As I catch up it seems like this argument is honestly starting to lose focus. Not sure everyone has even read the original change log and if they did I'm not sure they actually really understood it.
Change is hard and you won't get everyone to agree on either side of this issue. Honestly, I say rip the bandaid off and move on. If you all are upset enough with DnDB to leave then that is your choice. But I think it's a mistake to assume either side of this argument is a majority or even right. You will hear more from those who are upset about the changes then those who are not. I say that not to discredit their complaints or grievances, but just as a point of fact. That dosen't mean that EVERYONE is unhappy with these changes, or a majority, or a minority. It just means that there are those who are upset and their opinions should be heard.
I personally don't agree with the need to keep 2014 content. I think it'd be better to move on as a community. If DnDB wants to do something for those who want to keep it then that's fine, unless in inconveniences me or my playground group in anyway. That includes me having to toggle or something stupid to use the current system. 2024 should be the standard and if people want to use old stuff then any inconvenience should be on that end. However, ideally there is no inconvenience for anyone.
Its been awhile since DnD had had a real good shake up. Like what 10 years since 4e to 5e? Other gaming communities go through this far more frequently than the DnD community and honestly handle it with far less drama. Lol 40K Blood Angels Players just got their new updates for 10th edition and literally retired half their army. A far more expensive purchase then DnD spells from the "Free" 2014 core rules being replaced with 2024 spells for "Free". (Yup I said it. I've read you're arguments twice already and we will not agree. Sadly that's the point). And 11th edition is likely going to be out in a year or too. I'm happy to not have to throw away any of my DnD 5e books and that this is not a new edition.
Bottom line is none of use can actually claim to speak for the majority of the community on one side of issue or the other and changes are coming. Be kind to one another despite you're arguments and keep your arguments about the issues not the people on the other side.
👀🍿🍿🍿 Continue.
It's a new edition whether you call it that or not. And removing the tools for using 2014 edition is going to wreck the game for millions of users.
As for majority vs minority, there's maybe like a dozen comments defending the changes in a sea of thousands. And millions of users don't even know yet that these changes are coming cause they don't read the forums.
It's not a new edition. This is nothing compared to the changes changes from 3.5E to 4E or 4E to 5E.
There reason there is a dosen or so comments defending the changes is because most people don't really care to debate it. I didn't even know people were upset about it until I saw a YouTube video about it. Most people I play with and my friends aren't upset about it.
Now that being said it would be great if everyone was able to have their grevinces taken care of and everyone was happy, but I'm not sure that's true.
I am looking forwards to the next iteration of DND and will likely buy it once its been out for a while and any issues/kinks etc have been worked out.
If I feel that I am being strong armed into purchasing it in order to continue my two year campaign without inconvenience then I absolutely will not. I will finish my current campaign out, cancel my DND beyond subscription and then look at a different service that can continue in the current ruleset because there are other options.
Not even remotely. You've put your need to... not have a toggle option in your character builder? over the basic needs of the rest of the community who don't want to lose the functionality that they paid for.
We're not agreeing to disagree over different reasonable priorities. You're demonstrating greed and fundamental lack of empathy, while saying buzzwords to make yourself sound like a reasonable peacekeeper. It's disgusting.
Haven't you? The point is no one really can speak for the community as a whole.
Ideally the whole situation can be resolved where everyone is happy and there has been some pretty good solutions brought forth. Hopefully in time DnDB can figure something out.
This appears to be yet another example of the complete lack of regard for the consumer base and the people who actually play the game. Without the ability to access and use every and all aspects of the the '14 ruleset in the character sheet, what's the point in continuing to utilize the tool? Pulling spells and items form the sheets will destabilize every single in-progress game, and only serves to incentivize users to switch to another format. I'm not a programmer by any means, but it seems the simple solution is to add a switch that enables or disables the new content just like we can with partnered content.
This is, simply put, yet another example of WotC and D&D Beyond attempting to squeeze every single penny they can from us. As a sales manager of nearly a decade, this is not how you develop a positive relationship with your clients. These types of practices only serve to alienate the people you're trying to build trust with.
My current group has already decided not to use D&D Beyond for our next campaign, and it's getting harder and harder to continue supporting the service. I implore D&D Beyond to listen to their players, and keep the content we paid for accessible in the character sheets. It's the right thing to do.
Look, all I know is if can't have the regular 5e content (that I paid for) on my character sheet like I do now (spells, items, features, feats) there is literally no point in using this platform and I will no longer put my money here. I'm not interested in the 2024 content at all and have no plans to add any of it to any campaign I play in.
