Sorry for the long winded first post...and I assure you I have done research from several sites.
New to 5e but started out in Basic, AD&D, and stopped at 3.5. Started back up not quite a year ago with a couple of friends that I started with back in the day and we are having fun.
My character is a level 12 Druid Circle of the Moon. I decided that with the wildshape and now the elemental abilities to focus on being in those forms and giving them as much utility to the party as possible. As such now am focused on grappling and concentration. Have traded on AL sites for items to help in this endeavor along with feats.
Feats: Shadow touched, Resilient CON, Skill expert with Expertise on Athletics
Attuned Items: Moon Sickle +1, Amulet of Health, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength
Have worked out the stat progression to give me +12 to athletics checks while wearing the gauntlets (+4 Prof, +4 Exp, +4 Str)
So here are my questions to make sure I am being legit...and I know a few will probably come down to DM decision.
1. When wildshaped, am I okay with STR/CON items being worn? I know for certain shapes gauntlets make no sense (beast forms that are not humanoid). Think giant scorpion and the gauntlets...don't see how that would work with claws. However the elemental forms are and should be able to wear them. Even a fire elemental should be able to wear the metal magic items.
2. As the fire elemental. It says the damage it does is fire based touch. Would the gauntlets prevent this? And if so could the damage then be slam attack based like other elementals? If not would I just use the gauntlets for grappling and keeping them on fire? Think casting wall of fire and grappling them into the wall and keeping them there with grapple or shove prone or both. My understanding is multi-attack is not the same as multiple attack so grappling would take the place of multi-attack so only one action of grapple and then next round would come the shove for prone.
3. As an air elemental the grappling would entail flight. If not two sizes larger (think enlarged spell from ally) and grappling a medium creature flight would be reduced to 45 feet. Win grapple and fly up 45 feet and either keep them there or drop (my understanding is the drop would be instant as an elemental cannot be grappled). Go up another 45 feet the next round if they do not escape and same decision all the way to max 200 feet of damage. Think of the wall of fire below to drop them in for extra damage.
4. As a water elemental there is the grapple as well except now they are in your water form and possibly drowning...although the rules for this seem to dictate a long time before they actually drown. The whelm ability or the multi-attack or the grappling can be done in one turn. You cannot whelm in the same turn as the others? And I assume this is the same for the whirlwind ability of the air elemental?
5. As an earth elemental you can burrow/glide. However it does not look possible to grapple and drag people into the earth? The grapple gets broken instead of them going into the earth with you?
6. Wall of Fire. It seems you get a dex check upon the initial casting but not one after that if you re-enter the wall. Someone online posted about in their turn taking a grappled opponent in and out of the wall for part of their movement and then readying an action for when one of their companions twitched then using their reaction to do it again for possible 15d8 damage in one turn. I do not see this as possible as the spell states they take damage if they enter for the first time or end their turn in the fire. I have to assume if they took the initial damage it can no longer be the first time unless being moved out and in counts towards this? Does not seem likely.
7. Flying as air elemental. I see many possible grappling opportunities with things like wall of fire/wall of thorns/maelstrom where you grapple and drag them into those from above so that you do not take any damage?
8. Wild shaped beasts that have grapple built in. So many beasts have as part of their attacks grappling built in with a set DC to escape. It appears the DC is set by their proficiency and str combined typically. Would the Druid's proficiencies and athletics ability add to the set DC to escape the grapple caused by these attacks? If not then I guess you forego these attacks to just grapple to be able to use the higher DC?
9. Spacing. So for the wall of fire as a fire elemental I do not have to care about taking damage. However if any other elemental I do or if it is a wall of thorns instead. So my question is if I have someone grappled/shoved prone am I able to put them into that wall of thorns without taking damage myself? Or am I considered in the same space and also take damage? Think large or possibly huge size if enlarged.
As you can tell I have given this a lot of thought and combined with allies that can enlarge you or cast silence on your area this can be quite powerful against almost anything. If you have time to cast fire shield it gets even better.
I thank you for your time in helping me with these questions.
This is a lot but I will do my best to answer your questions.
1) Magic items in general will resize to fit the owner. However your wildshape form would need to be able to accommodate the item. So an ape could probably wear gauntlets but not boots. Elementals are tricky because their form is amorphous. Typically they are depicted as vaguely humanoid but not always. So I wouldn't rely on a DM allowing it.
