When the players don't remember something important that they saw or interacted with that the characters could reasonably recall, I tend to ask for a skill check. The problem is, I'm not sure which. First, would it be intelligence or wisdom? I'm leaning towards intelligence, but it could also be a sort of reverse perception check. If it is intelligence, which would it be, arcana, history, investigation, nature, or religion?
Should I just create a new skill? Intelligence Recollection?
My thought process is... if it's something they would be able to learn if they just spent a few minutes flipping through their notes, just tell it to them. All you're doing by telling them outright is saving time.
If it's something that maybe seemed like it wasn't worth writing down at the time (like, if they meet an NPC again who seemed like they were just background flavor earlier but was secretly someone tailing them), I let them do a History check to see if the recognize them. History is absolutely not the "correct" check for that... logically it would make sense just to give them a straight INT check, but honestly I usually want my players to succeed at these kind of things so I throw them a bone and give the possibility for them to gain the benefits of proficiency.
"When the players don't remember something important that they saw or interacted with that the characters could reasonably recall, I tend to ask for a skill check. The problem is, I'm not sure which. First, would it be intelligence or wisdom? I'm leaning towards intelligence, but it could also be a sort of reverse perception check. If it is intelligence, which would it be, arcana, history, investigation, nature, or religion? Should I just create a new skill? Intelligence Recollection?"
I don't really see any reason why a History check wouldn't work over a straight Int roll. It is, after all, a part of their personal history. If it's something that's less than reasonable for them to remember and there are any clues around, Investigation ought to be able to turn it up and you can set the DC for that depending on what the clues are and how many of them they find. Depending on where they might have learned it, any of the checks might work. A Wizard high enough level to have chosen a School could use Arcana, A Druid, Ranger, or Barbarian might have learned it from Natures, and any member of the clergy, from an Acolyte on up could use Religion.
It if there is nothing else, and the players just want to pull an answer of of thin air, let them us a passive Insight check at whatever DC you want. For example, if they run into an NPC they have never met before and want to try and call them by name, if they are wearing some kind of clue, like a name tag, or the symbol of a guild that's famous enough for people who are big parts of the guild to have their name bandied about, let them do the check, that's Investigation, and if they just want to make up a name and hope they are right? That's Nearly Impossible, which is a passive Insight check at a DC of 30. It's a magical world, so there are various ways this might actually be possible. They could use a point of Inspiration to roll twice and take the best of the two, someone else could use the Help action, but that doesn't stack with Advantage, and if there is a Bard around, they can use Bardic Inspiration to add a die that gets bigger depending on the level of the Bard to the check.
So in D&D, it's actually possible to just flat out guess someone's name, and get it right. Obviously, anything they already have written down they would know without any need for a check.
I don't really see any reason why a History check wouldn't work over a straight Int roll. It is, after all, a part of their personal history.
You mean besides the obvious that History doesn't cover "personal history" and that Intelligence is the stat that represents information recall and memory, you mean? Just because I know a lot about WW2 doesn't mean I can remember where I put my keys...
Not every skill is going to cover ever situation perfectly. Yes Int makes sense, but if you want your players to have a better chance at recalling something they've already heard then at least give them the chance of adding a proficiency bonus (especially if they are a wizard with proficiency in History and hence probably good at remembering things). I'd consider that most people would be proficient in remember where they put their keys (for example). You could likewise just say roll Int and add your proficiency bonus.
D&D doesn't have skill checks? What does it have when you use a skill?
An ability check with an applicable skill.
I would go with flat intelligence. It's definitely intelligence as that's your ability to remember stuff as opposed to wisdom which is your ability to connect to your surroundings. I don't like tying it to history as I don't see the connection between having studied the history of the world and your ability to remember your own history. I also don't see any reason your ability to remember things in your own life would get better as you gain experience, if anything, the opposite seems true. (unless your experiences caused you to focus on that in some way, represented by an int increase)
Keep in mind though, if you're making it a flat stat roll, it should be lower DC than most things you call for checks on. Also, consider just telling them if it's actually important, these characters are a small part of the players' lives but their lives are the entire thing they have to focus on, they're far more likely to remember important details than the players.