I’m currently running a campaign utilizing the 5e 2014 rule set and have been for some time. While I’ve already pre purchased the new core rules (physical and digital) my players and I have already agreed that we will be running 2014 core rules until I’ve had time to dig into the new PHB, DMG, and MM. I want to make an educated and researched decision on if we will eventually transition or not for this campaign. Having a forced transition and forced rebuilding of the current characters is not why I’ve utilized this site and features. As with many in this thread, I would prefer a toggle to choose use of 2014 or 2024, when I the DM determine which system will be used! It has always been said in the books that it’s DM discretion; therefore do not take away our autonomy to determine how our games are played/run! D&D has been around for 50years now, and the thing that Wizards should know by now is “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
As I catch up it seems like this argument is honestly starting to lose focus. Not sure everyone has even read the original change log and if they did I'm not sure they actually really understood it.
Change is hard and you won't get everyone to agree on either side of this issue. Honestly, I say rip the bandaid off and move on. If you all are upset enough with DnDB to leave then that is your choice. But I think it's a mistake to assume either side of this argument is a majority or even right. You will hear more from those who are upset about the changes then those who are not. I say that not to discredit their complaints or grievances, but just as a point of fact. That dosen't mean that EVERYONE is unhappy with these changes, or a majority, or a minority. It just means that there are those who are upset and their opinions should be heard.
I personally don't agree with the need to keep 2014 content. I think it'd be better to move on as a community. If DnDB wants to do something for those who want to keep it then that's fine, unless in inconveniences me or my playground group in anyway. That includes me having to toggle or something stupid to use the current system. 2024 should be the standard and if people want to use old stuff then any inconvenience should be on that end. However, ideally there is no inconvenience for anyone.
Its been awhile since DnD had had a real good shake up. Like what 10 years since 4e to 5e? Other gaming communities go through this far more frequently than the DnD community and honestly handle it with far less drama. Lol 40K Blood Angels Players just got their new updates for 10th edition and literally retired half their army. A far more expensive purchase then DnD spells from the "Free" 2014 core rules being replaced with 2024 spells for "Free". (Yup I said it. I've read you're arguments twice already and we will not agree. Sadly that's the point). And 11th edition is likely going to be out in a year or too. I'm happy to not have to throw away any of my DnD 5e books and that this is not a new edition.
Bottom line is none of use can actually claim to speak for the majority of the community on one side of issue or the other and changes are coming. Be kind to one another despite you're arguments and keep your arguments about the issues not the people on the other side.
👀🍿🍿🍿 Continue.
It's a new edition whether you call it that or not. And removing the tools for using 2014 edition is going to wreck the game for millions of users.
As for majority vs minority, there's maybe like a dozen comments defending the changes in a sea of thousands. And millions of users don't even know yet that these changes are coming cause they don't read the forums.
It's not a new edition. This is nothing compared to the changes changes from 3.5E to 4E or 4E to 5E.
There reason there is a dosen or so comments defending the changes is because most people don't really care to debate it. I didn't even know people were upset about it until I saw a YouTube video about it. Most people I play with and my friends aren't upset about it.
Now that being said it would be great if everyone was able to have their grevinces taken care of and everyone was happy, but I'm not sure that's true.
Just because there's less change than previous versions doesn't mean it's not a new version. And it does have substantial changes since they had to release 3 whole new books to implement it.
The issue is they have decided to force this upon everyone and break existing character sheets by updating them to this new version when they expressly marketed the new version as backwards compatible and optional.
"I didn't even know people were upset about it until I saw a YouTube video about it"
This part just proves my point that people don't even know these changes are coming in a few days since the communication from WOTC has been abysmal. This should have been communicated 6 months ago and had a transition period of at least year. Instead the majority of users will have the rug pulled from under their feet next week when their character sheets are destroyed
I’m currently running a campaign utilizing the 5e 2014 rule set and have been for some time. While I’ve already pre purchased the new core rules (physical and digital) my players and I have already agreed that we will be running 2014 core rules until I’ve had time to dig into the new PHB, DMG, and MM. I want to make an educated and researched decision on if we will eventually transition or not for this campaign. Having a forced transition and forced rebuilding of the current characters is not why I’ve utilized this site and features. As with many in this thread, I would prefer a toggle to choose use of 2014 or 2024, when I the DM determine which system will be used! It has always been said in the books that it’s DM discretion; therefore do not take away our autonomy to determine how our games are played/run! D&D has been around for 50years now, and the thing that Wizards should know by now is “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
Exactly! Comfort and being informed as to the new rules is important.
