I have a section some ways along my campaign in which the players will have to gain access to an ancient tunnel which leads to a labyrinth full of monsters and stuff. The concept is that this labyrinth is an entire floor of a colossal tower, and there are only 2 entrances left on the floor below. One is renowned as beyond deadly, papered with "missing person" flyers and generally regarded as somewhere you don't want to go. The other is on the inside of a sports arena, and was left to make the game more interesting when monsters would occasionally wander out and spice up the entertainment, drag off a few players, or get slain.
The party will have the option to become a sports team and enter this arena, which is the only legitimate way in. So, I need to think of a "sport" which will work with the dnd system!
I'm thinking:
blood sport, so it's full contact with weapons and armour, so they'll have their stuff with them.
possibly directly involving the labyrinth entrance, for extra danger. Maybe this would be the goal for a ball to be thrown into? Or retrieved from?
I'm kind of at a loss for how best to make a sport which is interesting and fun for the players. I am considering a set of feats to award them for training, such as being able to tackle, throw further, dodge grapple attempts, and that sort of thing. These would be most useful in the game but also have some use afterwards, which I think would be a cool thing to do!
Tackle - if you move at least 20ft. before grappling, you can perform a contested strength check with a target (large or smaller) and knock it prone if successful. Thrower - increase the range of thrown weapons by half (EG 30ft. becomes 45ft.) Slippery - You may use your reaction when grappled to escape the grapple, but can only use dexterity to do so.
Very Interesting... Ok the constraints of the scenario as I see it are players enter the field with their full kit so were not talking a track and field event... we're talking blood bowl, team gladiatorial fights, but what is to stop the players from entering the field and then rushing to the dungeon entrance/exit... I'm thinking the entrance needs to be blocked with an externally heavy portcullis that is opened at some specific point during the match... maybe when one team is defeated
A problem I see with any sporty variant of just a plain team gladiatorial fight is the players equipment and potential magic users... it just wouldn't be cricket to start bowling fireballs
Think you have to keep in mind that entering into the match as a team has to seem the better option to the players then just trying to to open the entrance themselves and gaining access that way
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
My primary concern is making it seem like the game is built around this entrance to some extent - it's not like they have a casual football game but, unfortunately, they could only do it next to the gateway to hell from which all manner of horrors spew forth!
I've had an idea, I think, and it actually makes it kind of like a puzzle as well...
So the arena is split into two halves, separated by a wall. When you score points, the labyrinth opens on the opposing teams side, letting monsters in, and yours closes.
The goal is for the players to try and get all the monsters released into the opponents side rather than their own, but then to throw the match, opening the now empty labyrinth and getting in that way.
A good option would be a fake labyrinth which they have to navigate at the same time as the opposing team, overcoming obstacles and with each one passed, they gain a point. when a team is in the lead, the gate opens to the opponents side, releasing monsters into their labyrinth.
I like that idea... ie points open doors to monsters and thus a pathway into the tower I'm just trying to keep in mind your players goal is to enter the tower while the "game" has some other goal which makes things a little more complicated as the players will be playing a different game then the one they are supposed to be playing as it were... really interesting scenario
Ok so one channeling gate which lets monster either go left or right... then subsequent chamber gates freeing new monsters... So the first point a team gets switches the channeling gate... if they get the next point then it opens a monster chamber...
as for a game with points with two sides... a type of volleyball?... necromancers skull volley?
Mmm... seems complicated and what's to stop the players just saying ok we just let the other team score opening gates for us we'll kill monsters... I don't know just having a straight off gladiatorial fight between teams the winner of which gets to face whatever the tower spews forth is a lot more straight forward...
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
You are talking about sending your players in, fully armed and armored, to kill their way out of the place. If you will forgive the pun, that doesn't sound very sporting.
In a sporting event, one of the biggest considerations is making sure that nobody dies. Blood Sports is kind of a contradiction in terms, and the ones that do exist are generally illegal and highly nasty. Putting animals into a pit and having them fight, for example. That was what the Gladiatorial Games were all about, and we kind of stopped having those anymore. Admittedly, it's a fantasy game, and Gladiatorial Games are very much in period, but if you want the players to enjoy this as a sport, you'll need to do some things.
Have lots of healing on hand for both sides. Have a referee who stops the game from time to time and imposes penalties for misbehavior. Assign different roles, maybe only one of them at a time can be attacking and the others have to do the defending. Give them a goal other than killing, like having them win if they can all hold hands while they pass through a doorway, or a points system so they can keep track of how much longer the game will go on. Do the old Thumbs Up or Down routine. Have a limited number of time outs, where they can take a breather. Only a few minutes, not a Short Rest kind of thing, just time to discuss strategy and wipe off the dirt.
It would be much fun if everyone started out Invisible, and the goal was to try to stay that way for as long as possible.
