I always wanted to play DnD but failed to find a group so I decided to get it going myself. I watched lots of videos and studied the guides and had one shortish session (with new players as well), during which I encountered some problems or things I'd like to ask about, so here goes:
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds.. for example one fails to open a lock, so they would take turns until all try it a d hopefully succeed. is it ok? It feels kinda weird but ok at the same time
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table... What is the best thing to do here?
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
I hope the questions are not too stupid, but it's something that popped up. Thank you very much, I'm happy to be here ❤️
1) this is a common problem - I tend to put the role on the person who came up with the idea and allow upto two people to try or one try with advantage for being helped. Your friend here is asking the players why there character would be able to try. So the rogue and artificer have both just attempted to pick a lock and failed so the paladin steps forward and says “my turn” and you ask them “why do you think your character would be able to succeed where he just saw a thief and a tinker fail” . You can apply this to any check. If they have a good reason let them role.
2)they will need someplace to store all the things they pick up and have to carry it so let them strip every person bare and then watch their disappointed faces when they get like 5 silver for everything. Not everything has to be good loot nor should it be, if they want to collect a goblins soiled loincloth and terrible sword made from a shard of metal, rotting animal bone and duct tape that’s on them.
3) you just have to make sure they know how you play - when they ask for a roll drill into what they want to do.
it sounds like a lot of your problems stem from players that are to invested in the game mechanics and not as much in the cooperative story telling, which is not wrong, but if that’s not the game you want to run you need to talk with your players.
1. There are different ways to handle the multiple tries thing. If there's no pressure/time constraints/consequences, make the DC lower or give them a +10. If the chest isn't going to explode and a monster isn't going to jump out of the darkness at them, there's no reason the rogue can't take an hour to open the chest instead of a minute. If others want to try, they need to have the relevant skill (especially with thieves tools and lock picking checks). They can try to pick the lock with a spear if they aren't proficient in thieves tools but then the DC goes up and might jam the lock. They could also just try to bash open the lock, or use magic in creative ways.
2. Giving loot is a balancing act. If they want to loot, make them roll an investigation check. If they roll high, consider giving them something extra (extra gold, a potion, trinket, etc.). If they roll low, or if the situation just doesn't make sense for extra loot, just give them a description of the worthless items around and let them decide if they want to play scrap collector. You can even generalize it and say there's 50 pounds of goblin junk worth about 50 silver.
3. Players don't ask for checks - ever. They ask the DM what they want to try and the DM assigns the relevant check.
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
The most straightforward answer is to remind the players that they can't ask for a check... they're supposed to say what their characters intend to do and you as the DM decide what they should be doing. However, I understand from a player's perspective that it can be easy to just get so used to shouting "Insight Check!" when they want to see if someone is lying and they forget that it's meant to be more complicated than that. So something I do sometimes is simply say to the player, "Okay, what does <your character> do as part of their <ability check>?" Even if it's something as simple as, "I put my hand over my eyes and look around" or just, "I squint and look at him", it's enough. It helps them get used to the idea of treating it like they're playing as real people in a living world, rather than functions of a character sheet on graph paper.
1. A party of 4 will have (for your example) 1 person who has a good chance of success. If that person fails, another can try, for sure. I tend, however, to run it that if an inexperienced player is trying something that is a skill (lockpicking, slight of hand, etc) failure can mean THAT method is now out of the mix. They twist too hard and hear a sharp snap, as the tumbler twists and binds in it's spot.
2. Loot tables are meh, so I'd suggest using it as more a guide than anything. Their foes always have stuff, badly rusted weapons, damaged armor, ratty clothes. If they want to try and haul it all around, as someone said, the whole lot is worth about 3 gold. Also if they are a while between towns, the bags fill, so pick and choose what of the crap they want to drag around. They should soon realize that any loot worth picking up will be mentioned by the DM.
3. Asking to do checks as opposed to being suggested is something again of a conditioning thing. If they happen to enter a room where you have something for the to potentially find, you describe it, and perhaps prompt, "Does anyone want to do anything specific?" On the flip side, if a player enters a room with nothing I intended and asks for a roll, I say sure and proceed to tell them that they take 5 minutes, checking everything out and find some dust, debris and a few rusted bits. When I ask if they want to do anything specific, I am looking for someone to say "I will search the dresser for anything odd or out of place" or some such. Give a specific thing or area you want to search for the roll to mean something and at least have a chance for success. When this isn't working, and they ask "Can I roll investigation?" I will say sure, but you find nothing, even on the nat 20.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds. I take the person with the highest chance and let them try. Whatever skill they have, modified by their bonus, ends up being the highest get to try once. I will let the other player characters enhance the roll however they can, and I will let them try. If they fail, I will allow one other player character the chance to try. I'll let them use the same skill or whatever other skill they want to use, and I will let the other player characters enhance the roll however they can, and I will let them try. Once. If they fail, it's considered impossible at that point, and I'll let anyone else who wants to give it a go one more try each, at a difficulty class of 30.
