I'm not sold on the idea of my players getting a manor-inn as a reward for the level 1 mission in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. I think it'd be more open world and fun if they're based in Yawning Portal where side quests can come to them a bit more readily. But Chapter 2 has some good stuff in it too that seems tied to that Manor – the side plot with the rival for instance.
Anyone played or heard of alternatives to this reward at the end of Chapter 1? I imagine I can keep the Factions coming to them with jobs, and purchase the Waterdeep Jobs Board thing or otherwise create a jobs board for the players to get some cash over what would be Chapter 2 and going into Chapter 3.
imo, its all about how you want to manage that manor....i've gone through WDH as a player and as a DM and both times it was the single best part of the book. you don't have to make it a freebie...keep in mind, they're getting a dilapidated building - as much a liability as a reward.
I agree with Heathsmith. I've played through Waterdeep: Dragon Heist and one of THE best and most fun aspects as a player was having the Trollskull Inn and Tavern as a home and refuge. Hanging out the Yawning Portal just isn't as much fun or as interesting.
The party I was with were mostly Zhentarim while I was a lone secret Harper keeping tabs on these unpredictable Zhents. A lot of the character actions and roleplay started to revolve around our inn. We recruited various NPCs to work at the tavern ... including some were rats we rescued from the sewers. Unique items we found adventuring became decorations for the tavern. So overall, having the tavern for a base of operations was a fun experience. In addition, running a tavern made for a social environment where side quests could come to us AND we were able to run a "Company of Adventurers" allowing us to pick and choose which characters to use as we expanded play beyond DH into DotMM.
So, it is up to you, but as a player I certainly found the tavern a fun role playing device.
My concern is that this is the 2nd adventure ever for most of the PCs in my group, and Waterdeep itself should be a bit of a challenge in that respect. I figure the flavoring of a "hustle to make money to pay rent" would be one that keeps them moving. Also since this is happening over Zoom the feel for it otherwise just might be off.
Don't get me wrong, I can see where getting the manor as a Chapter 2 or 3 reward could work out well. They established themselves, did some jobs to have some money; and have it so that Volo's mission to the manor is a bit bigger. I'm thinking that instead of just outright getting it as a reward they could either 1) have access to it but have to pay rent or fix it up first as like a contractor mission (with Volo in the end just giving it to them), or 2) Volo says he can sell them the manor at an achievable gold cost (5000gp or the like), incentivizing them to go hustle.
if you're handy with image editing, you could consider taking the provided layout of trollskull manor and updating as things progress. that's what i did and they loved it. each adventure brought back something they could add...with the best imo being the mechanical beholder...they drug it around the rest of adventure (pretty much taking one character out of the fight for the rest of the game as he was the lugging it around), brought it home, and rigged it up as a disco light. I took the wererats and had them move in next door - a total infestation. they ended up clearing it out (destroying a decent chunk of their newly refurbished inn in the process) and the city rewarded the players by razing the neighboring building and giving them the empty lot...which they converted into a beer garden. they put a fight club in the attic (complete with benches and popcorn machine), and changed the floorplan on the 2nd-3rd floors to accommodate guests better.
the place doesn't actually make them much money beyond what's needed for further upgrades as there's constantly expensive problems popping up (the only money they really make is off of adventuring)...but they loved the whole thing. to the point that they looked more forward to coming back from an adventure than going out.
they even converted one room into a gaming room...where customers can come in, sit down, and play the fifth edition version of 'Offices and Humans, the Role Playing Game'.
My concern is that this is the 2nd adventure ever for most of the PCs in my group, and Waterdeep itself should be a bit of a challenge in that respect. I figure the flavoring of a "hustle to make money to pay rent" would be one that keeps them moving. Also since this is happening over Zoom the feel for it otherwise just might be off.
Don't get me wrong, I can see where getting the manor as a Chapter 2 or 3 reward could work out well. They established themselves, did some jobs to have some money; and have it so that Volo's mission to the manor is a bit bigger. I'm thinking that instead of just outright getting it as a reward they could either 1) have access to it but have to pay rent or fix it up first as like a contractor mission (with Volo in the end just giving it to them), or 2) Volo says he can sell them the manor at an achievable gold cost (5000gp or the like), incentivizing them to go hustle.
Open to input of course.
Those are all good ideas. It you aren't planning on letting them keep a massive amount of gold at the end then having Volo offer to sell it to them for a reduced price due to their help + costs of fixing it up ... could help keep the characters interested and broke for quite some time. :)
I'm trying to stretch Dragon Heist out a bit and really fill it with side-quests – Critical Role is a big influence in this, but also RPGs like Witcher and Elder Scrolls, which the PCs have played and so might be familiar with that open-ended way of going about things. Plus it makes for more character development maybe! If things go well I can just continue with them into Mad Mage this way.