2) Most magic items can be damaged and destroyed. As for destroying your gauntlets but wearing them as a fire elemental RAW your gauntlets will be fine. Their Fire Form trait only deals damage to creatures, not objects. So you don't have to worry about setting tables and chairs on fire when you walk into a tavern as one.
3) I am not sure what the question is here but yes, what you describe is correct. Your enemy could grapple you instead of breaking free to prevent you from carrying then higher though.
4) Whelm and Multi-attack are actions and you normally only have one action on a turn. Grapple is a special attack you can make when you take the Attack Action. Multi-attack allows the creature to make a specific combination of attacks. Extra Attack lets the character make multiple attacks when they take the Attack Action of their choice. This is why a level 5 Barbarian can make a Grapple and Shove attack in one action but a druid wildshaped into an elemental can only make one grapple or shove in one action. The barbarian has Extra Attack and the elemental has Multi-attack.
5) Because the Earth Elemental does not create a tunnel like a Purple Worm they would not be able to drag an enemy into the earth.
6) RAW this is allowed. Per Fire Wall: "A creature takes the same damage when it enters the wall for the first time on a turn" the important bit is the first time on a turn, not a round. An example, let's start off with you grappling the enemy and holding them in the fire wall. Your turn starts and you use your movement to drag the enemy out of the wall and back into it. This forces the enemy to enter the wall for the first time on your turn and they take damage. Then you use the Ready Action to prepare to move on your allies turn. The enemy's turn starts. They fail to break free and take damage at the end of their turn for being in the Fire Wall. Your allies turn starts and you use you readied movement to drag the enemy out of and back into the Fire Wall. The enemy takes damage again because it is the first time they entered the Fire Wall on your allies turn.
7) Yes you can drag Grappled creatures into the sky if you have a fly speed. In the case of Fire Wall just be careful you don't get within 10 feet of the damaging side or you will take damage too.
8) While Wildshaped you use the creatures stat block except as specifically mentioned in the Wildshape feature. The only stats you keep are Int, Wis, Cha, skill proficiencies, and saving throw proficiencies. If you share a skill or saving throw proficiency with the new form then you use whoever has the higher total bonus. Everything else is purely from your new form's stat block, including To Hit bonus and save DCs. Also a Grapple attack is different from an ability that can inflict the Grappled Condition. The Grapple attack calls for contested skill checks where as an ability calls for a saving throw. These are distinct and not interchangable.
9) Grappling a creature does not cause it to enter the space you occupy. So in general you can hold a creature in a Fire Wall without necessarily entering the damaging area yourself. Water elementals have the rare ability to hold creatures inside them but this is the exception, not the rule.
Oh I totally wiffed on question 2. So let me try again.
2) Nothing about the Fire Elemental's Touch attack says it requires or uses a hand. So if you are able to wear your gauntlets they shouldn't interfere with the Fire Elemental's Touch attack.
3) I am not sure what the question is here but yes, what you describe is correct. Your enemy could grapple you instead of breaking free to prevent you from carrying then higher though.
Hopefully this makes sense and helps!
First, thank you very much for the reply.
As to number 3, elementals are immune to conditions like grapple/prone/restrained so my understanding would be that someone could not stop you from dropping them. Their only hope is to have something to help them not take damage from falling.
3) I am not sure what the question is here but yes, what you describe is correct. Your enemy could grapple you instead of breaking free to prevent you from carrying then higher though.
Hopefully this makes sense and helps!
First, thank you very much for the reply.
As to number 3, elementals are immune to conditions like grapple/prone/restrained so my understanding would be that someone could not stop you from dropping them. Their only hope is to have something to help them not take damage from falling.
Oh, so they are! Being immune to restrained makes the Grappler feat a little less of a trap too.
1) Magic items in general will resize to fit the owner. However your wildshape form would need to be able to accommodate the item. So an ape could probably wear gauntlets but not boots. Elementals are tricky because their form is amorphous. Typically they are depicted as vaguely humanoid but not always. So I wouldn't rely on a DM allowing it.
Forgot to reply to this part. I was thinking about other elementals in the D&D world that use weapons (Myrmidons for instance). Surely if you can wield swords you can wear gauntlets.
Also for the elementals to make slam attacks they have to be able to solidify part of their bodies you would think. So solidifying the parts to wear items seems pretty feasible.
