More realistically: the only thing you can do is approach the venue owner and tell them your story. If they stonewall you or brush you off, then your choices are to loiter outside the store and be the guy saying "you here for AL? Go somewhere else, the DM is a total asshat", or to see if you can run events instead. If not? Maybe run a non-AL game at your local coffeehouse or such, show people how the game actually works.
The only and best thing you can do is talk to the store owner. From the sounds of it, they may have been running D&D but it wasn't AL.
Explain the behavior of the DM, lack of knowledge of the rules, running a module with tier inappropriate participation, not scaling the module to fit the party running it and the impact it had on the NEW players who were trying out the game at their store. Most store owners realize that these people are customers who might buy books, minis and other products. Having a bad DM who likes to kill off the players, especially new ones, just gives the store a bad reputation.
You are also absolutely correct that a DM should not hit a bunch of level 1s with a fireball. Odds are most are perma-dead. Even if the final boss in the module does have the fireball spell, they should refrain from using it or replace it with something more level appropriate. However, most AL tier 1 content that I am familiar with doesn't even include NPCs with fireball. There is too much chance of insta-killing level 1 characters. I could be wrong but I haven't run into any tier 1 AL content with fireballs.
Which leads to the next comment. I'm not sure the module he was running is considered AL legal. Everything I know of for AL is 3-7 players. You need a minimum of 3 players to play an AL legal game. A module that lists 2-6 players isn't AL legal as far as I know. In addition, AL modules will usually say something like "A 4 hour adventure for level 1-4 characters" and it will say something like "Optimized for APL 4". The Introduction will usually contain a sentence like the following "This adventure is designed for three to seven 1st-4th level characters and is optimized for five characters with an average party level (APL) of 4."
AL uses the concept of APL or average party level to balance a module. Average Party Level is the average level of the party :) ... in your case far less than 4.
There were also lots of rules issues ...
1) A level 6 character can NOT participate in a module with Tier 1 characters unless it is an ongoing hardcover adventure that they started when they were in the appropriate tier. A tier 2 is just not allowed to play in a game for tier 1s due to the balance issues you noted no matter who that player might be.
2) Chaotic Evil characters are NOT allowed in AL.
3) PVP is not allowed in AL unless the players involve agree to it. You can't attack party members.
4) The player was disruptive and interfering with other players enjoyment of the game. Honestly, he should have been told to behave or get tossed out.
5) Premade characters that are useless? Giving the fighter a lance is just a waste of time. (by the way, you can buy a shield and staff for yourself and loan them to the druid for the adventure but you can't buy stuff and give it to other players. Also, going to level 2 should have been 80gp under season 9 rules so that would have been more than enough to also get a decent weapon and shield for the fighter too :) ). Nothing wrong with having some premade characters on hand for new players but they should be simple and reasonably built.
6) Most AL modules wouldn't have room for a long rest immediately before the end encounter but it varies.
7) You're right .. heavy armor just causes disadvantage on stealth .. however, coming back after a long rest after killing everyone in the complex, I am surprised she didn't ambush you earlier, hide or even leave. Waiting in the same room doesn't make any sense.
8) "I walk in 5 feet and ask the DM if I can move diagonally to one of the free squares and he tells me no because of the rats. Whatever, I cast thunderwave and chuck her back 10 feet, DM ends my turn, the rest of my movement was forfeit because I used my action after moving."
I'm trying to get an idea of what happened. I think you opened the door and stepped into the space directly in front of the door. The lady was directly in front of you and swarms on either side?
- YES you can move to the empty diagonal squares. If you move out of the reach of any opponents they would get opportunity attacks. HOWEVER, swarms don't have reach, they can ONLY bite creatures in their own space. So you can move past them without triggering opportunity attacks.
- You can move, use your action, then complete any remaining movement. Using your action does not end your movement so you could have stepped 5' into the room, cast the spell, and then continued to move. DM was wrong to end your move.
