I'm in the planning stages of a new campaign, The concept is thus:
The PC's awaken on the deck of a ship that has run aground on an island. Wearing only plain clothes, no jewelry, armor or weapons and no memory of anything but their name. The Players will begin with a blank character sheet with only a name and race (Which they will decide). Ability scores will be determined as needed, i.e. "Can I look around the ship and see if I can find any clues?" Roll 3d6 (or whatever method I choose for random ability score determination) then investigation check. I will have my players submit three class options that they want to play and will do what I can to make one of those options possible (like a bonus to a stat to meet min requirements. Over time the characters will begin to get flashes of memory and i'll let them tell me what little bit they remember.
Any other suggestions? Have you ever run an "Amnesia Campaign"? How did it go?
One option for determining stats would be to start them at flat 10 for all stats. Then have a set of sequential modifiers which will apply in order of them using their stats.
It'd need a bit of work to smooth it out but the idea is that if they pass the check, you increase that stat, and if they fail, they decrease it. I might consider using the standard array and allocating stats accordingly.
So 15,14,13,12,10,8. The first check they make with a stat determines the stat. Make every check a basic DC of 10 at the start, so it's easy to work with. Whatever they roll, the closest unused stat for them is their new stat.
So, for example, there's a door that's stuck, and someone decides that their characters approach is to kick it down - not to pick the lock or anything, so they roll strength. If they roll 15+, then they get 15 in strength. If they roll a 4, they get 8 in strength. Let's say they roll 13 - they kick the door down, and their strength is now 13 + race mods.
Then they decide to check for clues, using intelligence. They roll a 13 again, and this is already used so it rounds up to 14, that's their intelligence score.
Then they try to jump over a barrel, roll a 2, and their dexterity becomes 8.
This way the players will allocate their stats in the order of their likelihood to use them. IT also allows them to discover it in a way which reflects their rolls. EG "you go to kick the door down and it splinters under the force of your kick. your strength is 15". vs "you go to kick the door down and it scarcely shudders in it's frame. Your strength score is 8".
This is actually a cool way to run a "level 0" start. Players only attempt non-combat checks, work out their characters stats, and then level up to level 1 before combat starts, where they get to pick their class. Could be by recovering and drinking a potion which gives them their memories. Maybe they have to guess which potion is theirs, and if they guess wrong, they get a different class!
Keep the standard stat array but assign them in descending numerical order as they get used. People tend to play to their strengths so someone who first decides to break the door down would be used to using their strength to solve problems - Str/15
When strength fails, what do they resort to? Asking for help? - Char/14 Pick the lock? - Agility/14
This has the added benefit of leaning into how the players want to play.
Keep the standard stat array but assign them in descending numerical order as they get used. People tend to play to their strengths so someone who first decides to break the door down would be used to using their strength to solve problems - Str/15
When strength fails, what do they resort to? Asking for help? - Char/14 Pick the lock? - Agility/14
This has the added benefit of leaning into how the players want to play.
This only works if all of the stats are options. Someone might want to get through the door but the option of seducing/persuading the door isn't there. You would need specifically designed encounters with equal-probability to use each of the main stats. EG a doorway with 6 locks on it - one is seized and looks breakable (strength), one has a keyhole which can be picked (dex), one is a shot of strong alcohol which must be drunk (con), one is a riddle (int), one has a key locked onto the lock (it goes to a different lock, wis), and one has a face which must be persuaded (cha). Any lock will open the door, so they have the choice. make 5 challenges with this sort of thing, removing options they've already used, would work.
Another option would be to have a series of challenges which can be used to decide which abilities they prefer. Only after all of the challenges will they get their stats - kind of like the G.O.A.T Test in Fallout 3. The trick would be in finding a mathematically appropriate system which will give you the answers you seek.
One option is to reduce the players options as they progress - if they use strength first, it becomes their highest stat but they can't use it again. This would result in 5 tests to determine the 6 stats (last test picks one of 2, leaving 1 as the lowest). This could easily be designed in such a way as to be reminiscent of the Crystal Maze games, where one person from the team goes into each event. This could, however, leave some people bored or disengaged.
Another option is to keep going until the players have used 5 of 6 stats each, but this could drag on if one person keeps waving strength around and doesn't care for charisma or wisdom.
