Are the 2014 Spells not in the 2014 Core rules (wich are free and no one paid for)?
That question is rhetorical...
Buying the 2014 PHB is not the same as having the Free 2014 Core Rules.
Most of the 2014 spells, some of the subclasses, and some of the magic items are indeed in the 2014 version of the SRD. Not all though. If you're already using the 2014 SRD and nothing else, then you have to change nothing. if you were planning on updating to the 2024 SRD, then initially all you would need to do was print copies of the new SRD. I may have misunderstood your comment I replied to earlier, sorry.
I've sent inquiry on the support whether I would be eligible for a refund, if they make the update. Not really sure how it turns out, but my reasoning is that the changes they're planning are misleading with the premises on which the digital content was sold (i.e. 2014 spells not being available in the "official digital toolset".
Spells: When updated, Spell descriptions on character sheets will default to 2024 Core Rulebook descriptions. All users, regardless of whether they have purchased the 2024 Player’s Handbook, will be able to access these updated Spells for free if they previously purchased the 2014 Player’s Handbook. All 2014 versions of Spells will still be accessible in the D&D Beyond Compendium and available for players to access.
Marketing material: "Purchasing a digital copy of this book unlocks it for use in the D&D BEYOND compendium and toolset. D&D BEYOND is the official digital toolset for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
Yeah, I'd hate to have to cancel the D&D Beyond subscription at this moment because of ongoing campaigns, but getting a refund for all the content I've purchased (basically everything) would certainly make it worthwhile economically. If my 2014 digital copies are no longer used AS IS in the D&D BEYOND toolset, then that seems to contradict the market material.
a poor argument when folks are going to homebrew stuff back in and its going to make MORE server space just for all the people homebrewing things back in
Are the 2014 Spells not in the 2014 Core rules (wich are free and no one paid for)?
That question is rhetorical...
Buying the 2014 PHB is not the same as having the Free 2014 Core Rules.
Most of the 2014 spells, some of the subclasses, and some of the magic items are indeed in the 2014 version of the SRD. Not all though. If you're already using the 2014 SRD and nothing else, then you have to change nothing. if you were planning on updating to the 2024 SRD, then initially all you would need to do was print copies of the new SRD. I may have misunderstood your comment I replied to earlier, sorry.
They are dismissive to the abuse and harm being thrown at those who give honest disagreement, not to the point of people being dissatisfied. The arrogant language used by the OP there to "correct" them is purely semantical. Changing "some" to "very, very, very small" and "overwhelming vast majority" is trying to dismiss the mod's overall point of community safety and respect. It also is not coming from a place of education on the numbers for each side. OP did no polling or surveying. They made an assumption and "corrected" someone who has more information than them on the topic, who wasn't even talking about what the OP is deciding to nitpick.
bit confused why they need to legacy into compendium, existing features already have a search setting for "Source" and when Multiverse(among others) dropped the current character creator simply relisted Legacy versions still in the same selection list but at the bottom, also of concern is how AVRAE will be affected in its access to 2014 content
I've sent inquiry on the support whether I would be eligible for a refund, if they make the update. Not really sure how it turns out, but my reasoning is that the changes they're planning are misleading with the premises on which the digital content was sold (i.e. 2014 spells not being available in the "official digital toolset".
Spells: When updated, Spell descriptions on character sheets will default to 2024 Core Rulebook descriptions. All users, regardless of whether they have purchased the 2024 Player’s Handbook, will be able to access these updated Spells for free if they previously purchased the 2014 Player’s Handbook. All 2014 versions of Spells will still be accessible in the D&D Beyond Compendium and available for players to access.
Marketing material: "Purchasing a digital copy of this book unlocks it for use in the D&D BEYOND compendium and toolset. D&D BEYOND is the official digital toolset for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
Yeah, I'd hate to have to cancel the D&D Beyond subscription at this moment because of ongoing campaigns, but getting a refund for all the content I've purchased (basically everything) would certainly make it worthwhile economically. If my 2014 digital copies are no longer used AS IS in the D&D BEYOND toolset, then that seems to contradict the market material.
Yeah... I'm not too keen on pursuing the refund, I'd rather just would continue using the content I've purchased. Hopefully the corporate leaders at hasbro and wotc let me do so.