1) Magic items in general will resize to fit the owner. However your wildshape form would need to be able to accommodate the item. So an ape could probably wear gauntlets but not boots. Elementals are tricky because their form is amorphous. Typically they are depicted as vaguely humanoid but not always. So I wouldn't rely on a DM allowing it.
Forgot to reply to this part. I was thinking about other elementals in the D&D world that use weapons (Myrmidons for instance). Surely if you can wield swords you can wear gauntlets.
Also for the elementals to make slam attacks they have to be able to solidify part of their bodies you would think. So solidifying the parts to wear items seems pretty feasible.
Oh I agree that it is likely. My point is that the description of Wildshape leaves what you can and can't wear entirely up to the DM. This makes it hard to give a clear RAW answer, particularly in the case of elementals.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Sorry for the long winded first post...and I assure you I have done research from several sites.
New to 5e but started out in Basic, AD&D, and stopped at 3.5. Started back up not quite a year ago with a couple of friends that I started with back in the day and we are having fun.
My character is a level 12 Druid Circle of the Moon. I decided that with the wildshape and now the elemental abilities to focus on being in those forms and giving them as much utility to the party as possible. As such now am focused on grappling and concentration. Have traded on AL sites for items to help in this endeavor along with feats.
Feats: Shadow touched, Resilient CON, Skill expert with Expertise on Athletics
Attuned Items: Moon Sickle +1, Amulet of Health, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength
Have worked out the stat progression to give me +12 to athletics checks while wearing the gauntlets (+4 Prof, +4 Exp, +4 Str)
So here are my questions to make sure I am being legit...and I know a few will probably come down to DM decision.
1. When wildshaped, am I okay with STR/CON items being worn? I know for certain shapes gauntlets make no sense (beast forms that are not humanoid). Think giant scorpion and the gauntlets...don't see how that would work with claws. However the elemental forms are and should be able to wear them. Even a fire elemental should be able to wear the metal magic items.
2. As the fire elemental. It says the damage it does is fire based touch. Would the gauntlets prevent this? And if so could the damage then be slam attack based like other elementals? If not would I just use the gauntlets for grappling and keeping them on fire? Think casting wall of fire and grappling them into the wall and keeping them there with grapple or shove prone or both. My understanding is multi-attack is not the same as multiple attack so grappling would take the place of multi-attack so only one action of grapple and then next round would come the shove for prone.
3. As an air elemental the grappling would entail flight. If not two sizes larger (think enlarged spell from ally) and grappling a medium creature flight would be reduced to 45 feet. Win grapple and fly up 45 feet and either keep them there or drop (my understanding is the drop would be instant as an elemental cannot be grappled). Go up another 45 feet the next round if they do not escape and same decision all the way to max 200 feet of damage. Think of the wall of fire below to drop them in for extra damage.
4. As a water elemental there is the grapple as well except now they are in your water form and possibly drowning...although the rules for this seem to dictate a long time before they actually drown. The whelm ability or the multi-attack or the grappling can be done in one turn. You cannot whelm in the same turn as the others? And I assume this is the same for the whirlwind ability of the air elemental?
5. As an earth elemental you can burrow/glide. However it does not look possible to grapple and drag people into the earth? The grapple gets broken instead of them going into the earth with you?
6. Wall of Fire. It seems you get a dex check upon the initial casting but not one after that if you re-enter the wall. Someone online posted about in their turn taking a grappled opponent in and out of the wall for part of their movement and then readying an action for when one of their companions twitched then using their reaction to do it again for possible 15d8 damage in one turn. I do not see this as possible as the spell states they take damage if they enter for the first time or end their turn in the fire. I have to assume if they took the initial damage it can no longer be the first time unless being moved out and in counts towards this? Does not seem likely.
7. Flying as air elemental. I see many possible grappling opportunities with things like wall of fire/wall of thorns/maelstrom where you grapple and drag them into those from above so that you do not take any damage?
8. Wild shaped beasts that have grapple built in. So many beasts have as part of their attacks grappling built in with a set DC to escape. It appears the DC is set by their proficiency and str combined typically. Would the Druid's proficiencies and athletics ability add to the set DC to escape the grapple caused by these attacks? If not then I guess you forego these attacks to just grapple to be able to use the higher DC?
9. Spacing. So for the wall of fire as a fire elemental I do not have to care about taking damage. However if any other elemental I do or if it is a wall of thorns instead. So my question is if I have someone grappled/shoved prone am I able to put them into that wall of thorns without taking damage myself? Or am I considered in the same space and also take damage? Think large or possibly huge size if enlarged.