I'm trying to stretch Dragon Heist out a bit and really fill it with side-quests – Critical Role is a big influence in this, but also RPGs like Witcher and Elder Scrolls, which the PCs have played and so might be familiar with that open-ended way of going about things. Plus it makes for more character development maybe! If things go well I can just continue with them into Mad Mage this way.
check out the Blue Alley adventure on dmsguild...that was a fun one for us...and they freed a boggle and brought him home as a hired hand for the tavern.
I was looking at dmsguild's stuff like Sewers of the Rat King and such – but that idea too of having some "rescue" quests that can then turn into NPCs helping out in the manor-tavern-inn might be interesting.
I'm trying to stretch Dragon Heist out a bit and really fill it with side-quests – Critical Role is a big influence in this, but also RPGs like Witcher and Elder Scrolls, which the PCs have played and so might be familiar with that open-ended way of going about things. Plus it makes for more character development maybe! If things go well I can just continue with them into Mad Mage this way.
You can also look at the adventures in Tales from the Yawning Portal. It is a collection of dungeon type adventures for the most part that would require some traveling from Waterdeep but they would mix well as "side" quests or other activities for a group based in Waterdeep. I've played DotMM down to about level 7 and unless your players absolutely LOVE dungeon crawling, DotMM can get a bit stale. Setting adventures, even dungeon ones, outside Waterdeep and having some adventures while traveling there can break up exploring DotMM.
In addition, you could also include some of the adventures from Ghosts of Saltmarsh or even the higher level adventure extras in Dragon of Ice Spire Peak for some more variety.
(I am currently running a campaign based around GoS+TftYP tied together with a bit of extra structure. I may add in the adventures from DoIP if there is a good way to tie them in ... overall, it is working out well. The other starting point I considered for this campaign instead of GoS was W:DH ... either could work well.)
In the Star Wars RPG by FFG, parties often start off with a beat down star ship, which gets them from adventure to adventure... and keeping the damn thing flying is as much a part of the game as anything else. Think Firefly...
I could see the Inn being much the same. I agree that it's a lot to hand low level characters, and that bumping it up to later levels is much more in keeping with the sound of your game. But believe me - if you're worried about what they are going to do with all of that hard earned gold, your worries are gone.
Rebuilding a dilapidated building like that, especially if they want to turn it into an inn, should take almost all of their cash.
All. Of. It. They should be going adventuring just to get more money to pay the craftsmen.
And now they have employees, with problems that need money, and time, and side adventures to deal with.
And don't even get me started on what happens when the Thief's Guild comes by to 'restart the arrangement they had with the prior owners'...
heres how our campaign went... maybe a couple of sessions left.
I would say our party which I DM have put in 60 hours into Waterdeep Dragon Heist, 2 hours most weeks on a Sunday from last June, give or take an odd, missed session. I have found it a challenging module to DM because of the nature of the open world city, players have so much choice that they can go off on tangents. We are playing it in Summer setting.
In our campaign, they ended up making an orphan refuge out of Trollskull manor, this irritated the poltergeist who kept them awake at night (exhaustion level 1 for any who failed saves). Eventually they had it exorcised. Main quest went ok, although they got distracted with the Nimblewright detector which picked the ones up on Captain Zords ships.. this caused a few issues but eventually Zord invited them to dinner to see how he could use the Pcs for his own uses in obtaining the gold. I did run Blue Alley in the middle of the adventure in between chapter 2 and 3, I did quite like the Blue Alley side quest and that brought them working with Mirt a bit closer. The factions they were mainly doing work for was the Grey hands and the Harpers, again I found I had to flesh out the mini side quests a little, I was not keen on how they wanted them to be run.
Eventually they tracked down the Nimblewright, Captain Zord (they don’t know this) tipped off the Temple of Gond who in turn contacted the Pc's to track down the automaton and destroy it. They went to the Gralhund Villa but alerted the guards, a couple went in and stopped the Zents killing off the Gralhunds etc. Now the classic situation has now occurred was where they delayed chasing up on the information found on the Nimblewright, they got distracted by the Days of Wonder Parade... so turning up late to the mausoleum and then the Windmill turned it into a mini-investigation as opposed to chase as the stone already had been moved... I did play out that the stone got stolen briefly by some street urchins (stree chase bit) in the parade, but they got tracked down and killed (bar one) by Utsol Floxin who then handed the stone to the Cassalanters. They have now all got most of the gold out of the vault and have arranged the feast for two days’ time, I’m saying founder’s day is a like a bank holiday after days of wonder parade... Renear is going to get the pcs and invite to the feast, half will be nobles and the other half will be common folk...
