Am gearing up to run a campaign using Van Rickters guide to Ravenloft and a thought occurred to me after reading the section on how magic is affected. Specifically, the part where it says not even a wish spell can get you out of the Dread Realms and that banishment spells or powers do not work, but that spells that summon animals/monsters to your location do. So my thought goes along the line of evil cleric or wizard summons demon or devil to whatever Dread Realm the summoner is in but then cannot get rid of it. Even if you kill it, its spirit/essence cannot escape the Dread Realms and would eventually reform there. I can see where this would make for an interesting Dread Realm of its own but also would explain any antagonism towards spell casters a DM may want to foster. I do relies the bit where the book says attempts to communicate with outside forces may instead be directed to the Dark Lord of the individual Dread Realm can be used to stop this but the idea of Dread Realms that have fallen to a Demon or Devil that was let in could make for an interesting realm. Thoughts?
The only things that gets trapped in the Domains of Dread and cannot leave are the things that want leave the Dread Realms. That's the horror of it. There are considerably more powerful beings than the Dark Lords, which are called "gods." A Fiend, after the duration of the spell wore off, would probably be free to come and go as it pleased. An animal might be of concern to the Forces of Natures, but it is unlikely they would act unless you tried to fill a whole Dread Realm with them, and they probably would be quite pleased to see monsters die.
I looked through Van Richten's and as far as I can find, there isn't a Realm of Demons or Devils, nor those in between, which seems perfectly natural. Those all have perfectly good places to go. That would be the Outer Planes, like say, Hell for the Devils, the Abyss for the Demons, and Limbo, Pandemonium, Carceri, Hades, Gehenna, Acheron, or Mechanus for the rest. If nothing else, they all might end up in the Outlands, possible in Sigil, the City of Doors.
Specifically, the part where it says not even a wish spell can get you out of the Dread Realms and that banishment spells or powers do not work, but that spells that summon animals/monsters to your location do. So my thought goes along the line of evil cleric or wizard summons demon or devil to whatever Dread Realm the summoner is in but then cannot get rid of it. Even if you kill it, its spirit/essence cannot escape the Dread Realms and would eventually reform there.
The new 5e Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft doesn't specifically cover how the Demiplane of Dread effects (and is effected) by extraplanar creatures such as fiends and celestials. Previous editions spelled out in more specific detail what happens when a fiend (or celestial) was brought into Ravenloft, which involved said being potentially being trapped, gaining a phylactery, and literally affecting the reality around them. Similarly, older editions had various rules about how some things being summoned were creations of the Demiplane/Dark Powers (so the "devil" being summoned might have been more of a temporary creature constructed for the spell).
My suggestion would be to run your game in whichever manner works best for the story that you're trying to tell. If a spellcaster is summoning a fiend, you could have that fiend be drawn into the realm temporarily and then dismissed back to its home plane when the spell expires, which would limit how many fiends are trapped and running around. Or, you can use the concept that I mentioned above, which means that summoned fiends are merely pseudo-constructs that mimic the fiends in every way but not actually pulling them from one of the Lower Planes.
Or... You can really mess with casters by letting them deal with an angry devil or demon that ultimately cannot leave this Demiplane. In fact, that could make for an interesting roleplaying aspect as both the caster's and the fiend's spirits are constantly being trapped and reincarnated by the Dark Powers. Caster might not remember past lives, but the fiend does as it gains new bodies. Fiend makes it a point to hunt down and torture each incarnation of the caster as long as it remains trapped within the Demiplane.
I like the idea of caster and summoned at each others throats throughout an eternity of reincarnations. Could work something reflecting this into the Dark Gifts. Have to think about it and see if I have a player who would want to explore it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Am gearing up to run a campaign using Van Rickters guide to Ravenloft and a thought occurred to me after reading the section on how magic is affected. Specifically, the part where it says not even a wish spell can get you out of the Dread Realms and that banishment spells or powers do not work, but that spells that summon animals/monsters to your location do. So my thought goes along the line of evil cleric or wizard summons demon or devil to whatever Dread Realm the summoner is in but then cannot get rid of it. Even if you kill it, its spirit/essence cannot escape the Dread Realms and would eventually reform there. I can see where this would make for an interesting Dread Realm of its own but also would explain any antagonism towards spell casters a DM may want to foster. I do relies the bit where the book says attempts to communicate with outside forces may instead be directed to the Dark Lord of the individual Dread Realm can be used to stop this but the idea of Dread Realms that have fallen to a Demon or Devil that was let in could make for an interesting realm. Thoughts?
The only things that gets trapped in the Domains of Dread and cannot leave are the things that want leave the Dread Realms. That's the horror of it. There are considerably more powerful beings than the Dark Lords, which are called "gods." A Fiend, after the duration of the spell wore off, would probably be free to come and go as it pleased. An animal might be of concern to the Forces of Natures, but it is unlikely they would act unless you tried to fill a whole Dread Realm with them, and they probably would be quite pleased to see monsters die.
I looked through Van Richten's and as far as I can find, there isn't a Realm of Demons or Devils, nor those in between, which seems perfectly natural. Those all have perfectly good places to go. That would be the Outer Planes, like say, Hell for the Devils, the Abyss for the Demons, and Limbo, Pandemonium, Carceri, Hades, Gehenna, Acheron, or Mechanus for the rest. If nothing else, they all might end up in the Outlands, possible in Sigil, the City of Doors.
<Insert clever signature here>
The new 5e Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft doesn't specifically cover how the Demiplane of Dread effects (and is effected) by extraplanar creatures such as fiends and celestials. Previous editions spelled out in more specific detail what happens when a fiend (or celestial) was brought into Ravenloft, which involved said being potentially being trapped, gaining a phylactery, and literally affecting the reality around them. Similarly, older editions had various rules about how some things being summoned were creations of the Demiplane/Dark Powers (so the "devil" being summoned might have been more of a temporary creature constructed for the spell).
My suggestion would be to run your game in whichever manner works best for the story that you're trying to tell. If a spellcaster is summoning a fiend, you could have that fiend be drawn into the realm temporarily and then dismissed back to its home plane when the spell expires, which would limit how many fiends are trapped and running around. Or, you can use the concept that I mentioned above, which means that summoned fiends are merely pseudo-constructs that mimic the fiends in every way but not actually pulling them from one of the Lower Planes.
Or... You can really mess with casters by letting them deal with an angry devil or demon that ultimately cannot leave this Demiplane. In fact, that could make for an interesting roleplaying aspect as both the caster's and the fiend's spirits are constantly being trapped and reincarnated by the Dark Powers. Caster might not remember past lives, but the fiend does as it gains new bodies. Fiend makes it a point to hunt down and torture each incarnation of the caster as long as it remains trapped within the Demiplane.
I like the idea of caster and summoned at each others throats throughout an eternity of reincarnations. Could work something reflecting this into the Dark Gifts. Have to think about it and see if I have a player who would want to explore it.