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table. If they had magical loot that made a difference in the fight, then the players should be allowed to loot it, if it didn't make a difference, even if it was magical, I will give them a non-magical item. I justify this in my mind by saying whatever magic was on it faded away.
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check. The rules say players cannot ask to make a check. Enforce that rule. Talk it over with them, try and get a meeting of the minds, and if they won't follow your rule, then ask them to leave. If you have some reason why you want them to stay, like they are a close friend or family member, and you can't convince them in a private conversation, offer them the chance to be the DM, because you can't be unless they follow the rules.
4. Ideally, this kind of thing should have been covered in Session Zero, but if it wasn't, then you have to take steps. Talk things over as a group. Talk things over in private. Give them the chance to leave or pass over the DM Hat.
1. Classical issue :-) I would say that in quite a few of those situations, you should probably NOT have asked for a check, just allow them to pick the lock or what ever. Probably sounds strange, put it has good reasons. Think of it the other way around: What is the bad stuff that happens when the fail the pick lock test? If there really is no bad stuff, then they can just try over and over until they succeed, and thus it isn't really necessary to roll. "Bad stuff" can be a lot of things here. Exaples:
It can be that they loose time (each attempt takes a given amount of time). Works very well if they are chasing someone, in a room that fill up with water, or just in a hurry. Do they really want to spend another half hour trying to get that chest open if they know the owner of the house soon's coming home.
Take som HP. Sure the rules don't say so, but when you have no other ideas, let them get their fingers into that lock and "smack". 1 HP lost.
Take their stuff. Lockpicking failed: You broke your lock picking toolset.
Make it cost money: Sure, you can make another attempt at persuading the guard, but it WILL cost some money.
Basically: It isn't about making it hurt A LOT, but just making failure matter. If failure really doesn't matter, reconsider if it really is worth rolling for.
2. Clothes of dead monsters are bloody and torn, no-body will buy them, weapons can be damaged etc. Try to explain to the players that the loot they get from the table is basically what's left that's worth anything. But IF you told them that goblin had that fantastic silvered sword with a ruby hilt - yes, the players can pick that up.
3. As long as the checks the players want to do is within reason, I wouldn't mind to much. The difference between saying "Can I make a listen check to spot if there is someone in the next room" or saying "I put my ear gently towards the wall and listen carefully after any noice in the next room" is only superficial. Sometimes it is actually better if the player just says straight out what he/she wants to try. But you might want to assure your players that you'll ask them for skill checks if it's really important, and tell them to focus more on describing what they do. However then you should NOT suddenly have one of them go into a trap because they didn't say explicitly "we're searching the room for traps" or other similar things. In the end, this is a balance issue, you and your players will work out together. They'll have to learn when they can trust you to ask for call when it is necessary, and when they should "ask" for them themselves.
My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds.. for example one fails to open a lock, so they would take turns until all try it a d hopefully succeed. is it ok? It feels kinda weird but ok at the same time
This is up to you. I do not allow it. What I will allow is one person who is proficient to assist, and give advantage to the rolling player. They do this on Critical Role... the DM calls it "helming" the roll. One player "helms" it, one or more assist, and the "helming" player gets advantage. I'll be honest, I don't like a lot of the things they do on CR, but this is one place I think they get it 100% correct.
But if you want to allow it, by all means, you can allow it. It's up to you as a DM.
My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table... What is the best thing to do here?
The PCs should be allowed to take anything they want off of the bodies of their fallen enemies. A simple rule is this: if you don't want the PCs to have it, don't put it onto an NPC the PCs might kill or steal from. The PCs *will* get it, eventually.
This is really up to you to control. If you don't want them to get weapons and armor and go around selling it, you can have them fight enemies who have natural hide that gives them AC and who have innate weapons like claws and bites. Those cannot (easily) be removed from the enemy. But if you give an orc a bow and some arrows, you should expect, and allow, the PCs to take the arrows, at least (for ammo) and possibly the bow, if they want it.
If you use strict encumbrance rules, you will find that they can't take all that much. The players will not be able to carry multiple suits of unremarkable leather armor around just to sell it for a few GP. Also, you can rule that the items are there, but so banged up in battle as to be unusable and worthless.