Giving the characters Feats is kind of cool, but I wouldn't recommend letting them keep them. You're apt to find game balance problems later on. There are already a lot of ways to knock people prone, and it's a powerful condition. I don't see anything wrong with "Thrower", and it might be something I'd let one of the players keep, but what do I give the others? Slippery makes Dexterity, which is already an over-used score, even more useful, and there is already a Feat called "Grappler" if someone wants to be better at wrestling.
I think it's a good idea basically, I like the notion of a sporting event and the image of a bunch of Goblin and Elven Cheerleaders is going to haunt me for a while, so good luck! I give it a thumbs up.
The main things which have come up and I think need to be addressed are:
1: What's to stop the players from just killing the opponents?
2: What's to stop the players from just rushing the gate to the labyrinth?
3: Where do you get models for goblin cheerleaders?
I think that the sensible approach to solving this is to make the game won easily if you focus on playing it rather than killing the enemy. So if the party of 4-5 is against a team which is rated as a deadly encounter, then they would spend more rounds killing them than it would take for their opponents to win the game. So if they decide to scrap the tactics and just kill everything, then they will almost definitely lose the game and have to come back for another go another time. I think it would be a good lesson in humiliation for them without needing a TPK - the crowd laughing at them, the commentator mocking them, and so on.
Now, I think that the solution for keeping them away from the labyrinth would be to have 3 rounds of the game, which would feature opposing teams built on a theme - goblins with dirty tactics, hobgoblins with strict approaches, bugbears relying on brute force, another party relying on their combined talents, and so forth. I'll randomize them and build them based on the player levels. Then the final round might be vs a team of ogres, and will be played in the central arena. The rules will be something like "each time a point is scored, the labyrinth opens and bonus points are made available for killing the monsters".
To keep the players from just rushing it when it first opens, I'll have several powerful monsters inside which they will want to clear out first, as rushing in is certain death. This should keep them invested in keeping the game going until the monsters are cleared out and the labyrinth is empty. The game will end when the labyrinth opens and no monsters come out, or if one team is slain.
To further reinforce the no-murdering ting, there will be a construct referee who is very powerful, who will forcibly separate the players if they perform foul attacks. Attacking a player who has the ball is allowed, or one in the opponents quarter of the arena.
The game will probably play a lot like rugby, but without the goal, just the touchline. So get the ball to the other end and touch down to win.
So, the main aspects to the game will be in:
1: throwing and catching 2: disarming an opponent (getting the ball) 3: Distracting the referee (dirty tactics) 4: Dodging incoming attacks
So I am thinking, as a reward for training up for the game, I would like to offer the players a feat each from a specific list. I will go through the existing feats and see what's relevant, and then perhaps add some of my own if I feel they are needed!
I have a section some ways along my campaign in which the players will have to gain access to an ancient tunnel which leads to a labyrinth full of monsters and stuff. The concept is that this labyrinth is an entire floor of a colossal tower, and there are only 2 entrances left on the floor below. One is renowned as beyond deadly, papered with "missing person" flyers and generally regarded as somewhere you don't want to go. The other is on the inside of a sports arena, and was left to make the game more interesting when monsters would occasionally wander out and spice up the entertainment, drag off a few players, or get slain.
The party will have the option to become a sports team and enter this arena, which is the only legitimate way in. So, I need to think of a "sport" which will work with the dnd system!
I'm thinking:
I'm kind of at a loss for how best to make a sport which is interesting and fun for the players. I am considering a set of feats to award them for training, such as being able to tackle, throw further, dodge grapple attempts, and that sort of thing. These would be most useful in the game but also have some use afterwards, which I think would be a cool thing to do!
Tackle - if you move at least 20ft. before grappling, you can perform a contested strength check with a target (large or smaller) and knock it prone if successful.
Thrower - increase the range of thrown weapons by half (EG 30ft. becomes 45ft.)
Slippery - You may use your reaction when grappled to escape the grapple, but can only use dexterity to do so.
That sort of thing.
Thoughts?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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Very Interesting... Ok the constraints of the scenario as I see it are players enter the field with their full kit so were not talking a track and field event... we're talking blood bowl, team gladiatorial fights, but what is to stop the players from entering the field and then rushing to the dungeon entrance/exit... I'm thinking the entrance needs to be blocked with an externally heavy portcullis that is opened at some specific point during the match... maybe when one team is defeated
A problem I see with any sporty variant of just a plain team gladiatorial fight is the players equipment and potential magic users... it just wouldn't be cricket to start bowling fireballs
Think you have to keep in mind that entering into the match as a team has to seem the better option to the players then just trying to to open the entrance themselves and gaining access that way
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
My primary concern is making it seem like the game is built around this entrance to some extent - it's not like they have a casual football game but, unfortunately, they could only do it next to the gateway to hell from which all manner of horrors spew forth!
I've had an idea, I think, and it actually makes it kind of like a puzzle as well...
So the arena is split into two halves, separated by a wall. When you score points, the labyrinth opens on the opposing teams side, letting monsters in, and yours closes.
The goal is for the players to try and get all the monsters released into the opponents side rather than their own, but then to throw the match, opening the now empty labyrinth and getting in that way.