So the DMG states that Intelligence are used for memory and most of use clearly agree on that aspect. Most of the debate seems to be around if the proficiency bonus applies. That seems to be a judgement call. Personally I'm not going to punish my players for not being court stenographers so I'm probably not going to even make them roll to remember something unless there are special circumstances around it (like a subtle clue that leads to an extra reward or something like that). What makes this strange is that we're having a character roll a check for something the person in real life can't remember.
I use straight intelligence checks to remember things. I don't normally allow players to add proficiency, but I don't usually make the DC high unless it's been a long time since the information in question was encountered.
Honestly, in the end, unless there is something of vital importance that they have to know, there's no point in rolling dice. Just tell them. If you have to make them roll, a flat out unmodified Intelligence check is fine. I've seen enough argument around that point to be convinced. I just kind of like the idea that in a game where magic is involved, player characters could honestly do things like guess at something and be right. I presented a system that I think would allow it, and I might use it in my game if I feel the need.
As for the difference between a "skill check" and an "ability check", thanks for explaining it to me, but whomever it was that first told me I was wrong isn't being nice. It's totally a matter of semantics. I just used the wrong word. In the Rules & Game Mechanics forum, exact wording can matter, but not here.
Not every skill is going to cover ever situation perfectly. Yes Int makes sense, but if you want your players to have a better chance at recalling something they've already heard then at least give them the chance of adding a proficiency bonus (especially if they are a wizard with proficiency in History and hence probably good at remembering things). I'd consider that most people would be proficient in remember where they put their keys (for example). You could likewise just say roll Int and add your proficiency bonus.
Why would me knowing about stuff that happened a long time ago (ie proficient in History) make me better at remember where I left my keys or what the clerk at the store I went to two was called?
As for the difference between a "skill check" and an "ability check", thanks for explaining it to me, but whomever it was that first told me I was wrong isn't being nice. It's totally a matter of semantics. I just used the wrong word. In the Rules & Game Mechanics forum, exact wording can matter, but not here.
No-one has been not nice to you or to anyone else in this thread. Nor has anyone adressed you concerning this specifically. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.
I thought about this for a while. I kept trying to answer and justify myself, but in the end I keep erasing what I had written. I'm in the wrong. You were trying to help. You noticed that I was inaccurate and you mentioned it in passing. I shouldn't have said anything, so I apologize.
After consideration, I submit that I was actually correct. I was talking about using a skill.
The long version is "If you want to ride a horse, for example, you have the ability to make a check against a target number determined by your Dungeon Master, modified by your level of proficiency in Animal Handling, modified by the bonus derived from your Wisdom score. You roll a twenty sided die, apply all modifiers, and see if you succeed or not."
This is shorted to "Ability Check", but if you're technical, an Ability Check is only used when you don't have the relevant skill. To use the same example it would go; "If you want to ride a horse you have the ability to make a check against a target number determined by your Dungeon Master against your Wisdom score. You roll a twenty sided die and see if you succeed or not."
Thank you all for your help! I have decided to use Arcana, Religion or History when appropriate. If not, a straight intelligence roll with proficiency bonus. It makes sense to me that characters would have proficiency in remembering day to day details.
Regarding just informing the players: The campaigns in question are duet campaigns and the first campaign the players have played in. This kind of situation shows up frequently, and I don't want the players to feel that I'm constantly handing them information. I want them to feel that their characters earn the info I give them.
When the players don't remember something important that they saw or interacted with that the characters could reasonably recall, I tend to ask for a skill check. The problem is, I'm not sure which. First, would it be intelligence or wisdom? I'm leaning towards intelligence, but it could also be a sort of reverse perception check. If it is intelligence, which would it be, arcana, history, investigation, nature, or religion?