9) If there are two free squares to either side of you then the rogue could have moved up. Moving through an allies square is considered difficult terrain but that is all. The entire party could move up IF there is a space to move to and they have enough movement after spending 10' moving through your square. However, the rogue could NOT move diagonally past you since the corners of the wall prevent diagonal movement if you are standing in the square directly in front of the doorway.
10) The swarm can move into your square. It can NOT attack the rogue behind you because it can only attack targets in its own square (need to read the description of the bite attack).
11) Bonus action heal, attack action and move are all ok in one turn ... if the DM doesn't know that he shouldn't be running 5e.
12) Fireball has a radius of 20'. If she stepped back 10' and fired in the middle of your group, it sounds like she could have been inside the area of effect too. However, as mentioned, using a fireball against a group of level 1s is a bad DM move.
13) Fighter - standing up takes 1/2 movement so 15' assuming a base of 30'. He can still move 15' and if the target is within 10' they still get their attack. It seems likely the target was within reach even without using dash for extra movement but it is hard to tell. (Fighter also has a bonus action heal he could use).
14) A fireball does 8d6 average which is 28 damage. Level 1 characters usually have less than 1/2 that so they would usually be dead instantly (no death saves).If a character is brought to negative their total hit points in ONE hit (from spell or attack) the character dies ... no death saves.
15) Using two consecutive fireballs to slaughter a party of level 1-2 characters is just vindictive and bad. Bad DM, bad for business, bad for AL or D&D at that store. The owner shouldn't let them DM again but who knows ...
Besides all the technical issues, the DM was just bad. Ignoring people's turns, interfering with their choice of actions, telling people when their turn is up ... it is all just bad DMing.
Do you recall the name of the module and the code for it? It should be recorded on your log sheet.
Thanks for the reply bud. The adventure was the third chapter in Descent Into Averness (I think). As far as the rules go I was well aware of these things and brought them to his attention (I didn't know swarms couldn't attack adjacent creatures though). Literally nothing the dude was saying was making any sense. I had moved into the room 5 feet and was told I couldn't move diagonally due to the rats threatening the spaces. (super wrong i know) My plan was to flank them and thunderwave them into one of the side walls to break LoS from my party. After I cast the thunderwave HE ended my turn. I was aware of my remaining movement but seeing as how the other spaces were free I didn't care to argue it too much. Once he said the rogue couldn't move I knew something was off but I figured he just made a mistake and I had planned to clarify it with him after the game. Once the fireball came down though everything went to hell. He launched the fireball at our backline so that the caster wouldn't get hit. As far as the long rest goes we did indeed leave the dungeon to rest. I was aware of the risk of coming back to an ambush but we were completely tapped out on spells.
You're 100% right though. That was a bad DM move. If my players are walking into certain death I will at least drop some hints that they're walking into something they can't handle. My players have learned to pick up on my hints after some extremely close calls and now they pay far more attention to my descriptions and are far more engaged in the game compared to when we started. ****, I've even been gone as far as to straight up tell my players "If you engage you will all die." if I knew it was going to 100% be a TPK. Once combat starts though, I don't pull any punches. Given, stuff like purposely attacking downed PC's when there are still active combatants is something I don't do unless I'm using demons or something. There's stuff you just don't do whether you're a DM or not though and telling other people what their character does is at the top of that list.
I'm going to stop by tomorrow and speak to the shop owner and ask them about the guy. I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was just inexperienced but I really don't feel like it. The sense I got from him was that he felt threatened that I was a DM as well and just wanted to wrap up the game. Even if he was just ignorant I still find that not having a basic understanding of both the rules of the game and what the actual role of the DM is to be completely unacceptable for a public game.
Just a quick comment ... since you were playing a chapter of a hardcover adventure, it is possible to get mixed tiers playing if the level 6 character started the chapter when they were level 1-4. It is possible for this to happen. However, the DM did not handle this well.
The third chapter of Descent to Avernus looks to be level 7+ so I am guessing it was another chapter. However, in AL, every character is supposed to have a log sheet listing the name of the DM, the date, the name of the module being run, associated identification tag, along with a listing of the rewards earned including gold, level up, and magic items. For Descent into Avernus the code would be DDHC-DIA-<chapter #>.