I don't yet have a comprehensive understanding of all the new stuff. I've read some leaks, I participated in the playtest, but I don't have a copy of 2024 PHB in hand. It is (or at least was) entirely possible that, in the coming months, I'll decide to update my campaigns to the 2024 rules. It would be my decision, an informed decision, bolstered by informed discussion online and in-person of balance and other concerns that the new ruleset presents.
Forcing us to update, ahead of even the release of the book itself, is bizarre.
As I catch up it seems like this argument is honestly starting to lose focus. Not sure everyone has even read the original change log and if they did I'm not sure they actually really understood it.
Change is hard and you won't get everyone to agree on either side of this issue. Honestly, I say rip the bandaid off and move on. If you all are upset enough with DnDB to leave then that is your choice. But I think it's a mistake to assume either side of this argument is a majority or even right. You will hear more from those who are upset about the changes then those who are not. I say that not to discredit their complaints or grievances, but just as a point of fact. That dosen't mean that EVERYONE is unhappy with these changes, or a majority, or a minority. It just means that there are those who are upset and their opinions should be heard.
I personally don't agree with the need to keep 2014 content. I think it'd be better to move on as a community. If DnDB wants to do something for those who want to keep it then that's fine, unless in inconveniences me or my playground group in anyway. That includes me having to toggle or something stupid to use the current system. 2024 should be the standard and if people want to use old stuff then any inconvenience should be on that end. However, ideally there is no inconvenience for anyone.
Its been awhile since DnD had had a real good shake up. Like what 10 years since 4e to 5e? Other gaming communities go through this far more frequently than the DnD community and honestly handle it with far less drama. Lol 40K Blood Angels Players just got their new updates for 10th edition and literally retired half their army. A far more expensive purchase then DnD spells from the "Free" 2014 core rules being replaced with 2024 spells for "Free". (Yup I said it. I've read you're arguments twice already and we will not agree. Sadly that's the point). And 11th edition is likely going to be out in a year or too. I'm happy to not have to throw away any of my DnD 5e books and that this is not a new edition.
Bottom line is none of use can actually claim to speak for the majority of the community on one side of issue or the other and changes are coming. Be kind to one another despite you're arguments and keep your arguments about the issues not the people on the other side.
👀🍿🍿🍿 Continue.
It's a new edition whether you call it that or not. And removing the tools for using 2014 edition is going to wreck the game for millions of users.
As for majority vs minority, there's maybe like a dozen comments defending the changes in a sea of thousands. And millions of users don't even know yet that these changes are coming cause they don't read the forums.
It's not a new edition. This is nothing compared to the changes changes from 3.5E to 4E or 4E to 5E.
There reason there is a dosen or so comments defending the changes is because most people don't really care to debate it. I didn't even know people were upset about it until I saw a YouTube video about it. Most people I play with and my friends aren't upset about it.
Now that being said it would be great if everyone was able to have their grevinces taken care of and everyone was happy, but I'm not sure that's true.
Just because there's less change than previous versions doesn't mean it's not a new version. And it does have substantial changes since they had to release 3 whole new books to implement it.
The issue is they have decided to force this upon everyone and break existing character sheets by updating them to this new version when they expressly marketed the new version as backwards compatible and optional.
"I didn't even know people were upset about it until I saw a YouTube video about it"
This part just proves my point that people don't even know these changes are coming in a few days since the communication from WOTC has been abysmal. This should have been communicated 6 months ago and had a transition period of at least year. Instead the majority of users will have the rug pulled from under their feet next week when their character sheets are destroyed
That's a fair point but I still wouldn't say it's as big as a change as it could have been. And I'm happy it wasn't larger ya know.
Agreed. I definitely think that users being forced without lack of choice is the core issue. Dnd Players like their agency after all.
And your last point is also fair. I definitely think this transition could have been handled better. On a number of levels... lol.
I do think it's unrealistic to expect DnDB to respond immediately and in this actual forum (not directed at you Caito I'm just saying in general terms of the conversation). They will need time to formulate their responses. And ultimately not everyone will be happy.
I am the last member of a multi year party who did not unsubscribe over the last mess. In fact, I was considering subscribing at the Hero level to share my content with another party I play with. If the old style character sheets are not available on day one, I will be abandoning DnDBeyond and using something else.
I'd prefer if I had to pay for the new ruleset rather than it being forced upon me. I only use DnD Beyond for convenience and now it's getting less convenient.This might be the last push I need to move on to Pathfinder or something else. You know, a better company that cares more about it's consumers.
Joining the myriad chorus— I’ve cancelled my sub and don’t plan to spend another dollar on this site. I should have cancelled much earlier, but I’ve been too trusting.
