I’m going to be running a Theros campaign and I’m wanting to add a bunch of ship to ship engagements. Does anyone have any recommendation of a good resource or example of how to run the combat without bogging down the session?
I can’t speak specifically for rules and source material, but I view ship combat (especially with multiple ships) the same way I view any large-scale combat encounter.
Most of the encounter is preordained. Ships sinking, chaos around them, etc. I’m not going to roll everything to leave things to chance. The party may shift things slightly, but they’re not going to turn the tides (pun intended).
This depends on how influential and the exact aspects at play (are the players commanding a fleet or merely a part of the combatants on a ship?), but I generally don’t allow the players to drastically shape things. It can differ if they’re high level and they play a role that could alter the outcome, but to do they would have to be very epic level.
In general, I think some DMs (especially new ones) put way too much emphasis on the dice. The dice are a mechanic for uncertainty. Sometimes you want that, sometimes you don’t.
Another easy way to account for large scale combat is to roll in blocks. A single roll for which side wins an encounter, then another roll for the severity. One side might win the roll, but only have a slight win with high casualties on both sides. This makes things move along faster while still being dynamic.
A rule that I would always tell new DMs is that YOU are the DM. You can do whatever you want. It doesn’t mean you should cheat players, but it does mean that you don’t have to let the players get away with whatever they want. Be assertive and remember that a good adventure is based more in story than on dice rolls.
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I’m on mobile right now, so please bear with my limited ability to reply.
I agree with your point about the role of how effective players can be in large scale combat. I didn’t mean to imply that only epic level characters can affect the tide of battle, but that it’s very dependent on their role. You brought up great examples how even low level parties can entirely shift the changes in battles.
It all depends on how you, as the DM, want to allow the party to affect the outcome. In general, though, a single ship engaging in a single conflict is unlikely to completely shift the tides unless you are attacking a critical point. At low levels I think it can be both exhilarating and humbling for a party to be simply in the midst of a war where they have limited control and witness the chaos around them. It can also be exhilarating to see how they shift a losing battle to a winning scenario.
I think these rules apply whether in ships or on ground. But ships tend to be much more chaotic simply due to the sheer numbers of people required to operate the vessel. The isolation of being on a ship is also a factor. It’s you and the crew you are with, often with little to no additional support. This aspect is highly dependent on how you want the encounter to proceed, but it’s a very rich element to exploit in a multitude of ways.
As always, I think the discretion should be up to the DM and DMs should not be afraid to tailor the experience to what they feel best suits the story. The DM is, generally speaking, not a dice rolling computer for elements outside of the players. The DM is the storyteller and if that means fudging aspects to make the game fun and engaging, you should do it… even if this means operating in ways that some may find to be unconventional. But, as always, it depends on how you and the players want to play.
I understand that may not be a very satisfactory answer to the OP, but I try to provide answers that allow for a diversity in approach rather than a “do it like this” definitive answer. For me, a big part of what makes DMing a campaign so much fun is figuring out what works best for you and your party.
At the end of it all, there are ways to streamline play so you’re not rolling tons of dice, but maybe rolling tons of dice is better for what you want to convey. Coming from someone who used to play a lot Warhammer Fantasy Battle, rolling tons of dice is normal. But if you feel this is slowing things down and not helpful, then looking at alternatives to simplify things can be not only be beneficial, but also facilitate the way you want to tell your story.
Your anecdote about the halfling sorceress sounds wonderful and hilarious! I very much look forward to reading what you have written. There is so much all of us can learn from each other and that is a very big part of what helps all of us be better at crafting and communicating memorable experiences for players.
I try to always express that there is no single answer, there are merely suggestions that may or may not work. This is why I love and have always loved D&D.
To quote a very wise poet: You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
That's the way it goes, but don't forget, it goes the other way too.
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I’m going to be running a Theros campaign and I’m wanting to add a bunch of ship to ship engagements. Does anyone have any recommendation of a good resource or example of how to run the combat without bogging down the session?
