A druid player who was in their wild shape, got hit by a polymorph spell. A couple turns later, the polymorph'd creature falls to zero HP. Does the Druid return as the creature they had wild shaped into before the polymorph? Or do both effect end at the same time? What about if the polymorph spell ends before the character goes to zero HP?
Overlapping clocks continue to tick. If the Druid would otherwise still be Wildshaped, then let them revert back as Wildshaped, otherwise both effects end simultaneously.
Basically bonus HP. However, it depends on whether the player was trying to cheese this combo or not. I'm erring on the side of the player, but if they try to take liberties, then I'd re-rule it to be more reasonable.
Completely agree with all of Memnosyne's explanations.
I'll only mention the very rare occurrence of the wild shaped, and then subsequently polymorphed, creature being the target of Power Word Kill. This used to work in a similar way for Disintegrate.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
As rife as this is for abuse, I also have to agree Memnosyne... although the effects of Polymorph and Wildshape are extremely similar, they are still two distinct effects. There may be some leeway in that the Polymorph spell says outright that it can't be cast on a "Shapechanger", but it would have to be a very loose interpretation of the rules to say that applies to a Druid.
That does have me wondering, though... does the Polymorph restriction on Shapechangers at all make it unable to transform Changelings?
In the spirit of applying logic over RAW (which is gaming suicide), I would say that since Polymorph reads: The spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points, I would rule that the Wildshaped druid fulfils a shapechanger criteria and therefore Polymorph has no effect.
follow up question... When polymorphing an already polymorphed unit (you decided you wanted something less threatening) does the first polymorph fall off or do the effects layer on top of each other? IE you/they pop the second polymorph, by them taking damage, but are still stuck in the first polymorphed form? If we assume that the effects can't stack, can you use Polymorph to dispell True Polymorph? Or would the spell fail, because it's trying to replace the effects of a stronger version? If it fails, could you argue that a Polymorph spell cast at level 5 can not be replaced by a Polymorph spell cast at level 4?
So... would the player who cast the first polymorph have to drop the spell on their turn, before a different player could cast their polymorph spell (and have it actually do anything)?
Getting this granular on a forum isn't really much use when the DM is going to need to make rulings like this on the fly. Make a decision according to what the table will enjoy the most.
If players are working together to achieve something reasonable, then give them latitude to do so.
If players are trying to achieve something cheesy, then bury it behind a difficult die roll, or reject it outright.
Game Rules are guidelines for consistent play. Wherever those rules run afoul of enjoyable gameplay, they can be chucked out the window.
So... would the player who cast the first polymorph have to drop the spell on their turn, before a different player could cast their polymorph spell (and have it actually do anything)?
As I recall, a PC can voluntarily drop Concentration on a spell at any time... it's not something that has to be done on their turn or something that takes a reaction or anything.
follow up question... When polymorphing an already polymorphed unit (you decided you wanted something less threatening) does the first polymorph fall off or do the effects layer on top of each other? IE you/they pop the second polymorph, by them taking damage, but are still stuck in the first polymorphed form? If we assume that the effects can't stack, can you use Polymorph to dispell True Polymorph? Or would the spell fail, because it's trying to replace the effects of a stronger version? If it fails, could you argue that a Polymorph spell cast at level 5 can not be replaced by a Polymorph spell cast at level 4?
I only just realised who is posting this, and it is the 5th different thread in 2 days dealing with a question about a PC who is a mastiff, who uses a (homebrew item, invented by the player) Amulet of True Polymorph to turn into a half-elf at level 1, who then might want to polymorph itself. And this is a PC that does not exist in any running campaign, and who the OP has been told by at least 30 DM's that they wouldn't allow the character in a campaign.
Zhule, I feel like this is wasting people's time, because the question is disingenuous. People are answering as though the question is "In a reasonable combat situation, what happens when a wildshaped druid gets polymorphed," but what you are actually interested in is whether your (non-existant in any campaign) dog-half-elf-druid character design could Polymorph itself once it reaches level 7.