Make sure to get player buy in. This sounds cool, but is very non-traditional for character generation. Particularly not being able to choose a class. It. Could be fun as a 1-shot or even 3-5 sessions, but I know personally I’d be annoyed if this was going to be some kind of multi-year campaign and I got stuck with a class I don’t enjoy playing.
Make sure to get player buy in. This sounds cool, but is very non-traditional for character generation. Particularly not being able to choose a class. It. Could be fun as a 1-shot or even 3-5 sessions, but I know personally I’d be annoyed if this was going to be some kind of multi-year campaign and I got stuck with a class I don’t enjoy playing.
I think a buy-in from the players is pretty safe to assume for something as complicated as this. I'd actually be interested in something more long term using this set up, although I totally understand it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Anyway, I think this idea sounds great! I actually think that I like the initial concept (you roll for your stats only when you first choose to actively use that stat). There's already a LOT of bookkeeping and home brewing needed to make this concept work, so adding additional steps and systems seems like it could slow things down a lot. I think the other problem is that not everyone is going to think to do an action that directly fills out a stat on their character sheet. I'd say if you get through the first day and anyone has any blank spots on their sheet, just have them roll for it right then and there to avoid having to spend another day doing non-combat challenges just to fill it out. That'd also be a good time for everyone to "remember" what class they belong to. I think something I would include is some chests locked with combination locks, but nobody can remember which on is their's... then after the first night they remember enough to open their chest, which would contain the starting equipment of the class they chose.
EDIT: Also, I just realized that I would also recommend that the players use the Tasha's Custom Origin options for their characters... that way, regardless of what race they choose at the start, they can put their Ability Score boosts into whatever stat would be best for the class that they find themselves best suited for based on their stat rolls through the first day.
I think the biggest challenge will be appropriately integrating the class abilities and spellcasting into the story. Trying to open a stuck door is a natural progression for strength (insert other example for ability scores and skills). But figuring out how to work, say, the Archfey Warlocks level 1 ability, which is a distinct action specific to combat/social encounters, or figuring out that you have access to the prestidigitation spell will be very hard to do naturally, and progression will be very slow as a result (imaging having to do a "reveal" for all spells, abilities, etc and you can see how long it would take for the PCs to 'unlock' even the limited abilities at level 1.)
I would definitely try to group some of these "memory jogs" other wise you will spend weeks with level 1 characters trying to figure out what they can do. I do think its a cool concept though with the right players.
This gimmick lasts for less than a single session, at which point you have a table of players who didn't get to play the classes they wanted.
This is an example of one of those situations where someone has an idea that sounds different and novel, but ultimately it removes a significant part of the fun of the game for the players. Pacifist campaigns, playing all one class campaigns, ultra-low-magic campaigns - they all sound like you've come up with something new, but in truth, you've made it new by removing some of the fun of the game (and in this case, one of the most important parts). I'd be astonished if you could find a group of players who thought that this was more fun than giving them any agency at all.
You basically remove their choices of class, equipment, ability score designation, and background. So the players get almost no say in any aspect of what they have to end up playing, and have to go through a clunky process of generating ability scores whilst they're supposed to be in an adventure.
My group is currently playing in an Amnesia campaign, but we determined things differently.
We created level 1 characters with everything determined like normal such as stats, skills, race, class, feats if applicable (three of us started as variant humans), our starting equipment, and everything else which we provided to the Dm. We also provided a backstory of our characters to the DM, who they were and there basic personality and all that.
And then, we all woke up in a dungeon together chained to the wall with weak restraints, in only undergarments, no memories of anything but the most basic knowledge, and strange devices in our heads. As we all were trying to escape the dungeon, the Dm would subtly hint things out to us whenever we would be in a situation that one of us could potentially solve using our particular talents. For example, I was a Warlock, so when we got attacked the Dm asked me to make a Arcana check. When I succeeded, he said I responded instinctually by using a cantrip I would most commonly use (Ray of Frost for me). That made my character realize I could perform magic.
When we completed the dungeon, we found our equipment, personal items, and some basic information about the character's backstory to help give us a general guide to ourselves while we left on the journey to self discovery and finding out why we were all in this predicament in the first place. For example, my character found out through the information that he was a Noble of some kind and had magical talent. However it wasn't until many sessions later that he learned he was actually a Prince of a kingdom and that he was in fact a Warlock.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
This gimmick lasts for less than a single session, at which point you have a table of players who didn't get to play the classes they wanted.