A good option would be a fake labyrinth which they have to navigate at the same time as the opposing team, overcoming obstacles and with each one passed, they gain a point. when a team is in the lead, the gate opens to the opponents side, releasing monsters into their labyrinth.
That's just one thought, though...
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I like that idea... ie points open doors to monsters and thus a pathway into the tower
I'm just trying to keep in mind your players goal is to enter the tower while the "game" has some other goal which makes things a little more complicated as the players will be playing a different game then the one they are supposed to be playing as it were... really interesting scenario
Ok so one channeling gate which lets monster either go left or right... then subsequent chamber gates freeing new monsters...
So the first point a team gets switches the channeling gate... if they get the next point then it opens a monster chamber...
as for a game with points with two sides... a type of volleyball?... necromancers skull volley?
Mmm... seems complicated and what's to stop the players just saying ok we just let the other team score opening gates for us we'll kill monsters... I don't know just having a straight off gladiatorial fight between teams the winner of which gets to face whatever the tower spews forth is a lot more straight forward...
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
You are talking about sending your players in, fully armed and armored, to kill their way out of the place. If you will forgive the pun, that doesn't sound very sporting.
In a sporting event, one of the biggest considerations is making sure that nobody dies. Blood Sports is kind of a contradiction in terms, and the ones that do exist are generally illegal and highly nasty. Putting animals into a pit and having them fight, for example. That was what the Gladiatorial Games were all about, and we kind of stopped having those anymore. Admittedly, it's a fantasy game, and Gladiatorial Games are very much in period, but if you want the players to enjoy this as a sport, you'll need to do some things.
Have lots of healing on hand for both sides. Have a referee who stops the game from time to time and imposes penalties for misbehavior. Assign different roles, maybe only one of them at a time can be attacking and the others have to do the defending. Give them a goal other than killing, like having them win if they can all hold hands while they pass through a doorway, or a points system so they can keep track of how much longer the game will go on. Do the old Thumbs Up or Down routine. Have a limited number of time outs, where they can take a breather. Only a few minutes, not a Short Rest kind of thing, just time to discuss strategy and wipe off the dirt.
It would be much fun if everyone started out Invisible, and the goal was to try to stay that way for as long as possible.
Giving the characters Feats is kind of cool, but I wouldn't recommend letting them keep them. You're apt to find game balance problems later on. There are already a lot of ways to knock people prone, and it's a powerful condition. I don't see anything wrong with "Thrower", and it might be something I'd let one of the players keep, but what do I give the others? Slippery makes Dexterity, which is already an over-used score, even more useful, and there is already a Feat called "Grappler" if someone wants to be better at wrestling.
I think it's a good idea basically, I like the notion of a sporting event and the image of a bunch of Goblin and Elven Cheerleaders is going to haunt me for a while, so good luck! I give it a thumbs up.
<Insert clever signature here>
Take a look at siegeball by mage hand press. It might give you some ideas.
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
Thank you all for the feedback!
The main things which have come up and I think need to be addressed are:
1: What's to stop the players from just killing the opponents?
2: What's to stop the players from just rushing the gate to the labyrinth?
3: Where do you get models for goblin cheerleaders?
I think that the sensible approach to solving this is to make the game won easily if you focus on playing it rather than killing the enemy. So if the party of 4-5 is against a team which is rated as a deadly encounter, then they would spend more rounds killing them than it would take for their opponents to win the game. So if they decide to scrap the tactics and just kill everything, then they will almost definitely lose the game and have to come back for another go another time. I think it would be a good lesson in humiliation for them without needing a TPK - the crowd laughing at them, the commentator mocking them, and so on.
Now, I think that the solution for keeping them away from the labyrinth would be to have 3 rounds of the game, which would feature opposing teams built on a theme - goblins with dirty tactics, hobgoblins with strict approaches, bugbears relying on brute force, another party relying on their combined talents, and so forth. I'll randomize them and build them based on the player levels. Then the final round might be vs a team of ogres, and will be played in the central arena. The rules will be something like "each time a point is scored, the labyrinth opens and bonus points are made available for killing the monsters".
To keep the players from just rushing it when it first opens, I'll have several powerful monsters inside which they will want to clear out first, as rushing in is certain death. This should keep them invested in keeping the game going until the monsters are cleared out and the labyrinth is empty. The game will end when the labyrinth opens and no monsters come out, or if one team is slain.
To further reinforce the no-murdering ting, there will be a construct referee who is very powerful, who will forcibly separate the players if they perform foul attacks. Attacking a player who has the ball is allowed, or one in the opponents quarter of the arena.
The game will probably play a lot like rugby, but without the goal, just the touchline. So get the ball to the other end and touch down to win.
So, the main aspects to the game will be in:
1: throwing and catching
2: disarming an opponent (getting the ball)
3: Distracting the referee (dirty tactics)
4: Dodging incoming attacks
So I am thinking, as a reward for training up for the game, I would like to offer the players a feat each from a specific list. I will go through the existing feats and see what's relevant, and then perhaps add some of my own if I feel they are needed!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!