I think what’s wildly frustrating and upsetting to a lot of people is that systems are already in place on dndbeyond to be able to toggle content on and off, and to flag things as legacy.
You’re working against systems you’ve already used just to tick people off and push an update onto people mid-campaigns. I was excited to look at the new spells and items before I read further and saw that it was a forced update. Now I’m just disgusted.
bit confused why they need to legacy into compendium, existing features already have a search setting for "Source" and when Multiverse(among others) dropped the current character creator simply relisted Legacy versions still in the same selection list but at the bottom, also of concern is how AVRAE will be affected in its access to 2014 content
Avrae is a concern for me beyond my voiced campaigns too.
Does anyone have an idea of how it will be impacted? I think it should be fine because the automation is done with the bot right? Presumably as long as all characters maintain their current spell lists it should still be able to automate them?
When everybody is demanding the same thing you can absolutely appease everyone involved easily. The consistent demand is we just want to continue to use the app, character builder and VTT features with 5E content.
Unfortunately not EVERYONE is. There is clearly a number of folks who are wanting this, but there is no empirical data to support the amount of people for or against this. I see a survey in the distance.
I frankly don't care. There is maybe 4 spells from 2014 that I might consider still using. I think it's a waste of time for DnDB to legacy tag the old spells.
Bur if they did, it wouldn't bother me either.
Not every is 100% agreed, true. But when
- 95% want X,
- 4.9% want Y but don't care about X
- and only 0.1% actively want X removed
it seems a clear indication that X should be kept. Especially when X & Y can exist side by side and keep (almost) everyone happy.
"Some people are okay with these changes, and some are not"
Let me correct that for you...
"A very, very, very small percentage of people are okay with these changes, while the overwhelmingly vast majority of people are not"
Semantics. People who have negative opinions are generally more vocal about their displeasure than those who are okay with something. Those who are okay with something, as I'm seeing here, are quick to be called 'shills', 'sheep', or any other negative moniker.
This is alarmingly dismissive imo. People have valid concerns and I’m not sure how there’s a positive opinion about this when content is being forced upon people.
I would love to see a solid positive argument why this is good for anyone that isn’t just “it’s good for WOTC’s bottom line” because that’s the only reason I see for this.
I didn’t want the U2 album forced onto my iTunes; I don’t want 2024 content forced onto my character sheet.
Accidentally did it as a reply before, when I meant to quote.
They are dismissive to the abuse and harm being thrown at those who give honest disagreement, not to the point of people being dissatisfied. The arrogant language used by the OP there to "correct" them is purely semantical. Changing "some" to "very, very, very small" and "overwhelming vast majority" is trying to dismiss the mod's overall point of community safety and respect. It also is not coming from a place of education on the numbers for each side. OP did no polling or surveying; they made an assumption and "corrected" someone who has more information than them on the topic, who wasn't even talking about what the OP is deciding to nitpick.
I'm also increasingly concerned about how this looks for onboarding new players. We don't know when this switch is going to happen, and currently all physical game materials (unsurprisingly) use 2014 base mechanics/spells/etc. More importantly, the currently-available Starter Set, which isn't all that old, uses 2014 rules and is actively being promoted and sold. If I remember correctly, it includes advertising for D&D Beyond. What are those new players going to think when they get here and the core feature promoted (character sheets) have different information from what they just learned. Maybe it's just me, but I get spectacularly frustrated and demoralized when I've put effort into learning something, especially from an authority (official material), only to be told that it's wrong (by the same authority, no less)! Unless we expect new players to dig into the upcoming 2024 SRD and/or a complex and expensive new rulebook, they're going to feel pretty alienated.
(Educators are in a similar boat, btw. All the material that teachers or librarians will be using at the start of the school year for clubs is going to be 2014 rules.)
It's just bewildering that this change is happening at all (without a toggle), but especially before 2024 physical material is widely available. Severe disconnect.
The change is going to occur on 9/3 with the early release of the 2024 update, per the original Changelog post.
Thanks! I can't believe I missed that, whoops. Makes sense, but oof, I guess I've got to change my workflow faster than I expected for my library's teen group. We cannot switch to 2024 any time soon.