This is simply the last straw over the course of years. Between missing baseline features like boons and unsupported class features, memory leaks causing the website to break over faulty code that’s never been fixed or even addressed, falsely promising homebrew classes and increased homebrew support, the OGL fiasco, the removal of a la carte purchases, and now making my 5e character sheets incompatible with all of my 5e games before even being able to read the new PHB and determine if I like the rules or not…
Joining the myriad chorus— I’ve cancelled my sub and don’t plan to spend another dollar on this site. I should have cancelled much earlier, but I’ve been too trusting.
This is simply the last straw over the course of years. Between missing baseline features like boons and unsupported class features, memory leaks causing the website to break over faulty code that’s never been fixed or even addressed, falsely promising homebrew classes and increased homebrew support, the OGL fiasco, the removal of a la carte purchases, and now making my 5e character sheets incompatible with all of my 5e games before even being able to read the new PHB and determine if I like the rules or not…
This is not acceptable. We have all paid lots of money to buy content through this site to use during character creation and campaigns and now the thing we have paid for is either being taken away and replaced with a thing of lesser quality and value (the compendium) or updated so it's no longer compatible with the rules that I paid for and thus invalidates my games and other historical content.
It is well within your ability to set a flag on a character that says only use 5.24e rules. Am considering raising an issue with my credit card supplier as failure to supply goods and services as described
I’m currently running a campaign utilizing the 5e 2014 rule set and have been for some time. While I’ve already pre purchased the new core rules (physical and digital) my players and I have already agreed that we will be running 2014 core rules until I’ve had time to dig into the new PHB, DMG, and MM. I want to make an educated and researched decision on if we will eventually transition or not for this campaign. Having a forced transition and forced rebuilding of the current characters is not why I’ve utilized this site and features. As with many in this thread, I would prefer a toggle to choose use of 2014 or 2024, when I the DM determine which system will be used! It has always been said in the books that it’s DM discretion; therefore do not take away our autonomy to determine how our games are played/run! D&D has been around for 50years now, and the thing that Wizards should know by now is “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
Exactly! Comfort and being informed as to the new rules is important.
I don't yet have a comprehensive understanding of all the new stuff. I've read some leaks, I participated in the playtest, but I don't have a copy of 2024 PHB in hand. It is (or at least was) entirely possible that, in the coming months, I'll decide to update my campaigns to the 2024 rules. It would be my decision, an informed decision, bolstered by informed discussion online and in-person of balance and other concerns that the new ruleset presents.
Forcing us to update, ahead of even the release of the book itself, is bizarre.
What they are doing is truly indefencible. The only logical reason for them to force us to use the 2024 update BEFORE the release of the 2024 source books is to try strong arming everyone using this site into pre-ordering the new books.
They haven't even considered that forcing us to use 2024 rules & content while TAKING AWAY content we already paid for when we still in the middle of using it is absolutely disgusting and completely disrespectful to their community.
Imagine playing or running a campaign for years only for the rules of the campaign to suddenly change without your permission while taking away spells, items and monsters you have been using for years. The subclasses you and your friends are playing broken by a forced update and not even homebrew able to fix these issues. It's a complete slap in the face to everyone currently running campaigns under the 2014 rules who want to carry on doing so.
I put in a support ticket to cancel and refund my pre-order of the 2024 PHP here, and a separate support ticket to cancel and refund my Master Tier Subscription last night that was charged a few weeks ago, since I can no longer use it go share functional 2014 character sheets with the 3 full spellcasters in one of my 4 groups (I don't DM, I'm player in all 4 of my current groups).
I've been using this site for years and only buying digital copies of content here for physical D&D books I already own for the sole purpose and convenience of use in the character sheet tool.
I just looked into my order history on this site, and rounding you to the nearest USD, it came out to $ 593 USD since October 2018. It doesn't look at a glance to me like any of my subscribtion fees were part of that total, but I hope folks will understand that I didn't want to click on each purchase individually to see what it was. This total also does NOT include any of the numerous physical D&D books I've purchased for myself or gifted to friends.
If I've always used my purchases on this platform to use in character sheet tool for ease of use... what would be the use case for my past purchases here when I'm not the DM in the 4 D&D games I'm a player in, and have no say in when the groups adopt to the 2024 spell rules, if they do at all.
I fully realize this major issue is more likely due to Hasbro and/or WotC not giving the DnDBeyond team the proper time and resources to roll out the launch of the new rules, and I do feel for them.
But if the current plan to body the 2014 spells' use in character sheet tool on DnDB... what possible use case is left for this site that I've spent hundreds of dollars on and have recommended to dozens of people.
