So I am doing a campaign with firearms, and one of my players wants futuristic firearms. Problem is, we are starting at level 1, and 6d8 necrotic damage is a bit much. I tried to talk him out of it, but he is more stubborn than a mountain dwarf. Any suggestions?
If you're creating the campaign, are you going to permit futuristic weapons? You're the one controlling the narrative here. Set the rules and boundaries. If the player does not wish to abide by them, they're permitted to go pound sand.
Also, just b/c he wants futuristic weapons doesn't mean he gets to start with them. Like all adventurers, they should get basic gear. Something that deals 6d8 necrotic seems a bit high level for 1st level players. Make him work to find it or make it or something. Don't acquiesce to this guy, or you'll never be in control of your campaign.
It doesn't matter what the setting is or what the flavor of the campaign is, a 1st level character has no business wielding a 6d8 weapon. Period. That's the equivalent to letting 1st level characters cast 3rd or even 4th level spells. Out of the question. Simple as that.
Now, I know many campaigns don't always begin at level 1. Some DMs choose to begin a campaign with the characters at level 3, and that's fine. That's when most classes start getting their cool subclass flavored abilities. If you choose to go that route, that's perfectly valid. But even then, that character should still only be starting at 3rd level with a firearm that does damage roughly equivalent to what other classes are capable of doing at 3rd level.
And remember - you don't have to stand to-to-toe with the stubborn player all by yourself. Ask the other players - at the table - whether they are comfortable letting one player's character be so massively overpowered compared to their characters. Enlist their support in encouraging the stubborn player into seeing reason.
So I am doing a campaign with firearms, and one of my players wants futuristic firearms. Problem is, we are starting at level 1, and 6d8 necrotic damage is a bit much. I tried to talk him out of it, but he is more stubborn than a mountain dwarf. Any suggestions?
Tell them if a 1st level character gets a weapon that does 6d8 necrotic damage, so do the enemies they might face...
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To play a little devils advocate, what style game are running? If it's a musketers style game then no way, the tech hasn't been made yet. Now if your doing a cyberpunk future game, then do it. He has the bad ass weapon that every corporation will want, so run little player run, or it's a common weapon, and he gets shot at level one for 6d8, ouch.
The big issue is you told a player no, and and he thinks he can still have it. I am assuming you can't kick him out of your game group or you wouldn't be asking for help. So let his character have mental issues, and thinks his stick is a gun, and he can roll all he wants but has no effect on your game.
Your player is basically demanding an "I win" button; the simple answer is "no". Re-flavoring existing things is one thing, this is basically "I want free access to mid-level spell damage at first level".
Remind him/her that the game system is dungeons and dragons.
There are options by which they may search for a DM for a futuristic game. Unless you want it to be, that DM doesn't need to be you.
If you still wanted to entertain the player (after the reminder that the game is dungeons and dragons) you could always give them a starter, one charge space pistol dealing a meagre d (d4?) of damage for an arguably satisfying 'pew'.
However, you could still decide that magi-tech in your world is less powerful and less developed than conventional tech and, with potentially better damage options available they may come round.
The books don't have costs for modern firearms at all - if you look at pistol (1d10) for 250 gp or musket (1d12) for 500 gp, you could try scaling the price up proportionately and then you can tell the player how much they are going to have to find treasure hunting in order to be able to afford to buy one.
Or give them one, but don't provide any more ammo than the 2 shots that is carries.
Also keep in mind that weapons dealing radiant, necrotic or force damage may be less likely to face resistance or immunity so, if they were to be balanced, they might do/risk doing less damage.
What are the potential risks of someone attempting to use a perhaps prototype magi-tech weapon? The unofficial Gunslinger fighter subclass presents risks of misfires. Does that character really know what they're doing with that prototype magi-tech?
Otherwise, you could just advise your player of the option of become an artificer and taking the artillerist subclass at 3rd level. Their Eldritch Cannon can either work as a Flamethrower or Force Ballista... which might hopefully keep the player happy.
Tell the player No, those don't exist in this campaign setting. Get used to telling the player No. They're trying to tell you how the campaign needs to run, and they'll do it more every time you give in.
You won't be able to please 100% of the people all the time. I suggest you stand your ground on how you want your campaign world to work. If this weapon type isn't in your world, then it's not in your world. The player always has the chance to not play your campaign. Invite them to excercise that opportunity.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I included a laser gun as loot in an ancient laboratory in my game, and I set it up where the gun has 6 shots, and laser ammo is hyper-advanced and you can't make more of it, buy more of it, and chancesof finding more of it are low (but not zero, if they find another ruin from that ancient civilization is from), so make your shots count.