This is an example of one of those situations where someone has an idea that sounds different and novel, but ultimately it removes a significant part of the fun of the game for the players. Pacifist campaigns, playing all one class campaigns, ultra-low-magic campaigns - they all sound like you've come up with something new, but in truth, you've made it new by removing some of the fun of the game (and in this case, one of the most important parts). I'd be astonished if you could find a group of players who thought that this was more fun than giving them any agency at all.
You basically remove their choices of class, equipment, ability score designation, and background. So the players get almost no say in any aspect of what they have to end up playing, and have to go through a clunky process of generating ability scores whilst they're supposed to be in an adventure.
I think you're right that this has a risk of being an unfun slog for a lot of players. But I personally like the idea of not being able to plan ahead or build an optimum character and see how it goes. This definitely isn't a game that will be fun for most people... I think you're far more likely to find players who find the whole thing to be an annoyance and who end up with a goofy character they don't care about by the time it's done. It's something that requires a lot of buy-in, and even then, some people who think this sounds like a hoot might find that it ends up just being a pain in the ass. But I don't think that means that it's a terrible idea that no one ever would enjoy. I, personally, don't enjoy games like Monster Hunter which require huge time sinks to gather material and crafting in order to then survive another huge time sink of slowly whittling down a creature's health to get more material to whittle down the health of the next biggest creature, but I wouldn't say that just because I don't like that kind of gameplay that there's no one out there who would.
If Ogre came in and said, "Hey, I'm gonna surprise my players by putting them in this wacky situation where they have to invent their character on-the-fly as the game progresses and they're stuck with what they randomly end up with", that would be a terrible idea. But if we assume the players will be informed about this game concept and they're excited to try it, then I say go for it. Sometimes getting of your comfort zone as a player can be a good thing.
Everyone of my players is well aware of the mechanics involved with this campaign. I am treating it like a play test. I currently run two games a week, the first is getting close to reaching the bbeg (by level 10) and the amnesia game will be every other week, while I work on the second half of the first campaign, also one of my players wants to run a game on the opposite week. But I have explained my idea to them and they are exited to try it out. If it doesn't work, no harm no foul.
Why not remove the game mechanics and make it a narrative session zero. As someone pointed out the amnesia thing only lasts for session one anyway. So instead of coming up with encounters for that session come up with conversation’s to have with them about their characters and how they react to being cast adrift on a deserted island.
Use your amnesia set up but make it an interactive back and forth about what they have been upto since being stranded, what weapons have they fashioned etc. You and your players might get more out of that rather than playing a blank character sheet to fill it.
The amnesia will last for more than one session, bits and pieces will be remembered over time, like why were they on the ship in the first place, what happened to the crew? Other important information.
Sure but the amnesia in regards to their character sheet is session 1 only
the other thing to consider is wether D&D is the right tool for this mechanic - have you looked at something like Blades in the dark which is built around the idea of flashbacks to why you know how to do something
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm in the planning stages of a new campaign, The concept is thus:
The PC's awaken on the deck of a ship that has run aground on an island. Wearing only plain clothes, no jewelry, armor or weapons and no memory of anything but their name. The Players will begin with a blank character sheet with only a name and race (Which they will decide). Ability scores will be determined as needed, i.e. "Can I look around the ship and see if I can find any clues?" Roll 3d6 (or whatever method I choose for random ability score determination) then investigation check. I will have my players submit three class options that they want to play and will do what I can to make one of those options possible (like a bonus to a stat to meet min requirements. Over time the characters will begin to get flashes of memory and i'll let them tell me what little bit they remember.
Any other suggestions? Have you ever run an "Amnesia Campaign"? How did it go?
One option for determining stats would be to start them at flat 10 for all stats. Then have a set of sequential modifiers which will apply in order of them using their stats.
It'd need a bit of work to smooth it out but the idea is that if they pass the check, you increase that stat, and if they fail, they decrease it. I might consider using the standard array and allocating stats accordingly.
So 15,14,13,12,10,8. The first check they make with a stat determines the stat. Make every check a basic DC of 10 at the start, so it's easy to work with. Whatever they roll, the closest unused stat for them is their new stat.
So, for example, there's a door that's stuck, and someone decides that their characters approach is to kick it down - not to pick the lock or anything, so they roll strength. If they roll 15+, then they get 15 in strength. If they roll a 4, they get 8 in strength. Let's say they roll 13 - they kick the door down, and their strength is now 13 + race mods.
