I am a player 9 times out of 10 but I am going to do a module with my family soon and wanted some advice. The spell Wish can do in theory anything but if the caster wants to kill an enemy with it or deal damage with it what should I do. I know that everyone would allow them to do this but how much damage should I allow them to do. Because I am doing the Dungeon of the Mad Mage and am going to give them a character from a campaign I did with these guys. However, this will be my first time running a campaign and I feel unprepared to make changes to what happens in a module. Anyway, my main two questions are:
- I am going to have an NPC as part of their party helping them as they go through the campaign but, the NPC is a character I used in an earlier campaign in the same universe. In this case, how strong should I make him so that he isn't too strong but still has the strength of a seasoned warrior?
- If someone was to cast wish as an offensive spell, what should be the limits of what it can do as far as damage and other effects?
Casting wish for anything other than the examples quoted in the spell is frought with danger. The spell actually gives an example that if they wish that the bad guy is dead they can be moved forward in time until a time they are no longer alive. Another option would be that they then rise as an undead and still have to be dealt with (with the caster of wish having strength 3 and suffering necrotic deamage every time they cast a spell).
Depending where they are in the module when they cat it you could just let them kill an enemy, maybe they will be able to recover fully befor the next combat, maybe not but a 33% chance of not being able to cast wish again will prevent them doing it too often. I wouldn't allow this for the final boss fight however, final boss fights should be epic If the wizard wishes the BBEG is dead being followed by the announcement the camapaign is over if deflating or the whole party.
Do the players need a DMPC? It is a lot more work for the DM running a DMPC too.
Regarding Wish, the DMPC could simply be one or two levels above the rest of the party, even when they level up. This would prevent the DMPC gaining Wish until very late in the campaign.
I assume 'character casting wish' and 'npc' aren't the same character, because you can of course just not give then npc wish. In any case, if you wish someone or something dead:
If the target would have been killed by Power Word, Kill I would just kill the target (and since it's not a spell of level 1-8, you'd suffer stress)
If the target would not have been killed by Power Word, Kill, the wish will go wrong, as discussed in the spell description.
I question the necessity of the NPC being part of the party. Using them as a patron or some other resource, sure thing. If the party needs more warm bodies, give them sidekicks or let them hire mercenaries that they can run. As has been mentioned, you've already got plenty on your plate running the campaign, which, I might add, you have said you are not currently comfortable with. I might suggest that you not add more stress to yourself by running an NPC as a party member. DMPCs are very rarely a good idea.
Spells do what they say they do on the box. Wish clearly states that: "The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." If the PC asks for something outside the bounds of what's printed in the description, things should probably react accordingly. If the PC wants to deal damage, have them pick the spell that does the damage and work from there.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Try to avoid giving the PCs combat support from NPCs who are radically different in level to the party. I believe that your party will start at level 5. If you wish to include a DMPC, then they should be level 5 and scale up with the rest of the party.
If you give the PCs an ally capable of casting wish then that NPC will just solo kill everything in the dungeon until they reach somewhere around level 10. This is a game for the players, and their actions should be the most impactful, so the best answer is not to give them supporting characters that they don't control. It sucks when an NPC steals a killing blow, or can just fix a puzzle/diplomatic situation etc. with skills the other PCs don't have. At that point, you're basically just talking to yourself.
The real easy thing is to just not give them wish. Swap it with some other level 9 spell, and don’t allow them to take it if/when they level. It’s perfectly reasonable to ban a spell.
The real easy thing is to just not give them wish. Swap it with some other level 9 spell, and don’t allow them to take it if/when they level. It’s perfectly reasonable to ban a spell.
I think that's the simplest solution, but I also understand how a player might be super pumped to finally get to a high enough level to learn Wish. Not a lot of games get to level 17, and a lot of players dream of the day they'll finally have access to Wish and might be gutted to find out that it's being banned from the game.
Honestly, if you're going to ban wish, it's best to mention that detail as early as possible in the game. like... the first time a player starts talking about how much they're looking forward to Wish, you've gotta shut that down.
As for me... I agree with Pantagruel's take... treat it as Power Word Kill, and if it fails then give it a catastrophic workaround like the spell describes, and also give the player the draining Stress effects and make sure they roll to see if they lose the ability to cast Wish. If you remind them they can also use it to cast literally any spell of 8th level or lower, they might just choose to use it more strategically instead.
By the time a caster can cast Wish, things have already gotten so crazy that it's hardly an issue if they use it to kill something. I mean, doing so would risk never being able to cast it again, so it's pretty easy to say an NPC wouldn't want to do that, but a player could choose to if they want.
When my party took on this adventure, we had an ally in the Blackstaff. She's very powerful and well connected, but she's also very busy, and lives in a magic fortress, so you've gotta make an appointment to see her. We looted a spellbook with Wish in it and gave it to her, so then she could cast Wish, but she was planning on living a long time and didn't want to risk losing the spell for anything petty, so she only used it for the "safe" options, and only when she wasn't using that spell slot for something else.
We tried to stay out of her hair. Adventurer stuff is beneath her interest, she's tasked with protecting Waterdeep. That's a solid way to handle powerful NPCs. Let the players try to call in favors, and adjudicate whether the NPC helps based on the situation. If she'd been traveling the dungeon with us, it would've been pretty unsatisfying to just let her handle 99% of problems lol.
