In the game I'm running the players are part of the Honourable Company of Explorers and Messengers and its the Lord Elects show, and they are going to have to entertain the (vulgar) populace. They're going to have the opportunity to do a number of things but one big thing I've got planning is a 15 minute panto/mummers play for them to actual perform in game (or fail hilariously to perform) I want to keep the play short (15 Minutes) and simple so I was thinking of cannibalising a mummers / mystery play or a short panto script. They're going to get the script in game 1 and time to prepair, and play it in game 2.
Has anyone ever run a game with the players actually performing a play? any thoughts? ideas? advice please?
I wouldn’t. The characters have to perform the play, not the players. For the characters to do it requires a series of Performance or Instrument Ability Checks. For the players to do it requires them to act.
In the game I'm running the players are part of the Honourable Company of Explorers and Messengers and its the Lord Elects show, and they are going to have to entertain the (vulgar) populace. They're going to have the opportunity to do a number of things but one big thing I've got planning is a 15 minute panto/mummers play for them to actual perform in game (or fail hilariously to perform) I want to keep the play short (15 Minutes) and simple so I was thinking of cannibalising a mummers / mystery play or a short panto script. They're going to get the script in game 1 and time to prepair, and play it in game 2.
Has anyone ever run a game with the players actually performing a play? any thoughts? ideas? advice please?
Are all your players onboard of performing a play within a play (every player in D&D is an actor)? I mean, it sounds cool and fun, but I know of many a player that would balk at the idea.
15 minutes is an EXTRAORDINARILY long time to sustain a bit like this. Unless your players are theater majors or, worse, actual performers, this is not a setup for hilarious failure, it's a setup for frustrating failure. You will never see a 15-minute long sketch on TV.
What you MIGHT pull off is a table read, where you give them the script and they read it out loud. The two things you need to do to make this work, imo: 1) Five minutes worth of text, maximum - five pages typed, double-spaced, then get a timer and check; 2) Instead of using some incomprehensible medieval mystery play, adapt something and then use the adaptation to teach your players something about the world and give them hints about the upcoming campaign, stuff that they can use, so that they want to engage with the text.
Maybe you can run it as a 4e style skill challenge?
Yeah, that's Bio's answer to everything, but I really like skill challenges....
I don’t use the 4e skill challenges RAW, I use the quick-and-dirty version instead. That’s probably because I skipped 4e.
Although sometimes I do group challenges the way they were in 3e. One person in the group makes “The Check,” but first everyone else gets to make a check and their degrees of accumulated success lower the DC of “The Check.” (So the DC may start at something absurd, like 45, but it could get dropped all the way down as low as 10 since 9 or lower would be an automatic success.
I love skill checks but for something like this they would be perfect, but ultimately what is the aim of this part of the story, will it give them the chance to gain a new ally if they succeed, or flush out a bad guy who wants to kill one of the original cast. If the only purpose is to entertain yourself question why it’s in and why the characters would actually want to go through with it.
Scarloc has a good point. The "Play within a play" in Hamlet was meant to get the King to give himself away, for example, so there is a purpose to having it performed ("The play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king."). So the reason we as an audience are asked to sit through watching a play being performed within the play is to see Claudius' reaction, and Hamlet then knows Claudius killed his father (oops - spoiler alert!).
Likewise, performing this play should be for a purpose. If done as a skill challenge, success means they achieve their purpose (Claudius gives himself away). Failure means they do not (Claudius remains stoic and reveals nothing).
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Scarloc has a good point. The "Play within a play" in Hamlet was meant to get the King to give himself away, for example, so there is a purpose to having it performed ("The play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king."). So the reason we as an audience are asked to sit through watching a play being performed within the play is to see Claudius' reaction, and Hamlet then knows Claudius killed his father (oops - spoiler alert!).
Likewise, performing this play should be for a purpose. If done as a skill challenge, success means they achieve their purpose (Claudius gives himself away). Failure means they do not (Claudius remains stoic and reveals nothing).
In addition you could combine the skill challenge with roleplay elements, the way I do this is to adjust the DC based on how well the players actually roleplay it, this is all very hand wavey but my players understand that how they roleplay determines how easily the skill checks will be.
