I read that it's the least played class, it's one of my favorites but I'm curious as to what people's impressions are of the class? Whether it's difficult to include in games or not, and just a general discussion about it.
I think with some of the newer options, the problems have diminished.
But as written, the druid needs to not only manage their character but possibly several other stat blocks, which is daunting to many players. You need to know the stats for all of your wild shapes (with adjustments for what stays the same in your wild shape and what changes). You are a strong summoning class, but many of the pre-Tasha’s spells require you to have stat blocks for whatever you summon. Also, many of the pre-Tasha’s summon spells required that the DM pick the creatures — meaning the DM also needs to know what creatures they’re even allowed to select. Even just accessing those stat blocks during the game could be cumbersome if you are using books.
On top of that, many people might look at the druid features and not see much compelling and the druid spell list and see not a lot of damaging spells and might be put off a little. It isn’t a very flashy spell caster. The major unique feature is wildshape for the PHB subclasses, and if that doesn’t call to you then you could easily be drawn toward playing a different class.
Druid is my favorite class as well, but I like that style of summoning and battlefield control.
My favourite roleplay is the drugged up, spaced out, circle of stars druid. Moon, stars, wildfire, what's not to love? Being able to swap spells between rests gives amazing flexibility. being able to use wildshape to summon a flying familiar and then use another wildshape to transform into something small enough to be a passenger gives flight from level 2. I love using end of day spell slots with goodberry for quickish party pick me ups. Spike growth and thorn whip are nice together. Polymorph overshadows wildshape later though, at least if your staryform druid can stay safe, hurling guiding bolts and keeping concentration for that party member going giant ape.
The first problem that DM's usually come to is dealing with giant HP pool of Moon druids at low level... this then follow up with other Pc's getting magical weapons , armor and items that they can use while the Moon Druid doesn't really benifit too much from the common variety of goodies... this usually leaves DM's brainstorming for gifts/item upgrades for the Moon Druid... and then they hit thier second Umf at upper-mid tier and the DM still strugglws to balance the game aeound them.. This of course, is just the Moon Druid... other druids are more level balanced as caster types.
The problem ive seen at most tables for players is that people tend to be stuck on the idea of a nature hippy when they envision Druids. Even though there are several different archetypes just in the subclass, it's hard for most new players to imagine or flavor a druid to their liking and theyllngo with other caster types.
Depends on how extensive of a guide you want to go for with Roleplaying... if you've got enough experience in sure it could be a whole guide on its own just describing the RP and character archetype
A paragraph or two is worth keeping in a basic guide.. just give examples of druids to help people see examples of the non-stereotype RP
I’m playing a Druid now, my first 5E character, for the last couple years. A lot of concentration spells, some good control spells, but problems I ran into are using them without friendly fire. I mean, I like spells like sleet storm but it has a 40’ radius so isn’t conducive to close combat, small rooms (heck even large rooms) etc.
I think it comes down to play style. If you are looking for direct damage and not so much control, or summoning, which has problems of slowing play or pre Tasha’s lose concentration it turns hostile to you (looking at you conjure elemental) you probably go elsewhere
The problem ive seen at most tables for players is that people tend to be stuck on the idea of a nature hippy when they envision Druids. Even though there are several different archetypes just in the subclass, it's hard for most new players to imagine or flavor a druid to their liking and theyllngo with other caster types.
This is because a lot of people don't exercise their imaginations. They have to see something on their T.V./computer screen before they wrap their minds around playing that kind of PC. The lack of Druids in fiction is in turn a reflection of modern society's distance from the non-manufactured, packaged, shipped to your door world that most people find preferable to the one where you need to know how to make fires from scratch, how to hunt or trap, how to interpret the behavior of wildlife.
I think at least part of the issue is that a number of spells are best suited for an outside adventure rather than a dungeon crawl, and that once you go beyond level 3, you rarely encounter beasts, and also, wild shape doesn't really scale well beyond 6th level. Further many DMs (correctly) limit wild shape to beasts you have seen which further reduces a druid's options.
I think at least part of the issue is that a number of spells are best suited for an outside adventure rather than a dungeon crawl, and that once you go beyond level 3, you rarely encounter beasts, and also, wild shape doesn't really scale well beyond 6th level. Further many DMs (correctly) limit wild shape to beasts you have seen which further reduces a druid's options.