Should I just create a new skill? Intelligence Recollection?
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
I use History for these types of interactions since it's something they already know.
I think history or arcana.
Just remembering details or a fact? Plain INT check.
I agree with Voras. Straight intelligence check.
The difference between this and, say, a history check? You don't get to add your proficiency bonus to it.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
+1 for a generic INT check with a DC based on in-game time elapsed. Intelligence is the stat that represents information recall and memory.
Maybe something like: Same Day DC 5, Same Week DC 10, Same Month DC 15, Same Year DC 18, >1 Year DC 20
Or perhaps a more streamlined option would be: INT DC 15 (Advantage if less than a month, Disadvantage if greater than 1 year,)
Tbh, if it’s important, just tell them. Or just don’t, and tell them to take notes next time.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
My thought process is... if it's something they would be able to learn if they just spent a few minutes flipping through their notes, just tell it to them. All you're doing by telling them outright is saving time.
If it's something that maybe seemed like it wasn't worth writing down at the time (like, if they meet an NPC again who seemed like they were just background flavor earlier but was secretly someone tailing them), I let them do a History check to see if the recognize them. History is absolutely not the "correct" check for that... logically it would make sense just to give them a straight INT check, but honestly I usually want my players to succeed at these kind of things so I throw them a bone and give the possibility for them to gain the benefits of proficiency.
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Oh yes if it is in their notes, there is no roll, as far as I am concerned.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
"When the players don't remember something important that they saw or interacted with that the characters could reasonably recall, I tend to ask for a skill check. The problem is, I'm not sure which. First, would it be intelligence or wisdom? I'm leaning towards intelligence, but it could also be a sort of reverse perception check. If it is intelligence, which would it be, arcana, history, investigation, nature, or religion? Should I just create a new skill? Intelligence Recollection?"
I don't really see any reason why a History check wouldn't work over a straight Int roll. It is, after all, a part of their personal history. If it's something that's less than reasonable for them to remember and there are any clues around, Investigation ought to be able to turn it up and you can set the DC for that depending on what the clues are and how many of them they find. Depending on where they might have learned it, any of the checks might work. A Wizard high enough level to have chosen a School could use Arcana, A Druid, Ranger, or Barbarian might have learned it from Natures, and any member of the clergy, from an Acolyte on up could use Religion.
It if there is nothing else, and the players just want to pull an answer of of thin air, let them us a passive Insight check at whatever DC you want. For example, if they run into an NPC they have never met before and want to try and call them by name, if they are wearing some kind of clue, like a name tag, or the symbol of a guild that's famous enough for people who are big parts of the guild to have their name bandied about, let them do the check, that's Investigation, and if they just want to make up a name and hope they are right? That's Nearly Impossible, which is a passive Insight check at a DC of 30. It's a magical world, so there are various ways this might actually be possible. They could use a point of Inspiration to roll twice and take the best of the two, someone else could use the Help action, but that doesn't stack with Advantage, and if there is a Bard around, they can use Bardic Inspiration to add a die that gets bigger depending on the level of the Bard to the check.
So in D&D, it's actually possible to just flat out guess someone's name, and get it right. Obviously, anything they already have written down they would know without any need for a check.
<Insert clever signature here>
Add another to the straight Int check (remember, there are no skill checks in 5E) but with the following caveats.
I'd tell them but I'd have them roll just to add a bit of suspense. "An 8 you say? OK, this is what you remember."
You mean besides the obvious that History doesn't cover "personal history" and that Intelligence is the stat that represents information recall and memory, you mean? Just because I know a lot about WW2 doesn't mean I can remember where I put my keys...
Not every skill is going to cover ever situation perfectly. Yes Int makes sense, but if you want your players to have a better chance at recalling something they've already heard then at least give them the chance of adding a proficiency bonus (especially if they are a wizard with proficiency in History and hence probably good at remembering things). I'd consider that most people would be proficient in remember where they put their keys (for example). You could likewise just say roll Int and add your proficiency bonus.