Thats mainly what I was thinking, give them the script and they read of there places (Perhaps I shouldn't have said perform, its being done over voice chat so it can only be read). 15 minutes was just a ball park figure, maybe a five minute play but over 15 minutes to accomadate all the checks and things.
Looking back I probably wasn't too clear in my choice of words;
The game is being played over voice chat so performance wise its only reading through the script, I was thinking players would also do performance checks for their lines etc but the checks are easier the more roleplaying they put into it (which is what I do for the game anyway) maybe a 5 minute play but spread over 15 minutes for all the checks.
Its also not for all the players, I know some would not want to actualy perform so only about half the players (there will be 8 in the game) will be in the play the others will be pulling the ropes backstage (and hopfully foiling an assasination plot) I was planing on useing a mystery play / mummers play or short panto as the base and restyling it to fit the world as they're short and relativly easy (Mummers / mystery plays are more poetry then a play) I was wanting a venician comedy to use as a base but I'm limited on the scripts I can find :(
Needless to say I will be fitting it into the world and there will be reasons for the whys and wherefores but I was just concerned about the machanics and if anyone had done one before? I'm thinking of useing a random table for things to happen, like a rope snapping with a weight on the end, or a curtain comming down etc.
Some I know will be, other probably not so out of the 8 playing in the game I'm gearing it for about half actualy on stage and the others pulling the ropes behind scenes.
Looking back I probably wasn't too clear in my choice of words;
The game is being played over voice chat so performance wise its only reading through the script, I was thinking players would also do performance checks for their lines etc but the checks are easier the more roleplaying they put into it (which is what I do for the game anyway) maybe a 5 minute play but spread over 15 minutes for all the checks.
Its also not for all the players, I know some would not want to actualy perform so only about half the players (there will be 8 in the game) will be in the play the others will be pulling the ropes backstage (and hopfully foiling an assasination plot) I was planing on useing a mystery play / mummers play or short panto as the base and restyling it to fit the world as they're short and relativly easy (Mummers / mystery plays are more poetry then a play) I was wanting a venician comedy to use as a base but I'm limited on the scripts I can find :(
Needless to say I will be fitting it into the world and there will be reasons for the whys and wherefores but I was just concerned about the machanics and if anyone had done one before? I'm thinking of useing a random table for things to happen, like a rope snapping with a weight on the end, or a curtain comming down etc.
Personally for a narrative moment such as this I really dislike random tables, I mean I really dislike random tables anyway, even when planning out random encounters for travel through an area I will have that all mapped out before hand based on the eco system and whats going on.
The only theatre experience I have ever created was in the Fey Wild, a magically cursed outdoor theatre anyone who stumbles on it has a chance of becoming trapped, once trapped they become the cast and audience attempting to entertain a powerful fey . I did have rules written down for how I was going to run it all if my players got caught up in it, they ignored it and just bypassed it. Yet another case of hours of prep and backstory, including a description of the play, cast of characters and rough idea of the key moments of the script I will see if I can dig it out some of it may be useful, although it was written as more of a 2-3 session encounter (if some or all the characters got trapped)
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In the game I'm running the players are part of the Honourable Company of Explorers and Messengers and its the Lord Elects show, and they are going to have to entertain the (vulgar) populace. They're going to have the opportunity to do a number of things but one big thing I've got planning is a 15 minute panto/mummers play for them to actual perform in game (or fail hilariously to perform) I want to keep the play short (15 Minutes) and simple so I was thinking of cannibalising a mummers / mystery play or a short panto script. They're going to get the script in game 1 and time to prepair, and play it in game 2.
Has anyone ever run a game with the players actually performing a play? any thoughts? ideas? advice please?
I wouldn’t. The characters have to perform the play, not the players. For the characters to do it requires a series of Performance or Instrument Ability Checks. For the players to do it requires them to act.
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Maybe you can run it as a 4e style skill challenge?
Yeah, that's Bio's answer to everything, but I really like skill challenges....
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Are all your players onboard of performing a play within a play (every player in D&D is an actor)? I mean, it sounds cool and fun, but I know of many a player that would balk at the idea.