2 of my friends that DM have recently asked me if I thought it'd be easy to convert their 2014 games to 2024 once the new rules drop. I told them I thought it would be relatively easy, and that the newest players in their first campaign could keep using their 2014 character unchanged... but this seems to be bad advice I've given them. Now I have to tell them they probably need to wait to see how things shake put before jumping into new rules in the middle of their campaigns since some of their players use DnDB for character sheets.
Even if this all gets fixed so folks can use the 2014 rules with the character sheets tool they thought they were paying for all these years. What confidence has been given to heavily engaged consumers like me that any future purchases I make on this site would retain basic functionality the next time WotC updates rules?
Again, want to express I feel for the D&D Beyond team. But I don't understand how the C-suite at Hasbro gets huge paydays and gets to keep their jobs when WotC is the only company they own that makes significant revenue, but C-suite doesn't make sure WotC has enough staff for PR, game design, and DnD Beyond team.
Appologies for such a long post on such a long thread... but this is the first time in 4 years I've felt I needed to post on DnD Beyond.
I hope Hasbro and/or WotC gives the DnD Beyond team the resources and authority to make all this right. And I also hope they keep them sufficiently staffed and funded going forward so large unforced errors like this don't happen again.
Now in a few hours instead of getting to explore Ravenloft with my friends, I get to find out at our session if any of them own the physical books or know how to use character sheets outside of D&Beyond. Could have been a fun afternoon. : /
Why do people keep saying "90% of spells are the same" or "It's only a few spells that have changed" or "Just a few dozen."
This does not appear to be true.
According to a reputable source, there are 106 spells that have been mechanically changed in some way. (From what I can see here)
On top of that, in order to effectively restore your access to these original versions of spells and their functionality in the character sheet, you would not only need to homebrew these spells manually, you would also need to homebrew the following features: (As mentioned elsewhere in this thread by WolfmanRIP)
Every subclass that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every item that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every warlock invocation that grants spells - these cannot be homebrewed and will not be usable with 2014 rules
Every class that grants extra spells (mainly through the Tasha's expanded spell lists) - as far as I know these also cannot be homebrewed so will be unusable.
Every monster that casts spells will need to be homebrewed
(Adding one of my own here) Every mundane and magical item that is being changed with the new ruleset (the numbers of which are as of yet unknown)
Which is, of course, to speak nothing about the actual monetary value that every single person who has purchased digital rulebooks from D&D Beyond is losing out on.
It's been argued ad nauseam but we say it louder for the people in the back.
The vast majority of those upset feel they have been wronged because when they purchased the digital copies of these books, they bought into an agreement, understanding, promise, whatever you wish to call it, that they would be able to utilize this content, AS STATED IN THE PRODUCT DETAILS TO THIS VERY DAY, within D&D Beyond's "Digital Toolset".
When this functionality is removed from the site, those of us who specifically purchased access to use this content in the Digital Toolset will effectively have the primary purpose of our purchases ripped away from us. This is what we find unacceptable. This is what we find objectionable.
We recognize that there are people who are happy to receive these updates for free. We understand that they see this as 'getting something instead of nothing'.
But WE DO NOT SEE IT THE SAME WAY. It is clear, if you take just a brief glance around the various D&D communities around the internet that a significant majority of discourse centers around the fact that we FIND LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN THE 2024 RULESET that we will be receiving because we DID NOT ASK FOR IT AND DO NOT WANT TO USE IT.
The decisions by whatever powers that be to take a Profit focused approach (Because it is very clear that this is a push to 'encourage' long-standing members of the D&D Beyond community to spend even more money buying into updated systems they do not want or need by cutting off their access to the Digital Toolset they have already paid to use), is predatory, insulting, and a betrayal of their userbase.
What would we like to be done about it?
I would hope the answer to that question would be obvious.
Must-Have: - Creating a duplicate database for the 2014 content that, upon character/campaign creation, can be selected, via a toggle, dropdown menu, etc, as the primary ruleset for said character/campaign which would allow new and existing 5e characters and campaigns to proceed unchanged. Would be Nice: - Develop a system to migrate existing 2014 characters/campaigns to the updated 2024 ruleset for those who wish to opt-in to the new rules in the future. Pipe-Dream: - Assurances that support for 2014 content within the Digital Toolset will be protected for as long as a significant portion (Can be defined later) of the userbase of D&D Beyond still utilizes the game-system.
Please Note:I, by no means, speak for everyone who is upset by these changes, but I have seen a significant amount of people making these statements all across the internet.
If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, it is not due to intentional malice, and is very likely due to my own incompetency.