Then they decide to check for clues, using intelligence. They roll a 13 again, and this is already used so it rounds up to 14, that's their intelligence score.
Then they try to jump over a barrel, roll a 2, and their dexterity becomes 8.
This way the players will allocate their stats in the order of their likelihood to use them. IT also allows them to discover it in a way which reflects their rolls. EG "you go to kick the door down and it splinters under the force of your kick. your strength is 15". vs "you go to kick the door down and it scarcely shudders in it's frame. Your strength score is 8".
This is actually a cool way to run a "level 0" start. Players only attempt non-combat checks, work out their characters stats, and then level up to level 1 before combat starts, where they get to pick their class. Could be by recovering and drinking a potion which gives them their memories. Maybe they have to guess which potion is theirs, and if they guess wrong, they get a different class!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I would simplify it
Keep the standard stat array but assign them in descending numerical order as they get used. People tend to play to their strengths so someone who first decides to break the door down would be used to using their strength to solve problems - Str/15
When strength fails, what do they resort to? Asking for help? - Char/14 Pick the lock? - Agility/14
This has the added benefit of leaning into how the players want to play.
This only works if all of the stats are options. Someone might want to get through the door but the option of seducing/persuading the door isn't there. You would need specifically designed encounters with equal-probability to use each of the main stats. EG a doorway with 6 locks on it - one is seized and looks breakable (strength), one has a keyhole which can be picked (dex), one is a shot of strong alcohol which must be drunk (con), one is a riddle (int), one has a key locked onto the lock (it goes to a different lock, wis), and one has a face which must be persuaded (cha). Any lock will open the door, so they have the choice. make 5 challenges with this sort of thing, removing options they've already used, would work.
Another option would be to have a series of challenges which can be used to decide which abilities they prefer. Only after all of the challenges will they get their stats - kind of like the G.O.A.T Test in Fallout 3. The trick would be in finding a mathematically appropriate system which will give you the answers you seek.
One option is to reduce the players options as they progress - if they use strength first, it becomes their highest stat but they can't use it again. This would result in 5 tests to determine the 6 stats (last test picks one of 2, leaving 1 as the lowest). This could easily be designed in such a way as to be reminiscent of the Crystal Maze games, where one person from the team goes into each event. This could, however, leave some people bored or disengaged.
Another option is to keep going until the players have used 5 of 6 stats each, but this could drag on if one person keeps waving strength around and doesn't care for charisma or wisdom.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Make sure to get player buy in. This sounds cool, but is very non-traditional for character generation. Particularly not being able to choose a class. It. Could be fun as a 1-shot or even 3-5 sessions, but I know personally I’d be annoyed if this was going to be some kind of multi-year campaign and I got stuck with a class I don’t enjoy playing.
I think a buy-in from the players is pretty safe to assume for something as complicated as this. I'd actually be interested in something more long term using this set up, although I totally understand it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Anyway, I think this idea sounds great! I actually think that I like the initial concept (you roll for your stats only when you first choose to actively use that stat). There's already a LOT of bookkeeping and home brewing needed to make this concept work, so adding additional steps and systems seems like it could slow things down a lot. I think the other problem is that not everyone is going to think to do an action that directly fills out a stat on their character sheet. I'd say if you get through the first day and anyone has any blank spots on their sheet, just have them roll for it right then and there to avoid having to spend another day doing non-combat challenges just to fill it out. That'd also be a good time for everyone to "remember" what class they belong to. I think something I would include is some chests locked with combination locks, but nobody can remember which on is their's... then after the first night they remember enough to open their chest, which would contain the starting equipment of the class they chose.
EDIT: Also, I just realized that I would also recommend that the players use the Tasha's Custom Origin options for their characters... that way, regardless of what race they choose at the start, they can put their Ability Score boosts into whatever stat would be best for the class that they find themselves best suited for based on their stat rolls through the first day.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I think the biggest challenge will be appropriately integrating the class abilities and spellcasting into the story. Trying to open a stuck door is a natural progression for strength (insert other example for ability scores and skills). But figuring out how to work, say, the Archfey Warlocks level 1 ability, which is a distinct action specific to combat/social encounters, or figuring out that you have access to the prestidigitation spell will be very hard to do naturally, and progression will be very slow as a result (imaging having to do a "reveal" for all spells, abilities, etc and you can see how long it would take for the PCs to 'unlock' even the limited abilities at level 1.)