You could do the same if it's from the future. Gun gets sent back in time with X amount of ammo and no "how to make more ammo" manual attached. Maybe a high- level artificer who spends enough time and resources studying the weapon can figure out how it works and craft more ammunition, but they could also fail to.
Even then though, I absolutely would *not* make that available at level 1. That's too powerful and takes away from any player without a ray gun's experience. Either straight up tell them "no, you can't have one" or "no, you can't have one yet."
I included a laser gun as loot in an ancient laboratory in my game, and I set it up where the gun has 6 shots, and laser ammo is hyper-advanced and you can't make more of it, buy more of it, and chancesof finding more of it are low (but not zero, if they find another ruin from that ancient civilization is from), so make your shots count.
You could do the same if it's from the future. Gun gets sent back in time with X amount of ammo and no "how to make more ammo" manual attached. Maybe a high- level artificer who spends enough time and resources studying the weapon can figure out how it works and craft more ammunition, but they could also fail to.
Even then though, I absolutely would *not* make that available at level 1. That's too powerful and takes away from any player without a ray gun's experience. Either straight up tell them "no, you can't have one" or "no, you can't have one yet."
RAW, artificers work by infusing magic into items though a DM could certainly allow the different types of tech to work together.
I included a laser gun as loot in an ancient laboratory in my game, and I set it up where the gun has 6 shots, and laser ammo is hyper-advanced and you can't make more of it, buy more of it, and chancesof finding more of it are low (but not zero, if they find another ruin from that ancient civilization is from), so make your shots count.
You could do the same if it's from the future. Gun gets sent back in time with X amount of ammo and no "how to make more ammo" manual attached. Maybe a high- level artificer who spends enough time and resources studying the weapon can figure out how it works and craft more ammunition, but they could also fail to.
Even then though, I absolutely would *not* make that available at level 1. That's too powerful and takes away from any player without a ray gun's experience. Either straight up tell them "no, you can't have one" or "no, you can't have one yet."
RAW, artificers work by infusing magic into items though a DM could certainly allow the different types of tech to work together.
Yeah or maybe they're adapting the technology to work with an arcane power source. Or in my case, since it was created by an ancient civilization with a mastery over magic, maybe the laser gun is already a magic weapon, it just marries science and magic together to the point where it's difficult to see where one begins and the other ends.
I included a laser gun as loot in an ancient laboratory in my game, and I set it up where the gun has 6 shots, and laser ammo is hyper-advanced and you can't make more of it, buy more of it, and chancesof finding more of it are low (but not zero, if they find another ruin from that ancient civilization is from), so make your shots count.
You could do the same if it's from the future. Gun gets sent back in time with X amount of ammo and no "how to make more ammo" manual attached. Maybe a high- level artificer who spends enough time and resources studying the weapon can figure out how it works and craft more ammunition, but they could also fail to.
Even then though, I absolutely would *not* make that available at level 1. That's too powerful and takes away from any player without a ray gun's experience. Either straight up tell them "no, you can't have one" or "no, you can't have one yet."
RAW, artificers work by infusing magic into items though a DM could certainly allow the different types of tech to work together.
Yeah or maybe they're adapting the technology to work with an arcane power source. Or in my case, since it was created by an ancient civilization with a mastery over magic, maybe the laser gun is already a magic weapon, it just marries science and magic together to the point where it's difficult to see where one begins and the other ends.
Sorry, I didn't think far enough into your ancient laboratory context. In a system of magic with light and radiant energy, "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation" might certainly be possible. :D
So I am doing a campaign with firearms, and one of my players wants futuristic firearms. Problem is, we are starting at level 1, and 6d8 necrotic damage is a bit much. I tried to talk him out of it, but he is more stubborn than a mountain dwarf. Any suggestions?
You need to rework a entire system becouse ONE stubborn player? Kick him out. Neighter you and the rest of the party deserves to deal with that.
If you're creating the campaign, are you going to permit futuristic weapons? You're the one controlling the narrative here. Set the rules and boundaries. If the player does not wish to abide by them, they're permitted to go pound sand.
Also, just b/c he wants futuristic weapons doesn't mean he gets to start with them. Like all adventurers, they should get basic gear. Something that deals 6d8 necrotic seems a bit high level for 1st level players. Make him work to find it or make it or something. Don't acquiesce to this guy, or you'll never be in control of your campaign.
Tell him no. Simple as that.
It doesn't matter what the setting is or what the flavor of the campaign is, a 1st level character has no business wielding a 6d8 weapon. Period. That's the equivalent to letting 1st level characters cast 3rd or even 4th level spells. Out of the question. Simple as that.