My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
You may just have to be forceful. "I applaud your enthusiasm but as a DM, I call for a check. You just describe what you are doing to me.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
In the standard D&D game, if you're at the "Helm", someone else can use the "Help" action, which allows them to give someone else Advantage on their next Ability Check, so it's not something just out of Critical Role. You can spend a point of Inspiration the DM has given you to give yourself Advantage, but this does not stack with Advantage from anywhere else, and a Bard can give you Bardic Inspiration, which is a different thing entirely. It adds, at first level, 1d8 to your Ability Check (it goes up to a d10 at tenth level and goes to a d12 at 15th), and that does stack with Advantage. The rules also allow you to substitute a different score for the same skill in some cases, if the DM allows it, and they have the option of letting player characters "take 10" to save real world time.
"A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score."
So far as I know, there's nothing that says you can't use that system on a skill check of any kind.
For the first question, I would prob say that it’s a common problem, and it’s up to personal preference, I run normally just a 1 person group for my brother during COVID, and I just give him one normally, but occasionally two, just because it’s hard playing without other players (he also doesn’t like sidekicks or him playing as two people, and I don’t want to play as someone, so…), but its always up to personal preference.
For number two, you don’t have to be giving loot out on every monster or npc, but it is good to occasionally do it, so they don’t think they are trying to kill monsters for just experience.
and for number three, if they want to do stupid things, let them. The inside of the DMG literally has a thing about if players want to do stupid things, you can just keep a straight face and let them get themselves killed and have to restart.
Wow thank you so much guys for this awesome insight! :) I'll be sure to use it next time <3
And also there's one more thing I wanted to ask.. when the players knock some NPC unconscious, what do they have to do after a fight to be able to interrogate? I tried looking it up but with no luck, so am wondering how do you actually do it?
Once the NPC is unconscious, you'd need to figure out their response to being awakened, and how that dovetails with what the players have done. Did they tie the NPC up? Are they holding a knife to the NPC's throat? Have they cast a zone of truth spell? That kind of thing.
Traditionally in a roleplaying game, if the PCs win the fight, that victory entitles them to certain things. In the rules of 5e, for example, they can declare "non-lethal damage" in order to K-O the enemy, on the logic that if you have done enough damage to kill the NPC, you can do anything less than killing it by choice. Also traditionally, once the players have defeated enemies in combat, they are entitled to say "We slap them awake" and then do an interrogation. There's no guarantee the enemy will be cooperative (some will spit in their faces and ask for death, others will bargain away everything for a chance at life), but there's no reason to figure out some "mechanism" to wake up the enemy. Just assume they can splash water in the NPC's face or something and let them wake it up at 1 hp. Do not, unless you have a very good reason, have the NPC start the fight over. Again, the players have won. Being able to awaken and interrogate an enemy without starting the fight over again is traditionally accepted as one of the fruits of victory.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I always wanted to play DnD but failed to find a group so I decided to get it going myself. I watched lots of videos and studied the guides and had one shortish session (with new players as well), during which I encountered some problems or things I'd like to ask about, so here goes:
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds.. for example one fails to open a lock, so they would take turns until all try it a d hopefully succeed. is it ok? It feels kinda weird but ok at the same time
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table... What is the best thing to do here?
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
I hope the questions are not too stupid, but it's something that popped up. Thank you very much, I'm happy to be here ❤️
Here's how I handle these very common problems!
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds.. for example one fails to open a lock, so they would take turns until all try it a d hopefully succeed. is it ok? It feels kinda weird but ok at the same time
If you allow enough rolls, eventually someone succeeds. At the same time, if you allow enough rolls at something like Stealth, then eventually even the Stealthiest rogue rolls a natural 1. It's important not to allow turn taking.
When it comes to a physical check for something like breaking down a door, I would allow a single roll (with advantage if someone else is helping). After that, look to see if the character fails or succeeds. If the others all want to try, then they use the same rolled number. This may mean success for a stronger character, or a character with a proficiency bonus, if they are trying to break down a door. That number stands as the rolled number until they take a short rest.
For something like recalling information (History, Religon etc), instead of advantage you can allow each player to simultaneously make a check.
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table... What is the best thing to do here?
The players get whatever they would find! If they want the orc's clothes after killing it, then they get its clothes. If they go into a baker's shop and you say "There are about 30 loaves of bread" then they can buy or steal the bread. Don't worry about this other than to think that the more creative you are with minor details, the more fun and immersive the world is.
As standard, an NPC will probably have:
An amount of money appropriate for their daily activities - a goblin might have 4sp, a noble might be carrying 200gp. Whatever is plausible.
A few nicknacks and small items of no real value. The goblin has a bit of string, a chicken's foot, a brightly coloured rock. The noble will have a letter inviting him to dinner last week, a string of wooden prayer beads, and a used handkerchief.
