For the final battle of a 5 month campaign I have a modified dragon for my 6th level party of 5 to kill. Basically it is an Adult Red Dragon's abilities with mostly Young Red Dragon stats, and a Heated Body trait similar to the Remorhaz's (but weaker) thrown in for spice. The fight will be in its lair, and I'm planning to use the Lair Actions half-way through the battle depending on how the party is surviving.
Whenever I've designed a challenge with Deadly level xp, the party has blown through it like nothing & nobody has really come close to death, and yet I have a strong suspicion that if a character(s) dies in this last battle, that they could handle that. There's a Paladin, a Rogue, a Druid, a Wizard & a Sorcerer.
Ashtoroth, Lord of the Fire Strata
AC 18 HP 256 Spd 40, Climb 40, Fly 80 ft Saving Throws: DEX +4, CON +9, WIS +4, CHA+8 Skills: Perc +8, Stlth +4, Passive Perc 18 Damage Immunities: fire
Heated Body Successful melee attacks, or any other reason to touch Ashtoroth, causes2d6 fire dmg. (*This ability is lost if his Fire Fang is broken or pulled)
---- Legendary Resistance (3/Day) ----
ACTIONS
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes 3 attacks, one bite & two with its claws.
Bite. +10 to hit, reach 10ft, 2d10+6 piercing dmg, plus 2d6 fire dmg
Claw. +10 to hit, reach 5ft, 2d6+6 slashing dmg
Tail. +10 to hit, reach 15ft, 2d8+6 bludgeoning dmg
Frightful Presence: Whole party gets frightened for 1 minute if they don't make a DC 19 Wis save. Characters can regain their courage at the end of each turn with the same sav throw, after which they won't loose it again.
Fire Breath (Recharge 5-6): 80ft cone of 15d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC17 Dex save (*This ability is lost if his Fire Fang is broken or pulled)
---- LEGENDARY ACTIONS ----
3 per round, limit of one per other character's turns.
Detect: Perc. Check
Tail Attack. +10 to hit, reach 15ft, 2d8+6 bludgeoning dmg
Wing Attack (Costs 2 Actions). The dragon beats its wings. Each character within 10ft takes 2d6+6 bludgeoning dmg & is knocked prone unless they make a DC22 Dex save. Ashtoroth can then make a 40ft fly move.
---- LAIR ACTIONS ----(Occurs at half health unless the party is looking too frail)
One action at the end of the round.
Magma Eruption. 5ft radius geyser does 6d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC15 Dex save.
Tremor. 60ft radius knocks characters prone unless they make a DC15 Dex save.
Volcanic Gases. 20ft radius cloud sphere that lightly obscures sight & incapacitates characters unless they make a DC13 Con save
*FIRE FANG* IF a character looks for a weakness & succeeds on a DC17 Perc check, they notice that Ashtoroth's right fang is older looking than his left. If they succeed in a DC18 Str check they pull the tooth. If they do a single hit of 25 bludgeoning dmg to the tooth it breaks. In either case, Ashtoroth looses the Heated Body ability & his Fire Breath.
I would say yes. The fire breath would probably kill most of your players dead in one go. But maybe if you dial that back a bit and maybe give them some gentle guidance on that they should look for a weakness. Or make an NPC to tell them about the weakness.
I will say sometimes players can surprise you. One campaign I was running, my PCs accidentally went into a Dragon's Lair (I was saving it for later) and they were just barely level 3 and crushed the dragon like it was nothing without any help from me.
I agree with the posters above. This dragon will definitely kill your party, barring unusual circumstances, especially with that very large pool of hit points.
I'm interested to know if you have any other details on why your party is generally blowing through deadly encounters. Are they able to use more resources than normal on each encounter because they are having fewer encounters per day?
If this boss fight is going to be the only encounter for the day, and the party will be fully rested, then it's definitely acceptable to pit the PCs against a more-than-deadly encounter. A standard Young Red Dragon could be a proper challenge for a 6th-level party (at CR 10), but this really depends on how intelligently the dragon is played in combat and what preparations the party has made.
jreggers, each party member has one magic item that helps them a little bit, and I as a new DM likely don't run the monsters as well as I could.
I re-tweaked the stats and now he's a Young Red Dragon with a 1d8 heated body and a removable tooth of firery power.
Ashtoroth, Lord of the Fire Strata
Large dragon --- Challenge: 11? AC 18 HP 196 Spd 40, Climb 40, Fly 80 ft STR +6 (23) DEX +0 (10) CON +5 (21) INT +2 (14) WIS +0 (11) CHA +4 (19)Saving Throws: DEX +4, CON +9, WIS +4, CHA+8 Skills: Perception +8, Stealth +4 Damage Immunities: fire Senses: Blindsight 30ft, Darkvision 120 ft, Passive Perc 18
*Heated Body. Successful melee attacks, or any other reason to touch Ashtoroth, causes1d8 fire dmg
---- Legendary Resistance (1/Day) ----
If Ashtoroth fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. Ashoroth makes 3 attacks, one bite & two with its claws.
Bite. +10 to hit, reach 10ft, 2d10+6 piercing plus2d6 fire dmg
Claw. +10 to hit, reach 5ft, 2d6+6 slashing dmg
*Fire Breath (Recharge 5-6): 30ft cone of 16d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC17 Dex save
---- LEGENDARY ACTIONS ----
1 per round, may only occur at the end of another creature’s turn.
Detect: Percecption check
Claw. +10 to hit, reach 5ft, 2d6+6 slashing dmg
---- LAIR ACTIONS ---- (Occurs at half health unless the party is looking too frail)
Choose one lair action at the end of each round.
Magma Eruption. On a chosen spot a 5ft radius, 20ft high geyser appears, doing 6d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC15 Dexsave.
Tremor. Ashtoroth emits a 60ft radius tremor knocking characters prone unless they make a DC15 Dexsave.
Volcanic Gases. On a chosen spot a 20ft radius cloud sphere appears, lightly obscuring sight. Any creature starting a turn in the cloud is poisoned for their turn unless they make a DC15 Consave
*FIRE FANG* If a character looks for a weakness & succeeds on a DC15 Perc check, they notice that Ashtoroth's right fang is older looking than his left. If they succeed in a DC18 Str check they pull the tooth. If they do enough damage in a single hit to the tooth, it breaks off: 10 bludgeoning, force, acid, necrotic, radiant or thunder dmg 15 slashing, cold, lightning or poison dmg 25 piercing or psychic dmg
Ashtoroth loses the Heated Body ability & his Fire Breath when he loses his fang. However, any or all of the Lair Actions begin occurring randomly as the Fire Strata becomes unruly.
You can always set an HP threshold that when reached the Dragon attempts to then run away from the fight, so if they might be killed if they have to take him all the way to 0 hp this might provide a way for them to potentially survive while keeping a sense of accomplishment.
How did these altered stats (2nd version) work out for you? Did the party die? I'm looking at sending my party of 5 level 6 players into something similar. I regularly have to triple HP of "deadly" monsters to make it a challenge so I'm not super afraid, but would love to hear how it went.
So, a 6th level party of 5 should find this to be a hard encounter with the base young dragon stat block, according to the math and calculator here at DDB. That being said, the second iteration is much more survivable, IMO as far as limiting legendary actions and the like. I would highly suggest that you set an hp threshold for the dragon to back off and bail, as has already been suggested by csheets416. A dragon should be intelligent enough to know that their survival is paramount. Hoard is second, maybe a razor thin third. If it looks like the party is gonna mop the floor with your dragon, I might suggest that it either starts doing more damage (1 additional damage dice to simulate a survival frenzy) or attempting to flee when the opportunity provides. You could also include some 1hp minion types to distract the players and spread things out a little. If it looks like the party is in dire straights, say after the first PC drops, dial back that hp pool and have it start acting like it's becoming winded (disadvantage on attacks or some such). You could also bring in the clowns (1hp minion types) to again distract the party so the BBEG can flee because it's suddenly very hurt. I do commend you on the inclusion of a weakness that can be exploited and also agree that maybe an NPC or other lore dump provide a hint to that tooth.
Lastly, if it's the culminating event of a 5 month campaign, why not pull out all the stops. Chekov's Dragon if you will. If you've played this BBEG up to be some sort of total brute or an insurmountable challenge, then for them to find it easy would be a serious letdown. Completely anticlimactic to have built up an expectation of supreme power to have it turn out to be a fuzzy bunny with big ears, as silk bow and a book of matches. Also, PC deaths can be an epic part of the ending to a campaign. Don't shy away from them and don't fail to make them worth the player's effort. They can be the most memorable and dramatic moments in the campaign.
