In my campaign most of the big boss type fights are dragons, and im wondering how many missions to plan for levelling up before they hunt the first dragon.
The lowest difficulty dragons in the campaign ive planned so far are a wyvern and a homebrew sand dragon that works like a molduga from zelda.
(For reference the party is a cleric, druid, paladin, warlock, artificer, and a sorcerer, all starting at level 2)
It doesnt have to be an exact number, but i would appreciate it if i could get some almighty dm knowledge of how dangerous these encounters would be
A very rough, first glance estimate: assuming they know what they’re doing and you know what you’re doing - I’d expect six level four characters to finish a wyvern in 2-3 rounds with 1-2 casualties who can be patched up afterwards.
The problem with boss fights against parties of six is that a boss capable of being a challenge for 6 PCs is likely doing damage that will one-shot PCs and maybe twice over (for instant death). Frankly, if those six PCs can force the wyvern into melee (say, its lair is a cave) they can probably kill it at their current level. DPR for the first two rounds (at which point some characters are out of spells)
That's a potential 81 dpr, and most characters will be around 65% to hit (+5 vs AC 13) for expected DPR of around 52, which will burn through the wyvern's hit points in a hair over 2 rounds. In that time, the wyvern can use its multiattack twice, but probably has to go after the front rank (paladin, moon druid), which on average it's going to take about three rounds to get through, so the most likely outcome is dead wyvern, one front rank down, one front rank wounded, party mostly out of spells.
However, the problem here is that the wyvern's bite/sting combo has a pretty good chance of doing 46 damage. The paladin probably has 18-20 max hp, so that kills him instantly. The druid probably has 15-17 on top of 34 from the bear, so not likely -- unless it's reduced to low hit points but not immediately killed in round 1, and then hit twice in round 2.
I would say level 3 for the encounter with a wyvern. If you are having the encounter where the wyvern can hit and fly away you can limit the Paladin to a support role while the casters do the heavy lifting and probably take the brunt of the attacks. As far as a custom dragon hard to say with out seeing stat blocks, but if it's around the same stats as an adult brass dragon then I would guess the party should be around level 6 to 8 depending on how you design the encounter.
With a party of 6, the action economy of any encounter will be skewed in the party's favor. And, as has been pointed out, the monsters with a high enough CR to be a challenge to the party mathematically are deadly to a single PC. So I might remind you of the guidance in the DMG:
CHALLENGE RATING - When putting together an encounter or adventure, especially at lower levels, exercise caution when using monsters whose challenge rating is higher than the party’s average level. Such a creature might deal enough damage with a single action to take out adventurers of a lower level. For example, an ogre has a challenge rating of 2, but it can kill a 1st-level wizard with a single blow.
Your planned encounter with a wyvern will rely on a few things tactically, strategically and a whole lot on the dice. And all of the math that you do now will be undone when the first PC drops and needs the party to pick them up.
I don't really see a wyvern, definitely not a dragon, standing on the ground, going toe-to-toe with a Paladin, or Druid, or anyone. I don't envision Wyvern's being caught on the ground, unless their poisoned prey is too large for them to carry back to the nest. I might run a wyvern that would swoop in, claw(grapple) fly up ~40 ft, sting and drop. Target those with ranged attacks/weapons first, leave the heavy ones for last, they're not gonna run far enough to get away anyways.
As an aside, wyvern's aren't really the boss type in their personality or intellect. Wyvern's might be thought of as the dragon family's less intelligent, more bestial, predators. They would very likely apply hit-and-run tactics and would need no reason to stick around and fight an entire party once they have their meal in claw, so to speak. In my mind, a wyvern would make off with one party member and leave the rest for tomorrow, or the next day. To me, they are lone hunters better suited to a random encounter, an evil boss' mount or a guardian of a mountain pass or some such.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Alternatively change the stats of the dragon to make a fun and challenging encounter - reduce damage, increase health etc. You're in the position to do anything you want to the stat block.