All of the clothing that they're wearing. As a general rule, unless you want to hand out armour, armour is ruined when a creature is killed wearing it. Also pay attention to sizing! I rule that a creature must have Str, Dex and Con scores all within 2 points of the original wearer's stats in order to fit in the same clothes/armour.
Any weapons it can attack with, it has. Standard ammunition is 20 units of ammo for a ranged weapon, or 3-6 throwing weapons.
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
This is ok. Players can say "Can I make an Insight check?" or "Can I make a History check to see what I know about that?" rather than "I think he's lying" and "I think deeply about history..."
But what they cannot do is insist on making a check for something. As DM you get to tell them whether or not they can make a check. If they try to insist on making checks, just tell them after they roll that the DC is 200 and that will probably make them see that they're being silly in a fun way. Just ask them "Describe to me what you're trying to do." My players have always responded perfectly well to that.
And also there's one more thing I wanted to ask.. when the players knock some NPC unconscious, what do they have to do after a fight to be able to interrogate? I tried looking it up but with no luck, so am wondering how do you actually do it?
This is one of the most difficult aspects of D&D RPGs to run.
In Session Zero, I explain the following:
It is really not fun at all to have to RP as a victim. A tied up, bloodily beaten prisoner who is scared of the PCs is deeply uncomfortable to play. Inform the players that this will never be roleplayed.
Explain to the players that torture and the threat of it has been proven, very categorically, not to work. You can look up studies on this if you wish. A tortured victim will tell the torturer whatever they believe the torturer wants to hear. They will say anything at all; some victims have been known to give totally contradictory information, and others have made claims such as that they are the king of Egypt when they've never even been there. So as far as the game is concerned, a tortured creature should always give false information. (I actually go further than this and simply tell them that because it spoils my enjoyment of the game, they cannot torture NPCs or monsters).
If you interrogate an NPC, you can tell me the questions you want to ask them. You can then choose to make an ability check using Persuasion (Good Cop), Intimidation (Bad Cop), Deception (pretending you're on their side), Performance (pretending you're someone else completely).
Fails check - You get no useful information that you don't already know
Narrow success - within 1-3 points of the DC - you get some basic information
Good success - 4-9 points of the DC - you get some information relating to most of your questions
High success - 10+ points above the DC - you get good information for all questions
If the PCs have further questions after this, then repeat the process.
I always wanted to play DnD but failed to find a group so I decided to get it going myself. I watched lots of videos and studied the guides and had one shortish session (with new players as well), during which I encountered some problems or things I'd like to ask about, so here goes:
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds.. for example one fails to open a lock, so they would take turns until all try it a d hopefully succeed. is it ok? It feels kinda weird but ok at the same time
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table... What is the best thing to do here?
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
I hope the questions are not too stupid, but it's something that popped up. Thank you very much, I'm happy to be here ❤️
1) What prevents the party from just retrying the check over and over? Will monsters come if they fail to pick the lock, will the lockpicks breaks? Will a trap go off if they fail? If the answer to all these things is no, then there is no reason to call for a check at all, just let the rogue open the door with thieves tools, because given enough time, they will succeed. This all ties into the idea that "You shouldn't call for a check if there is no downside to them failing". It's a common problem for DMs to call for too many rolls.
If there is a penalty for them failing, then after that penalty strikes, sure, let them roll again, and if they fail again, another penalty might come, another patrol of monsters, or NOW the lockpicks break. This situation is known as skill dogpiling, and usually the way that I deal with it is that I only allow 2 players to roll the check or one with advantage, and if they want to try the check again it's going to cost them time or another roll on an event table.
2) Are they asking for loot or are they asking to loot the bodies? If they are just asking to loot the bodies and whatever the module says doesn't describe it, it's entirely up to you, you can just say "You find nothing else of value" or you can just roll a d20, get a 13, and say "you find 13 gold pieces and a photo of this bandits daughter". Ultimately it's your game, and the only risk you run giving away money and items is flooding the party with resources, but ultimately gold isn't that big a deal. If they're asking for magic items though, you should be wary of giving too many out, and save those for rewards after milestones and boss fights and such, unless you're playing in a high magic setting.
3) Ask your players for the INTENT of what they want to do. "What are you trying to accomplish here?". Do not allow them to say "I want to roll survival". Ask them for what their CHARACTER is doing, not them as a player. Once they say "I want to see if I can find any footprints or signs of a fight", then you can follow with "Go ahead and roll Survival or Investigation".
"eventually even the Stealthiest rogue rolls a natural 1." I know you didn't actually say it, but Sanvael, I find that while I usually agree with your posts, I would like to point out, there's no game effect when you roll a Natural 1 on a skill check. Actually, in the current edition of the game, there's no such thing as a Critical Failure unless you are talking about me, because I am often critical, and people often fail to see my point, or you are making Death Checks.