No matter how you play it, good luck and have fun!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Looks like death to me, but your group dynamic is quite different to the one I am in, where we faced an adult black at level 8. 4 of us, Druid, monk, Fighter and Barbarian. Dragon's movement was killer to us, as we couldn't keep in melee range. Flight and extensive movement crippled our melee heavy team, so it was a near TPK. Your group has a LOT more ranged options which should help negate the movement issues.
Give it a shot, and I really like the "dragon flees as low HP" out that was offered, as a way to prevent the TPK if required. Please make sure to come back and let us all know how it went!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
The hit points are fine for the end boss of a campaign, but the dragon's damage output is way over the top. My players also always obliterate every Deadly encounter I throw at them, and I usually need every major enemy to have a bonus 100 hit points minimum to allow them to survive until turn 3 of combat.
16d6 fire damage from its breath weapon is an average of 56 damage and a max of 96. What sort of hp do the wizard and sorcerer have? Even if they each have a Constitution of 20, the maximum that they can have is 66 hit points. That means that on a roll a bit above average and a failed saving throw, they're just going to be one-shotted.
Reduce the damage down to more manageable levels. You want a boss fight to last something like 7-8 turns. Up his hit points to 300ish, and wind his damage right down.
The Druid died instantly when Ashtoroth used his breath weapon for the 2nd or 3rd time. The party got to mourn the loss until they slew the dragon, escaped the collapsing dungeon, & then resurrected her. It was great!
Ashtoroth has since become a powerful dracolich & the lord of the undead underworld.
Sounds like your players will not soon forget the events of that encounter. Well done!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
The Druid died instantly when Ashtoroth used his breath weapon for the 2nd or 3rd time. The party got to mourn the loss until they slew the dragon, escaped the collapsing dungeon, & then resurrected her. It was great!
Ashtoroth has since become a powerful dracolich & the lord of the undead underworld.
How did they survive the damage output long enough to kill it?
Sanvael, They had a few magic armour & weapons, including a vial of Oil of Etherealness, & an Arrow of Dragon Slaying. They also had assistance creating a cave-in that did 20d6 bludgeoning damage to him at the very start of the battle.
You can hear more about it my video recap, which I did over 3 years ago. If you're interested, I'd recommend listening to it at 1.25 or 1.5 speed. https://youtu.be/fz_IMNc67vY?t=28
The party: Spifi the gnomish druid Keta the human paladin The Imp, a goblin ranger Arras, an elven wizard Nine, a wild-magic sorcerer
My homebrew setting: Interior of the planet of Layothe, created & ruled by Glymleon the golden dragon. He was also the quest-giver. Ashtoroth the red ruled over the fire strata. Several other dragons rule other areas.
For the final battle of a 5 month campaign I have a modified dragon for my 6th level party of 5 to kill. Basically it is an Adult Red Dragon's abilities with mostly Young Red Dragon stats, and a Heated Body trait similar to the Remorhaz's (but weaker) thrown in for spice. The fight will be in its lair, and I'm planning to use the Lair Actions half-way through the battle depending on how the party is surviving.
Whenever I've designed a challenge with Deadly level xp, the party has blown through it like nothing & nobody has really come close to death, and yet I have a strong suspicion that if a character(s) dies in this last battle, that they could handle that. There's a Paladin, a Rogue, a Druid, a Wizard & a Sorcerer.
Ashtoroth, Lord of the Fire Strata
Heated Body
Successful melee attacks, or any other reason to touch Ashtoroth, causes 2d6 fire dmg. (*This ability is lost if his Fire Fang is broken or pulled)
---- Legendary Resistance (3/Day) ----
ACTIONS
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes 3 attacks, one bite & two with its claws.
Bite. +10 to hit, reach 10ft, 2d10+6 piercing dmg, plus 2d6 fire dmg
Claw. +10 to hit, reach 5ft, 2d6+6 slashing dmg
Tail. +10 to hit, reach 15ft, 2d8+6 bludgeoning dmg
Frightful Presence: Whole party gets frightened for 1 minute if they don't make a DC 19 Wis save. Characters can regain their courage at the end of each turn with the same sav throw, after which they won't loose it again.
Fire Breath (Recharge 5-6): 80ft cone of 15d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC17 Dex save (*This ability is lost if his Fire Fang is broken or pulled)
---- LEGENDARY ACTIONS ----
3 per round, limit of one per other character's turns.
