In the modern 5A universe I'm trying to explain the difference between Astral Sea and Ethereal plane to my players. How could they travel there or take a Spelljammer ship to the Radiant Citadel?
The Ethereal Plane is right on top of the material plane, just 'out of phase' so that if you're there, you still see your surroundings but they don't see you.(that's it in a nutshell, anyway).
The Astral Plane/Sea isn't anywhere near the prime material, and instead is kinda like the 'inbetween' that stretches the distance between all the other planes.
Ifyou wanted to travel to another plane of existence, you'd use the Astral Sea to get there. If you wanted to sneak around undetected on your own plane, you'd use the Ethereal Plane.
Edit to answer the question: If your party has a spelljammer/spell jamming ship, then they should theoretically be able to fly it through Wildspace and into the Astral Sea, which (I think) is where the Radiant Citadel is located.
As you may be aware, there is a great set of modules you can buy that you can use to bring you to your own conclusion of that question based off the ideas of a few authors. It does seem the idea of the Radiant Citadel is where Deep Space 9 and Valerian got their ideas from or vice versa. I will let you draw your own conclusions.
With that out of the way the Radiant Citadel is supposedly created by 27 civilizations that long since passed. Your own creativity could have you gleam a clue to it's origins or wear about by creating your blend of one of these original civilizations and how previous settlers used to go back and forth. Also 15 civilizations supposed still have direct access to the Citadel if you want to just go that route. But not to sound like an advertisement, the modules for this location are said to do a good job giving locations, plots, and motivations for finding this fabled city. I can say I haven't looked over them yet, I have just been tantalized by their overviews as they sound like fascinating stories. Most sound like great games to run during the Fall and Halloween seasons.
In my opinion after reading more lore, the Radiant Citadel looks like it was the source material used in the MCU to create Knowhere. That said it is very easy to see how this would be a great crossover point for Spelljammer. A good resource for this would be the Astral Adventurer's Guide. So a research of "Astral Dominions and Dead Gods" will give you some interesting source material. But in essence I took this as generalized admission to the location being in the Astral Sea. I also found hints that "Githyanky, mind flayers, psurlons, and other natives of the astral plane turn these dead gods into outposts and cities." However, "the Citadel is a relic of the mythical First World and was a vital center of diplomacy between great cultures before a cataclysm shattered that world." I would suggest using this lore to develop your own location and allow the players to find it through talking with deities, or some higher power. Either way, it would seem sky is the limit for your imagination on how to fly a Spelljammer ship into this hub. Though I would personally create my own possible entry point, and make it so it was a temporary path so as to not mess with future lore or other ideas. Like picking a point at random in the Ethereal Plane and making close to a point reachable by my adventurers.
From JttRC: "...it’s possible to find the Citadel through exploration of the Deep Ethereal."
OK. So, a spelljamming ship needs to get into the Deep Ethereal first. Right. No explicit official 5e rules that I know of precisely make that happen. I could simply take what a SJ helm does - "...maneuver a ship...through space" - and house-rule that "space" includes "sailing" into the Ethereal Plane, but that sounds like cheating.
Maybe, we can go this way...from S:AiS: "...to navigate the Astral Sea...a creature can get to where it wants to go by thinking of its destination...somewhere in...Wildspace...." "Wildspace is where the Astral Plane overlaps with the Material Plane." So, when in the Astral, think of a Material Plane locale, get there, then, "The Ethereal Plane...“shores,” called the Border Ethereal, overlap the Material Plane...so that every location...has a corresponding location on the Ethereal Plane" (DMG). Thus, once on the Material, you can shift(?) into the Ethereal, but you probably need a gate spell or a magic portal or a DM hand wave to get the ship from the Material through the Border Ethereal and into the Deep Ethereal.
Once there, you've got to need to get to the Radiant Citadel: "The Auroral Diamond acts like a beacon for the lost and hopeless, and many who seek the Radiant Citadel within the Deep Ethereal find their way there within a few days of searching." Then, you can dock at the Passage of Respite.