Looking at the book, only chapter 1 is for levels 1-4. Other chapters are for higher level characters. (Ch 2 is 5-6, Ch 3 is 7-10, Ch 4 11-12, Ch 5 13+)
It sounds like you started off in the Elfsong tavern playing the Baldur's Bones dice game. It also looks like you were playing the Dungeon of the Dead Three encounter in chapter 1. There IS an NPC with fireball and a swarm of rats in that dungeon. It could be an extremely challenging encounter for level 1 characters. The NPC has 45 hit points and an AC of 12 with two possible fireballs. So unless the NPC is taken down very quickly this encounter would be beyond deadly for a level 1 party of 4 characters. Level 2s would stand a better chance.
So ... I don't think the DM did a good job of running it for a level 1 party, and he did make a lot of rules errors, but the content including a fireball casting NPC that can slaughter a level 1 party is as written in the book.
I went to the store today and spoke with him and he admitted that he was confused on rules since he hadn't DM'd since 3.5. He was very receptive and cool about everything. He said that he would roll everything back since the character deaths were caused by DM error. I stayed for a while afterwards and we spoke about DM stuff and it ended up being a super positive interaction. So yeah, happy ending, super glad I went.
I would find their Facebook page and start posting there. Name names and be specific
I don't think stalking folks on-line as retribution for an in-person interaction is ever a good idea. Furthermore, in this case, it was worked out when the OP chatted to the DM later on a different day at the store which would have made an online response in the heat of the moment even more of a bad idea. In this case, the DM admitted they had made mistakes and decided to walk it back. (Unfortunately, I am not clear on HOW you could officially undo something like this in AL but I'm sure the folks who were sitting at the table can sit down and come to some agreement).
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Find his car. Cast Delayed Blast Fireball.
More realistically: the only thing you can do is approach the venue owner and tell them your story. If they stonewall you or brush you off, then your choices are to loiter outside the store and be the guy saying "you here for AL? Go somewhere else, the DM is a total asshat", or to see if you can run events instead. If not? Maybe run a non-AL game at your local coffeehouse or such, show people how the game actually works.
And considered the Delayed Blast Fireball thing.
Please do not contact or message me.
The only and best thing you can do is talk to the store owner. From the sounds of it, they may have been running D&D but it wasn't AL.
Explain the behavior of the DM, lack of knowledge of the rules, running a module with tier inappropriate participation, not scaling the module to fit the party running it and the impact it had on the NEW players who were trying out the game at their store. Most store owners realize that these people are customers who might buy books, minis and other products. Having a bad DM who likes to kill off the players, especially new ones, just gives the store a bad reputation.
You are also absolutely correct that a DM should not hit a bunch of level 1s with a fireball. Odds are most are perma-dead. Even if the final boss in the module does have the fireball spell, they should refrain from using it or replace it with something more level appropriate. However, most AL tier 1 content that I am familiar with doesn't even include NPCs with fireball. There is too much chance of insta-killing level 1 characters. I could be wrong but I haven't run into any tier 1 AL content with fireballs.
Which leads to the next comment. I'm not sure the module he was running is considered AL legal. Everything I know of for AL is 3-7 players. You need a minimum of 3 players to play an AL legal game. A module that lists 2-6 players isn't AL legal as far as I know. In addition, AL modules will usually say something like "A 4 hour adventure for level 1-4 characters" and it will say something like "Optimized for APL 4". The Introduction will usually contain a sentence like the following "This adventure is designed for three to seven 1st-4th level characters and is optimized for five characters with an average party level (APL) of 4."
AL uses the concept of APL or average party level to balance a module. Average Party Level is the average level of the party :) ... in your case far less than 4.
There were also lots of rules issues ...
1) A level 6 character can NOT participate in a module with Tier 1 characters unless it is an ongoing hardcover adventure that they started when they were in the appropriate tier. A tier 2 is just not allowed to play in a game for tier 1s due to the balance issues you noted no matter who that player might be.