Detect: Perc. Check
Tail Attack. +10 to hit, reach 15ft, 2d8+6 bludgeoning dmg
Wing Attack (Costs 2 Actions). The dragon beats its wings. Each character within 10ft takes 2d6+6 bludgeoning dmg & is knocked prone unless they make a DC22 Dex save. Ashtoroth can then make a 40ft fly move.
---- LAIR ACTIONS ---- (Occurs at half health unless the party is looking too frail)
One action at the end of the round.
Magma Eruption. 5ft radius geyser does 6d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC15 Dex save.
Tremor. 60ft radius knocks characters prone unless they make a DC15 Dex save.
Volcanic Gases. 20ft radius cloud sphere that lightly obscures sight & incapacitates characters unless they make a DC13 Con save
*FIRE FANG*
IF a character looks for a weakness & succeeds on a DC17 Perc check, they notice that Ashtoroth's right fang is older looking than his left. If they succeed in a DC18 Str check they pull the tooth. If they do a single hit of 25 bludgeoning dmg to the tooth it breaks. In either case, Ashtoroth looses the Heated Body ability & his Fire Breath.
Not counting the lair actions, Ashtorath is sitting at a solid offensive CR 16 and defensive CR 20, for a total CR 18. Yeah, he'll probably kill them.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
I would say yes. The fire breath would probably kill most of your players dead in one go. But maybe if you dial that back a bit and maybe give them some gentle guidance on that they should look for a weakness. Or make an NPC to tell them about the weakness.
I will say sometimes players can surprise you. One campaign I was running, my PCs accidentally went into a Dragon's Lair (I was saving it for later) and they were just barely level 3 and crushed the dragon like it was nothing without any help from me.
The breath weapon alone averages just over 50 damage...
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I agree with the posters above. This dragon will definitely kill your party, barring unusual circumstances, especially with that very large pool of hit points.
I'm interested to know if you have any other details on why your party is generally blowing through deadly encounters. Are they able to use more resources than normal on each encounter because they are having fewer encounters per day?
If this boss fight is going to be the only encounter for the day, and the party will be fully rested, then it's definitely acceptable to pit the PCs against a more-than-deadly encounter. A standard Young Red Dragon could be a proper challenge for a 6th-level party (at CR 10), but this really depends on how intelligently the dragon is played in combat and what preparations the party has made.
Thanks for the advise everybody.
jreggers, each party member has one magic item that helps them a little bit, and I as a new DM likely don't run the monsters as well as I could.
I re-tweaked the stats and now he's a Young Red Dragon with a 1d8 heated body and a removable tooth of firery power.
Ashtoroth, Lord of the Fire Strata
*Heated Body. Successful melee attacks, or any other reason to touch Ashtoroth, causes 1d8 fire dmg
---- Legendary Resistance (1/Day) ----
If Ashtoroth fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. Ashoroth makes 3 attacks, one bite & two with its claws.
Bite. +10 to hit, reach 10ft, 2d10+6 piercing plus 2d6 fire dmg
Claw. +10 to hit, reach 5ft, 2d6+6 slashing dmg
*Fire Breath (Recharge 5-6): 30ft cone of 16d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC17 Dex save
---- LEGENDARY ACTIONS ----
1 per round, may only occur at the end of another creature’s turn.
Detect: Percecption check
Claw. +10 to hit, reach 5ft, 2d6+6 slashing dmg
---- LAIR ACTIONS ---- (Occurs at half health unless the party is looking too frail)
Choose one lair action at the end of each round.
Magma Eruption. On a chosen spot a 5ft radius, 20ft high geyser appears, doing 6d6 fire dmg, halved on a DC15 Dex save.
Tremor. Ashtoroth emits a 60ft radius tremor knocking characters prone unless they make a DC15 Dex save.
Volcanic Gases. On a chosen spot a 20ft radius cloud sphere appears, lightly obscuring sight. Any creature starting a turn in the cloud is poisoned for their turn unless they make a DC15 Con save
You can always set an HP threshold that when reached the Dragon attempts to then run away from the fight, so if they might be killed if they have to take him all the way to 0 hp this might provide a way for them to potentially survive while keeping a sense of accomplishment.
How did these altered stats (2nd version) work out for you? Did the party die? I'm looking at sending my party of 5 level 6 players into something similar. I regularly have to triple HP of "deadly" monsters to make it a challenge so I'm not super afraid, but would love to hear how it went.