How will it go, will the common folk pcs end up eating the poisoned broth that the Cassalanter cook is serving up, will they stop the sacrifice going ahead and save the gold being through into the sacrificial burning pit but then find out they have just helped two children’s souls go off to the devil (oh the Paladin and Cleric will love that one)
On next week’s outing :)
Summary, good adventure but be prepared to add in some prep time, Waterdeep City encounters helped a bit for random stuff, Blue Alley is a nice side track and gets them some gold, items and a unicorn.. (although a mini one at the mo)
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I'm not sold on the idea of my players getting a manor-inn as a reward for the level 1 mission in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. I think it'd be more open world and fun if they're based in Yawning Portal where side quests can come to them a bit more readily. But Chapter 2 has some good stuff in it too that seems tied to that Manor – the side plot with the rival for instance.
Anyone played or heard of alternatives to this reward at the end of Chapter 1? I imagine I can keep the Factions coming to them with jobs, and purchase the Waterdeep Jobs Board thing or otherwise create a jobs board for the players to get some cash over what would be Chapter 2 and going into Chapter 3.
imo, its all about how you want to manage that manor....i've gone through WDH as a player and as a DM and both times it was the single best part of the book. you don't have to make it a freebie...keep in mind, they're getting a dilapidated building - as much a liability as a reward.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I agree with Heathsmith. I've played through Waterdeep: Dragon Heist and one of THE best and most fun aspects as a player was having the Trollskull Inn and Tavern as a home and refuge. Hanging out the Yawning Portal just isn't as much fun or as interesting.
The party I was with were mostly Zhentarim while I was a lone secret Harper keeping tabs on these unpredictable Zhents. A lot of the character actions and roleplay started to revolve around our inn. We recruited various NPCs to work at the tavern ... including some were rats we rescued from the sewers. Unique items we found adventuring became decorations for the tavern. So overall, having the tavern for a base of operations was a fun experience. In addition, running a tavern made for a social environment where side quests could come to us AND we were able to run a "Company of Adventurers" allowing us to pick and choose which characters to use as we expanded play beyond DH into DotMM.
So, it is up to you, but as a player I certainly found the tavern a fun role playing device.
My concern is that this is the 2nd adventure ever for most of the PCs in my group, and Waterdeep itself should be a bit of a challenge in that respect. I figure the flavoring of a "hustle to make money to pay rent" would be one that keeps them moving. Also since this is happening over Zoom the feel for it otherwise just might be off.
Don't get me wrong, I can see where getting the manor as a Chapter 2 or 3 reward could work out well. They established themselves, did some jobs to have some money; and have it so that Volo's mission to the manor is a bit bigger. I'm thinking that instead of just outright getting it as a reward they could either 1) have access to it but have to pay rent or fix it up first as like a contractor mission (with Volo in the end just giving it to them), or 2) Volo says he can sell them the manor at an achievable gold cost (5000gp or the like), incentivizing them to go hustle.
Open to input of course.
if you're handy with image editing, you could consider taking the provided layout of trollskull manor and updating as things progress. that's what i did and they loved it. each adventure brought back something they could add...with the best imo being the mechanical beholder...they drug it around the rest of adventure (pretty much taking one character out of the fight for the rest of the game as he was the lugging it around), brought it home, and rigged it up as a disco light. I took the wererats and had them move in next door - a total infestation. they ended up clearing it out (destroying a decent chunk of their newly refurbished inn in the process) and the city rewarded the players by razing the neighboring building and giving them the empty lot...which they converted into a beer garden. they put a fight club in the attic (complete with benches and popcorn machine), and changed the floorplan on the 2nd-3rd floors to accommodate guests better.
the place doesn't actually make them much money beyond what's needed for further upgrades as there's constantly expensive problems popping up (the only money they really make is off of adventuring)...but they loved the whole thing. to the point that they looked more forward to coming back from an adventure than going out.
they even converted one room into a gaming room...where customers can come in, sit down, and play the fifth edition version of 'Offices and Humans, the Role Playing Game'.
here's the latest pics: https://dndramblings.blogspot.com/2020/12/trollskull-manor.html
...and they enclosed the stairwell...who puts a stairwell outside?? o.O
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Those are all good ideas. It you aren't planning on letting them keep a massive amount of gold at the end then having Volo offer to sell it to them for a reduced price due to their help + costs of fixing it up ... could help keep the characters interested and broke for quite some time. :)
I'm trying to stretch Dragon Heist out a bit and really fill it with side-quests – Critical Role is a big influence in this, but also RPGs like Witcher and Elder Scrolls, which the PCs have played and so might be familiar with that open-ended way of going about things. Plus it makes for more character development maybe! If things go well I can just continue with them into Mad Mage this way.
check out the Blue Alley adventure on dmsguild...that was a fun one for us...and they freed a boggle and brought him home as a hired hand for the tavern.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I was looking at dmsguild's stuff like Sewers of the Rat King and such – but that idea too of having some "rescue" quests that can then turn into NPCs helping out in the manor-tavern-inn might be interesting.