I am curious what spells feel aren't suited to a dungeon crawl? I have only reached level 4 with my druid but I play in an urban setting. So far I haven't had a moment where I wanted to cast something but couldn't due to being inside. A quick like through their spell list the only thing I see that has this problem is Call Lightning.
As for Wild Shape scaling that might be a problem for Circle of the Moon. I don't know if the sub-class features are enough to offset this or not. I play a Circle of the Land druid though so I have only ever used Wild Shape as out of combat utility.
I think at least part of the issue is that a number of spells are best suited for an outside adventure rather than a dungeon crawl, and that once you go beyond level 3, you rarely encounter beasts, and also, wild shape doesn't really scale well beyond 6th level. Further many DMs (correctly) limit wild shape to beasts you have seen which further reduces a druid's options.
I am curious what spells feel aren't suited to a dungeon crawl? I have only reached level 4 with my druid but I play in an urban setting. So far I haven't had a moment where I wanted to cast something but couldn't due to being inside. A quick like through their spell list the only thing I see that has this problem is Call Lightning.
As for Wild Shape scaling that might be a problem for Circle of the Moon. I don't know if the sub-class features are enough to offset this or not. I play a Circle of the Land druid though so I have only ever used Wild Shape as out of combat utility.
Just looking at level 1 -4 - Animal messenger, beast sense, earthbind, locate animals or plants, pass without a trace, speak with plants, skywrite, wither and bloom, plant growth, dominate beast.
Most of these can work in a dungeon, but are best suited for an outdoor adventure. Especially those involving plants and beasts, which are less likely to be encountered in a dungeon past level 3.
To add to that, Sleet Storm with its 40’ radius. Not too often you have a room in a dungeon greater than 80’ across. But when it happens, like it did our last session, it’s nice. There are quite a few spells my level 12 Druid doesn’t get to use because of the radii of their effects. Even lower spells like Spike Growth at 40’ diameter can be hard to fit in a dungeon without friendly fire.
I was focusing on the spells with a more direct combat application. Sure, utility spells are can be hard to find uses for but the Druid is a prepared spell caster. They automatically know all the spells in their class list and can choose what to prepare each day. So spells like Speak With Plants and Plant Growth I would only prepare when I had a clear plan to use them.
Earthbind is situational but is not limited to beasts and it can force something like a ghost to waste actions and expose itself to counter attack. The only way being in a dungeon impacts the usefulness of Earthbind is if the ceilings are so low that a flying creature can't fly out of reach of your party members. The real issue with Earthbind is that it just isn't useful unless you are fighting something that flies. But if I were about to delve into something like a dragon's lair or a haunted crypt you bet I am preparing that spell just in case.
Pass without Trace is just an awesome spell, it makes whole party infiltrations much easier and frequently gives your party the advantage of surprise. If the dungeon isn't too linear it might even come into play for more than one encounter. Though you would probably be better off dropping concentration on Pass without Trace for something like Entangle or Heat Metal once combat begins. I seriously consider this spell a must have for any class with access to it simply because of how huge a bonus this spell gives to stealth checks. On average its bonus is more than twice as good as having Advantage and it can stack with Advantage and it works on the whole party.
I am not sure why Wither and Bloom is on this list. I don't own Strixhaven so I had to go to another resource to look up the spell. But if the source is correct it is a simple AoE damage spell that lets you choose which creatures in the targeted area to effect. Sure the damage and healing aren't amazing for a second level spell but you don't have to worry about friendly fire. The only effect I see that is specific to plants or beasts is that it causes non-magical plants in the area to wither. This doesn't cause any additional damage to non-magical plants and just seems to be there for flavor.
I did completely overlook Dominate Beast. As a 4th level spell I agree, it seems like it would be hard to use in general but especially hard to use in a dungeon.
Sure Area of Effect spells can be hard to use in tight spaces, especially after a few rounds, but that problem is not specific to Druids. Spike Growth is no harder to use than Fireball and you can even aim them both up to reduce the number of targets they hit at the ground. The only difference with Spike Growth is that it ONLY effects targets on the ground because its effect changes the ground.