Just move the Radiant Citadel into the Astral Plane. The RC doesn't make very much sense to me in the first place, and none of it has any reason to be in the Ethereal instead of the Astral, especially when the Astral is now a space between worlds.
Just move the Radiant Citadel into the Astral Plane. The RC doesn't make very much sense to me in the first place, and none of it has any reason to be in the Ethereal instead of the Astral, especially when the Astral is now a space between worlds.
Wait, the Radiant Citadel is in the *Ethereal* Plane? How bizarre. I guess my advice above is incorrect then. Why did they decide on the Ethereal Plane?
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
"My Lore"(trade mark pending): The Ethereal plane is that part of the Astral plane that overlaps the Prime Material planes (seeing as many modern writers and consequently many modern players appear to treat them as indistinguishable from one another). And the "Deep Ethereal" is just another term for the farthest reaches of the Astral sea.
I don’t own Radiant Citadel yet but have been assuming moving it to the Astral plane might be the easiest way to have a ready made number of adventures on worlds we can spelljam to ready to go.
So my take on it, and it should be linked to at least some version of lore (great wheel cosmology), the ethereal plane is linking up with the inner elemental planes, water, fire, earth, air. Each prime material plane/world has it's own "local" ethereal plane, connected via the deep ethereal, and that's where the radiant citadel is located as far as I know (I haven't got the adventure yet). The ethereal is also home to demi planes creates from proto-matter, so whenever that bag of holding or leomunds secret chest is creating some demi-plane, it actually exists in the ethereal.
You traverse through colour curtains between the local ethereal and deep ethereal planes,
The astral plane on the other hand extends out to the outer planes and homes of the gods and is the general travel direction of souls becoming petitioners travelling to their new homes on the outer planes. But is it of course also now where spell jamming takes place - but my take would be that the link between astral and ethereal planes would be through the prime material.
In the modern 5A universe I'm trying to explain the difference between Astral Sea and Ethereal plane to my players. How could they travel there or take a Spelljammer ship to the Radiant Citadel?
Thanks.
The Ethereal Plane is right on top of the material plane, just 'out of phase' so that if you're there, you still see your surroundings but they don't see you.(that's it in a nutshell, anyway).
The Astral Plane/Sea isn't anywhere near the prime material, and instead is kinda like the 'inbetween' that stretches the distance between all the other planes.
Ifyou wanted to travel to another plane of existence, you'd use the Astral Sea to get there. If you wanted to sneak around undetected on your own plane, you'd use the Ethereal Plane.
Edit to answer the question: If your party has a spelljammer/spell jamming ship, then they should theoretically be able to fly it through Wildspace and into the Astral Sea, which (I think) is where the Radiant Citadel is located.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
As you may be aware, there is a great set of modules you can buy that you can use to bring you to your own conclusion of that question based off the ideas of a few authors. It does seem the idea of the Radiant Citadel is where Deep Space 9 and Valerian got their ideas from or vice versa. I will let you draw your own conclusions.
With that out of the way the Radiant Citadel is supposedly created by 27 civilizations that long since passed. Your own creativity could have you gleam a clue to it's origins or wear about by creating your blend of one of these original civilizations and how previous settlers used to go back and forth. Also 15 civilizations supposed still have direct access to the Citadel if you want to just go that route. But not to sound like an advertisement, the modules for this location are said to do a good job giving locations, plots, and motivations for finding this fabled city. I can say I haven't looked over them yet, I have just been tantalized by their overviews as they sound like fascinating stories. Most sound like great games to run during the Fall and Halloween seasons.