I would definitely try to group some of these "memory jogs" other wise you will spend weeks with level 1 characters trying to figure out what they can do. I do think its a cool concept though with the right players.
This gimmick lasts for less than a single session, at which point you have a table of players who didn't get to play the classes they wanted.
This is an example of one of those situations where someone has an idea that sounds different and novel, but ultimately it removes a significant part of the fun of the game for the players. Pacifist campaigns, playing all one class campaigns, ultra-low-magic campaigns - they all sound like you've come up with something new, but in truth, you've made it new by removing some of the fun of the game (and in this case, one of the most important parts). I'd be astonished if you could find a group of players who thought that this was more fun than giving them any agency at all.
You basically remove their choices of class, equipment, ability score designation, and background. So the players get almost no say in any aspect of what they have to end up playing, and have to go through a clunky process of generating ability scores whilst they're supposed to be in an adventure.
My group is currently playing in an Amnesia campaign, but we determined things differently.
We created level 1 characters with everything determined like normal such as stats, skills, race, class, feats if applicable (three of us started as variant humans), our starting equipment, and everything else which we provided to the Dm. We also provided a backstory of our characters to the DM, who they were and there basic personality and all that.
And then, we all woke up in a dungeon together chained to the wall with weak restraints, in only undergarments, no memories of anything but the most basic knowledge, and strange devices in our heads. As we all were trying to escape the dungeon, the Dm would subtly hint things out to us whenever we would be in a situation that one of us could potentially solve using our particular talents. For example, I was a Warlock, so when we got attacked the Dm asked me to make a Arcana check. When I succeeded, he said I responded instinctually by using a cantrip I would most commonly use (Ray of Frost for me). That made my character realize I could perform magic.
When we completed the dungeon, we found our equipment, personal items, and some basic information about the character's backstory to help give us a general guide to ourselves while we left on the journey to self discovery and finding out why we were all in this predicament in the first place. For example, my character found out through the information that he was a Noble of some kind and had magical talent. However it wasn't until many sessions later that he learned he was actually a Prince of a kingdom and that he was in fact a Warlock.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I think you're right that this has a risk of being an unfun slog for a lot of players. But I personally like the idea of not being able to plan ahead or build an optimum character and see how it goes. This definitely isn't a game that will be fun for most people... I think you're far more likely to find players who find the whole thing to be an annoyance and who end up with a goofy character they don't care about by the time it's done. It's something that requires a lot of buy-in, and even then, some people who think this sounds like a hoot might find that it ends up just being a pain in the ass. But I don't think that means that it's a terrible idea that no one ever would enjoy. I, personally, don't enjoy games like Monster Hunter which require huge time sinks to gather material and crafting in order to then survive another huge time sink of slowly whittling down a creature's health to get more material to whittle down the health of the next biggest creature, but I wouldn't say that just because I don't like that kind of gameplay that there's no one out there who would.
If Ogre came in and said, "Hey, I'm gonna surprise my players by putting them in this wacky situation where they have to invent their character on-the-fly as the game progresses and they're stuck with what they randomly end up with", that would be a terrible idea. But if we assume the players will be informed about this game concept and they're excited to try it, then I say go for it. Sometimes getting of your comfort zone as a player can be a good thing.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
hence the players choosing three class options to begin with.
Everyone of my players is well aware of the mechanics involved with this campaign. I am treating it like a play test. I currently run two games a week, the first is getting close to reaching the bbeg (by level 10) and the amnesia game will be every other week, while I work on the second half of the first campaign, also one of my players wants to run a game on the opposite week. But I have explained my idea to them and they are exited to try it out. If it doesn't work, no harm no foul.
Why not remove the game mechanics and make it a narrative session zero. As someone pointed out the amnesia thing only lasts for session one anyway. So instead of coming up with encounters for that session come up with conversation’s to have with them about their characters and how they react to being cast adrift on a deserted island.
Use your amnesia set up but make it an interactive back and forth about what they have been upto since being stranded, what weapons have they fashioned etc. You and your players might get more out of that rather than playing a blank character sheet to fill it.
The amnesia will last for more than one session, bits and pieces will be remembered over time, like why were they on the ship in the first place, what happened to the crew? Other important information.
Sure but the amnesia in regards to their character sheet is session 1 only
the other thing to consider is wether D&D is the right tool for this mechanic - have you looked at something like Blades in the dark which is built around the idea of flashbacks to why you know how to do something