I'm on 3 games using 2014 right now, none of which have decided whether we want to switch to 2024. I think it is a better ruleset but change is hard and some people just want to show up, roll some dice, and make some inappropriate jokes at the DMs expense (and that is totally fine)
However I beg of you, please read what they are ACTUALLY SAYING and not what some rage baiting 3rd party is spewing for clout or clicks. 2014 will continue to exist both on the compendium and character sheet. It will not be forced upon you, DDB will not change your characters. The only thing they are updating on the character sheet automatically are the 2 items OP cited and the spells that appear in both 2014 and 2024. (My guess is that the changes are so small they decided not to spend resources forking those databases like the monsters and classes are)
If any of my players' characters use one of those spells, and if those spells have changed, and if the change is bad I'll gladly take a couple of minutes of my prep to homebrew the old version for them. Otherwise, I think they wouldn't even notice
Joining the chorus here - I'm currently in the middle of several years-long 5e campaigns with years left on them, both as a player and as a DM. My fellow players and I were loyal users of DnDBeyond. As brand new players in 2020 (edit: corrected date), it's how we learned the game. One of our players bought the digital versions of almost all of the books and shared that content with the party. In terms of 5.5e, we decided to hold off until we have a chance to really dig into the new updates to decide on what changes we want to make. This rollout is taking that choice away from us on spells and magic items, for seemingly no reason- if you can legacy tag everything else, why can't you have a legacy tag for spells? Why make everyone homebrew them in and bloat your servers instead of having centralized versions of the 2014 spells- like you already do?
At this point, we use DnDBeyond sheets largely for the convenience of having the spell lists and spell information easily accessible in the character sheet. With that functionality ripped away for our 5e games, we see no need to continue using and subscribing to the website.
It's change management 101 to clearly communicate with your users what is and is not going to change. It's bad practice that this was announced in a changelog a mere two weeks before implementation and not in a public email or article. It's yet another indication that WotC does not care about nor respect its consumers. I strongly encourage WotC to reconsider its decision on forcibly transitioning all spells to the new version. Deleting content with no explanation as to why and having a lack of transparency about rollout is not how you garner good will about change.
It's not a new edition. This is nothing compared to the changes changes from 3.5E to 4E or 4E to 5E.
There reason there is a dosen or so comments defending the changes is because most people don't really care to debate it. I didn't even know people were upset about it until I saw a YouTube video about it. Most people I play with and my friends aren't upset about it.
Now that being said it would be great if everyone was able to have their grevinces taken care of and everyone was happy, but I'm not sure that's true.
I am looking forwards to the next iteration of DND and will likely buy it once its been out for a while and any issues/kinks etc have been worked out.
If I feel that I am being strong armed into purchasing it in order to continue my two year campaign without inconvenience then I absolutely will not. I will finish my current campaign out, cancel my DND beyond subscription and then look at a different service that can continue in the current ruleset because there are other options.
Haven't you? The point is no one really can speak for the community as a whole.
Ideally the whole situation can be resolved where everyone is happy and there has been some pretty good solutions brought forth. Hopefully in time DnDB can figure something out.
This appears to be yet another example of the complete lack of regard for the consumer base and the people who actually play the game. Without the ability to access and use every and all aspects of the the '14 ruleset in the character sheet, what's the point in continuing to utilize the tool? Pulling spells and items form the sheets will destabilize every single in-progress game, and only serves to incentivize users to switch to another format. I'm not a programmer by any means, but it seems the simple solution is to add a switch that enables or disables the new content just like we can with partnered content.
This is, simply put, yet another example of WotC and D&D Beyond attempting to squeeze every single penny they can from us. As a sales manager of nearly a decade, this is not how you develop a positive relationship with your clients. These types of practices only serve to alienate the people you're trying to build trust with.
My current group has already decided not to use D&D Beyond for our next campaign, and it's getting harder and harder to continue supporting the service. I implore D&D Beyond to listen to their players, and keep the content we paid for accessible in the character sheets. It's the right thing to do.
Look, all I know is if can't have the regular 5e content (that I paid for) on my character sheet like I do now (spells, items, features, feats) there is literally no point in using this platform and I will no longer put my money here. I'm not interested in the 2024 content at all and have no plans to add any of it to any campaign I play in.
