My players are on their way to the plane of water. They are going through a vortex and totally did not think anything through and did not prepare at all for the fact that they will be underwater. I was already planning for them to encounter a large underwater metropolis with "advanced" steampunk technology that will allow them to cast spells normally. But! Before they come across the city I think that any spell with verbal components should at least have some sort of skill check to see if they can cast it correctly. Any thoughts on mechanics for miscasting?
So, a spell cast lacking a component, be it v, s, or m isn't miscast so much as not actually cast. I'm a little confused as to how the PCs aren't drowning when they enter the plane if verbal components in water is an issue.
But generally, my read is while some spells require the target to hear them (more of the effects of water as a medium through which magic is endeavored in a sec), there's no need for the verbal component to travel through a water medium in general, the caster just has to be able to say it (say if they were wearing a helmet inside which the PC can make audibles).
I'm actually running a planar hopping campaign and I'm cribbing a lot of stuff from a DMsGuild writers Codex of Infinite Planes as well as mining 2e's Planescape for ideas. On the magic front, Planescape has some ideas on how magic works on other planes that I feel are interesting, though I'm told a lot of players found them frustrating in practice (I think these would only be "fun" for players who already knew the magic system well and can thus enjoy the surprises being thrown at them). Basically, and to sort of get it into 5e terms, in Planescape, magic users need to take in for account the fact that the weave resonates differently on other planes. There are keys to learn or acquire to make magic work right, sometimes the right arcane research can prepare a spell caster, sometimes they need a local guide to learning it. Keys can be a way of "thinking" about magic on the plane (sorta freeing your mind to see the new rules) or sometimes the key is a physical thing that allows you to better access the weave on the foreign plane.
Beyond the keys, some magics over Planescape just don't work or work very differently on other planes than they do on the Prime Material. For instance, due to the architecture of the multiverse, conjuration/summoning spells despite whatever plane they're intended to draw from can only draw entities from the planes of Water, Ooze, Steam, Ice and Salt (I might even have this affect things like the nature of the drake brought forth by a Drake Warden). Spells introducing fire into an environment just don't work unless cast within a bubble, and are extinguished if they travel beyond the bubble (because, duh). An ice storm will lack the air currents making it a storm, so they've introduced a bunch of ice into the water. Lightning bolt works sort of like fire ball, in that the bolt becomes an electrical globe, but it grounds out at the first object it hits. Spells involving earth are also diminished in efficacy, but spells involving water are amplified. These elemental vs. elemental effects can't be corrected by keys per Planescape rules.
But anyway, I think the priority will be determining how the characters are supposed to thrive once they enter the Elemental Plane of Water and from there, you can bend magic, if you want to.
When someone is spellcasting for their action on a new to them plane, sometimes I'll provide an initial caveat "what does the character think is going to happen?" and allow for course correction (except on planes where thought itself is an almost elemental force in which case the PC's thought may intensify the spell or be thwarted in certain literal atmospheres of oppression and despair).
Planes are fun, and playing with magic on different planes can be sort of fun, depending on how close you're standing or floating to the consequences.
Thinking in the real world, we always used to play a game as a kid where you'd try and talk to another person underwater, then would surface and see if the other person could understand you. Sometimes it worked; often it did not, the water distorting the words too much to make out everything.
One could take this garbling into account when casting spells, resulting in the effect not working as intended (I'm thinking like the Floo Powder incident in Chamber of Secrets, where Harry sneezes and ends up in the wrong place). Some possible fun effects could be: (1) changing the damage type; (2) changing the target of the spell; (3) changing a single target spell to an area of effect spell or vice versa; (4) twinning the spell (with possibility of the twin targeting an ally); (5) having the spell fail completely. I would probably make a d100 table with a fairly high chance of casting the spell normally, then give each damage type its own number on the d100 for a transformative effect, and variable effects for some of the other effects.
Yeah, if they. have water breathing I don't know if I'd make a big issue over verbal components. I have reasons justifying this for all the spellcasters but I think they're pretty common sensical so will keep this post brief. I'd still only "complicate" spellcasting definitely when a spell requires the target hearing the caster, so dissonant whispers but it looks like the Power Word spells are line of sight. I do really like Planescapes suggestions for limiting the sorts of elemental and other forces one could bring into another elemental plane, sometimes twistng the magic. I wouldn't say "go out and buy Planescape" reprints just for this, it's the sort of thing some folks know and I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere hasn't sort of adapted the Planescape spell deviations for 5e. As a DM you have the luxury of saying the PCs connecton to magic is dilluted, so to speak, on the plane so magic may not work exactly as the caster intended and then take a license to be inconsistent (presuming the PC wants the spell to work "right" so might try slight shifts in casting to find the right key, giving you the DM more opportunity to play with magic misinterpretation).
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
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Hello!