When you roll a 1 in combat, all that happens by the rules is that you miss. Any other effect is Homebrew, it's a house rule. There are rules about Critical Hits, and there are times when you can crit automatically. One of the oddities of the game is that you can make Death Checks, which implies that avoiding death is a skill. I guess that's something that takes practice and you can learn to get better at it if you train in it. (No, not really, I'm making a joke.) In any case, when making Death Checks and you roll a Natural 1, it means you failed two Death Checks, and you could call that a Critical Failure. A Natural 20 means that instead of just going to stable, you gain one hit point (normally that takes 1d4 hours after you stabilize), and if someone else hits you when you are down to zero, you will fall prone, and the rules say they crit automatically, no matter what damage they do. Two hits of any kind and you are dead.
I like the points you made about Interrogation. You've got a good system there.
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
The most straightforward answer is to remind the players that they can't ask for a check... they're supposed to say what their characters intend to do and you as the DM decide what they should be doing. However, I understand from a player's perspective that it can be easy to just get so used to shouting "Insight Check!" when they want to see if someone is lying and they forget that it's meant to be more complicated than that. So something I do sometimes is simply say to the player, "Okay, what does <your character> do as part of their <ability check>?" Even if it's something as simple as, "I put my hand over my eyes and look around" or just, "I squint and look at him", it's enough. It helps them get used to the idea of treating it like they're playing as real people in a living world, rather than functions of a character sheet on graph paper.
Bold section is so very true. This was a problem at a table I am a player at and my DM asked me for advice as it was bothering him that people were just saying "Insight check!" in response to meeting any NPC. I told him that he needs to make sure everyone knows that they need to describe what their character is doing and let him determine what check should be made.
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Hello!
I always wanted to play DnD but failed to find a group so I decided to get it going myself. I watched lots of videos and studied the guides and had one shortish session (with new players as well), during which I encountered some problems or things I'd like to ask about, so here goes:
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds.. for example one fails to open a lock, so they would take turns until all try it a d hopefully succeed. is it ok? It feels kinda weird but ok at the same time
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table... What is the best thing to do here?
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
I hope the questions are not too stupid, but it's something that popped up. Thank you very much, I'm happy to be here ❤️
1) this is a common problem - I tend to put the role on the person who came up with the idea and allow upto two people to try or one try with advantage for being helped. Your friend here is asking the players why there character would be able to try. So the rogue and artificer have both just attempted to pick a lock and failed so the paladin steps forward and says “my turn” and you ask them “why do you think your character would be able to succeed where he just saw a thief and a tinker fail” . You can apply this to any check. If they have a good reason let them role.
2)they will need someplace to store all the things they pick up and have to carry it so let them strip every person bare and then watch their disappointed faces when they get like 5 silver for everything. Not everything has to be good loot nor should it be, if they want to collect a goblins soiled loincloth and terrible sword made from a shard of metal, rotting animal bone and duct tape that’s on them.
3) you just have to make sure they know how you play - when they ask for a roll drill into what they want to do.
it sounds like a lot of your problems stem from players that are to invested in the game mechanics and not as much in the cooperative story telling, which is not wrong, but if that’s not the game you want to run you need to talk with your players.
Hi sardonicmonkey and thank you very much for your advice! ☺️ we will be starting Mines of Phandelver next week so I'll try it out soon ❤️
1. There are different ways to handle the multiple tries thing. If there's no pressure/time constraints/consequences, make the DC lower or give them a +10. If the chest isn't going to explode and a monster isn't going to jump out of the darkness at them, there's no reason the rogue can't take an hour to open the chest instead of a minute. If others want to try, they need to have the relevant skill (especially with thieves tools and lock picking checks). They can try to pick the lock with a spear if they aren't proficient in thieves tools but then the DC goes up and might jam the lock. They could also just try to bash open the lock, or use magic in creative ways.
2. Giving loot is a balancing act. If they want to loot, make them roll an investigation check. If they roll high, consider giving them something extra (extra gold, a potion, trinket, etc.). If they roll low, or if the situation just doesn't make sense for extra loot, just give them a description of the worthless items around and let them decide if they want to play scrap collector. You can even generalize it and say there's 50 pounds of goblin junk worth about 50 silver.
3. Players don't ask for checks - ever. They ask the DM what they want to try and the DM assigns the relevant check.
4. These are not stupid questions :)
The most straightforward answer is to remind the players that they can't ask for a check... they're supposed to say what their characters intend to do and you as the DM decide what they should be doing. However, I understand from a player's perspective that it can be easy to just get so used to shouting "Insight Check!" when they want to see if someone is lying and they forget that it's meant to be more complicated than that. So something I do sometimes is simply say to the player, "Okay, what does <your character> do as part of their <ability check>?" Even if it's something as simple as, "I put my hand over my eyes and look around" or just, "I squint and look at him", it's enough. It helps them get used to the idea of treating it like they're playing as real people in a living world, rather than functions of a character sheet on graph paper.
