BACKGROUND: Four years ago my 8 and 10 year old boys got the D&D Starter set (LMOP). Aside from me needing to catch up on 35 years of rule changes to DM, it went relatively smoothly. But my eight year old greedily eyed the Forge of Spells as a glorious game breaking loot box. Thanks for that, really appreciate it : ) He convinced his brother that they would restart the forge and mint massively OP weapons in assembly line fashion.
I used to play AD&D back in the early 80s (so apologies in advance if I mangled the rules or the lore here), but having no idea how this *should* work, I told them that the Forge was missing "magical runes" that they had to reassemble. This gave me the ability to draw them into other campaigns, which they happily did. We play mostly on school break and the occasional weekend, so I thought this would take forever. But their laser-like focus allowed them to assemble them in about 2 years real time. Honestly I thought they would keep getting killed off and never reach the goal, but by that point their six year old sister joined in, and she has more common sense plus an interest in healing spells, whereas the boys think every NPC should be slaughtered and every spell should be Fireball. Along the way they have played some one-off campaigns, completed some larger ones like HOTDQ and they even fought Tiamat to a draw (she's still intact, but forced back through the portal minus one claw.) There they got the final rune.
Still unwilling to give them a license to print magic items at industrial scale, I told them that the magic items from the Forge of Spells wouldn't hold their power unless they were made of an alloy of.... google furiously... Adamantine! Praise the gods that's still a thing. Nearly impossible to find, I figured they would at best be able to forge a handful of weapons. They created apprentice characters to send off on a search for Adamantine from the Greypeak Mountains to the Spine of the World... in Storm King's Thunder. What could go wrong? I'll tell you what can go wrong! (besides Dad not reading this thing first.) Fire Giants are hauling off 1,000 lb Adamantine Vonindod Fragments. They don't have one, but they are closing in on the Fire Giant's lair in Ironslag. And I can see the day of reckoning is nigh. One way or another, they are going to become the Henry Ford of magic items.
HOW SHOULD I END THIS?
1. I fully expect one of my kids to hatch a plan to clear out Ironslag and set up operations there. Is that feasible? There don't seem to be that many giants to defeat with the right plan and enough time. Once they do, would they be able to hold it? Or would other fire giants come out of the woodwork and take it back? Maybe I am reading this wrong but it just seems like this is their one home in Storm King's Thunder.
2. At a minimum, they will end up with a major haul of Adamantine. Unless I throw a wrench in the works, they will restart the Forge of Spells and print away. The available wrench would be *but but but* you can't forge Adamantine unless you get the Iron Flask from Duke Zalto to make the forge hot enough, "see it says so right here!" and then let that Iron Flask slip out of their hands. But that would be cruel at this point. They have overcome so many setbacks that it seems this would be too much.
3. Either way, they seem destined to have all the pieces to start forging magic items. So how do I manage this so that it does not become game-breaking?
It's a fun problem to have, I admit. I'm watching my six year old daughter run multiple characters from paper like a pro. My boys are now 12 and 14, fully immersed in the lore, and it was a lifesaver for them during the pandemic. I just want to land this one right. I'd love to hear what you have to say.
In your shoes, I would probably do the following (listed in no particular order):
1. Once they claim a location for the forge, periodically make it so they have to hold the forge against intruders. Not only giants trying to reclaim their home, but armies, wizards, etc. It is a powerful object and you'd expect lots of people to want to claim it as theirs.
At first, this might be things the party could handle on their own--one or two curious giants or wizards who are interested. But as word spread, so would the desire to claim the forge. The party would thus need to work on developing and managing an army to defend the forge. Perhaps they gain the loyalty of the local lord by giving that lord a cut of their profits/items. Or maybe they need to hire mercenaries. This gives them a number of diplomacy quests and the like they can do and is relatively open-ended in how they could accomplish the goal.
2. You are the DM, which means you control the speed at which the forge operates. You could have the forge only churn out items at a low rate--perhaps it takes a day to make a common item, two to create an uncommon, a week for a rare, and a month for a very rare item. That way your party can keep churning out items at a constant rate, without gaining too many magic items or too much money.
3. Now that they have a massive influx of money and magical items, give them a threat that is worthy of the challenge. Maybe that challenge was born of the Spell Forge itself. Maybe the waste from the forge gives birth to some kind of destructive elemental. Or maybe the Forge draws its energy from some kind of extra-planar source, and this piercing the veil between the worlds allows some eldritch monstrosity to enter this world.
Or maybe there was an elder threat that was always going to come, but your children's characters were destined to start the forge at this particular moment because it would give them the power they needed to defeat the new big bad.
You now have an entirely new campaign--stopping this big baddie that you can run, basically allowing them to complete their goal, while also resetting the narrative and allowing them to start on a new goal.
They formed a partnership with the surviving Rockseeker brothers. The PCs provide the money, the runes, and find the adamantine. The brothers manage the operation and security.