You can probably find most of the core changes in the SRD once the new one is published. If you're using DDB for the club, all of those changes will be immediately available when they do the update. But the SRD is free, aside from the paper and ink needed to print off copies. That should take some pressure off having to get approval to buy new books right away.
I myself (currently) use D&D Beyond, but the teens use our physical books. The way I currently use it, I have their character sheets in DDB so I can quickly reference things to help them out (a lot are still learning), and they have physical character sheets. I've considered printing off some of the 2024 SRD once it's available, but the current one is 403 pages, and just spell descriptions are 81 pages. Assuming I'll also need pages for the updated mechanics, I'm estimating around $9 each to do a hybrid ruleset game. Printing it off is cheaper than buying new books, but it's still ... at lot, especially when you might have 12 kids who need to look things up at once. (Yes, that's too big for one group. It happens anyway.) Less than I was expecting, though, so thank you for the suggestion! I hadn't worked out the cost yet.
Since we're nearing the endgame of Rise of Tiamat, it's also not a great time to shake things up. Once we've dealt with an evil dragon goddess, maybe! I'm ... also going to need time to relearn spell effects and mechanics, and that's going to be a process. I'm usually a quick study, but I'm not that fast! (Plus, some of the teens have already been looking up 2024 changes and hate some of them, too, so that'll have to factor in. xD They are not mentally ready to switch, and they shouldn't have to just to make my DM workflow easier.)
When everybody is demanding the same thing you can absolutely appease everyone involved easily. The consistent demand is we just want to continue to use the app, character builder and VTT features with 5E content.
Unfortunately not EVERYONE is. There is clearly a number of folks who are wanting this, but there is no empirical data to support the amount of people for or against this. I see a survey in the distance.
I frankly don't care. There is maybe 4 spells from 2014 that I might consider still using. I think it's a waste of time for DnDB to legacy tag the old spells.
Bur if they did, it wouldn't bother me either.
Not every is 100% agreed, true. But when
- 95% want X,
- 4.9% want Y but don't care about X
- and only 0.1% actively want X removed
it seems a clear indication that X should be kept. Especially when X & Y can exist side by side and keep (almost) everyone happy.
"Some people are okay with these changes, and some are not"
Let me correct that for you...
"A very, very, very small percentage of people are okay with these changes, while the overwhelmingly vast majority of people are not"
Semantics. People who have negative opinions are generally more vocal about their displeasure than those who are okay with something. Those who are okay with something, as I'm seeing here, are quick to be called 'shills', 'sheep', or any other negative moniker.
I've been following multiple threads on here the last few days and I have not seen anyone called names because they like the changes. The only ones I've seen called names are those that are insisting other people should like the new rules or trying to tell us we're not losing anything.
Can I also say how disappointing it is that the only response we've had from staff on here is one person dropping "clarifications" that ignore 90% of what the problems are, and the other saying that an issue where 99% of responses are against it is "some like it, some don't" and "it's just a vocal minority".
We're all aware that you and the team are usually as in the dark as us, and many of us have tried to make clear in our responses here and on the discord that we are not blaming or upset with the mods etc. But when you both come in and just ignore or dismiss our complaints like that it's hard trust that you're actually listening, or that you'll pass on our complaints fairly.
I think it's fair for the DnDB team to take time before they formulate a response. Actions taken in haste can never be taken back. In situations like this is is almost impossible to appease everyone involved. I'd rather the team analyze the situation and take a tactical pause.
Give it time.
I'd agree with you, however I have no faith that DDB or WotC will respond. Their modus operandi has always been to ignore complaints until we give up and move on.
The reason I have respect for LaTiaJacquise and the mod team is the time they spent during the marketplace debacle gathering feedback and answering what questions they could (which wasn't much as they seemed to be informed of that change not long before we were). That's why I'm all the more concerned that both responses this time seem to be dismissing our concerns.
DDB never actually responded to the Marketplace feedback though. I don't remember them even acknowledging that there was a problem.
"Some people are okay with these changes, and some are not"
Let me correct that for you...
"A very, very, very small percentage of people are okay with these changes, while the overwhelmingly vast majority of people are not"
Semantics. People who have negative opinions are generally more vocal about their displeasure than those who are okay with something. Those who are okay with something, as I'm seeing here, are quick to be called 'shills', 'sheep', or any other negative moniker.