In my opinion after reading more lore, the Radiant Citadel looks like it was the source material used in the MCU to create Knowhere. That said it is very easy to see how this would be a great crossover point for Spelljammer. A good resource for this would be the Astral Adventurer's Guide. So a research of "Astral Dominions and Dead Gods" will give you some interesting source material. But in essence I took this as generalized admission to the location being in the Astral Sea. I also found hints that "Githyanky, mind flayers, psurlons, and other natives of the astral plane turn these dead gods into outposts and cities." However, "the Citadel is a relic of the mythical First World and was a vital center of diplomacy between great cultures before a cataclysm shattered that world." I would suggest using this lore to develop your own location and allow the players to find it through talking with deities, or some higher power. Either way, it would seem sky is the limit for your imagination on how to fly a Spelljammer ship into this hub. Though I would personally create my own possible entry point, and make it so it was a temporary path so as to not mess with future lore or other ideas. Like picking a point at random in the Ethereal Plane and making close to a point reachable by my adventurers.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
From JttRC: "...it’s possible to find the Citadel through exploration of the Deep Ethereal."
OK. So, a spelljamming ship needs to get into the Deep Ethereal first. Right. No explicit official 5e rules that I know of precisely make that happen. I could simply take what a SJ helm does - "...maneuver a ship...through space" - and house-rule that "space" includes "sailing" into the Ethereal Plane, but that sounds like cheating.
Maybe, we can go this way...from S:AiS: "...to navigate the Astral Sea...a creature can get to where it wants to go by thinking of its destination...somewhere in...Wildspace...." "Wildspace is where the Astral Plane overlaps with the Material Plane." So, when in the Astral, think of a Material Plane locale, get there, then, "The Ethereal Plane...“shores,” called the Border Ethereal, overlap the Material Plane...so that every location...has a corresponding location on the Ethereal Plane" (DMG). Thus, once on the Material, you can shift(?) into the Ethereal, but you probably need a gate spell or a magic portal or a DM hand wave to get the ship from the Material through the Border Ethereal and into the Deep Ethereal.
Once there, you've got to need to get to the Radiant Citadel: "The Auroral Diamond acts like a beacon for the lost and hopeless, and many who seek the Radiant Citadel within the Deep Ethereal find their way there within a few days of searching." Then, you can dock at the Passage of Respite.
Maybe.
Just move the Radiant Citadel into the Astral Plane. The RC doesn't make very much sense to me in the first place, and none of it has any reason to be in the Ethereal instead of the Astral, especially when the Astral is now a space between worlds.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Wait, the Radiant Citadel is in the *Ethereal* Plane? How bizarre. I guess my advice above is incorrect then. Why did they decide on the Ethereal Plane?
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I suppose another option would be to give the players access to some kind of magical gew gaw that can allow the spelljammer to planeshift.
If anything, it is the ethereal that is adjacent to the prime material plane not the astral.
"My Lore"(trade mark pending): The Ethereal plane is that part of the Astral plane that overlaps the Prime Material planes (seeing as many modern writers and consequently many modern players appear to treat them as indistinguishable from one another). And the "Deep Ethereal" is just another term for the farthest reaches of the Astral sea.
I don’t own Radiant Citadel yet but have been assuming moving it to the Astral plane might be the easiest way to have a ready made number of adventures on worlds we can spelljam to ready to go.
So my take on it, and it should be linked to at least some version of lore (great wheel cosmology), the ethereal plane is linking up with the inner elemental planes, water, fire, earth, air. Each prime material plane/world has it's own "local" ethereal plane, connected via the deep ethereal, and that's where the radiant citadel is located as far as I know (I haven't got the adventure yet). The ethereal is also home to demi planes creates from proto-matter, so whenever that bag of holding or leomunds secret chest is creating some demi-plane, it actually exists in the ethereal.
You traverse through colour curtains between the local ethereal and deep ethereal planes,
The astral plane on the other hand extends out to the outer planes and homes of the gods and is the general travel direction of souls becoming petitioners travelling to their new homes on the outer planes. But is it of course also now where spell jamming takes place - but my take would be that the link between astral and ethereal planes would be through the prime material.
Maybe have your party land on one of the Material Plane worlds, then use a gate or a spell like Plane Shift to get them to the Ethereal?
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).