Let them do it. Give them the win. Then have some ancient dragon decide to move in, they fight the dragon, keep the forge and live happily ever after. Then start a new campaign.
You and Xalthu below both suggested throwing more baddies, and now I can see that those baddies don't have to be Fire Giants.
I like your idea #1, that the success of the enterprise could attract more unwanted attention, and I could see that the threats could grow along with their output. If they have to hire armies or form alliances, that will put a cap on the magical insanity because they will be selling their output to pay for it. And eventually (by the time they are in high school?) I can follow suggestion #3, throw some Sauron-like villain with large armies at them, at which point they will have to arm all of the Sword Coast and beyond with magic weapons, sacrificing their hoard for the greater good. Or maybe we never get there. I like the idea of a story arc that never ends. Hoping there are rules for running army-level combat...
Along the way I can create problems that they are forced to solve with apprentices who can start on level 1 adventures (thus allowing me to rely on published campaigns). I promised my daughter we would do Wild Beyond the Witchlight.
I do not think there are rules for army-level combat as a whole. Do you think your players are going to want to be in the fray itself or do you think they are going to sit in the background issuing orders?
If the former, you can listen to their plan, decide whether their plan is sufficient to win the battle given the relative strengths of the forces (and the needs of your narrative). Then you can run the encounter like the battles those in The Iliad. Homer used the battle only as a background, while the main characters actions were described in graphic detail. You would just follow your particular players as they hack their way through the battle, periodically giving them updates like "this western line is weakening" or "your/their army is routing". Your players could then run to help the weakened part of their army/deal a more decisive blow against a retreating enemy/etc. which could have small influences on the ultimate outcome.
If your players want to play general and sit back, you could probably build an army combat simulator based on something like the Civilization games, where dice rolls are influenced by the size of the unit and whether they have a type advantage against whomever they are attacking.
I would also be careful running the premade campaigns. You should read them, take the general guideline, but also be ready to adjust them to fit inside the narrative of your particular campaigns. Personally, I think most of the adventures are mediocre-at-best and are better as an "extended look at a setting" rather than an absolute guide in terms of plot.
There’s 3rd party supplements for armies. Matt colville has a strongholds and followers supplement, and I think he’s released something recently that expands on it. I’ve heard mixed opinions, though generally positive.
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BACKGROUND: Four years ago my 8 and 10 year old boys got the D&D Starter set (LMOP). Aside from me needing to catch up on 35 years of rule changes to DM, it went relatively smoothly. But my eight year old greedily eyed the Forge of Spells as a glorious game breaking loot box. Thanks for that, really appreciate it : ) He convinced his brother that they would restart the forge and mint massively OP weapons in assembly line fashion.
I used to play AD&D back in the early 80s (so apologies in advance if I mangled the rules or the lore here), but having no idea how this *should* work, I told them that the Forge was missing "magical runes" that they had to reassemble. This gave me the ability to draw them into other campaigns, which they happily did. We play mostly on school break and the occasional weekend, so I thought this would take forever. But their laser-like focus allowed them to assemble them in about 2 years real time. Honestly I thought they would keep getting killed off and never reach the goal, but by that point their six year old sister joined in, and she has more common sense plus an interest in healing spells, whereas the boys think every NPC should be slaughtered and every spell should be Fireball. Along the way they have played some one-off campaigns, completed some larger ones like HOTDQ and they even fought Tiamat to a draw (she's still intact, but forced back through the portal minus one claw.) There they got the final rune.
Still unwilling to give them a license to print magic items at industrial scale, I told them that the magic items from the Forge of Spells wouldn't hold their power unless they were made of an alloy of.... google furiously... Adamantine! Praise the gods that's still a thing. Nearly impossible to find, I figured they would at best be able to forge a handful of weapons. They created apprentice characters to send off on a search for Adamantine from the Greypeak Mountains to the Spine of the World... in Storm King's Thunder. What could go wrong? I'll tell you what can go wrong! (besides Dad not reading this thing first.) Fire Giants are hauling off 1,000 lb Adamantine Vonindod Fragments. They don't have one, but they are closing in on the Fire Giant's lair in Ironslag. And I can see the day of reckoning is nigh. One way or another, they are going to become the Henry Ford of magic items.
HOW SHOULD I END THIS?
1. I fully expect one of my kids to hatch a plan to clear out Ironslag and set up operations there. Is that feasible? There don't seem to be that many giants to defeat with the right plan and enough time. Once they do, would they be able to hold it? Or would other fire giants come out of the woodwork and take it back? Maybe I am reading this wrong but it just seems like this is their one home in Storm King's Thunder.
2. At a minimum, they will end up with a major haul of Adamantine. Unless I throw a wrench in the works, they will restart the Forge of Spells and print away. The available wrench would be *but but but* you can't forge Adamantine unless you get the Iron Flask from Duke Zalto to make the forge hot enough, "see it says so right here!" and then let that Iron Flask slip out of their hands. But that would be cruel at this point. They have overcome so many setbacks that it seems this would be too much.