15 minutes is an EXTRAORDINARILY long time to sustain a bit like this. Unless your players are theater majors or, worse, actual performers, this is not a setup for hilarious failure, it's a setup for frustrating failure. You will never see a 15-minute long sketch on TV.
What you MIGHT pull off is a table read, where you give them the script and they read it out loud. The two things you need to do to make this work, imo: 1) Five minutes worth of text, maximum - five pages typed, double-spaced, then get a timer and check; 2) Instead of using some incomprehensible medieval mystery play, adapt something and then use the adaptation to teach your players something about the world and give them hints about the upcoming campaign, stuff that they can use, so that they want to engage with the text.
I don’t use the 4e skill challenges RAW, I use the quick-and-dirty version instead. That’s probably because I skipped 4e.
Although sometimes I do group challenges the way they were in 3e. One person in the group makes “The Check,” but first everyone else gets to make a check and their degrees of accumulated success lower the DC of “The Check.” (So the DC may start at something absurd, like 45, but it could get dropped all the way down as low as 10 since 9 or lower would be an automatic success.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Content Troubleshooting
I don't follow 4e RAW either, which is why I said "4e style."
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I love skill checks but for something like this they would be perfect, but ultimately what is the aim of this part of the story, will it give them the chance to gain a new ally if they succeed, or flush out a bad guy who wants to kill one of the original cast. If the only purpose is to entertain yourself question why it’s in and why the characters would actually want to go through with it.
Scarloc has a good point. The "Play within a play" in Hamlet was meant to get the King to give himself away, for example, so there is a purpose to having it performed ("The play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king."). So the reason we as an audience are asked to sit through watching a play being performed within the play is to see Claudius' reaction, and Hamlet then knows Claudius killed his father (oops - spoiler alert!).
Likewise, performing this play should be for a purpose. If done as a skill challenge, success means they achieve their purpose (Claudius gives himself away). Failure means they do not (Claudius remains stoic and reveals nothing).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
In addition you could combine the skill challenge with roleplay elements, the way I do this is to adjust the DC based on how well the players actually roleplay it, this is all very hand wavey but my players understand that how they roleplay determines how easily the skill checks will be.
Thats mainly what I was thinking, give them the script and they read of there places (Perhaps I shouldn't have said perform, its being done over voice chat so it can only be read). 15 minutes was just a ball park figure, maybe a five minute play but over 15 minutes to accomadate all the checks and things.
Looking back I probably wasn't too clear in my choice of words;
The game is being played over voice chat so performance wise its only reading through the script, I was thinking players would also do performance checks for their lines etc but the checks are easier the more roleplaying they put into it (which is what I do for the game anyway) maybe a 5 minute play but spread over 15 minutes for all the checks.
Its also not for all the players, I know some would not want to actualy perform so only about half the players (there will be 8 in the game) will be in the play the others will be pulling the ropes backstage (and hopfully foiling an assasination plot) I was planing on useing a mystery play / mummers play or short panto as the base and restyling it to fit the world as they're short and relativly easy (Mummers / mystery plays are more poetry then a play) I was wanting a venician comedy to use as a base but I'm limited on the scripts I can find :(
Needless to say I will be fitting it into the world and there will be reasons for the whys and wherefores but I was just concerned about the machanics and if anyone had done one before? I'm thinking of useing a random table for things to happen, like a rope snapping with a weight on the end, or a curtain comming down etc.
Some I know will be, other probably not so out of the 8 playing in the game I'm gearing it for about half actualy on stage and the others pulling the ropes behind scenes.
Personally for a narrative moment such as this I really dislike random tables, I mean I really dislike random tables anyway, even when planning out random encounters for travel through an area I will have that all mapped out before hand based on the eco system and whats going on.
The only theatre experience I have ever created was in the Fey Wild, a magically cursed outdoor theatre anyone who stumbles on it has a chance of becoming trapped, once trapped they become the cast and audience attempting to entertain a powerful fey . I did have rules written down for how I was going to run it all if my players got caught up in it, they ignored it and just bypassed it. Yet another case of hours of prep and backstory, including a description of the play, cast of characters and rough idea of the key moments of the script I will see if I can dig it out some of it may be useful, although it was written as more of a 2-3 session encounter (if some or all the characters got trapped)