2) Chaotic Evil characters are NOT allowed in AL.
3) PVP is not allowed in AL unless the players involve agree to it. You can't attack party members.
4) The player was disruptive and interfering with other players enjoyment of the game. Honestly, he should have been told to behave or get tossed out.
5) Premade characters that are useless? Giving the fighter a lance is just a waste of time. (by the way, you can buy a shield and staff for yourself and loan them to the druid for the adventure but you can't buy stuff and give it to other players. Also, going to level 2 should have been 80gp under season 9 rules so that would have been more than enough to also get a decent weapon and shield for the fighter too :) ). Nothing wrong with having some premade characters on hand for new players but they should be simple and reasonably built.
6) Most AL modules wouldn't have room for a long rest immediately before the end encounter but it varies.
7) You're right .. heavy armor just causes disadvantage on stealth .. however, coming back after a long rest after killing everyone in the complex, I am surprised she didn't ambush you earlier, hide or even leave. Waiting in the same room doesn't make any sense.
8) "I walk in 5 feet and ask the DM if I can move diagonally to one of the free squares and he tells me no because of the rats. Whatever, I cast thunderwave and chuck her back 10 feet, DM ends my turn, the rest of my movement was forfeit because I used my action after moving."
I'm trying to get an idea of what happened. I think you opened the door and stepped into the space directly in front of the door. The lady was directly in front of you and swarms on either side?
- YES you can move to the empty diagonal squares. If you move out of the reach of any opponents they would get opportunity attacks. HOWEVER, swarms don't have reach, they can ONLY bite creatures in their own space. So you can move past them without triggering opportunity attacks.
- You can move, use your action, then complete any remaining movement. Using your action does not end your movement so you could have stepped 5' into the room, cast the spell, and then continued to move. DM was wrong to end your move.
9) If there are two free squares to either side of you then the rogue could have moved up. Moving through an allies square is considered difficult terrain but that is all. The entire party could move up IF there is a space to move to and they have enough movement after spending 10' moving through your square. However, the rogue could NOT move diagonally past you since the corners of the wall prevent diagonal movement if you are standing in the square directly in front of the doorway.
10) The swarm can move into your square. It can NOT attack the rogue behind you because it can only attack targets in its own square (need to read the description of the bite attack).
11) Bonus action heal, attack action and move are all ok in one turn ... if the DM doesn't know that he shouldn't be running 5e.
12) Fireball has a radius of 20'. If she stepped back 10' and fired in the middle of your group, it sounds like she could have been inside the area of effect too. However, as mentioned, using a fireball against a group of level 1s is a bad DM move.
13) Fighter - standing up takes 1/2 movement so 15' assuming a base of 30'. He can still move 15' and if the target is within 10' they still get their attack. It seems likely the target was within reach even without using dash for extra movement but it is hard to tell. (Fighter also has a bonus action heal he could use).
14) A fireball does 8d6 average which is 28 damage. Level 1 characters usually have less than 1/2 that so they would usually be dead instantly (no death saves).If a character is brought to negative their total hit points in ONE hit (from spell or attack) the character dies ... no death saves.
15) Using two consecutive fireballs to slaughter a party of level 1-2 characters is just vindictive and bad. Bad DM, bad for business, bad for AL or D&D at that store. The owner shouldn't let them DM again but who knows ...
Besides all the technical issues, the DM was just bad. Ignoring people's turns, interfering with their choice of actions, telling people when their turn is up ... it is all just bad DMing.
Do you recall the name of the module and the code for it? It should be recorded on your log sheet.