I've been following multiple threads on here the last few days and I have not seen anyone called names because they like the changes. The only ones I've seen called names are those that are insisting other people should like the new rules or trying to tell us we're not losing anything.
Can I also say how disappointing it is that the only response we've had from staff on here is one person dropping "clarifications" that ignore 90% of what the problems are, and the other saying that an issue where 99% of responses are against it is "some like it, some don't" and "it's just a vocal minority".
We're all aware that you and the team are usually as in the dark as us, and many of us have tried to make clear in our responses here and on the discord that we are not blaming or upset with the mods etc. But when you both come in and just ignore or dismiss our complaints like that it's hard trust that you're actually listening, or that you'll pass on our complaints fairly.
I think it's fair for the DnDB team to take time before they formulate a response. Actions taken in haste can never be taken back. In situations like this is is almost impossible to appease everyone involved. I'd rather the team analyze the situation and take a tactical pause.
Give it time.
I'd agree with you, however I have no faith that DDB or WotC will respond. Their modus operandi has always been to ignore complaints until we give up and move on.
The reason I have respect for LaTiaJacquise and the mod team is the time they spent during the marketplace debacle gathering feedback and answering what questions they could (which wasn't much as they seemed to be informed of that change not long before we were). That's why I'm all the more concerned that both responses this time seem to be dismissing our concerns.
DDB never actually responded to the Marketplace feedback though. I don't remember them even acknowledging that there was a problem.
"Some people are okay with these changes, and some are not"
Let me correct that for you...
"A very, very, very small percentage of people are okay with these changes, while the overwhelmingly vast majority of people are not"
Semantics. People who have negative opinions are generally more vocal about their displeasure than those who are okay with something. Those who are okay with something, as I'm seeing here, are quick to be called 'shills', 'sheep', or any other negative moniker.
This is alarmingly dismissive imo. People have valid concerns and I’m not sure how there’s a positive opinion about this when content is being forced upon people.
I would love to see a solid positive argument why this is good for anyone that isn’t just “it’s good for WOTC’s bottom line” because that’s the only reason I see for this.
I didn’t want the U2 album forced onto my iTunes; I don’t want 2024 content forced onto my character sheet.
Accidentally did it as a reply before, when I meant to quote.
They are dismissive to the abuse and harm being thrown at those who give honest disagreement, not to the point of people being dissatisfied. The arrogant language used by the OP there to "correct" them is purely semantical. Changing "some" to "very, very, very small" and "overwhelming vast majority" is trying to dismiss the mod's overall point of community safety and respect. It also is not coming from a place of education on the numbers for each side. OP did no polling or surveying; they made an assumption and "corrected" someone who has more information than them on the topic, who wasn't even talking about what the OP is deciding to nitpick.
Sure, but if someone is fine with these changes, why would someone defend a corporation for punishing the people who aren’t? I haven’t read the entire thread but I haven’t seen much of anyone here or on any other social media that is anything other than neutral at BEST. I haven’t even posted on a dndbeyond forum until today and I’ve been on the site for 7 years, but I’m frustrated and at my limit with this stuff, but considering the influx of discussion, I’m not alone nor do I wish to dig for the exact exchange.
I’m all for not turning this into a toxic environment but also calling people “sheep” for defending it is probably as mild as it gets lol. It feels very much like the point of the discussion is being dodged and dismissed for “be nice, ungrateful children” and it rubbed me the wrong way, personally.
Regardless my issue isn’t with anyone feeling neutral to this change or excited for 2024 content - it’s with dndbeyond and WOTC’s teams for absolutely fumbling this and doing nothing here to spread good will about it.
I'd agree with you, however I have no faith that DDB or WotC will respond. Their modus operandi has always been to ignore complaints until we give up and move on.
Moving on might be exactly what people will do, but I don't think it'll be the result they're looking for.
I'm also increasingly concerned about how this looks for onboarding new players. We don't know when this switch is going to happen, and currently all physical game materials (unsurprisingly) use 2014 base mechanics/spells/etc. More importantly, the currently-available Starter Set, which isn't all that old, uses 2014 rules and is actively being promoted and sold. If I remember correctly, it includes advertising for D&D Beyond. What are those new players going to think when they get here and the core feature promoted (character sheets) have different information from what they just learned. Maybe it's just me, but I get spectacularly frustrated and demoralized when I've put effort into learning something, especially from an authority (official material), only to be told that it's wrong (by the same authority, no less)! Unless we expect new players to dig into the upcoming 2024 SRD and/or a complex and expensive new rulebook, they're going to feel pretty alienated.
