Am about to start HotDQ after rather prolonged LMoP setup, I'm quite happy about Episodes 1 2 3 and adjusting them to my taste. found Sly Flourish HotDQ Adventure Guideparticularly useful.
But I'm having difficulty with the motivational concept behind why Leosin Erlanthar and Onthar Frume in Elturel want/need the adventures to embed in the caravan containing cultist treasure... What is their argument? so far my thoughts as to their motivations why are as follows
1) The adventures are the only ones competent enough for this job and they have no one else on hand? 2) The Adventures are the only ones that could recognise cultists from the camp that are in the caravan and that's the only way they have of tracking them? 3) Leosin Erlanthar and Onthar Frume would do it but Leosin Erlanthar could be recognised and they are both better placed alerting their respective organisations and putting support inplace where ever the caravan with cultist treasure might potentially turn up for the adventures to call on
which then has me thinking for 2) I need some memorable cultists in previous episodes for the adventures to recognise ie grotesk scare, high pitch laugh, constantly twirling a elaborate dagger
How did you sort this bit of HotDQ? any suggestions how to handle this bit?
thanks in advance for any comments thought on the matter
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“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I'm currently running some friends through HotDQ, and the motivations you came up with are perfectly sound. Leosin was attempting to tail the cult, but he got caught and put on display for days, so every member of the cult now knows what he looks like, so he's essentially asking the party to take on the task he couldn't. I also played up the fact that, in my group, at least, they were more clever than Leosin was... they allied themselves with the Kobolds in that first camp, because the Kobolds are generally mistreated and seen as cheap labor by the cultists, since they'll basically do anything for a group that has a Half-Dragon as their leader. They also helped to find some deserters within the camp itself and freed some of the people who were indoctrinated into the cult against their will.
The other thing is that they don't know where all this treasure is going or why, and that's ultimately more important. Leosin is compromised and Frume isn't a spy... assuming the party doesn't reveal themselves to the cultists too blatantly, they're the best option for tracking the treasure and still being able to recognize the cultists. I think including a few memorable cultists is a good exercise for a DM... it's good to customize a module a bit... take an existing character and change them to be more interesting, or introduce new characters that you think will be fun and interesting for the party. You could make some cultists who are intriguing because they're dangerous, or perhaps some that seem more sympathetic.
One thing I did was I played up the idea that the Fields of the Dead are unusually active with Undead activity, and explained it as Tiamat's influence weakening the wall between the 9 Hells and the Material Plane... this meant that Frume and the Order of the Gauntlet were particularly busy with Undead and couldn't just directly take on the cult themselves (and also gave me an excuse to have the party fight some cool undead enemies).
Anyway, I think you're on the right track. I had a bit of luck on my end with my players, since they were using their characters from the Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure we had just played for this adventure, and during that game the majority of my players joined the Harpers already, so they could simply be assigned to this job. That's also part of the reason for some homebrewing... I had to insert new challenges and such since they were starting this adventure at about the level they would have been by the end of it.
Thanks for the reply It's good to hear you think I'm on track with Leosin Erlanthar and Onthar Frumes reasoning, if I'm reasonably convinced as to why then I can usually sell the logic of it to the players... just felt unsure as I didn't find it explicitly stated in the adventure or maybe I'd missed it somehow, so big help dismissing my worries with your feedback.
Yeah I'm in the same boat as to player character level, my introductory LMoP campaign grew multiple hairy legs and ran into many a dark and dank side quest :D but I'm quite happy adjusting homebrewing things, its half the fun of DM'ing sometimes I find...
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
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Am about to start HotDQ after rather prolonged LMoP setup,
I'm quite happy about Episodes 1 2 3 and adjusting them to my taste. found Sly Flourish HotDQ Adventure Guide particularly useful.
But I'm having difficulty with the motivational concept behind why Leosin Erlanthar and Onthar Frume in Elturel want/need the adventures to embed in the caravan containing cultist treasure...
What is their argument?
so far my thoughts as to their motivations why are as follows
1) The adventures are the only ones competent enough for this job and they have no one else on hand?
2) The Adventures are the only ones that could recognise cultists from the camp that are in the caravan and that's the only way they have of tracking them?
3) Leosin Erlanthar and Onthar Frume would do it but Leosin Erlanthar could be recognised and they are both better placed alerting their respective organisations and putting support inplace where ever the caravan with cultist treasure might potentially turn up for the adventures to call on
which then has me thinking for
2) I need some memorable cultists in previous episodes for the adventures to recognise ie grotesk scare, high pitch laugh, constantly twirling a elaborate dagger
How did you sort this bit of HotDQ? any suggestions how to handle this bit?
thanks in advance for any comments thought on the matter
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I'm currently running some friends through HotDQ, and the motivations you came up with are perfectly sound. Leosin was attempting to tail the cult, but he got caught and put on display for days, so every member of the cult now knows what he looks like, so he's essentially asking the party to take on the task he couldn't. I also played up the fact that, in my group, at least, they were more clever than Leosin was... they allied themselves with the Kobolds in that first camp, because the Kobolds are generally mistreated and seen as cheap labor by the cultists, since they'll basically do anything for a group that has a Half-Dragon as their leader. They also helped to find some deserters within the camp itself and freed some of the people who were indoctrinated into the cult against their will.
The other thing is that they don't know where all this treasure is going or why, and that's ultimately more important. Leosin is compromised and Frume isn't a spy... assuming the party doesn't reveal themselves to the cultists too blatantly, they're the best option for tracking the treasure and still being able to recognize the cultists. I think including a few memorable cultists is a good exercise for a DM... it's good to customize a module a bit... take an existing character and change them to be more interesting, or introduce new characters that you think will be fun and interesting for the party. You could make some cultists who are intriguing because they're dangerous, or perhaps some that seem more sympathetic.
One thing I did was I played up the idea that the Fields of the Dead are unusually active with Undead activity, and explained it as Tiamat's influence weakening the wall between the 9 Hells and the Material Plane... this meant that Frume and the Order of the Gauntlet were particularly busy with Undead and couldn't just directly take on the cult themselves (and also gave me an excuse to have the party fight some cool undead enemies).
Anyway, I think you're on the right track. I had a bit of luck on my end with my players, since they were using their characters from the Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure we had just played for this adventure, and during that game the majority of my players joined the Harpers already, so they could simply be assigned to this job. That's also part of the reason for some homebrewing... I had to insert new challenges and such since they were starting this adventure at about the level they would have been by the end of it.
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Thanks for the reply
It's good to hear you think I'm on track with Leosin Erlanthar and Onthar Frumes reasoning, if I'm reasonably convinced as to why then I can usually sell the logic of it to the players... just felt unsure as I didn't find it explicitly stated in the adventure or maybe I'd missed it somehow, so big help dismissing my worries with your feedback.
Yeah I'm in the same boat as to player character level, my introductory LMoP campaign grew multiple hairy legs and ran into many a dark and dank side quest :D but I'm quite happy adjusting homebrewing things, its half the fun of DM'ing sometimes I find...
Thanks again for your reply TransmorpherDDS
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again