I'm making the V-human Polearm Master/Sentinel Fighter for AL, and I really wanted to just make him like a full martial expert, going full point-buy into Str/Dex/Con (20/16/16/8/8/8 at lvl 20). But when reading about the most common types of saves, I read about the dangers of Dominate Person at higher levels with low Wis and was wondering if that is the case in AL modules specifically. Am I going to really limit myself at higher levels if I don't have decent Wis? It's one thing to be susceptible to it and for it to be like a fun thing to play around, but I don't wanna make myself mechanically useless at higher levels.
I can swap out my Dex for Wis, or just spread the points evenly between Dex/Int/Wis/Cha so I at least don't have -1 Wis..... or can I get away with it?
Note: I'm purely asking about my potential damage output relative to how common Dominate Person is in AL modules. Murdering my entire party against my will is, after all, a dream of mine :D But if it's going to be like every other boss fight at a certain point or something, well I just wouldn't want it to happen all the time.
It varies a lot. I haven't played tier 4 so far, only tier 3. I know some folks with multiple level 20 characters. Some of them strongly advocate for including proficiency in con and wis saves as part of a build at higher levels.You won't find wis saves spells or effects in every module but they DO happen. In addition, the DCs usually get a lot higher 17-20 for example.
I did watch a tier 3 barbarian get locked down for an entire fight by a wis save spell. The DC was 18 or so. However, with a -1 in wisdom and no paladin in the party, the barbarian had to roll a 19+ when they tried to repeat the save each turn. He didn't make the save that fight but the party dealt with the encounter without the help of the barbarian. If it had been a dominate person spell rather than a CC spell (can't recall which one - it could have been hold person) then it might have been a worse situation. Hold person can come up against a number of caster opponents even at lower tiers, it is a wis save, and with a high enough DC, your character will be locked down with every attack against them being a critical hit.
I haven't seen dominate person used in a module I have played.
I think that many AL players factor in resilient wis/con into high level builds (except maybe a ranged focused character that might be able to avoid getting too much attention). I know I have been doing so.
I'd also point out that if you are going straight fighter that you have 7 ASIs to use. The stats you are showing only need 3 ASI/feat and one of those is a half feat plus the two feats you mention leaving you with two more choices, one of which could be resilient wis.
You could start 16/14/16/8/10/8 .. then take 2x Str ASI, 1x DEX ASI, PAM, Sentinel, Resilient WIS, and one more ... 1x con ASI? GWM? ASI/feats not mentioned in order ... I might go PAM/STR/Sentinel/Resilient/STR/GWM or CON/DEX or CON)
Well I have a lot to consider. Part of me just wants to learn the hard way and try to get away with it, but it seems pretty clear that if even hold person can wreck someone for a whole fight at T3, I should probably invest. All my fighter builds already have con save proficiency, so trading my dex resilient for wis wouldn't be too obtrusive and would cover those bases. Here's my fighter build options I have planned for tonight, ASI/feat progression is in the notes;
Stealth focused fighter for heavy infil, medium armor master and defense fighting style gives me +2ac compared to rogue https://ddb.ac/characters/17178623/CTFmtT again not trying to min-max, mostly RP and I really like military characters
The only comment on that build is that you seem to have put down the Sharpshooter feat ... while I think you probably meant PAM (in which case you would want to swap out the GreatHammer) or GWM.
I usually find that PAM makes a better first feat in tier 1 since you get an extra attack that way and GWM isn't that useful in tier 1 since the -5 to hit is a significant detriment.
P.S. Just an anecdote ... I was playing in a mostly level 6 party (one level 5, 7 players) the other evening and we were attacked by 4 Sahaugin Blademasters (CR6)... my sorcerer cast a twinned hold person on two of the four ... the DC was 14 and the Sahaugin have a wis of 11 and no proficiency. Luckily, both targets failed and continued to fail for three rounds. We still had two characters knocked to zero hit points in the fight. Moral of the story is that hold person can be a significant challenge at most tiers ... it is also a good reason for someone in the party to have dispel magic if at all possible.