(Educators are in a similar boat, btw. All the material that teachers or librarians will be using at the start of the school year for clubs is going to be 2014 rules.)
It's just bewildering that this change is happening at all (without a toggle), but especially before 2024 physical material is widely available. Severe disconnect.
The change is going to occur on 9/3 with the early release of the 2024 update, per the original Changelog post.
Thanks! I can't believe I missed that, whoops. Makes sense, but oof, I guess I've got to change my workflow faster than I expected for my library's teen group. We cannot switch to 2024 any time soon.
You can probably find most of the core changes in the SRD once the new one is published. If you're using DDB for the club, all of those changes will be immediately available when they do the update. But the SRD is free, aside from the paper and ink needed to print off copies. That should take some pressure off having to get approval to buy new books right away.
I myself (currently) use D&D Beyond, but the teens use our physical books. The way I currently use it, I have their character sheets in DDB so I can quickly reference things to help them out (a lot are still learning), and they have physical character sheets. I've considered printing off some of the 2024 SRD once it's available, but the current one is 403 pages, and just spell descriptions are 81 pages. Assuming I'll also need pages for the updated mechanics, I'm estimating around $9 each to do a hybrid ruleset game. Printing it off is cheaper than buying new books, but it's still ... at lot, especially when you might have 12 kids who need to look things up at once. (Yes, that's too big for one group. It happens anyway.) Less than I was expecting, though, so thank you for the suggestion! I hadn't worked out the cost yet.
Since we're nearing the endgame of Rise of Tiamat, it's also not a great time to shake things up. Once we've dealt with an evil dragon goddess, maybe! I'm ... also going to need time to relearn spell effects and mechanics, and that's going to be a process. I'm usually a quick study, but I'm not that fast! (Plus, some of the teens have already been looking up 2024 changes and hate some of them, too, so that'll have to factor in. xD They are not mentally ready to switch, and they shouldn't have to just to make my DM workflow easier.)
While they don't have a character generator, 5erules.com is a pretty solid source of info for the 2014 rules. On their front page they have details how to access their site information through a couple of popular VTTs that do have character generators and sheets.
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Most of the 2014 spells, some of the subclasses, and some of the magic items are indeed in the 2014 version of the SRD. Not all though. If you're already using the 2014 SRD and nothing else, then you have to change nothing. if you were planning on updating to the 2024 SRD, then initially all you would need to do was print copies of the new SRD. I may have misunderstood your comment I replied to earlier, sorry.
Yeah, I'd hate to have to cancel the D&D Beyond subscription at this moment because of ongoing campaigns, but getting a refund for all the content I've purchased (basically everything) would certainly make it worthwhile economically. If my 2014 digital copies are no longer used AS IS in the D&D BEYOND toolset, then that seems to contradict the market material.
a poor argument when folks are going to homebrew stuff back in and its going to make MORE server space just for all the people homebrewing things back in
No need to be sorry brother.
They are dismissive to the abuse and harm being thrown at those who give honest disagreement, not to the point of people being dissatisfied. The arrogant language used by the OP there to "correct" them is purely semantical. Changing "some" to "very, very, very small" and "overwhelming vast majority" is trying to dismiss the mod's overall point of community safety and respect. It also is not coming from a place of education on the numbers for each side. OP did no polling or surveying. They made an assumption and "corrected" someone who has more information than them on the topic, who wasn't even talking about what the OP is deciding to nitpick.
bit confused why they need to legacy into compendium, existing features already have a search setting for "Source" and when Multiverse(among others) dropped the current character creator simply relisted Legacy versions still in the same selection list but at the bottom, also of concern is how AVRAE will be affected in its access to 2014 content
Yeah... I'm not too keen on pursuing the refund, I'd rather just would continue using the content I've purchased.
Hopefully the corporate leaders at hasbro and wotc let me do so.
until they start charging for drive space being used...