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1. A party of 4 will have (for your example) 1 person who has a good chance of success. If that person fails, another can try, for sure. I tend, however, to run it that if an inexperienced player is trying something that is a skill (lockpicking, slight of hand, etc) failure can mean THAT method is now out of the mix. They twist too hard and hear a sharp snap, as the tumbler twists and binds in it's spot.
2. Loot tables are meh, so I'd suggest using it as more a guide than anything. Their foes always have stuff, badly rusted weapons, damaged armor, ratty clothes. If they want to try and haul it all around, as someone said, the whole lot is worth about 3 gold. Also if they are a while between towns, the bags fill, so pick and choose what of the crap they want to drag around. They should soon realize that any loot worth picking up will be mentioned by the DM.
3. Asking to do checks as opposed to being suggested is something again of a conditioning thing. If they happen to enter a room where you have something for the to potentially find, you describe it, and perhaps prompt, "Does anyone want to do anything specific?" On the flip side, if a player enters a room with nothing I intended and asks for a roll, I say sure and proceed to tell them that they take 5 minutes, checking everything out and find some dust, debris and a few rusted bits. When I ask if they want to do anything specific, I am looking for someone to say "I will search the dresser for anything odd or out of place" or some such. Give a specific thing or area you want to search for the roll to mean something and at least have a chance for success. When this isn't working, and they ask "Can I roll investigation?" I will say sure, but you find nothing, even on the nat 20.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds. I take the person with the highest chance and let them try. Whatever skill they have, modified by their bonus, ends up being the highest get to try once. I will let the other player characters enhance the roll however they can, and I will let them try. If they fail, I will allow one other player character the chance to try. I'll let them use the same skill or whatever other skill they want to use, and I will let the other player characters enhance the roll however they can, and I will let them try. Once. If they fail, it's considered impossible at that point, and I'll let anyone else who wants to give it a go one more try each, at a difficulty class of 30.
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table. If they had magical loot that made a difference in the fight, then the players should be allowed to loot it, if it didn't make a difference, even if it was magical, I will give them a non-magical item. I justify this in my mind by saying whatever magic was on it faded away.
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check. The rules say players cannot ask to make a check. Enforce that rule. Talk it over with them, try and get a meeting of the minds, and if they won't follow your rule, then ask them to leave. If you have some reason why you want them to stay, like they are a close friend or family member, and you can't convince them in a private conversation, offer them the chance to be the DM, because you can't be unless they follow the rules.
4. Ideally, this kind of thing should have been covered in Session Zero, but if it wasn't, then you have to take steps. Talk things over as a group. Talk things over in private. Give them the chance to leave or pass over the DM Hat.
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Thank you all for such great advice! :)
I will talk it over carefully with my group before the next session and I especially like all the tips on encouraging the roleplaying in my players <3
I understand that it's gonna take some time, especially since we are all new and I truly appreciate the help I got here :)
1. Classical issue :-) I would say that in quite a few of those situations, you should probably NOT have asked for a check, just allow them to pick the lock or what ever. Probably sounds strange, put it has good reasons. Think of it the other way around: What is the bad stuff that happens when the fail the pick lock test? If there really is no bad stuff, then they can just try over and over until they succeed, and thus it isn't really necessary to roll. "Bad stuff" can be a lot of things here. Exaples:
Basically: It isn't about making it hurt A LOT, but just making failure matter. If failure really doesn't matter, reconsider if it really is worth rolling for.
2. Clothes of dead monsters are bloody and torn, no-body will buy them, weapons can be damaged etc. Try to explain to the players that the loot they get from the table is basically what's left that's worth anything. But IF you told them that goblin had that fantastic silvered sword with a ruby hilt - yes, the players can pick that up.
3. As long as the checks the players want to do is within reason, I wouldn't mind to much. The difference between saying "Can I make a listen check to spot if there is someone in the next room" or saying "I put my ear gently towards the wall and listen carefully after any noice in the next room" is only superficial. Sometimes it is actually better if the player just says straight out what he/she wants to try. But you might want to assure your players that you'll ask them for skill checks if it's really important, and tell them to focus more on describing what they do. However then you should NOT suddenly have one of them go into a trap because they didn't say explicitly "we're searching the room for traps" or other similar things. In the end, this is a balance issue, you and your players will work out together. They'll have to learn when they can trust you to ask for call when it is necessary, and when they should "ask" for them themselves.