There is an Unearthed Arcana related to this conveniently named Of Ships and the Sea, which would be a good place to start.
Thank you!
There’s also a chapter about ship combat at the end of ghosts of saltmarsh.
I can’t speak specifically for rules and source material, but I view ship combat (especially with multiple ships) the same way I view any large-scale combat encounter.
Most of the encounter is preordained. Ships sinking, chaos around them, etc. I’m not going to roll everything to leave things to chance. The party may shift things slightly, but they’re not going to turn the tides (pun intended).
This depends on how influential and the exact aspects at play (are the players commanding a fleet or merely a part of the combatants on a ship?), but I generally don’t allow the players to drastically shape things. It can differ if they’re high level and they play a role that could alter the outcome, but to do they would have to be very epic level.
In general, I think some DMs (especially new ones) put way too much emphasis on the dice. The dice are a mechanic for uncertainty. Sometimes you want that, sometimes you don’t.
Another easy way to account for large scale combat is to roll in blocks. A single roll for which side wins an encounter, then another roll for the severity. One side might win the roll, but only have a slight win with high casualties on both sides. This makes things move along faster while still being dynamic.
A rule that I would always tell new DMs is that YOU are the DM. You can do whatever you want. It doesn’t mean you should cheat players, but it does mean that you don’t have to let the players get away with whatever they want. Be assertive and remember that a good adventure is based more in story than on dice rolls.
That's the way it goes, but don't forget, it goes the other way too.
I’m on mobile right now, so please bear with my limited ability to reply.
I agree with your point about the role of how effective players can be in large scale combat. I didn’t mean to imply that only epic level characters can affect the tide of battle, but that it’s very dependent on their role. You brought up great examples how even low level parties can entirely shift the changes in battles.
It all depends on how you, as the DM, want to allow the party to affect the outcome. In general, though, a single ship engaging in a single conflict is unlikely to completely shift the tides unless you are attacking a critical point. At low levels I think it can be both exhilarating and humbling for a party to be simply in the midst of a war where they have limited control and witness the chaos around them. It can also be exhilarating to see how they shift a losing battle to a winning scenario.
I think these rules apply whether in ships or on ground. But ships tend to be much more chaotic simply due to the sheer numbers of people required to operate the vessel. The isolation of being on a ship is also a factor. It’s you and the crew you are with, often with little to no additional support. This aspect is highly dependent on how you want the encounter to proceed, but it’s a very rich element to exploit in a multitude of ways.
As always, I think the discretion should be up to the DM and DMs should not be afraid to tailor the experience to what they feel best suits the story. The DM is, generally speaking, not a dice rolling computer for elements outside of the players. The DM is the storyteller and if that means fudging aspects to make the game fun and engaging, you should do it… even if this means operating in ways that some may find to be unconventional. But, as always, it depends on how you and the players want to play.
I understand that may not be a very satisfactory answer to the OP, but I try to provide answers that allow for a diversity in approach rather than a “do it like this” definitive answer. For me, a big part of what makes DMing a campaign so much fun is figuring out what works best for you and your party.
At the end of it all, there are ways to streamline play so you’re not rolling tons of dice, but maybe rolling tons of dice is better for what you want to convey. Coming from someone who used to play a lot Warhammer Fantasy Battle, rolling tons of dice is normal. But if you feel this is slowing things down and not helpful, then looking at alternatives to simplify things can be not only be beneficial, but also facilitate the way you want to tell your story.
That's the way it goes, but don't forget, it goes the other way too.
Your anecdote about the halfling sorceress sounds wonderful and hilarious! I very much look forward to reading what you have written. There is so much all of us can learn from each other and that is a very big part of what helps all of us be better at crafting and communicating memorable experiences for players.
I try to always express that there is no single answer, there are merely suggestions that may or may not work. This is why I love and have always loved D&D.
To quote a very wise poet: You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life!
That's the way it goes, but don't forget, it goes the other way too.