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I'm making the V-human Polearm Master/Sentinel Fighter for AL, and I really wanted to just make him like a full martial expert, going full point-buy into Str/Dex/Con (20/16/16/8/8/8 at lvl 20). But when reading about the most common types of saves, I read about the dangers of Dominate Person at higher levels with low Wis and was wondering if that is the case in AL modules specifically. Am I going to really limit myself at higher levels if I don't have decent Wis? It's one thing to be susceptible to it and for it to be like a fun thing to play around, but I don't wanna make myself mechanically useless at higher levels.
I can swap out my Dex for Wis, or just spread the points evenly between Dex/Int/Wis/Cha so I at least don't have -1 Wis..... or can I get away with it?
Note: I'm purely asking about my potential damage output relative to how common Dominate Person is in AL modules. Murdering my entire party against my will is, after all, a dream of mine :D But if it's going to be like every other boss fight at a certain point or something, well I just wouldn't want it to happen all the time.
It varies a lot. I haven't played tier 4 so far, only tier 3. I know some folks with multiple level 20 characters. Some of them strongly advocate for including proficiency in con and wis saves as part of a build at higher levels.You won't find wis saves spells or effects in every module but they DO happen. In addition, the DCs usually get a lot higher 17-20 for example.
I did watch a tier 3 barbarian get locked down for an entire fight by a wis save spell. The DC was 18 or so. However, with a -1 in wisdom and no paladin in the party, the barbarian had to roll a 19+ when they tried to repeat the save each turn. He didn't make the save that fight but the party dealt with the encounter without the help of the barbarian. If it had been a dominate person spell rather than a CC spell (can't recall which one - it could have been hold person) then it might have been a worse situation. Hold person can come up against a number of caster opponents even at lower tiers, it is a wis save, and with a high enough DC, your character will be locked down with every attack against them being a critical hit.
I haven't seen dominate person used in a module I have played.
I think that many AL players factor in resilient wis/con into high level builds (except maybe a ranged focused character that might be able to avoid getting too much attention). I know I have been doing so.
I'd also point out that if you are going straight fighter that you have 7 ASIs to use. The stats you are showing only need 3 ASI/feat and one of those is a half feat plus the two feats you mention leaving you with two more choices, one of which could be resilient wis.
You could start 16/14/16/8/10/8 .. then take 2x Str ASI, 1x DEX ASI, PAM, Sentinel, Resilient WIS, and one more ... 1x con ASI? GWM? ASI/feats not mentioned in order ... I might go PAM/STR/Sentinel/Resilient/STR/GWM or CON/DEX or CON)
Well I have a lot to consider. Part of me just wants to learn the hard way and try to get away with it, but it seems pretty clear that if even hold person can wreck someone for a whole fight at T3, I should probably invest. All my fighter builds already have con save proficiency, so trading my dex resilient for wis wouldn't be too obtrusive and would cover those bases. Here's my fighter build options I have planned for tonight, ASI/feat progression is in the notes;
Stealth focused fighter for heavy infil, medium armor master and defense fighting style gives me +2ac compared to rogue https://ddb.ac/characters/17178623/CTFmtT again not trying to min-max, mostly RP and I really like military characters
the sentinel/PAM https://ddb.ac/characters/17018310/js8ptl
I also have a Thief, Druid and Wizard rolled to give me starting options since I like to fill
The only comment on that build is that you seem to have put down the Sharpshooter feat ... while I think you probably meant PAM (in which case you would want to swap out the GreatHammer) or GWM.
I usually find that PAM makes a better first feat in tier 1 since you get an extra attack that way and GWM isn't that useful in tier 1 since the -5 to hit is a significant detriment.
P.S. Just an anecdote ... I was playing in a mostly level 6 party (one level 5, 7 players) the other evening and we were attacked by 4 Sahaugin Blademasters (CR6)... my sorcerer cast a twinned hold person on two of the four ... the DC was 14 and the Sahaugin have a wis of 11 and no proficiency. Luckily, both targets failed and continued to fail for three rounds. We still had two characters knocked to zero hit points in the fight. Moral of the story is that hold person can be a significant challenge at most tiers ... it is also a good reason for someone in the party to have dispel magic if at all possible.