Now, I know many campaigns don't always begin at level 1. Some DMs choose to begin a campaign with the characters at level 3, and that's fine. That's when most classes start getting their cool subclass flavored abilities. If you choose to go that route, that's perfectly valid. But even then, that character should still only be starting at 3rd level with a firearm that does damage roughly equivalent to what other classes are capable of doing at 3rd level.
And remember - you don't have to stand to-to-toe with the stubborn player all by yourself. Ask the other players - at the table - whether they are comfortable letting one player's character be so massively overpowered compared to their characters. Enlist their support in encouraging the stubborn player into seeing reason.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
Tell them if a 1st level character gets a weapon that does 6d8 necrotic damage, so do the enemies they might face...
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To play a little devils advocate, what style game are running? If it's a musketers style game then no way, the tech hasn't been made yet. Now if your doing a cyberpunk future game, then do it. He has the bad ass weapon that every corporation will want, so run little player run, or it's a common weapon, and he gets shot at level one for 6d8, ouch.
The big issue is you told a player no, and and he thinks he can still have it. I am assuming you can't kick him out of your game group or you wouldn't be asking for help. So let his character have mental issues, and thinks his stick is a gun, and he can roll all he wants but has no effect on your game.
Your player is basically demanding an "I win" button; the simple answer is "no". Re-flavoring existing things is one thing, this is basically "I want free access to mid-level spell damage at first level".
Remind him/her that the game system is dungeons and dragons.
There are options by which they may search for a DM for a futuristic game. Unless you want it to be, that DM doesn't need to be you.
If you still wanted to entertain the player (after the reminder that the game is dungeons and dragons) you could always give them a starter, one charge space pistol dealing a meagre d (d4?) of damage for an arguably satisfying 'pew'.
However, you could still decide that magi-tech in your world is less powerful and less developed than conventional tech and, with potentially better damage options available they may come round.
The books don't have costs for modern firearms at all - if you look at pistol (1d10) for 250 gp or musket (1d12) for 500 gp, you could try scaling the price up proportionately and then you can tell the player how much they are going to have to find treasure hunting in order to be able to afford to buy one.
Or give them one, but don't provide any more ammo than the 2 shots that is carries.
Also keep in mind that weapons dealing radiant, necrotic or force damage may be less likely to face resistance or immunity so, if they were to be balanced, they might do/risk doing less damage.
What are the potential risks of someone attempting to use a perhaps prototype magi-tech weapon? The unofficial Gunslinger fighter subclass presents risks of misfires. Does that character really know what they're doing with that prototype magi-tech?
Otherwise, you could just advise your player of the option of become an artificer and taking the artillerist subclass at 3rd level. Their Eldritch Cannon can either work as a Flamethrower or Force Ballista... which might hopefully keep the player happy.
Tell the player No, those don't exist in this campaign setting. Get used to telling the player No. They're trying to tell you how the campaign needs to run, and they'll do it more every time you give in.
You won't be able to please 100% of the people all the time. I suggest you stand your ground on how you want your campaign world to work. If this weapon type isn't in your world, then it's not in your world. The player always has the chance to not play your campaign. Invite them to excercise that opportunity.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I included a laser gun as loot in an ancient laboratory in my game, and I set it up where the gun has 6 shots, and laser ammo is hyper-advanced and you can't make more of it, buy more of it, and chancesof finding more of it are low (but not zero, if they find another ruin from that ancient civilization is from), so make your shots count.
You could do the same if it's from the future. Gun gets sent back in time with X amount of ammo and no "how to make more ammo" manual attached. Maybe a high- level artificer who spends enough time and resources studying the weapon can figure out how it works and craft more ammunition, but they could also fail to.
Even then though, I absolutely would *not* make that available at level 1. That's too powerful and takes away from any player without a ray gun's experience. Either straight up tell them "no, you can't have one" or "no, you can't have one yet."
RAW, artificers work by infusing magic into items though a DM could certainly allow the different types of tech to work together.
Yeah or maybe they're adapting the technology to work with an arcane power source. Or in my case, since it was created by an ancient civilization with a mastery over magic, maybe the laser gun is already a magic weapon, it just marries science and magic together to the point where it's difficult to see where one begins and the other ends.
Sorry, I didn't think far enough into your ancient laboratory context. In a system of magic with light and radiant energy, "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation" might certainly be possible. :D
Tell him he can have it *IF* he can afford one. The price is 50,000 gp.
Tell him to call you once he has raised that much money.
You are the DM. To say no, can harm the game, but that doesn't mean you have to say yes either. It's like the Element chemist refer to as Unobtainium.
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