Thanks for the reply bud. The adventure was the third chapter in Descent Into Averness (I think). As far as the rules go I was well aware of these things and brought them to his attention (I didn't know swarms couldn't attack adjacent creatures though). Literally nothing the dude was saying was making any sense. I had moved into the room 5 feet and was told I couldn't move diagonally due to the rats threatening the spaces. (super wrong i know) My plan was to flank them and thunderwave them into one of the side walls to break LoS from my party. After I cast the thunderwave HE ended my turn. I was aware of my remaining movement but seeing as how the other spaces were free I didn't care to argue it too much. Once he said the rogue couldn't move I knew something was off but I figured he just made a mistake and I had planned to clarify it with him after the game. Once the fireball came down though everything went to hell. He launched the fireball at our backline so that the caster wouldn't get hit. As far as the long rest goes we did indeed leave the dungeon to rest. I was aware of the risk of coming back to an ambush but we were completely tapped out on spells.
You're 100% right though. That was a bad DM move. If my players are walking into certain death I will at least drop some hints that they're walking into something they can't handle. My players have learned to pick up on my hints after some extremely close calls and now they pay far more attention to my descriptions and are far more engaged in the game compared to when we started. ****, I've even been gone as far as to straight up tell my players "If you engage you will all die." if I knew it was going to 100% be a TPK. Once combat starts though, I don't pull any punches. Given, stuff like purposely attacking downed PC's when there are still active combatants is something I don't do unless I'm using demons or something. There's stuff you just don't do whether you're a DM or not though and telling other people what their character does is at the top of that list.
I'm going to stop by tomorrow and speak to the shop owner and ask them about the guy. I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was just inexperienced but I really don't feel like it. The sense I got from him was that he felt threatened that I was a DM as well and just wanted to wrap up the game. Even if he was just ignorant I still find that not having a basic understanding of both the rules of the game and what the actual role of the DM is to be completely unacceptable for a public game.
Yeah, no. There's inexperienced, and there's "I'm being a powertripping dickwagon because of reasons and y'all are the wheels on my wagon of dickery."
AL or not, that "DM" is undeserving of the title, let alone playing with.
Please do not contact or message me.
Just a quick comment ... since you were playing a chapter of a hardcover adventure, it is possible to get mixed tiers playing if the level 6 character started the chapter when they were level 1-4. It is possible for this to happen. However, the DM did not handle this well.
The third chapter of Descent to Avernus looks to be level 7+ so I am guessing it was another chapter. However, in AL, every character is supposed to have a log sheet listing the name of the DM, the date, the name of the module being run, associated identification tag, along with a listing of the rewards earned including gold, level up, and magic items. For Descent into Avernus the code would be DDHC-DIA-<chapter #>.
Looking at the book, only chapter 1 is for levels 1-4. Other chapters are for higher level characters. (Ch 2 is 5-6, Ch 3 is 7-10, Ch 4 11-12, Ch 5 13+)
It sounds like you started off in the Elfsong tavern playing the Baldur's Bones dice game. It also looks like you were playing the Dungeon of the Dead Three encounter in chapter 1. There IS an NPC with fireball and a swarm of rats in that dungeon. It could be an extremely challenging encounter for level 1 characters. The NPC has 45 hit points and an AC of 12 with two possible fireballs. So unless the NPC is taken down very quickly this encounter would be beyond deadly for a level 1 party of 4 characters. Level 2s would stand a better chance.
So ... I don't think the DM did a good job of running it for a level 1 party, and he did make a lot of rules errors, but the content including a fireball casting NPC that can slaughter a level 1 party is as written in the book.
I went to the store today and spoke with him and he admitted that he was confused on rules since he hadn't DM'd since 3.5. He was very receptive and cool about everything. He said that he would roll everything back since the character deaths were caused by DM error. I stayed for a while afterwards and we spoke about DM stuff and it ended up being a super positive interaction. So yeah, happy ending, super glad I went.
I would find their Facebook page and start posting there. Name names and be specific
I don't think stalking folks on-line as retribution for an in-person interaction is ever a good idea. Furthermore, in this case, it was worked out when the OP chatted to the DM later on a different day at the store which would have made an online response in the heat of the moment even more of a bad idea. In this case, the DM admitted they had made mistakes and decided to walk it back. (Unfortunately, I am not clear on HOW you could officially undo something like this in AL but I'm sure the folks who were sitting at the table can sit down and come to some agreement).