D&D doesn't have skill checks? What does it have when you use a skill?
<Insert clever signature here>
An ability check with an applicable skill.
I would go with flat intelligence. It's definitely intelligence as that's your ability to remember stuff as opposed to wisdom which is your ability to connect to your surroundings. I don't like tying it to history as I don't see the connection between having studied the history of the world and your ability to remember your own history. I also don't see any reason your ability to remember things in your own life would get better as you gain experience, if anything, the opposite seems true. (unless your experiences caused you to focus on that in some way, represented by an int increase)
Keep in mind though, if you're making it a flat stat roll, it should be lower DC than most things you call for checks on. Also, consider just telling them if it's actually important, these characters are a small part of the players' lives but their lives are the entire thing they have to focus on, they're far more likely to remember important details than the players.
So the DMG states that Intelligence are used for memory and most of use clearly agree on that aspect. Most of the debate seems to be around if the proficiency bonus applies. That seems to be a judgement call. Personally I'm not going to punish my players for not being court stenographers so I'm probably not going to even make them roll to remember something unless there are special circumstances around it (like a subtle clue that leads to an extra reward or something like that). What makes this strange is that we're having a character roll a check for something the person in real life can't remember.
for reference: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/running-the-game#AbilityChecks
I use straight intelligence checks to remember things. I don't normally allow players to add proficiency, but I don't usually make the DC high unless it's been a long time since the information in question was encountered.
Honestly, in the end, unless there is something of vital importance that they have to know, there's no point in rolling dice. Just tell them. If you have to make them roll, a flat out unmodified Intelligence check is fine. I've seen enough argument around that point to be convinced. I just kind of like the idea that in a game where magic is involved, player characters could honestly do things like guess at something and be right. I presented a system that I think would allow it, and I might use it in my game if I feel the need.
As for the difference between a "skill check" and an "ability check", thanks for explaining it to me, but whomever it was that first told me I was wrong isn't being nice. It's totally a matter of semantics. I just used the wrong word. In the Rules & Game Mechanics forum, exact wording can matter, but not here.
<Insert clever signature here>
Why would me knowing about stuff that happened a long time ago (ie proficient in History) make me better at remember where I left my keys or what the clerk at the store I went to two was called?
No-one has been not nice to you or to anyone else in this thread. Nor has anyone adressed you concerning this specifically. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.
I thought about this for a while. I kept trying to answer and justify myself, but in the end I keep erasing what I had written. I'm in the wrong. You were trying to help. You noticed that I was inaccurate and you mentioned it in passing. I shouldn't have said anything, so I apologize.
After consideration, I submit that I was actually correct. I was talking about using a skill.
The long version is "If you want to ride a horse, for example, you have the ability to make a check against a target number determined by your Dungeon Master, modified by your level of proficiency in Animal Handling, modified by the bonus derived from your Wisdom score. You roll a twenty sided die, apply all modifiers, and see if you succeed or not."
This is shorted to "Ability Check", but if you're technical, an Ability Check is only used when you don't have the relevant skill. To use the same example it would go; "If you want to ride a horse you have the ability to make a check against a target number determined by your Dungeon Master against your Wisdom score. You roll a twenty sided die and see if you succeed or not."
If you have the skill, it's a Skill Check.
<Insert clever signature here>
Thank you all for your help! I have decided to use Arcana, Religion or History when appropriate. If not, a straight intelligence roll with proficiency bonus. It makes sense to me that characters would have proficiency in remembering day to day details.
Regarding just informing the players: The campaigns in question are duet campaigns and the first campaign the players have played in. This kind of situation shows up frequently, and I don't want the players to feel that I'm constantly handing them information. I want them to feel that their characters earn the info I give them.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep