This has been wandering around in my skull, since a couple threads opened up.
Given how difficult it is to get 6-8 encounters into a gaming day, I am debating cutting back on the available spell slots for a full caster (Sorcerers, I may need to exempt, due to their spell slot for Metamagic point conversion). I want full casters to have to manage their spell resources, when they are only facing 3 or 4 encounters in a day.
Anyway, looking for input:
First 4 levels, no changes.
5th level: 3/3/2
6th level: 3/2/3
7th level: 2/2/3/1
8th level: 2/2/3/2
9th level: 2/2/2/3/1
10th level: 2/2/2/2/2
11th level: 2/2/2/2/2/1
12th and beyond...probably add one spell slot per level, starting with a 1st level slot at 12th, 2nd level spell slot at 14th, 3rd at 16th, etc
20th level: Who cares, they are gods at that level anyway.
Hmm that is tough... are you also planning to nerf other things that recharge on long rest, such as rage, bardic inspiration (before level 5), lay on hands, channel divinity (for a paladin), etc.? Otherwise it feels like you are nerfing the full spellcasters and not other long rest dependent characters. Also what about spell slots for classes like paladins, warlocks, rangers? There will always be classes that are more short rest dependent and others that are long rest dependent, and I get what you are trying to do, but if you are not careful you could create more balance problems than you solve.
I think given only the changes you suggest, all else being equal I would use a paladin in that game.
One more thought, when you use the term "cutting back" do you mean changing the available spell slots mid campaign after the players are used to playing RAW? If so I would expect some major pushback from the players. If this is all known up front in session zero when they are deciding what character they want to play, hey, it's your table, your rules, and at least they knew ahead of time.
The up and down seems weird, when you drop from 3 to 2. I get what your doing, as they get a higher level spell, they lose a lower level (At least I think that’s what you’re doing). It just feels odd that as I got more powerful, I lost something in the mix. Maybe just cap at 2 instead of 3? Though this would impact earlier levels as well, I think.
I don't think this would do much for the problem of casters going nova when encounters per day are low. One thing I've considered is a very low number of spell slots, and every time you spend hit dice you can recover some of them.
1. This would indeed be a session 0 kind of thing.
2. I have not considered half-casters and third-casters yet, since I don't believe I am looking at any in my new campaign.I don't really have an issue with other short/long rest features of non full casters, though I consider any Paladin as OP once it hits 7th level.
3. Yeah, a spellcaster can still go full nova. I kind of like the idea of burning HD, but I already have a House Rule on burning HD to regain HP, and that would be a double-whammy on a full caster.
3. Yeah, a spellcaster can still go full nova. I kind of like the idea of burning HD, but I already have a House Rule on burning HD to regain HP, and that would be a double-whammy on a full caster.
I didn't mean it directly cost HD -- I meant every time you spend HD you also recover some other resources (also tempted to require spending a minimum number of HD to recover short rest abilities).
You’re having that many issues with spellcasters? I haven’t had many issues yet up to level 14 or so. I find it helpful to add a lot more traps, obstacles, and hazards between each full encounter during the day really helps suck the spells dry. Especially once the front liners start to run out of Hit Dice and can’t tank as much, the spellcasters definitely start casting more just out of necessity.
Also, at higher levels the smart enemies target them incessantly - they use a lot of defensive and evasion spells.
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This has been wandering around in my skull, since a couple threads opened up.
Given how difficult it is to get 6-8 encounters into a gaming day, I am debating cutting back on the available spell slots for a full caster (Sorcerers, I may need to exempt, due to their spell slot for Metamagic point conversion). I want full casters to have to manage their spell resources, when they are only facing 3 or 4 encounters in a day.
Anyway, looking for input:
First 4 levels, no changes.
5th level: 3/3/2
6th level: 3/2/3
7th level: 2/2/3/1
8th level: 2/2/3/2
9th level: 2/2/2/3/1
10th level: 2/2/2/2/2
11th level: 2/2/2/2/2/1
12th and beyond...probably add one spell slot per level, starting with a 1st level slot at 12th, 2nd level spell slot at 14th, 3rd at 16th, etc
20th level: Who cares, they are gods at that level anyway.
Hmm that is tough... are you also planning to nerf other things that recharge on long rest, such as rage, bardic inspiration (before level 5), lay on hands, channel divinity (for a paladin), etc.? Otherwise it feels like you are nerfing the full spellcasters and not other long rest dependent characters. Also what about spell slots for classes like paladins, warlocks, rangers? There will always be classes that are more short rest dependent and others that are long rest dependent, and I get what you are trying to do, but if you are not careful you could create more balance problems than you solve.
I think given only the changes you suggest, all else being equal I would use a paladin in that game.
One more thought, when you use the term "cutting back" do you mean changing the available spell slots mid campaign after the players are used to playing RAW? If so I would expect some major pushback from the players. If this is all known up front in session zero when they are deciding what character they want to play, hey, it's your table, your rules, and at least they knew ahead of time.
The up and down seems weird, when you drop from 3 to 2. I get what your doing, as they get a higher level spell, they lose a lower level (At least I think that’s what you’re doing). It just feels odd that as I got more powerful, I lost something in the mix. Maybe just cap at 2 instead of 3? Though this would impact earlier levels as well, I think.
I don't think this would do much for the problem of casters going nova when encounters per day are low. One thing I've considered is a very low number of spell slots, and every time you spend hit dice you can recover some of them.
In response to the various questions:
1. This would indeed be a session 0 kind of thing.
2. I have not considered half-casters and third-casters yet, since I don't believe I am looking at any in my new campaign.I don't really have an issue with other short/long rest features of non full casters, though I consider any Paladin as OP once it hits 7th level.
3. Yeah, a spellcaster can still go full nova. I kind of like the idea of burning HD, but I already have a House Rule on burning HD to regain HP, and that would be a double-whammy on a full caster.
I didn't mean it directly cost HD -- I meant every time you spend HD you also recover some other resources (also tempted to require spending a minimum number of HD to recover short rest abilities).
You’re having that many issues with spellcasters? I haven’t had many issues yet up to level 14 or so. I find it helpful to add a lot more traps, obstacles, and hazards between each full encounter during the day really helps suck the spells dry. Especially once the front liners start to run out of Hit Dice and can’t tank as much, the spellcasters definitely start casting more just out of necessity.
Also, at higher levels the smart enemies target them incessantly - they use a lot of defensive and evasion spells.