I’m currently running a campaign utilizing the 5e 2014 rule set and have been for some time. While I’ve already pre purchased the new core rules (physical and digital) my players and I have already agreed that we will be running 2014 core rules until I’ve had time to dig into the new PHB, DMG, and MM. I want to make an educated and researched decision on if we will eventually transition or not for this campaign. Having a forced transition and forced rebuilding of the current characters is not why I’ve utilized this site and features. As with many in this thread, I would prefer a toggle to choose use of 2014 or 2024, when I the DM determine which system will be used! It has always been said in the books that it’s DM discretion; therefore do not take away our autonomy to determine how our games are played/run! D&D has been around for 50years now, and the thing that Wizards should know by now is “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
Just because there's less change than previous versions doesn't mean it's not a new version. And it does have substantial changes since they had to release 3 whole new books to implement it.
The issue is they have decided to force this upon everyone and break existing character sheets by updating them to this new version when they expressly marketed the new version as backwards compatible and optional.
"I didn't even know people were upset about it until I saw a YouTube video about it"
This part just proves my point that people don't even know these changes are coming in a few days since the communication from WOTC has been abysmal. This should have been communicated 6 months ago and had a transition period of at least year. Instead the majority of users will have the rug pulled from under their feet next week when their character sheets are destroyed
Exactly! Comfort and being informed as to the new rules is important.
I don't yet have a comprehensive understanding of all the new stuff. I've read some leaks, I participated in the playtest, but I don't have a copy of 2024 PHB in hand. It is (or at least was) entirely possible that, in the coming months, I'll decide to update my campaigns to the 2024 rules. It would be my decision, an informed decision, bolstered by informed discussion online and in-person of balance and other concerns that the new ruleset presents.
Forcing us to update, ahead of even the release of the book itself, is bizarre.
That's a fair point but I still wouldn't say it's as big as a change as it could have been. And I'm happy it wasn't larger ya know.
Agreed. I definitely think that users being forced without lack of choice is the core issue. Dnd Players like their agency after all.
And your last point is also fair. I definitely think this transition could have been handled better. On a number of levels... lol.
I do think it's unrealistic to expect DnDB to respond immediately and in this actual forum (not directed at you Caito I'm just saying in general terms of the conversation). They will need time to formulate their responses. And ultimately not everyone will be happy.
I am the last member of a multi year party who did not unsubscribe over the last mess. In fact, I was considering subscribing at the Hero level to share my content with another party I play with. If the old style character sheets are not available on day one, I will be abandoning DnDBeyond and using something else.
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!
I'd prefer if I had to pay for the new ruleset rather than it being forced upon me. I only use DnD Beyond for convenience and now it's getting less convenient.This might be the last push I need to move on to Pathfinder or something else. You know, a better company that cares more about it's consumers.
Joining the myriad chorus— I’ve cancelled my sub and don’t plan to spend another dollar on this site. I should have cancelled much earlier, but I’ve been too trusting.
This is simply the last straw over the course of years. Between missing baseline features like boons and unsupported class features, memory leaks causing the website to break over faulty code that’s never been fixed or even addressed, falsely promising homebrew classes and increased homebrew support, the OGL fiasco, the removal of a la carte purchases, and now making my 5e character sheets incompatible with all of my 5e games before even being able to read the new PHB and determine if I like the rules or not…
I can’t say I have any faith in WotC anymore.
this!
This is not acceptable. We have all paid lots of money to buy content through this site to use during character creation and campaigns and now the thing we have paid for is either being taken away and replaced with a thing of lesser quality and value (the compendium) or updated so it's no longer compatible with the rules that I paid for and thus invalidates my games and other historical content.
It is well within your ability to set a flag on a character that says only use 5.24e rules. Am considering raising an issue with my credit card supplier as failure to supply goods and services as described
Hey, thanks for the clarification!
I know the signal-to-noise ratio on this change is awful right now, but I wanted to thank you for letting me try D&D 2024 before I decide to buy it
What they are doing is truly indefencible. The only logical reason for them to force us to use the 2024 update BEFORE the release of the 2024 source books is to try strong arming everyone using this site into pre-ordering the new books.
They haven't even considered that forcing us to use 2024 rules & content while TAKING AWAY content we already paid for when we still in the middle of using it is absolutely disgusting and completely disrespectful to their community.
Imagine playing or running a campaign for years only for the rules of the campaign to suddenly change without your permission while taking away spells, items and monsters you have been using for years. The subclasses you and your friends are playing broken by a forced update and not even homebrew able to fix these issues. It's a complete slap in the face to everyone currently running campaigns under the 2014 rules who want to carry on doing so.
I put in a support ticket to cancel and refund my pre-order of the 2024 PHP here, and a separate support ticket to cancel and refund my Master Tier Subscription last night that was charged a few weeks ago, since I can no longer use it go share functional 2014 character sheets with the 3 full spellcasters in one of my 4 groups (I don't DM, I'm player in all 4 of my current groups).