I think that's the simplest solution, but I also understand how a player might be super pumped to finally get to a high enough level to learn Wish. Not a lot of games get to level 17, and a lot of players dream of the day they'll finally have access to Wish and might be gutted to find out that it's being banned from the game.
Oh, you have no idea how accurate that statement is.
But I am not banning wish. I am going to give the players several sessions of battle to level them up for the actual module and I would kind of feel bad taking away a spell they are guaranteed to be able to cast.
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I am a player 9 times out of 10 but I am going to do a module with my family soon and wanted some advice. The spell Wish can do in theory anything but if the caster wants to kill an enemy with it or deal damage with it what should I do. I know that everyone would allow them to do this but how much damage should I allow them to do. Because I am doing the Dungeon of the Mad Mage and am going to give them a character from a campaign I did with these guys. However, this will be my first time running a campaign and I feel unprepared to make changes to what happens in a module. Anyway, my main two questions are:
- I am going to have an NPC as part of their party helping them as they go through the campaign but, the NPC is a character I used in an earlier campaign in the same universe. In this case, how strong should I make him so that he isn't too strong but still has the strength of a seasoned warrior?
- If someone was to cast wish as an offensive spell, what should be the limits of what it can do as far as damage and other effects?
Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
Casting wish for anything other than the examples quoted in the spell is frought with danger. The spell actually gives an example that if they wish that the bad guy is dead they can be moved forward in time until a time they are no longer alive. Another option would be that they then rise as an undead and still have to be dealt with (with the caster of wish having strength 3 and suffering necrotic deamage every time they cast a spell).
Depending where they are in the module when they cat it you could just let them kill an enemy, maybe they will be able to recover fully befor the next combat, maybe not but a 33% chance of not being able to cast wish again will prevent them doing it too often. I wouldn't allow this for the final boss fight however, final boss fights should be epic If the wizard wishes the BBEG is dead being followed by the announcement the camapaign is over if deflating or the whole party.
Do the players need a DMPC? It is a lot more work for the DM running a DMPC too.
Regarding Wish, the DMPC could simply be one or two levels above the rest of the party, even when they level up. This would prevent the DMPC gaining Wish until very late in the campaign.
I assume 'character casting wish' and 'npc' aren't the same character, because you can of course just not give then npc wish. In any case, if you wish someone or something dead:
Spells do what they say they do on the box. Wish clearly states that: "The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." If the PC asks for something outside the bounds of what's printed in the description, things should probably react accordingly. If the PC wants to deal damage, have them pick the spell that does the damage and work from there.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Try to avoid giving the PCs combat support from NPCs who are radically different in level to the party. I believe that your party will start at level 5. If you wish to include a DMPC, then they should be level 5 and scale up with the rest of the party.
If you give the PCs an ally capable of casting wish then that NPC will just solo kill everything in the dungeon until they reach somewhere around level 10. This is a game for the players, and their actions should be the most impactful, so the best answer is not to give them supporting characters that they don't control. It sucks when an NPC steals a killing blow, or can just fix a puzzle/diplomatic situation etc. with skills the other PCs don't have. At that point, you're basically just talking to yourself.
The real easy thing is to just not give them wish. Swap it with some other level 9 spell, and don’t allow them to take it if/when they level. It’s perfectly reasonable to ban a spell.
I think that's the simplest solution, but I also understand how a player might be super pumped to finally get to a high enough level to learn Wish. Not a lot of games get to level 17, and a lot of players dream of the day they'll finally have access to Wish and might be gutted to find out that it's being banned from the game.
Honestly, if you're going to ban wish, it's best to mention that detail as early as possible in the game. like... the first time a player starts talking about how much they're looking forward to Wish, you've gotta shut that down.
As for me... I agree with Pantagruel's take... treat it as Power Word Kill, and if it fails then give it a catastrophic workaround like the spell describes, and also give the player the draining Stress effects and make sure they roll to see if they lose the ability to cast Wish. If you remind them they can also use it to cast literally any spell of 8th level or lower, they might just choose to use it more strategically instead.
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By the time a caster can cast Wish, things have already gotten so crazy that it's hardly an issue if they use it to kill something. I mean, doing so would risk never being able to cast it again, so it's pretty easy to say an NPC wouldn't want to do that, but a player could choose to if they want.
When my party took on this adventure, we had an ally in the Blackstaff. She's very powerful and well connected, but she's also very busy, and lives in a magic fortress, so you've gotta make an appointment to see her. We looted a spellbook with Wish in it and gave it to her, so then she could cast Wish, but she was planning on living a long time and didn't want to risk losing the spell for anything petty, so she only used it for the "safe" options, and only when she wasn't using that spell slot for something else.
We tried to stay out of her hair. Adventurer stuff is beneath her interest, she's tasked with protecting Waterdeep. That's a solid way to handle powerful NPCs. Let the players try to call in favors, and adjudicate whether the NPC helps based on the situation. If she'd been traveling the dungeon with us, it would've been pretty unsatisfying to just let her handle 99% of problems lol.
Oh, you have no idea how accurate that statement is.
But I am not banning wish. I am going to give the players several sessions of battle to level them up for the actual module and I would kind of feel bad taking away a spell they are guaranteed to be able to cast.