My players are on their way to the plane of water. They are going through a vortex and totally did not think anything through and did not prepare at all for the fact that they will be underwater. I was already planning for them to encounter a large underwater metropolis with "advanced" steampunk technology that will allow them to cast spells normally. But! Before they come across the city I think that any spell with verbal components should at least have some sort of skill check to see if they can cast it correctly. Any thoughts on mechanics for miscasting?
thanks!
So, a spell cast lacking a component, be it v, s, or m isn't miscast so much as not actually cast. I'm a little confused as to how the PCs aren't drowning when they enter the plane if verbal components in water is an issue.
But generally, my read is while some spells require the target to hear them (more of the effects of water as a medium through which magic is endeavored in a sec), there's no need for the verbal component to travel through a water medium in general, the caster just has to be able to say it (say if they were wearing a helmet inside which the PC can make audibles).
I'm actually running a planar hopping campaign and I'm cribbing a lot of stuff from a DMsGuild writers Codex of Infinite Planes as well as mining 2e's Planescape for ideas. On the magic front, Planescape has some ideas on how magic works on other planes that I feel are interesting, though I'm told a lot of players found them frustrating in practice (I think these would only be "fun" for players who already knew the magic system well and can thus enjoy the surprises being thrown at them). Basically, and to sort of get it into 5e terms, in Planescape, magic users need to take in for account the fact that the weave resonates differently on other planes. There are keys to learn or acquire to make magic work right, sometimes the right arcane research can prepare a spell caster, sometimes they need a local guide to learning it. Keys can be a way of "thinking" about magic on the plane (sorta freeing your mind to see the new rules) or sometimes the key is a physical thing that allows you to better access the weave on the foreign plane.
Beyond the keys, some magics over Planescape just don't work or work very differently on other planes than they do on the Prime Material. For instance, due to the architecture of the multiverse, conjuration/summoning spells despite whatever plane they're intended to draw from can only draw entities from the planes of Water, Ooze, Steam, Ice and Salt (I might even have this affect things like the nature of the drake brought forth by a Drake Warden). Spells introducing fire into an environment just don't work unless cast within a bubble, and are extinguished if they travel beyond the bubble (because, duh). An ice storm will lack the air currents making it a storm, so they've introduced a bunch of ice into the water. Lightning bolt works sort of like fire ball, in that the bolt becomes an electrical globe, but it grounds out at the first object it hits. Spells involving earth are also diminished in efficacy, but spells involving water are amplified. These elemental vs. elemental effects can't be corrected by keys per Planescape rules.
But anyway, I think the priority will be determining how the characters are supposed to thrive once they enter the Elemental Plane of Water and from there, you can bend magic, if you want to.
When someone is spellcasting for their action on a new to them plane, sometimes I'll provide an initial caveat "what does the character think is going to happen?" and allow for course correction (except on planes where thought itself is an almost elemental force in which case the PC's thought may intensify the spell or be thwarted in certain literal atmospheres of oppression and despair).
Planes are fun, and playing with magic on different planes can be sort of fun, depending on how close you're standing or floating to the consequences.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
They did cast water breathing before going into the portal. That much they prepared. I meant more that they didn't prepare research-wise.
But those are cool thoughts!
Thinking in the real world, we always used to play a game as a kid where you'd try and talk to another person underwater, then would surface and see if the other person could understand you. Sometimes it worked; often it did not, the water distorting the words too much to make out everything.
One could take this garbling into account when casting spells, resulting in the effect not working as intended (I'm thinking like the Floo Powder incident in Chamber of Secrets, where Harry sneezes and ends up in the wrong place). Some possible fun effects could be: (1) changing the damage type; (2) changing the target of the spell; (3) changing a single target spell to an area of effect spell or vice versa; (4) twinning the spell (with possibility of the twin targeting an ally); (5) having the spell fail completely. I would probably make a d100 table with a fairly high chance of casting the spell normally, then give each damage type its own number on the d100 for a transformative effect, and variable effects for some of the other effects.
Yeah, if they. have water breathing I don't know if I'd make a big issue over verbal components. I have reasons justifying this for all the spellcasters but I think they're pretty common sensical so will keep this post brief. I'd still only "complicate" spellcasting definitely when a spell requires the target hearing the caster, so dissonant whispers but it looks like the Power Word spells are line of sight. I do really like Planescapes suggestions for limiting the sorts of elemental and other forces one could bring into another elemental plane, sometimes twistng the magic. I wouldn't say "go out and buy Planescape" reprints just for this, it's the sort of thing some folks know and I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere hasn't sort of adapted the Planescape spell deviations for 5e. As a DM you have the luxury of saying the PCs connecton to magic is dilluted, so to speak, on the plane so magic may not work exactly as the caster intended and then take a license to be inconsistent (presuming the PC wants the spell to work "right" so might try slight shifts in casting to find the right key, giving you the DM more opportunity to play with magic misinterpretation).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.