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In my campaign most of the big boss type fights are dragons, and im wondering how many missions to plan for levelling up before they hunt the first dragon.
The lowest difficulty dragons in the campaign ive planned so far are a wyvern and a homebrew sand dragon that works like a molduga from zelda.
(For reference the party is a cleric, druid, paladin, warlock, artificer, and a sorcerer, all starting at level 2)
It doesnt have to be an exact number, but i would appreciate it if i could get some almighty dm knowledge of how dangerous these encounters would be
A very rough, first glance estimate: assuming they know what they’re doing and you know what you’re doing - I’d expect six level four characters to finish a wyvern in 2-3 rounds with 1-2 casualties who can be patched up afterwards.
The problem with boss fights against parties of six is that a boss capable of being a challenge for 6 PCs is likely doing damage that will one-shot PCs and maybe twice over (for instant death). Frankly, if those six PCs can force the wyvern into melee (say, its lair is a cave) they can probably kill it at their current level. DPR for the first two rounds (at which point some characters are out of spells)
That's a potential 81 dpr, and most characters will be around 65% to hit (+5 vs AC 13) for expected DPR of around 52, which will burn through the wyvern's hit points in a hair over 2 rounds. In that time, the wyvern can use its multiattack twice, but probably has to go after the front rank (paladin, moon druid), which on average it's going to take about three rounds to get through, so the most likely outcome is dead wyvern, one front rank down, one front rank wounded, party mostly out of spells.
However, the problem here is that the wyvern's bite/sting combo has a pretty good chance of doing 46 damage. The paladin probably has 18-20 max hp, so that kills him instantly. The druid probably has 15-17 on top of 34 from the bear, so not likely -- unless it's reduced to low hit points but not immediately killed in round 1, and then hit twice in round 2.
I would say level 3 for the encounter with a wyvern. If you are having the encounter where the wyvern can hit and fly away you can limit the Paladin to a support role while the casters do the heavy lifting and probably take the brunt of the attacks. As far as a custom dragon hard to say with out seeing stat blocks, but if it's around the same stats as an adult brass dragon then I would guess the party should be around level 6 to 8 depending on how you design the encounter.
With a party of 6, the action economy of any encounter will be skewed in the party's favor. And, as has been pointed out, the monsters with a high enough CR to be a challenge to the party mathematically are deadly to a single PC. So I might remind you of the guidance in the DMG:
Your planned encounter with a wyvern will rely on a few things tactically, strategically and a whole lot on the dice. And all of the math that you do now will be undone when the first PC drops and needs the party to pick them up.
I don't really see a wyvern, definitely not a dragon, standing on the ground, going toe-to-toe with a Paladin, or Druid, or anyone. I don't envision Wyvern's being caught on the ground, unless their poisoned prey is too large for them to carry back to the nest. I might run a wyvern that would swoop in, claw(grapple) fly up ~40 ft, sting and drop. Target those with ranged attacks/weapons first, leave the heavy ones for last, they're not gonna run far enough to get away anyways.
As an aside, wyvern's aren't really the boss type in their personality or intellect. Wyvern's might be thought of as the dragon family's less intelligent, more bestial, predators. They would very likely apply hit-and-run tactics and would need no reason to stick around and fight an entire party once they have their meal in claw, so to speak. In my mind, a wyvern would make off with one party member and leave the rest for tomorrow, or the next day. To me, they are lone hunters better suited to a random encounter, an evil boss' mount or a guardian of a mountain pass or some such.
A boss might be a dragon wyrmling, comes in at a max of CR 4, pairs easily with kobold, lizardfolk or any myriad of creatures that might consider it a deity or link to more power and authority. Of course a wyrmling doesn't have any legendary actions out of the box, but you could use Matt Colleville's - Action Oriented Monster and Mike (SlyFlourish) Shea's - Dials of Monster Difficulty to smooth out any bumps that might occur.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Alternatively change the stats of the dragon to make a fun and challenging encounter - reduce damage, increase health etc. You're in the position to do anything you want to the stat block.