As you can tell I have given this a lot of thought and combined with allies that can enlarge you or cast silence on your area this can be quite powerful against almost anything. If you have time to cast fire shield it gets even better.
I thank you for your time in helping me with these questions.
This is a lot but I will do my best to answer your questions.
1) Magic items in general will resize to fit the owner. However your wildshape form would need to be able to accommodate the item. So an ape could probably wear gauntlets but not boots. Elementals are tricky because their form is amorphous. Typically they are depicted as vaguely humanoid but not always. So I wouldn't rely on a DM allowing it.
2) Most magic items can be damaged and destroyed. As for destroying your gauntlets but wearing them as a fire elemental RAW your gauntlets will be fine. Their Fire Form trait only deals damage to creatures, not objects. So you don't have to worry about setting tables and chairs on fire when you walk into a tavern as one.
3) I am not sure what the question is here but yes, what you describe is correct. Your enemy could grapple you instead of breaking free to prevent you from carrying then higher though.
4) Whelm and Multi-attack are actions and you normally only have one action on a turn. Grapple is a special attack you can make when you take the Attack Action. Multi-attack allows the creature to make a specific combination of attacks. Extra Attack lets the character make multiple attacks when they take the Attack Action of their choice. This is why a level 5 Barbarian can make a Grapple and Shove attack in one action but a druid wildshaped into an elemental can only make one grapple or shove in one action. The barbarian has Extra Attack and the elemental has Multi-attack.
5) Because the Earth Elemental does not create a tunnel like a Purple Worm they would not be able to drag an enemy into the earth.
6) RAW this is allowed. Per Fire Wall: "A creature takes the same damage when it enters the wall for the first time on a turn" the important bit is the first time on a turn, not a round. An example, let's start off with you grappling the enemy and holding them in the fire wall. Your turn starts and you use your movement to drag the enemy out of the wall and back into it. This forces the enemy to enter the wall for the first time on your turn and they take damage. Then you use the Ready Action to prepare to move on your allies turn. The enemy's turn starts. They fail to break free and take damage at the end of their turn for being in the Fire Wall. Your allies turn starts and you use you readied movement to drag the enemy out of and back into the Fire Wall. The enemy takes damage again because it is the first time they entered the Fire Wall on your allies turn.
7) Yes you can drag Grappled creatures into the sky if you have a fly speed. In the case of Fire Wall just be careful you don't get within 10 feet of the damaging side or you will take damage too.
8) While Wildshaped you use the creatures stat block except as specifically mentioned in the Wildshape feature. The only stats you keep are Int, Wis, Cha, skill proficiencies, and saving throw proficiencies. If you share a skill or saving throw proficiency with the new form then you use whoever has the higher total bonus. Everything else is purely from your new form's stat block, including To Hit bonus and save DCs. Also a Grapple attack is different from an ability that can inflict the Grappled Condition. The Grapple attack calls for contested skill checks where as an ability calls for a saving throw. These are distinct and not interchangable.
9) Grappling a creature does not cause it to enter the space you occupy. So in general you can hold a creature in a Fire Wall without necessarily entering the damaging area yourself. Water elementals have the rare ability to hold creatures inside them but this is the exception, not the rule.
Hopefully this makes sense and helps!
Oh I totally wiffed on question 2. So let me try again.
2) Nothing about the Fire Elemental's Touch attack says it requires or uses a hand. So if you are able to wear your gauntlets they shouldn't interfere with the Fire Elemental's Touch attack.
First, thank you very much for the reply.
As to number 3, elementals are immune to conditions like grapple/prone/restrained so my understanding would be that someone could not stop you from dropping them. Their only hope is to have something to help them not take damage from falling.
Oh, so they are! Being immune to restrained makes the Grappler feat a little less of a trap too.
Forgot to reply to this part. I was thinking about other elementals in the D&D world that use weapons (Myrmidons for instance). Surely if you can wield swords you can wear gauntlets.
Also for the elementals to make slam attacks they have to be able to solidify part of their bodies you would think. So solidifying the parts to wear items seems pretty feasible.
Oh I agree that it is likely. My point is that the description of Wildshape leaves what you can and can't wear entirely up to the DM. This makes it hard to give a clear RAW answer, particularly in the case of elementals.