You can also look at the adventures in Tales from the Yawning Portal. It is a collection of dungeon type adventures for the most part that would require some traveling from Waterdeep but they would mix well as "side" quests or other activities for a group based in Waterdeep. I've played DotMM down to about level 7 and unless your players absolutely LOVE dungeon crawling, DotMM can get a bit stale. Setting adventures, even dungeon ones, outside Waterdeep and having some adventures while traveling there can break up exploring DotMM.
In addition, you could also include some of the adventures from Ghosts of Saltmarsh or even the higher level adventure extras in Dragon of Ice Spire Peak for some more variety.
(I am currently running a campaign based around GoS+TftYP tied together with a bit of extra structure. I may add in the adventures from DoIP if there is a good way to tie them in ... overall, it is working out well. The other starting point I considered for this campaign instead of GoS was W:DH ... either could work well.)
In the Star Wars RPG by FFG, parties often start off with a beat down star ship, which gets them from adventure to adventure... and keeping the damn thing flying is as much a part of the game as anything else. Think Firefly...
I could see the Inn being much the same. I agree that it's a lot to hand low level characters, and that bumping it up to later levels is much more in keeping with the sound of your game. But believe me - if you're worried about what they are going to do with all of that hard earned gold, your worries are gone.
Rebuilding a dilapidated building like that, especially if they want to turn it into an inn, should take almost all of their cash.
All. Of. It. They should be going adventuring just to get more money to pay the craftsmen.
And now they have employees, with problems that need money, and time, and side adventures to deal with.
And don't even get me started on what happens when the Thief's Guild comes by to 'restart the arrangement they had with the prior owners'...
heres how our campaign went... maybe a couple of sessions left.
I would say our party which I DM have put in 60 hours into Waterdeep Dragon Heist, 2 hours most weeks on a Sunday from last June, give or take an odd, missed session. I have found it a challenging module to DM because of the nature of the open world city, players have so much choice that they can go off on tangents. We are playing it in Summer setting.
In our campaign, they ended up making an orphan refuge out of Trollskull manor, this irritated the poltergeist who kept them awake at night (exhaustion level 1 for any who failed saves). Eventually they had it exorcised. Main quest went ok, although they got distracted with the Nimblewright detector which picked the ones up on Captain Zords ships.. this caused a few issues but eventually Zord invited them to dinner to see how he could use the Pcs for his own uses in obtaining the gold. I did run Blue Alley in the middle of the adventure in between chapter 2 and 3, I did quite like the Blue Alley side quest and that brought them working with Mirt a bit closer. The factions they were mainly doing work for was the Grey hands and the Harpers, again I found I had to flesh out the mini side quests a little, I was not keen on how they wanted them to be run.
Eventually they tracked down the Nimblewright, Captain Zord (they don’t know this) tipped off the Temple of Gond who in turn contacted the Pc's to track down the automaton and destroy it. They went to the Gralhund Villa but alerted the guards, a couple went in and stopped the Zents killing off the Gralhunds etc. Now the classic situation has now occurred was where they delayed chasing up on the information found on the Nimblewright, they got distracted by the Days of Wonder Parade... so turning up late to the mausoleum and then the Windmill turned it into a mini-investigation as opposed to chase as the stone already had been moved... I did play out that the stone got stolen briefly by some street urchins (stree chase bit) in the parade, but they got tracked down and killed (bar one) by Utsol Floxin who then handed the stone to the Cassalanters. They have now all got most of the gold out of the vault and have arranged the feast for two days’ time, I’m saying founder’s day is a like a bank holiday after days of wonder parade... Renear is going to get the pcs and invite to the feast, half will be nobles and the other half will be common folk...
How will it go, will the common folk pcs end up eating the poisoned broth that the Cassalanter cook is serving up, will they stop the sacrifice going ahead and save the gold being through into the sacrificial burning pit but then find out they have just helped two children’s souls go off to the devil (oh the Paladin and Cleric will love that one)
On next week’s outing :)
Summary, good adventure but be prepared to add in some prep time, Waterdeep City encounters helped a bit for random stuff, Blue Alley is a nice side track and gets them some gold, items and a unicorn.. (although a mini one at the mo)