I've been using this site for years and only buying digital copies of content here for physical D&D books I already own for the sole purpose and convenience of use in the character sheet tool.
I just looked into my order history on this site, and rounding you to the nearest USD, it came out to $ 593 USD since October 2018. It doesn't look at a glance to me like any of my subscribtion fees were part of that total, but I hope folks will understand that I didn't want to click on each purchase individually to see what it was. This total also does NOT include any of the numerous physical D&D books I've purchased for myself or gifted to friends.
If I've always used my purchases on this platform to use in character sheet tool for ease of use... what would be the use case for my past purchases here when I'm not the DM in the 4 D&D games I'm a player in, and have no say in when the groups adopt to the 2024 spell rules, if they do at all.
I fully realize this major issue is more likely due to Hasbro and/or WotC not giving the DnDBeyond team the proper time and resources to roll out the launch of the new rules, and I do feel for them.
But if the current plan to body the 2014 spells' use in character sheet tool on DnDB... what possible use case is left for this site that I've spent hundreds of dollars on and have recommended to dozens of people.
2 of my friends that DM have recently asked me if I thought it'd be easy to convert their 2014 games to 2024 once the new rules drop. I told them I thought it would be relatively easy, and that the newest players in their first campaign could keep using their 2014 character unchanged... but this seems to be bad advice I've given them. Now I have to tell them they probably need to wait to see how things shake put before jumping into new rules in the middle of their campaigns since some of their players use DnDB for character sheets.
Even if this all gets fixed so folks can use the 2014 rules with the character sheets tool they thought they were paying for all these years. What confidence has been given to heavily engaged consumers like me that any future purchases I make on this site would retain basic functionality the next time WotC updates rules?
Again, want to express I feel for the D&D Beyond team. But I don't understand how the C-suite at Hasbro gets huge paydays and gets to keep their jobs when WotC is the only company they own that makes significant revenue, but C-suite doesn't make sure WotC has enough staff for PR, game design, and DnD Beyond team.
Appologies for such a long post on such a long thread... but this is the first time in 4 years I've felt I needed to post on DnD Beyond.
I hope Hasbro and/or WotC gives the DnD Beyond team the resources and authority to make all this right. And I also hope they keep them sufficiently staffed and funded going forward so large unforced errors like this don't happen again.
Now in a few hours instead of getting to explore Ravenloft with my friends, I get to find out at our session if any of them own the physical books or know how to use character sheets outside of D&Beyond. Could have been a fun afternoon. : /
THIS. This. A thousand times this.
I'm on 3 games using 2014 right now, none of which have decided whether we want to switch to 2024. I think it is a better ruleset but change is hard and some people just want to show up, roll some dice, and make some inappropriate jokes at the DMs expense (and that is totally fine)
However I beg of you, please read what they are ACTUALLY SAYING and not what some rage baiting 3rd party is spewing for clout or clicks. 2014 will continue to exist both on the compendium and character sheet. It will not be forced upon you, DDB will not change your characters. The only thing they are updating on the character sheet automatically are the 2 items OP cited and the spells that appear in both 2014 and 2024. (My guess is that the changes are so small they decided not to spend resources forking those databases like the monsters and classes are)
If any of my players' characters use one of those spells, and if those spells have changed, and if the change is bad I'll gladly take a couple of minutes of my prep to homebrew the old version for them. Otherwise, I think they wouldn't even notice
Joining the chorus here - I'm currently in the middle of several years-long 5e campaigns with years left on them, both as a player and as a DM. My fellow players and I were loyal users of DnDBeyond. As brand new players in 2020 (edit: corrected date), it's how we learned the game. One of our players bought the digital versions of almost all of the books and shared that content with the party. In terms of 5.5e, we decided to hold off until we have a chance to really dig into the new updates to decide on what changes we want to make. This rollout is taking that choice away from us on spells and magic items, for seemingly no reason- if you can legacy tag everything else, why can't you have a legacy tag for spells? Why make everyone homebrew them in and bloat your servers instead of having centralized versions of the 2014 spells- like you already do?
At this point, we use DnDBeyond sheets largely for the convenience of having the spell lists and spell information easily accessible in the character sheet. With that functionality ripped away for our 5e games, we see no need to continue using and subscribing to the website.
It's change management 101 to clearly communicate with your users what is and is not going to change. It's bad practice that this was announced in a changelog a mere two weeks before implementation and not in a public email or article. It's yet another indication that WotC does not care about nor respect its consumers. I strongly encourage WotC to reconsider its decision on forcibly transitioning all spells to the new version. Deleting content with no explanation as to why and having a lack of transparency about rollout is not how you garner good will about change.