3. Either way, they seem destined to have all the pieces to start forging magic items. So how do I manage this so that it does not become game-breaking?
It's a fun problem to have, I admit. I'm watching my six year old daughter run multiple characters from paper like a pro. My boys are now 12 and 14, fully immersed in the lore, and it was a lifesaver for them during the pandemic. I just want to land this one right. I'd love to hear what you have to say.
In your shoes, I would probably do the following (listed in no particular order):
1. Once they claim a location for the forge, periodically make it so they have to hold the forge against intruders. Not only giants trying to reclaim their home, but armies, wizards, etc. It is a powerful object and you'd expect lots of people to want to claim it as theirs.
At first, this might be things the party could handle on their own--one or two curious giants or wizards who are interested. But as word spread, so would the desire to claim the forge. The party would thus need to work on developing and managing an army to defend the forge. Perhaps they gain the loyalty of the local lord by giving that lord a cut of their profits/items. Or maybe they need to hire mercenaries. This gives them a number of diplomacy quests and the like they can do and is relatively open-ended in how they could accomplish the goal.
2. You are the DM, which means you control the speed at which the forge operates. You could have the forge only churn out items at a low rate--perhaps it takes a day to make a common item, two to create an uncommon, a week for a rare, and a month for a very rare item. That way your party can keep churning out items at a constant rate, without gaining too many magic items or too much money.
3. Now that they have a massive influx of money and magical items, give them a threat that is worthy of the challenge. Maybe that challenge was born of the Spell Forge itself. Maybe the waste from the forge gives birth to some kind of destructive elemental. Or maybe the Forge draws its energy from some kind of extra-planar source, and this piercing the veil between the worlds allows some eldritch monstrosity to enter this world.
Or maybe there was an elder threat that was always going to come, but your children's characters were destined to start the forge at this particular moment because it would give them the power they needed to defeat the new big bad.
You now have an entirely new campaign--stopping this big baddie that you can run, basically allowing them to complete their goal, while also resetting the narrative and allowing them to start on a new goal.
Doesn't the forge technically belong to the Rockseer brothers?
Hi, I am not a chest. I deny with 100% certainty that I am a chest. I can neither confirm nor deny what I am beyond that.
I used to portray Krathian, Q'ilbrith, Jim, Tara, Turin, Nathan, Tench, Finn, Alvin, and other characters in various taverns.
I also do homebrew, check out my Spells and Magic Items
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons, even death may die"
They formed a partnership with the surviving Rockseeker brothers. The PCs provide the money, the runes, and find the adamantine. The brothers manage the operation and security.
Let them do it. Give them the win. Then have some ancient dragon decide to move in, they fight the dragon, keep the forge and live happily ever after. Then start a new campaign.
Good advice. Thanks!!
You and Xalthu below both suggested throwing more baddies, and now I can see that those baddies don't have to be Fire Giants.
I like your idea #1, that the success of the enterprise could attract more unwanted attention, and I could see that the threats could grow along with their output. If they have to hire armies or form alliances, that will put a cap on the magical insanity because they will be selling their output to pay for it. And eventually (by the time they are in high school?) I can follow suggestion #3, throw some Sauron-like villain with large armies at them, at which point they will have to arm all of the Sword Coast and beyond with magic weapons, sacrificing their hoard for the greater good. Or maybe we never get there. I like the idea of a story arc that never ends. Hoping there are rules for running army-level combat...
Along the way I can create problems that they are forced to solve with apprentices who can start on level 1 adventures (thus allowing me to rely on published campaigns). I promised my daughter we would do Wild Beyond the Witchlight.
I do not think there are rules for army-level combat as a whole. Do you think your players are going to want to be in the fray itself or do you think they are going to sit in the background issuing orders?
If the former, you can listen to their plan, decide whether their plan is sufficient to win the battle given the relative strengths of the forces (and the needs of your narrative). Then you can run the encounter like the battles those in The Iliad. Homer used the battle only as a background, while the main characters actions were described in graphic detail. You would just follow your particular players as they hack their way through the battle, periodically giving them updates like "this western line is weakening" or "your/their army is routing". Your players could then run to help the weakened part of their army/deal a more decisive blow against a retreating enemy/etc. which could have small influences on the ultimate outcome.
If your players want to play general and sit back, you could probably build an army combat simulator based on something like the Civilization games, where dice rolls are influenced by the size of the unit and whether they have a type advantage against whomever they are attacking.
I would also be careful running the premade campaigns. You should read them, take the general guideline, but also be ready to adjust them to fit inside the narrative of your particular campaigns. Personally, I think most of the adventures are mediocre-at-best and are better as an "extended look at a setting" rather than an absolute guide in terms of plot.
There’s 3rd party supplements for armies. Matt colville has a strongholds and followers supplement, and I think he’s released something recently that expands on it. I’ve heard mixed opinions, though generally positive.