Ludo ergo sum!
This is up to you. I do not allow it. What I will allow is one person who is proficient to assist, and give advantage to the rolling player. They do this on Critical Role... the DM calls it "helming" the roll. One player "helms" it, one or more assist, and the "helming" player gets advantage. I'll be honest, I don't like a lot of the things they do on CR, but this is one place I think they get it 100% correct.
But if you want to allow it, by all means, you can allow it. It's up to you as a DM.
The PCs should be allowed to take anything they want off of the bodies of their fallen enemies. A simple rule is this: if you don't want the PCs to have it, don't put it onto an NPC the PCs might kill or steal from. The PCs *will* get it, eventually.
This is really up to you to control. If you don't want them to get weapons and armor and go around selling it, you can have them fight enemies who have natural hide that gives them AC and who have innate weapons like claws and bites. Those cannot (easily) be removed from the enemy. But if you give an orc a bow and some arrows, you should expect, and allow, the PCs to take the arrows, at least (for ammo) and possibly the bow, if they want it.
If you use strict encumbrance rules, you will find that they can't take all that much. The players will not be able to carry multiple suits of unremarkable leather armor around just to sell it for a few GP. Also, you can rule that the items are there, but so banged up in battle as to be unusable and worthless.
You may just have to be forceful. "I applaud your enthusiasm but as a DM, I call for a check. You just describe what you are doing to me.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
In the standard D&D game, if you're at the "Helm", someone else can use the "Help" action, which allows them to give someone else Advantage on their next Ability Check, so it's not something just out of Critical Role. You can spend a point of Inspiration the DM has given you to give yourself Advantage, but this does not stack with Advantage from anywhere else, and a Bard can give you Bardic Inspiration, which is a different thing entirely. It adds, at first level, 1d8 to your Ability Check (it goes up to a d10 at tenth level and goes to a d12 at 15th), and that does stack with Advantage. The rules also allow you to substitute a different score for the same skill in some cases, if the DM allows it, and they have the option of letting player characters "take 10" to save real world time.
"A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score."
So far as I know, there's nothing that says you can't use that system on a skill check of any kind.
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Yes, I am aware of the rules... The term "helming" was what I meant. I hadn't heard it called that before.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
For the first question, I would prob say that it’s a common problem, and it’s up to personal preference, I run normally just a 1 person group for my brother during COVID, and I just give him one normally, but occasionally two, just because it’s hard playing without other players (he also doesn’t like sidekicks or him playing as two people, and I don’t want to play as someone, so…), but its always up to personal preference.
For number two, you don’t have to be giving loot out on every monster or npc, but it is good to occasionally do it, so they don’t think they are trying to kill monsters for just experience.
and for number three, if they want to do stupid things, let them. The inside of the DMG literally has a thing about if players want to do stupid things, you can just keep a straight face and let them get themselves killed and have to restart.
Hope this was helpful!
Wow thank you so much guys for this awesome insight! :) I'll be sure to use it next time <3
And also there's one more thing I wanted to ask.. when the players knock some NPC unconscious, what do they have to do after a fight to be able to interrogate? I tried looking it up but with no luck, so am wondering how do you actually do it?
Thank you!
That's just RP.
Once the NPC is unconscious, you'd need to figure out their response to being awakened, and how that dovetails with what the players have done. Did they tie the NPC up? Are they holding a knife to the NPC's throat? Have they cast a zone of truth spell? That kind of thing.
Traditionally in a roleplaying game, if the PCs win the fight, that victory entitles them to certain things. In the rules of 5e, for example, they can declare "non-lethal damage" in order to K-O the enemy, on the logic that if you have done enough damage to kill the NPC, you can do anything less than killing it by choice. Also traditionally, once the players have defeated enemies in combat, they are entitled to say "We slap them awake" and then do an interrogation. There's no guarantee the enemy will be cooperative (some will spit in their faces and ask for death, others will bargain away everything for a chance at life), but there's no reason to figure out some "mechanism" to wake up the enemy. Just assume they can splash water in the NPC's face or something and let them wake it up at 1 hp. Do not, unless you have a very good reason, have the NPC start the fight over. Again, the players have won. Being able to awaken and interrogate an enemy without starting the fight over again is traditionally accepted as one of the fruits of victory.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Here's how I handle these very common problems!
1. My players really want to take turns doing something until one of them succeeds.. for example one fails to open a lock, so they would take turns until all try it a d hopefully succeed. is it ok? It feels kinda weird but ok at the same time
If you allow enough rolls, eventually someone succeeds. At the same time, if you allow enough rolls at something like Stealth, then eventually even the Stealthiest rogue rolls a natural 1. It's important not to allow turn taking.