I think what’s wildly frustrating and upsetting to a lot of people is that systems are already in place on dndbeyond to be able to toggle content on and off, and to flag things as legacy.
You’re working against systems you’ve already used just to tick people off and push an update onto people mid-campaigns. I was excited to look at the new spells and items before I read further and saw that it was a forced update. Now I’m just disgusted.
Avrae is a concern for me beyond my voiced campaigns too.
Does anyone have an idea of how it will be impacted? I think it should be fine because the automation is done with the bot right? Presumably as long as all characters maintain their current spell lists it should still be able to automate them?
Not every is 100% agreed, true. But when
- 95% want X,
- 4.9% want Y but don't care about X
- and only 0.1% actively want X removed
it seems a clear indication that X should be kept. Especially when X & Y can exist side by side and keep (almost) everyone happy.
What do you think you pay your subscription for??
Accidentally did it as a reply before, when I meant to quote.
They are dismissive to the abuse and harm being thrown at those who give honest disagreement, not to the point of people being dissatisfied. The arrogant language used by the OP there to "correct" them is purely semantical. Changing "some" to "very, very, very small" and "overwhelming vast majority" is trying to dismiss the mod's overall point of community safety and respect. It also is not coming from a place of education on the numbers for each side. OP did no polling or surveying; they made an assumption and "corrected" someone who has more information than them on the topic, who wasn't even talking about what the OP is deciding to nitpick.
I myself (currently) use D&D Beyond, but the teens use our physical books. The way I currently use it, I have their character sheets in DDB so I can quickly reference things to help them out (a lot are still learning), and they have physical character sheets. I've considered printing off some of the 2024 SRD once it's available, but the current one is 403 pages, and just spell descriptions are 81 pages. Assuming I'll also need pages for the updated mechanics, I'm estimating around $9 each to do a hybrid ruleset game. Printing it off is cheaper than buying new books, but it's still ... at lot, especially when you might have 12 kids who need to look things up at once. (Yes, that's too big for one group. It happens anyway.) Less than I was expecting, though, so thank you for the suggestion! I hadn't worked out the cost yet.
Since we're nearing the endgame of Rise of Tiamat, it's also not a great time to shake things up. Once we've dealt with an evil dragon goddess, maybe! I'm ... also going to need time to relearn spell effects and mechanics, and that's going to be a process. I'm usually a quick study, but I'm not that fast! (Plus, some of the teens have already been looking up 2024 changes and hate some of them, too, so that'll have to factor in. xD They are not mentally ready to switch, and they shouldn't have to just to make my DM workflow easier.)
And those numbers come from?
I'd agree with you, however I have no faith that DDB or WotC will respond. Their modus operandi has always been to ignore complaints until we give up and move on.
The reason I have respect for LaTiaJacquise and the mod team is the time they spent during the marketplace debacle gathering feedback and answering what questions they could (which wasn't much as they seemed to be informed of that change not long before we were). That's why I'm all the more concerned that both responses this time seem to be dismissing our concerns.
DDB never actually responded to the Marketplace feedback though. I don't remember them even acknowledging that there was a problem.
That's fair.
Sure, but if someone is fine with these changes, why would someone defend a corporation for punishing the people who aren’t? I haven’t read the entire thread but I haven’t seen much of anyone here or on any other social media that is anything other than neutral at BEST. I haven’t even posted on a dndbeyond forum until today and I’ve been on the site for 7 years, but I’m frustrated and at my limit with this stuff, but considering the influx of discussion, I’m not alone nor do I wish to dig for the exact exchange.
I’m all for not turning this into a toxic environment but also calling people “sheep” for defending it is probably as mild as it gets lol. It feels very much like the point of the discussion is being dodged and dismissed for “be nice, ungrateful children” and it rubbed me the wrong way, personally.
Regardless my issue isn’t with anyone feeling neutral to this change or excited for 2024 content - it’s with dndbeyond and WOTC’s teams for absolutely fumbling this and doing nothing here to spread good will about it.
Moving on might be exactly what people will do, but I don't think it'll be the result they're looking for.
While they don't have a character generator, 5erules.com is a pretty solid source of info for the 2014 rules. On their front page they have details how to access their site information through a couple of popular VTTs that do have character generators and sheets.