I've been playing a SoP Druid from lvl 3 to lvl 5 now, and while I do like the class I feel like everything is really slow. By that I mean I get to do one thing and then my round is over.
Using Symbiotic Entity takes an action to use and then I'm basically locked out of doing anything for the first round, besides casting Shillelagh or Halo of Spores if I'm close enough for a reaction. Round 1 is then usually spent to just "prepare" for the rest of the fight.
My spells all costs Actions to use besides Healing Word, and so I spend my rounds casting 1 spell or for example move Moon Beam and then I'm done.
I play with an Artillerist Artificer, a Battlemaster Fighter, and a Warlock (don't know the subclass), and they all seem to do so much during their rounds. They seem to do so much more during their rounds, whereas if I miss my spell or the enemies save the DC I literally do nothing for the entire round.
Am I playing my class really wrong or is that just how it is to play this?
How much are you utilizing entangle, faerie fire and spike growth? I find those spells to be really key to the efficacy of a lower level druid. They generally have an effect well beyond the round of casting, so even if your turns feel less "full", if you're still reaping the benefits of a good concentration spell that doesn't take up your action every turn then you really have more going on then it would first feel like.
The action taken to use Symbiotic Entity is a bit unfortunate, but workable. Out of curiosity what is your usual play pattern? Do you go for entity on the first turn as often as possible? It may be as simple as reevaluating how you approach each combat. Druids are highly versatile, and are not built to be primary martials. It will often be better to hang back the first round casting one of your many strong concentration spells to effect the battlefield as quickly as possible, waiting to activate the entity when the battlefield compresses and everyone is at each other's throats.
I'd look at replacing moon beam with Flaming Sphere. It will give purpose to your bonus action and is much friendlier to use with Symbiotic Entity. You can cast flaming sphere and shillelagh turn 1, then on a later turn when you activate Entity you can churn out some damage with your bonus action.
Finally, since you're now 5th level, you actually have access to more action economy than anyone else. Conjure Animals is the Druid's claim to fame (or infamy depending on who you ask). One casting of the spell to create 8 beasties will have you taking more actions each round than the rest of your party combined. I actually recommend toning it down most of the time to summoning 2 bigger things for the sake of ease of play and table enjoyment, but the point stands. Conjure Animals is a huge part of the Druid kit, the 3rd level spell that was juiced the most to power up the class. You will feel like you are doing much, much more each round if you start utilizing summon spells.
Since you're a Spores druid, you have Animate Dead. Maybe skip Conjure Animals and build yourself an undead army. Point being, use summons. Easiest way to break action economy over your knee.
How much are you utilizing entangle, faerie fire and spike growth? I find those spells to be really key to the efficacy of a lower level druid. They generally have an effect well beyond the round of casting, so even if your turns feel less "full", if you're still reaping the benefits of a good concentration spell that doesn't take up your action every turn then you really have more going on then it would first feel like.
The action taken to use Symbiotic Entity is a bit unfortunate, but workable. Out of curiosity what is your usual play pattern? Do you go for entity on the first turn as often as possible? It may be as simple as reevaluating how you approach each combat. Druids are highly versatile, and are not built to be primary martials. It will often be better to hang back the first round casting one of your many strong concentration spells to effect the battlefield as quickly as possible, waiting to activate the entity when the battlefield compresses and everyone is at each other's throats.
I'd look at replacing moon beam with Flaming Sphere. It will give purpose to your bonus action and is much friendlier to use with Symbiotic Entity. You can cast flaming sphere and shillelagh turn 1, then on a later turn when you activate Entity you can churn out some damage with your bonus action.
Finally, since you're now 5th level, you actually have access to more action economy than anyone else. Conjure Animals is the Druid's claim to fame (or infamy depending on who you ask). One casting of the spell to create 8 beasties will have you taking more actions each round than the rest of your party combined. I actually recommend toning it down most of the time to summoning 2 bigger things for the sake of ease of play and table enjoyment, but the point stands. Conjure Animals is a huge part of the Druid kit, the 3rd level spell that was juiced the most to power up the class. You will feel like you are doing much, much more each round if you start utilizing summon spells.
