the new books and to suck it up and play the game you think we want to play.
this shows that you don’t care about players or the game at all. It’s a clear message that wizards of the coast only wants to sell the latest book and will turn their back on loyal customers the second there is a chance to make another profit. You have a responsibility to people who purchased these books to give them the product they paid for. They paid for books that are marketed and described as being functional with the character creator.
I work in virtual table tops and know that it takes a significant amount of time to develop these toolsets. This wasn’t a “we can’t afford to have two rulesets” issue this was a clear and deliberate choice made by the company to prevent people from having access to the tools they paid for in order to promote sales of your new product. You can easily revert this change and offer the content in the character creator for people have paid for this content and restore faith in the people who have been loyal to dndbeyond for almost a decade. If you continue down this path and set this as your precedence as how you handle edition changes, what’s stopping you from doing this when the next edition comes out? If you move forward with this change. I can’t see myself moving forward with purchasing anymore first party digital dnd content. You need to seriously ask yourselves if pushing this new edition on consumers is worth losing your most loyal fan base.
If the removal of 2014 spells and magic items goes through I will be absolutely done with this company. I've spent hundreds this last year building my digital library for my players just to have the core of it gutted so you can force people into buying the new books. Shameful. I won't spend another penny here.
Exactly! I have absolutely zero plans to use 5e24 and will never purchase those books. They are taking away my access to build my characters using just 5e14 content. They are taking away the functionality that was built in to the digital versions of these books by revising all the tooltips to only point at 5e24 content.
They need to make the content I paid for accessible in the manner in which is has been or start issuing refunds.
As a player in a campaign that is going into a hybrid mode of 2014-2024 rules, depending on the wishes of the individual player (we have some people who we know will be sticking with the 2014 class for definite and some who are considering switching to 2024 once we've seen the rules in their entirity) and as someone who's co-running a 2014 RAW Discord server, this site change is going to be a nightmare. For us to stick to the 2014 rules, we are going to have to allow Homebrew be turned on (which we normally don't as we use the RAW as much as possible) and review every sheet's spell list and etc. at all times in order to ensure their usage of the 2014 versions is correct and functioning correctly. We may have the trust of our playerbase, but it is going to be ridiculously easy to make mistakes or deliberate edits to things in such a way as to slip through the cracks.
This is one of the worst decisions WOTC and/or the Beyond Team (we have no real way of knowing who's actually responsible for these decisions behind the scenes unless they come forward) could possibly have made in terms of player retention. Let's not pretend like there aren't many, many ways of utilising 2014 5e content without paying the company any bit of money (obviously not going to name any such sources here). All this is going to do is alienate long-time consumers of the decade-long tradition that is DnD 5e due to being incapable of accessing the rules they know and love on the platform they've paid for these rulesets on. The solution being offered being to go homebrew copies of things is in no way a sustainable solution, especially if all tooltips are going to link to the 2024 versions as opposed to the 2014 versions. We will have no way of knowing the range of things being affected until it is too late. The ability to toggle on and off access to many things (Partnered by specific source, expanded vs base rules, even 2014 Legacy content) is already codified into the site.
I would love to hear from a site admin / employee / team representative, in a public post focused on this issue and not just as a reply to this thread, what exactly the reasoning is behind basically forcing all of us who love, appreciate, and have spent countless hours and anywhere in the hundreds of dollars worth of our local currencies on building our best 2014 - no, our best DnD 5e experience - to adapt to the new ruleset that we might not want to reach out to yet? Why is it that you cannot use existing functionality within your site to keep it being accessible to 2014 players as well as the 2024 players to come? Could you explain it in such a way that someone not versed in coding and such could understand? And, if you read back your explanation, is it something that the billion-dollar company that owns the site could not solve with a bit of investment into customer retention?
Because that is what making this site fully accessible to the 2014 and 2024 rulesets will be. Retention of customers who utilise the subscription services. Retention of the loyal customers who have been screwed over repeatedly by the parent company recently. Retention of those of us who wish with all our hearts to continue playing the games we've been running and playing for years without having to adapt to a drastic change. Retention of those who are loyal to the ruleset we have grown to love and cherish and work within. Just scrolling through this thread demonstrates the level of retention this change is bringing - a negative level, as you are losing people. Please reconsider, for the sake of all of us who play this game.
Make a parallel version for the 2024 content. Do not remove the 2014.
Put it on a toggle to let people switch between the two (or allow them to switch on both)
This should be an option like every other option in character creation.
have to admit im genuinely confused why 2014 content cant just be a toggle on/off at the start of character creation?
aside from trying to strong arm people into adopting the not new edition of course