Memnosyne has the right of it, and as I've told you in at least 2 other threads: unless you can find a DM who is OK with this character, none of this theory crafting matters, and that DM will make their own personal ruling. Nothing any other DM is going to say is going to make even the slightest difference, and trying to work out what will work/happen in potential combat situations for your character is not going to help.
A druid player who was in their wild shape, got hit by a polymorph spell. A couple turns later, the polymorph'd creature falls to zero HP. Does the Druid return as the creature they had wild shaped into before the polymorph? Or do both effect end at the same time? What about if the polymorph spell ends before the character goes to zero HP?
For the sake of simplicity:
Overlapping clocks continue to tick. If the Druid would otherwise still be Wildshaped, then let them revert back as Wildshaped, otherwise both effects end simultaneously.
So does wild shape's HP pool run parallel to the polymorph? or is it an extra level of bonus HP, before you take "real" damage on your druid?
Basically bonus HP. However, it depends on whether the player was trying to cheese this combo or not. I'm erring on the side of the player, but if they try to take liberties, then I'd re-rule it to be more reasonable.
Completely agree with all of Memnosyne's explanations.
I'll only mention the very rare occurrence of the wild shaped, and then subsequently polymorphed, creature being the target of Power Word Kill. This used to work in a similar way for Disintegrate.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
As rife as this is for abuse, I also have to agree Memnosyne... although the effects of Polymorph and Wildshape are extremely similar, they are still two distinct effects. There may be some leeway in that the Polymorph spell says outright that it can't be cast on a "Shapechanger", but it would have to be a very loose interpretation of the rules to say that applies to a Druid.
That does have me wondering, though... does the Polymorph restriction on Shapechangers at all make it unable to transform Changelings?
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
In the spirit of applying logic over RAW (which is gaming suicide), I would say that since Polymorph reads: The spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points, I would rule that the Wildshaped druid fulfils a shapechanger criteria and therefore Polymorph has no effect.
follow up question... When polymorphing an already polymorphed unit (you decided you wanted something less threatening) does the first polymorph fall off or do the effects layer on top of each other? IE you/they pop the second polymorph, by them taking damage, but are still stuck in the first polymorphed form? If we assume that the effects can't stack, can you use Polymorph to dispell True Polymorph? Or would the spell fail, because it's trying to replace the effects of a stronger version? If it fails, could you argue that a Polymorph spell cast at level 5 can not be replaced by a Polymorph spell cast at level 4?
You can only apply the same effect once. The stronger effect takes precedent.
In-game, I might ask for a spellcasting check, as when Dispel Magic is used.
So... would the player who cast the first polymorph have to drop the spell on their turn, before a different player could cast their polymorph spell (and have it actually do anything)?
Getting this granular on a forum isn't really much use when the DM is going to need to make rulings like this on the fly. Make a decision according to what the table will enjoy the most.
If players are working together to achieve something reasonable, then give them latitude to do so.
If players are trying to achieve something cheesy, then bury it behind a difficult die roll, or reject it outright.
Game Rules are guidelines for consistent play. Wherever those rules run afoul of enjoyable gameplay, they can be chucked out the window.
As I recall, a PC can voluntarily drop Concentration on a spell at any time... it's not something that has to be done on their turn or something that takes a reaction or anything.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I only just realised who is posting this, and it is the 5th different thread in 2 days dealing with a question about a PC who is a mastiff, who uses a (homebrew item, invented by the player) Amulet of True Polymorph to turn into a half-elf at level 1, who then might want to polymorph itself. And this is a PC that does not exist in any running campaign, and who the OP has been told by at least 30 DM's that they wouldn't allow the character in a campaign.
Zhule, I feel like this is wasting people's time, because the question is disingenuous. People are answering as though the question is "In a reasonable combat situation, what happens when a wildshaped druid gets polymorphed," but what you are actually interested in is whether your (non-existant in any campaign) dog-half-elf-druid character design could Polymorph itself once it reaches level 7.
Memnosyne has the right of it, and as I've told you in at least 2 other threads: unless you can find a DM who is OK with this character, none of this theory crafting matters, and that DM will make their own personal ruling. Nothing any other DM is going to say is going to make even the slightest difference, and trying to work out what will work/happen in potential combat situations for your character is not going to help.