So, a 6th level party of 5 should find this to be a hard encounter with the base young dragon stat block, according to the math and calculator here at DDB. That being said, the second iteration is much more survivable, IMO as far as limiting legendary actions and the like. I would highly suggest that you set an hp threshold for the dragon to back off and bail, as has already been suggested by csheets416. A dragon should be intelligent enough to know that their survival is paramount. Hoard is second, maybe a razor thin third. If it looks like the party is gonna mop the floor with your dragon, I might suggest that it either starts doing more damage (1 additional damage dice to simulate a survival frenzy) or attempting to flee when the opportunity provides. You could also include some 1hp minion types to distract the players and spread things out a little. If it looks like the party is in dire straights, say after the first PC drops, dial back that hp pool and have it start acting like it's becoming winded (disadvantage on attacks or some such). You could also bring in the clowns (1hp minion types) to again distract the party so the BBEG can flee because it's suddenly very hurt. I do commend you on the inclusion of a weakness that can be exploited and also agree that maybe an NPC or other lore dump provide a hint to that tooth.
Lastly, if it's the culminating event of a 5 month campaign, why not pull out all the stops. Chekov's Dragon if you will. If you've played this BBEG up to be some sort of total brute or an insurmountable challenge, then for them to find it easy would be a serious letdown. Completely anticlimactic to have built up an expectation of supreme power to have it turn out to be a fuzzy bunny with big ears, as silk bow and a book of matches. Also, PC deaths can be an epic part of the ending to a campaign. Don't shy away from them and don't fail to make them worth the player's effort. They can be the most memorable and dramatic moments in the campaign.
No matter how you play it, good luck and have fun!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Looks like death to me, but your group dynamic is quite different to the one I am in, where we faced an adult black at level 8. 4 of us, Druid, monk, Fighter and Barbarian. Dragon's movement was killer to us, as we couldn't keep in melee range. Flight and extensive movement crippled our melee heavy team, so it was a near TPK. Your group has a LOT more ranged options which should help negate the movement issues.
Give it a shot, and I really like the "dragon flees as low HP" out that was offered, as a way to prevent the TPK if required. Please make sure to come back and let us all know how it went!
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
The hit points are fine for the end boss of a campaign, but the dragon's damage output is way over the top. My players also always obliterate every Deadly encounter I throw at them, and I usually need every major enemy to have a bonus 100 hit points minimum to allow them to survive until turn 3 of combat.
16d6 fire damage from its breath weapon is an average of 56 damage and a max of 96. What sort of hp do the wizard and sorcerer have? Even if they each have a Constitution of 20, the maximum that they can have is 66 hit points. That means that on a roll a bit above average and a failed saving throw, they're just going to be one-shotted.
Reduce the damage down to more manageable levels. You want a boss fight to last something like 7-8 turns. Up his hit points to 300ish, and wind his damage right down.
The Druid died instantly when Ashtoroth used his breath weapon for the 2nd or 3rd time. The party got to mourn the loss until they slew the dragon, escaped the collapsing dungeon, & then resurrected her. It was great!
Ashtoroth has since become a powerful dracolich & the lord of the undead underworld.
Sounds like your players will not soon forget the events of that encounter. Well done!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
How did they survive the damage output long enough to kill it?
Sanvael,
They had a few magic armour & weapons, including a vial of Oil of Etherealness, & an Arrow of Dragon Slaying. They also had assistance creating a cave-in that did 20d6 bludgeoning damage to him at the very start of the battle.
You can hear more about it my video recap, which I did over 3 years ago. If you're interested, I'd recommend listening to it at 1.25 or 1.5 speed.
https://youtu.be/fz_IMNc67vY?t=28
The party:
Spifi the gnomish druid
Keta the human paladin
The Imp, a goblin ranger
Arras, an elven wizard
Nine, a wild-magic sorcerer
My homebrew setting:
Interior of the planet of Layothe, created & ruled by Glymleon the golden dragon. He was also the quest-giver. Ashtoroth the red ruled over the fire strata. Several other dragons rule other areas.
Every campaign diary video that I made for this campaign:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL24gs9yCHr_wP9jGd3RnHCKaq_VrKuG3N
Thanks Kaavel, it's a highlight-memory of my days here :)
If you do want to hear more about it, you can see youtube the links in my response above.