Also as an aside Spike Growth seems to rely on an intuitive understanding of what is meant by "ground". This quickly runs into problems when you need to figure out what exactly counts as "ground" instead of wall, or if a constructed floor counts as "ground".
Just looking at level 1 -4 - Animal messenger, beast sense, earthbind, locate animals or plants, pass without a trace, speak with plants, skywrite, wither and bloom, plant growth, dominate beast.
Most of these can work in a dungeon, but are best suited for an outdoor adventure. Especially those involving plants and beasts, which are less likely to be encountered in a dungeon past level 3.
*shrug* Half of those spells can be used with some imagination. Beast sense is for familiars, which are now available to Druids as per the new Tasha's optional rules. Pass without trace is still useful in an urban setting since the party leaves behind a scent where it travels. Earthbind can work in a large cavern, castle, cathedral, etc. Animal messenger may be utilized in a lot of places by carrying around a few mice/bats in a cage. Like I said, the limitations mostly consist of what the person playing the Druid is willing to do.
As WolfofBees noted, the main issue with the spell list is that a lot of people want to "blast" spells. People love Fireball, Magic Missile, Cone of Cold. That stuff does direct damage and it allows the player to show off. Being a battlefield controller is where the Druid shines. However, many players are not familiar with that term, have never studied the tactical impact of terrain and weather on major historical battles, and therefore see little connection between control spells like Entangle, Sleet Storm, Wind Wall, Hallucinatory Terrain, Move Earth and what they want, which is to look cool in front of their friends. It's easier to say "I killed 6 Hobgoblins with my __________ spell" when that spell does direct damage. It takes more explaining to make sense of how decreasing movement rate of 20 Hobgoblins and preventing their archers from making your melee ranks from being turned into pin cushion is just as wicked awesome.
As a druid player I'm trying not to hog all the DM's time. I have to actively try to let everyone else do stuff.
Wildshape is nuts. Ohhhh, the druid is going to walk under the door as a spider. They're doing the strength test as a draft horse. They're bloody flying right out of the prison.
Bastard. I guess it's "see what the druid does" for an hour, eh?
Ok, so that's out of combat, and a bit of an exaggeration. But you're talking about combat?
If your games are just combat encounters... I mean, even then, you've got medium armour (honestly the best kind) and a shield, can fight, heal, control and damage, and look good doing it.
Oh, did you want to be in at the top of the leaderboard for each category, and you're only second or third? Well boohoo. You're second or third in *every* category *every* time. Fact is you're *always* good. Not one fight are you lacking options.
And if you're playing D&D to be better than the other players, then I'm not too interested in your opinion.
Druid is all-singing, and all-dancing. If you want to be *IN* the game, that's what you take.
---
And to answer the question: it's a pain for the DM because there's no telling how that bastard Druid is going to screw up anything you had planned.
I read that it's the least played class, it's one of my favorites but I'm curious as to what people's impressions are of the class? Whether it's difficult to include in games or not, and just a general discussion about it.
I think with some of the newer options, the problems have diminished.
But as written, the druid needs to not only manage their character but possibly several other stat blocks, which is daunting to many players. You need to know the stats for all of your wild shapes (with adjustments for what stays the same in your wild shape and what changes). You are a strong summoning class, but many of the pre-Tasha’s spells require you to have stat blocks for whatever you summon. Also, many of the pre-Tasha’s summon spells required that the DM pick the creatures — meaning the DM also needs to know what creatures they’re even allowed to select. Even just accessing those stat blocks during the game could be cumbersome if you are using books.
On top of that, many people might look at the druid features and not see much compelling and the druid spell list and see not a lot of damaging spells and might be put off a little. It isn’t a very flashy spell caster. The major unique feature is wildshape for the PHB subclasses, and if that doesn’t call to you then you could easily be drawn toward playing a different class.
Druid is my favorite class as well, but I like that style of summoning and battlefield control.