Since you're a Spores druid, you have Animate Dead. Maybe skip Conjure Animals and build yourself an undead army. Point being, use summons. Easiest way to break action economy over your knee.
100% agree here. I play a spores summoner/ life cleric dip and the summons are your bread and butter. IF you have a dm that lets you pick the summons then it makes the spell way way better also. 8 wolves? Yes. 8 velociraptors? OH YES! If you can gain access to it also a Bag of Tricks item makes it even more effective since you use your bonus action to control the beasty. 1 other thing to keep in mind too is that your temp hp doesnt go away when your 10 minutes are up on your spore activation. temp hp goes away on a long rest. So you also get to be tankier.
Is that really how the Temp HP from entity works Royal? My mind is kind of exploding. Lovely.
Couple thoughts on Conjure Animals:
You really don't need to summon the S Tier animals to have 8 critters be devestatingly effective. If your DM follows the letter of the law and chooses for you, 8 of anything on that 1/4 CR list will be great. 8 badgers with multiattack and a burrow speed? Check. 8 giant bats with their large size, flight and huge HP pools? Check. Elk with their charge attack? You bet. Even the "bad" ones are good when you have 8 of them. The sheer amount of actions taken is the true power, not what those actions are. The point is, unless your DM is a vindictive little shit, Conjure Animals is going to be very strong even if you don't have control. And frankly, for all the scared talk you see about "the DM can choose from any CR or lower and give you stupid useless crap like 8 crabs", when does that actually happen? If your DM pulls that, then they are terrible at their job. Not even the mediocre ones put their players through that.
If you're new to summoning, you have homework. I highly recommend perusing this guide: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/druid/56699-shepherd-druid-guide. It's a shepherd druid guide, but the information on summoning is relevant to anyone trying to play the conjure animals game. Frankly, I would just skip all the stuff about the different animals (you can learn that through experience, and it will probably be information overload) and focus on the section called Party Harmony. I cannot stress this enough. Casting conjure animals and being unprepared is unacceptable. You will ruin the combat, and possibly the whole session. I had the great pleasure of sitting through this multiple times in my last campaign as the druid cast the spell and sat there like an idiot, twiddling his thumbs and waiting for things to happen. Please, please don't subject your table to that and come up with a plan for handling your summons in combat with speed and efficiency. No one wants to sit there watching you fumble with summons and making attack rolls for half an hour.
Discuss the use of the spell with your DM before the first session where you plan on casting it. Do this to determine how the DM wants to handle the spell. Many will be open to you choosing the animal, but not everyone will. Some will have very specific ideas of how you can control the animals. Hammer this out ahead of time to avoid surprises in the middle of combat that throw a wrench in your plans.
I think there is a great case to be made for letting the player choose the animal, and it has nothing to do with picking power options. The process of the DM choosing the animal is slow and tedious, and the spell is already slow and tedious by nature, so it really compounds poorly. The DM has to, on the fly, choose an animal they think is appropriate for the environment, pull out the stat block, and then give that statblock to the player. The player then has to learn the abilities of that animal and choose tactics accordingly. If it doesn't sound slow, trust me, it is.
My personal favorite technique is allowing the player to come up with a small selection of summons that fit within the theme of their character. For example, I played a moon druid in a seafaring campaign that was from a tropical archapeligo. He summoned Giant Octupi, Reef Sharks and Poisonous/Constrictor/Flying Snakes. It was a blast, and having a small group of animals I had the information for and could access easily made planning tactics seemless. Don't be afraid to adapt this to other animals you may meet and become familiar with along the journey with the DMs approval. The point is, limiting yourself to a small group of thematic choices eases the burden of playing with the spell AND is an approach that you can present to your DM that is not just "please let me choose all the best options, I just want to tear things to shreds with wolves and raptors". Optics are important.
One really cool thing about the spores druid is that you have Conjure Animals AND Animate Dead. The only class besides Lore Bards to be able to do this. I love the idea of combining them. Keep control of 4 skeleton archers, then summon 4 giant wasps (or any other mountable animal, I just love the visual of the wasp). Have the skeletons ride the wasps. That's an awesomely terrifying four horseman style cavalry you have at your fingertips.