When it comes to a physical check for something like breaking down a door, I would allow a single roll (with advantage if someone else is helping). After that, look to see if the character fails or succeeds. If the others all want to try, then they use the same rolled number. This may mean success for a stronger character, or a character with a proficiency bonus, if they are trying to break down a door. That number stands as the rolled number until they take a short rest.
For something like recalling information (History, Religon etc), instead of advantage you can allow each player to simultaneously make a check.
2. My players keep asking for loot and its difficult to say no when apparently the NPCs had clothes and weapons but they are not part of the "official" loot table... What is the best thing to do here?
The players get whatever they would find! If they want the orc's clothes after killing it, then they get its clothes. If they go into a baker's shop and you say "There are about 30 loaves of bread" then they can buy or steal the bread. Don't worry about this other than to think that the more creative you are with minor details, the more fun and immersive the world is.
As standard, an NPC will probably have:
3. My players keep telling me they want to do such and such check, and I don't know how to encourage them to just tell me what they're doing so that I can decide on the check.. any tips?
This is ok. Players can say "Can I make an Insight check?" or "Can I make a History check to see what I know about that?" rather than "I think he's lying" and "I think deeply about history..."
But what they cannot do is insist on making a check for something. As DM you get to tell them whether or not they can make a check. If they try to insist on making checks, just tell them after they roll that the DC is 200 and that will probably make them see that they're being silly in a fun way. Just ask them "Describe to me what you're trying to do." My players have always responded perfectly well to that.
This is one of the most difficult aspects of D&D RPGs to run.
In Session Zero, I explain the following:
1) What prevents the party from just retrying the check over and over? Will monsters come if they fail to pick the lock, will the lockpicks breaks? Will a trap go off if they fail? If the answer to all these things is no, then there is no reason to call for a check at all, just let the rogue open the door with thieves tools, because given enough time, they will succeed. This all ties into the idea that "You shouldn't call for a check if there is no downside to them failing". It's a common problem for DMs to call for too many rolls.
If there is a penalty for them failing, then after that penalty strikes, sure, let them roll again, and if they fail again, another penalty might come, another patrol of monsters, or NOW the lockpicks break. This situation is known as skill dogpiling, and usually the way that I deal with it is that I only allow 2 players to roll the check or one with advantage, and if they want to try the check again it's going to cost them time or another roll on an event table.
2) Are they asking for loot or are they asking to loot the bodies? If they are just asking to loot the bodies and whatever the module says doesn't describe it, it's entirely up to you, you can just say "You find nothing else of value" or you can just roll a d20, get a 13, and say "you find 13 gold pieces and a photo of this bandits daughter". Ultimately it's your game, and the only risk you run giving away money and items is flooding the party with resources, but ultimately gold isn't that big a deal. If they're asking for magic items though, you should be wary of giving too many out, and save those for rewards after milestones and boss fights and such, unless you're playing in a high magic setting.
3) Ask your players for the INTENT of what they want to do. "What are you trying to accomplish here?". Do not allow them to say "I want to roll survival". Ask them for what their CHARACTER is doing, not them as a player. Once they say "I want to see if I can find any footprints or signs of a fight", then you can follow with "Go ahead and roll Survival or Investigation".
"eventually even the Stealthiest rogue rolls a natural 1." I know you didn't actually say it, but Sanvael, I find that while I usually agree with your posts, I would like to point out, there's no game effect when you roll a Natural 1 on a skill check. Actually, in the current edition of the game, there's no such thing as a Critical Failure unless you are talking about me, because I am often critical, and people often fail to see my point, or you are making Death Checks.
When you roll a 1 in combat, all that happens by the rules is that you miss. Any other effect is Homebrew, it's a house rule. There are rules about Critical Hits, and there are times when you can crit automatically. One of the oddities of the game is that you can make Death Checks, which implies that avoiding death is a skill. I guess that's something that takes practice and you can learn to get better at it if you train in it. (No, not really, I'm making a joke.) In any case, when making Death Checks and you roll a Natural 1, it means you failed two Death Checks, and you could call that a Critical Failure. A Natural 20 means that instead of just going to stable, you gain one hit point (normally that takes 1d4 hours after you stabilize), and if someone else hits you when you are down to zero, you will fall prone, and the rules say they crit automatically, no matter what damage they do. Two hits of any kind and you are dead.
I like the points you made about Interrogation. You've got a good system there.
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Bold section is so very true. This was a problem at a table I am a player at and my DM asked me for advice as it was bothering him that people were just saying "Insight check!" in response to meeting any NPC. I told him that he needs to make sure everyone knows that they need to describe what their character is doing and let him determine what check should be made.