My favourite roleplay is the drugged up, spaced out, circle of stars druid. Moon, stars, wildfire, what's not to love? Being able to swap spells between rests gives amazing flexibility. being able to use wildshape to summon a flying familiar and then use another wildshape to transform into something small enough to be a passenger gives flight from level 2. I love using end of day spell slots with goodberry for quickish party pick me ups. Spike growth and thorn whip are nice together. Polymorph overshadows wildshape later though, at least if your staryform druid can stay safe, hurling guiding bolts and keeping concentration for that party member going giant ape.
The first problem that DM's usually come to is dealing with giant HP pool of Moon druids at low level... this then follow up with other Pc's getting magical weapons , armor and items that they can use while the Moon Druid doesn't really benifit too much from the common variety of goodies... this usually leaves DM's brainstorming for gifts/item upgrades for the Moon Druid... and then they hit thier second Umf at upper-mid tier and the DM still strugglws to balance the game aeound them.. This of course, is just the Moon Druid... other druids are more level balanced as caster types.
The problem ive seen at most tables for players is that people tend to be stuck on the idea of a nature hippy when they envision Druids. Even though there are several different archetypes just in the subclass, it's hard for most new players to imagine or flavor a druid to their liking and theyllngo with other caster types.
I think I have all I need to make a guide for druid, though I'm torn to make the roleplay guide separate just to keep things neat?
Depends on how extensive of a guide you want to go for with Roleplaying... if you've got enough experience in sure it could be a whole guide on its own just describing the RP and character archetype
A paragraph or two is worth keeping in a basic guide.. just give examples of druids to help people see examples of the non-stereotype RP
I’m playing a Druid now, my first 5E character, for the last couple years. A lot of concentration spells, some good control spells, but problems I ran into are using them without friendly fire. I mean, I like spells like sleet storm but it has a 40’ radius so isn’t conducive to close combat, small rooms (heck even large rooms) etc.
I think it comes down to play style. If you are looking for direct damage and not so much control, or summoning, which has problems of slowing play or pre Tasha’s lose concentration it turns hostile to you (looking at you conjure elemental) you probably go elsewhere
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
This is because a lot of people don't exercise their imaginations. They have to see something on their T.V./computer screen before they wrap their minds around playing that kind of PC. The lack of Druids in fiction is in turn a reflection of modern society's distance from the non-manufactured, packaged, shipped to your door world that most people find preferable to the one where you need to know how to make fires from scratch, how to hunt or trap, how to interpret the behavior of wildlife.
I think at least part of the issue is that a number of spells are best suited for an outside adventure rather than a dungeon crawl, and that once you go beyond level 3, you rarely encounter beasts, and also, wild shape doesn't really scale well beyond 6th level. Further many DMs (correctly) limit wild shape to beasts you have seen which further reduces a druid's options.
I am curious what spells feel aren't suited to a dungeon crawl? I have only reached level 4 with my druid but I play in an urban setting. So far I haven't had a moment where I wanted to cast something but couldn't due to being inside. A quick like through their spell list the only thing I see that has this problem is Call Lightning.
As for Wild Shape scaling that might be a problem for Circle of the Moon. I don't know if the sub-class features are enough to offset this or not. I play a Circle of the Land druid though so I have only ever used Wild Shape as out of combat utility.
Just looking at level 1 -4 - Animal messenger, beast sense, earthbind, locate animals or plants, pass without a trace, speak with plants, skywrite, wither and bloom, plant growth, dominate beast.
Most of these can work in a dungeon, but are best suited for an outdoor adventure. Especially those involving plants and beasts, which are less likely to be encountered in a dungeon past level 3.
To add to that, Sleet Storm with its 40’ radius. Not too often you have a room in a dungeon greater than 80’ across. But when it happens, like it did our last session, it’s nice. There are quite a few spells my level 12 Druid doesn’t get to use because of the radii of their effects. Even lower spells like Spike Growth at 40’ diameter can be hard to fit in a dungeon without friendly fire.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I was focusing on the spells with a more direct combat application. Sure, utility spells are can be hard to find uses for but the Druid is a prepared spell caster. They automatically know all the spells in their class list and can choose what to prepare each day. So spells like Speak With Plants and Plant Growth I would only prepare when I had a clear plan to use them.
Earthbind is situational but is not limited to beasts and it can force something like a ghost to waste actions and expose itself to counter attack. The only way being in a dungeon impacts the usefulness of Earthbind is if the ceilings are so low that a flying creature can't fly out of reach of your party members. The real issue with Earthbind is that it just isn't useful unless you are fighting something that flies. But if I were about to delve into something like a dragon's lair or a haunted crypt you bet I am preparing that spell just in case.
Pass without Trace is just an awesome spell, it makes whole party infiltrations much easier and frequently gives your party the advantage of surprise. If the dungeon isn't too linear it might even come into play for more than one encounter. Though you would probably be better off dropping concentration on Pass without Trace for something like Entangle or Heat Metal once combat begins. I seriously consider this spell a must have for any class with access to it simply because of how huge a bonus this spell gives to stealth checks. On average its bonus is more than twice as good as having Advantage and it can stack with Advantage and it works on the whole party.
I am not sure why Wither and Bloom is on this list. I don't own Strixhaven so I had to go to another resource to look up the spell. But if the source is correct it is a simple AoE damage spell that lets you choose which creatures in the targeted area to effect. Sure the damage and healing aren't amazing for a second level spell but you don't have to worry about friendly fire. The only effect I see that is specific to plants or beasts is that it causes non-magical plants in the area to wither. This doesn't cause any additional damage to non-magical plants and just seems to be there for flavor.
I did completely overlook Dominate Beast. As a 4th level spell I agree, it seems like it would be hard to use in general but especially hard to use in a dungeon.
Sure Area of Effect spells can be hard to use in tight spaces, especially after a few rounds, but that problem is not specific to Druids. Spike Growth is no harder to use than Fireball and you can even aim them both up to reduce the number of targets they hit at the ground. The only difference with Spike Growth is that it ONLY effects targets on the ground because its effect changes the ground.
Also as an aside Spike Growth seems to rely on an intuitive understanding of what is meant by "ground". This quickly runs into problems when you need to figure out what exactly counts as "ground" instead of wall, or if a constructed floor counts as "ground".
*shrug* Half of those spells can be used with some imagination. Beast sense is for familiars, which are now available to Druids as per the new Tasha's optional rules. Pass without trace is still useful in an urban setting since the party leaves behind a scent where it travels. Earthbind can work in a large cavern, castle, cathedral, etc. Animal messenger may be utilized in a lot of places by carrying around a few mice/bats in a cage. Like I said, the limitations mostly consist of what the person playing the Druid is willing to do.
As WolfofBees noted, the main issue with the spell list is that a lot of people want to "blast" spells. People love Fireball, Magic Missile, Cone of Cold. That stuff does direct damage and it allows the player to show off. Being a battlefield controller is where the Druid shines. However, many players are not familiar with that term, have never studied the tactical impact of terrain and weather on major historical battles, and therefore see little connection between control spells like Entangle, Sleet Storm, Wind Wall, Hallucinatory Terrain, Move Earth and what they want, which is to look cool in front of their friends. It's easier to say "I killed 6 Hobgoblins with my __________ spell" when that spell does direct damage. It takes more explaining to make sense of how decreasing movement rate of 20 Hobgoblins and preventing their archers from making your melee ranks from being turned into pin cushion is just as wicked awesome.
As a druid player I'm trying not to hog all the DM's time. I have to actively try to let everyone else do stuff.
Wildshape is nuts. Ohhhh, the druid is going to walk under the door as a spider. They're doing the strength test as a draft horse. They're bloody flying right out of the prison.
Bastard. I guess it's "see what the druid does" for an hour, eh?
Ok, so that's out of combat, and a bit of an exaggeration. But you're talking about combat?
If your games are just combat encounters... I mean, even then, you've got medium armour (honestly the best kind) and a shield, can fight, heal, control and damage, and look good doing it.
Oh, did you want to be in at the top of the leaderboard for each category, and you're only second or third? Well boohoo. You're second or third in *every* category *every* time. Fact is you're *always* good. Not one fight are you lacking options.
And if you're playing D&D to be better than the other players, then I'm not too interested in your opinion.
Druid is all-singing, and all-dancing. If you want to be *IN* the game, that's what you take.
---
And to answer the question: it's a pain for the DM because there's no telling how that bastard Druid is going to screw up anything you had planned.
Such language.