Is that really how the Temp HP from entity works Royal? My mind is kind of exploding. Lovely.
Couple thoughts on Conjure Animals:
You really don't need to summon the S Tier animals to have 8 critters be devestatingly effective. If your DM follows the letter of the law and chooses for you, 8 of anything on that 1/4 CR list will be great. 8 badgers with multiattack and a burrow speed? Check. 8 giant bats with their large size, flight and huge HP pools? Check. Elk with their charge attack? You bet. Even the "bad" ones are good when you have 8 of them. The sheer amount of actions taken is the true power, not what those actions are. The point is, unless your DM is a vindictive little shit, Conjure Animals is going to be very strong even if you don't have control. And frankly, for all the scared talk you see about "the DM can choose from any CR or lower and give you stupid useless crap like 8 crabs", when does that actually happen? If your DM pulls that, then they are terrible at their job. Not even the mediocre ones put their players through that.
If you're new to summoning, you have homework. I highly recommend perusing this guide: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/druid/56699-shepherd-druid-guide. It's a shepherd druid guide, but the information on summoning is relevant to anyone trying to play the conjure animals game. Frankly, I would just skip all the stuff about the different animals (you can learn that through experience, and it will probably be information overload) and focus on the section called Party Harmony. I cannot stress this enough. Casting conjure animals and being unprepared is unacceptable. You will ruin the combat, and possibly the whole session. I had the great pleasure of sitting through this multiple times in my last campaign as the druid cast the spell and sat there like an idiot, twiddling his thumbs and waiting for things to happen. Please, please don't subject your table to that and come up with a plan for handling your summons in combat with speed and efficiency. No one wants to sit there watching you fumble with summons and making attack rolls for half an hour.
Discuss the use of the spell with your DM before the first session where you plan on casting it. Do this to determine how the DM wants to handle the spell. Many will be open to you choosing the animal, but not everyone will. Some will have very specific ideas of how you can control the animals. Hammer this out ahead of time to avoid surprises in the middle of combat that throw a wrench in your plans.
I think there is a great case to be made for letting the player choose the animal, and it has nothing to do with picking power options. The process of the DM choosing the animal is slow and tedious, and the spell is already slow and tedious by nature, so it really compounds poorly. The DM has to, on the fly, choose an animal they think is appropriate for the environment, pull out the stat block, and then give that statblock to the player. The player then has to learn the abilities of that animal and choose tactics accordingly. If it doesn't sound slow, trust me, it is.
My personal favorite technique is allowing the player to come up with a small selection of summons that fit within the theme of their character. For example, I played a moon druid in a seafaring campaign that was from a tropical archapeligo. He summoned Giant Octupi, Reef Sharks and Poisonous/Constrictor/Flying Snakes. It was a blast, and having a small group of animals I had the information for and could access easily made planning tactics seemless. Don't be afraid to adapt this to other animals you may meet and become familiar with along the journey with the DMs approval. The point is, limiting yourself to a small group of thematic choices eases the burden of playing with the spell AND is an approach that you can present to your DM that is not just "please let me choose all the best options, I just want to tear things to shreds with wolves and raptors". Optics are important.
One really cool thing about the spores druid is that you have Conjure Animals AND Animate Dead. The only class besides Lore Bards to be able to do this. I love the idea of combining them. Keep control of 4 skeleton archers, then summon 4 giant wasps (or any other mountable animal, I just love the visual of the wasp). Have the skeletons ride the wasps. That's an awesomely terrifying four horseman style cavalry you have at your fingertips.
You have brought out absolutely fantastic ideas! I love these. You're right also when using the summons its nice to have a small section of things to pick from too (our campaign is playing deadly things so that's mainly why I will goto the roar-sauruses). My wife actually loves using giant bats with our pal-sorc casting darkness and since the giant bats have blindsight they atk at advantage and it was such a fantastic wombo-combo. I also really need to remember to cast animate dead for skeletons. I don't think I've cast it once this campaign XD. Also like you said please have your plans ahead of time and a way to make things seamless in combat. It can ruin the whole experience otherwise. This is said more for anyone who may stumble upon this thread later.
I def will be checking out the link thank you.
To answer about the temp hp, yes. The temp hp is not part of the bullet point list of features that go away after 10 mins, and also, according to the temp hp rules, temp hp doesn't go away until a long rest.
Oh yeah, if your campaign is a high difficulty one, the raptors and wolves can be right at home without drastically warping how the DM has to prepare encounters. Your group sounds like it's having a blast with those synergies! I love it.
That guide is very well written. Absolutely recommend it to anyone looking to use conjure animals (and woodland beings).
And that is just so cool with the Temp HP. Reading over the ability the Temp HP is very clearly seperate from the benefits that are bulleted and labeled to disappear after the 10 minutes. Would have never seen that nuance in the language. Thanks for pointing that out. I've been theorycrafting a Beast Barbarian 6/ Spore Druid 14 on and off and this renewed my vigor for the idea.
Oh yeah, if your campaign is a high difficulty one, the raptors and wolves can be right at home without drastically warping how the DM has to prepare encounters. Your group sounds like it's having a blast with those synergies! I love it.
That guide is very well written. Absolutely recommend it to anyone looking to use conjure animals (and woodland beings).
And that is just so cool with the Temp HP. Reading over the ability the Temp HP is very clearly separate from the benefits that are bulleted and labeled to disappear after the 10 minutes. Would have never seen that nuance in the language. Thanks for pointing that out. I've been theorycrafting a Beast Barbarian 6/ Spore Druid 14 on and off and this renewed my vigor for the idea.
We are and thanks! I actually never knew it either until I saw someone post in the forums of this on the temp hp, and when I looked into it I couldn't believe it! That barbarian interaction is some kind of spicy. I really really like it and never thought of it. I have just thought of swarmkeeper and spore. I need to look into this now, thanks for the idea!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've been playing a SoP Druid from lvl 3 to lvl 5 now, and while I do like the class I feel like everything is really slow. By that I mean I get to do one thing and then my round is over.
Using Symbiotic Entity takes an action to use and then I'm basically locked out of doing anything for the first round, besides casting Shillelagh or Halo of Spores if I'm close enough for a reaction. Round 1 is then usually spent to just "prepare" for the rest of the fight.
My spells all costs Actions to use besides Healing Word, and so I spend my rounds casting 1 spell or for example move Moon Beam and then I'm done.
I play with an Artillerist Artificer, a Battlemaster Fighter, and a Warlock (don't know the subclass), and they all seem to do so much during their rounds. They seem to do so much more during their rounds, whereas if I miss my spell or the enemies save the DC I literally do nothing for the entire round.
Am I playing my class really wrong or is that just how it is to play this?
How much are you utilizing entangle, faerie fire and spike growth? I find those spells to be really key to the efficacy of a lower level druid. They generally have an effect well beyond the round of casting, so even if your turns feel less "full", if you're still reaping the benefits of a good concentration spell that doesn't take up your action every turn then you really have more going on then it would first feel like.
The action taken to use Symbiotic Entity is a bit unfortunate, but workable. Out of curiosity what is your usual play pattern? Do you go for entity on the first turn as often as possible? It may be as simple as reevaluating how you approach each combat. Druids are highly versatile, and are not built to be primary martials. It will often be better to hang back the first round casting one of your many strong concentration spells to effect the battlefield as quickly as possible, waiting to activate the entity when the battlefield compresses and everyone is at each other's throats.
I'd look at replacing moon beam with Flaming Sphere. It will give purpose to your bonus action and is much friendlier to use with Symbiotic Entity. You can cast flaming sphere and shillelagh turn 1, then on a later turn when you activate Entity you can churn out some damage with your bonus action.
Finally, since you're now 5th level, you actually have access to more action economy than anyone else. Conjure Animals is the Druid's claim to fame (or infamy depending on who you ask). One casting of the spell to create 8 beasties will have you taking more actions each round than the rest of your party combined. I actually recommend toning it down most of the time to summoning 2 bigger things for the sake of ease of play and table enjoyment, but the point stands. Conjure Animals is a huge part of the Druid kit, the 3rd level spell that was juiced the most to power up the class. You will feel like you are doing much, much more each round if you start utilizing summon spells.
Since you're a Spores druid, you have Animate Dead. Maybe skip Conjure Animals and build yourself an undead army. Point being, use summons. Easiest way to break action economy over your knee.
100% agree here. I play a spores summoner/ life cleric dip and the summons are your bread and butter. IF you have a dm that lets you pick the summons then it makes the spell way way better also. 8 wolves? Yes. 8 velociraptors? OH YES! If you can gain access to it also a Bag of Tricks item makes it even more effective since you use your bonus action to control the beasty. 1 other thing to keep in mind too is that your temp hp doesnt go away when your 10 minutes are up on your spore activation. temp hp goes away on a long rest. So you also get to be tankier.
Oops meant to respond to this a while ago.
Is that really how the Temp HP from entity works Royal? My mind is kind of exploding. Lovely.
Couple thoughts on Conjure Animals:
I think there is a great case to be made for letting the player choose the animal, and it has nothing to do with picking power options. The process of the DM choosing the animal is slow and tedious, and the spell is already slow and tedious by nature, so it really compounds poorly. The DM has to, on the fly, choose an animal they think is appropriate for the environment, pull out the stat block, and then give that statblock to the player. The player then has to learn the abilities of that animal and choose tactics accordingly. If it doesn't sound slow, trust me, it is.
My personal favorite technique is allowing the player to come up with a small selection of summons that fit within the theme of their character. For example, I played a moon druid in a seafaring campaign that was from a tropical archapeligo. He summoned Giant Octupi, Reef Sharks and Poisonous/Constrictor/Flying Snakes. It was a blast, and having a small group of animals I had the information for and could access easily made planning tactics seemless. Don't be afraid to adapt this to other animals you may meet and become familiar with along the journey with the DMs approval. The point is, limiting yourself to a small group of thematic choices eases the burden of playing with the spell AND is an approach that you can present to your DM that is not just "please let me choose all the best options, I just want to tear things to shreds with wolves and raptors". Optics are important.
One really cool thing about the spores druid is that you have Conjure Animals AND Animate Dead. The only class besides Lore Bards to be able to do this. I love the idea of combining them. Keep control of 4 skeleton archers, then summon 4 giant wasps (or any other mountable animal, I just love the visual of the wasp). Have the skeletons ride the wasps. That's an awesomely terrifying four horseman style cavalry you have at your fingertips.
You have brought out absolutely fantastic ideas! I love these. You're right also when using the summons its nice to have a small section of things to pick from too (our campaign is playing deadly things so that's mainly why I will goto the roar-sauruses). My wife actually loves using giant bats with our pal-sorc casting darkness and since the giant bats have blindsight they atk at advantage and it was such a fantastic wombo-combo. I also really need to remember to cast animate dead for skeletons. I don't think I've cast it once this campaign XD. Also like you said please have your plans ahead of time and a way to make things seamless in combat. It can ruin the whole experience otherwise. This is said more for anyone who may stumble upon this thread later.
I def will be checking out the link thank you.
To answer about the temp hp, yes. The temp hp is not part of the bullet point list of features that go away after 10 mins, and also, according to the temp hp rules, temp hp doesn't go away until a long rest.
Oh yeah, if your campaign is a high difficulty one, the raptors and wolves can be right at home without drastically warping how the DM has to prepare encounters. Your group sounds like it's having a blast with those synergies! I love it.
That guide is very well written. Absolutely recommend it to anyone looking to use conjure animals (and woodland beings).
And that is just so cool with the Temp HP. Reading over the ability the Temp HP is very clearly seperate from the benefits that are bulleted and labeled to disappear after the 10 minutes. Would have never seen that nuance in the language. Thanks for pointing that out. I've been theorycrafting a Beast Barbarian 6/ Spore Druid 14 on and off and this renewed my vigor for the idea.
We are and thanks! I actually never knew it either until I saw someone post in the forums of this on the temp hp, and when I looked into it I couldn't believe it! That barbarian interaction is some kind of spicy. I really really like it and never thought of it. I have just thought of swarmkeeper and spore. I need to look into this now, thanks for the idea!