Tl;dr - My players need a win. How do I make a failed resurrection not completely suck?
The party lost its cleric in a dungeon crawl. The other character that could revive him didn't have the spell prepared, so they had to long rest before they could try. It took another week to finish the dungeon, and in the interim the player decided he'd rather roll up a new character. The players will be told this at the top of the session. However, we're going to move forward with the resurrection because there is no in-character reason not to. Also...
In my universe, any resurrection attempt results in a social encounter with a god, and the players must plead their case successfully to get their friend back. Normally, this is a skill challenge; my players have gone through this a few times before, so they're primed for it. In this case, however, no matter how well the players do, their cleric isn't going to join them on their adventures anymore.
They're investing a lot of resources (diamonds, 5th level spell slot, RP) to effectively get nothing, so I want them to leave with something good and useful after this. I'm a bit at a loss for what to do. I can't give them a BBEG-slaying weapon or too much info on the BBEG for plot/mechanical reasons, and I've done the whole supernatural charm thing already. Any ideas?
Simple, don't do it because retroactive continuity the party knew that if the character died, they would prefer joining their god rather than returning to this world. You could retcon a "last words" scene if you want or your players need some role playing closure, you can do that, or have a flashback to a downtime conversation where this will and testament is expressed.
So you don't blow the slot and resources. Maybe after the adventure, the PCs deliver the character to a temple, where the deceased is made a saint or given special shrine or whatever, having achieved this deliverance, the party gets some sort of one shot divine intervention boon of some sort.
So, you're doing the supernatural charm thing again.
Spells like raise dead and resurrection do require a willing soul to work and return to the body. Maybe make it clear early in the process that this soul is not willing, so they shouldn't bother. Like they start the ritual, and they get a strong feeling that cleric does not want to come back, or the spirit of the cleric visits them and says how much they are enjoying the afterlife basking in their god's presence, and they won't be coming back, so they should stop. Save them spending the resources in the first place. Or have them all roll a DC 10 Int check (surely someone will pass it) to remember that one campfire conversation they had where the cleric had specifically said they don't want to be raised if they should ever die. Sometimes you just need a little push to allow everyone to feel less like they are meta-gaming the situation.
Because I honestly would only see bad things coming from this. I can't see why a god would be anything but annoyed at the bother of this and then have the character not be raised. Gods have a busy schedule; I'd think they would be quite put out. I'd think the only thing they'd earn would be a god less willing to listen to them in the future. I'm not sure why they get a consolation prize, sometimes things don't work out.
Assuming you want to rez the cleric and the original player is onboard, you could convert them to an NPC that retires to civilization and becomes a resource for services and information. The players get to rez their companion, you get a source to pass on important information(limited to what you decide that character knows/can learn), no overwhelming magic item to screw with balance.
MidnightPlat and Xalthu are dead right on this one.
It's all about player agency and what the player wants to do with the character. I second the idea of using a flashback to a campfire scene for the remaining party to remember how their fallen comrade would like to be remembered.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I appreciate the advice to spare them the resources and retcon some fireside chat about a DNR, but that will not suit my players at all and sidesteps my question.
My group values RP over resources, and they have been looking forward to this conversation for weeks. The god is perfectly happy interacting with mortals, and the deceased cleric is his follower. It's narratively appropriate to have a meet-cute with this deity, and is a feature of my campaign that my players enjoy. I have no intention to alter that, and my players wouldn't want me to. What I'm asking for are ideas on how to make the resource expenditure feel like an investment, or even a bittersweet win.
Resurrection spells are not guarantees in my games, and my players know this. There is plenty of player agency in this encounter because 1) they could resurrect the dead cleric with high enough rolls, and 2) they get to have a very rare, lengthy conversation with a god - and who knows what they'll say or ask for. They won't, however, get to keep the cleric as a party member. I'm starting the session with this information precisely to circumvent any frustration. It will be a surprise to the characters, but not to the players.
I do like the idea Noksa gave. The player actually asked me this afternoon if the cleric could become a knight templar. I'm on board. What I hadn't considered was the possibility of allowing him to be a source of info. Several characters have long-distance communication capabilities, so even if he's doing some holy knight business on another plane, he could provide the party with special insights. If the rez works, the characters with Sending can reach him. If the rez fails, the wizard with Contact Other Plane can.
Have the soul of the Cleric get stuck in an object during the attempted resurrection, that item is now a sentient magical item, give it properties that are in line with the former PC cleric but not over powered, give it limited communication abilities (NPC) if you want to. As for the RP aspect, some outside force (enemy of the god? )interfered during the ritual and the soul was trapped in the object. if the cleric wore a amulet/holly symbol that would be ideal, but any arcane/divine focus or item that is being used during the ritual would work.
My suggestion is that the God has need for this soul and thus can not and will not return it to them. Through their pleas and begging, the God will be moved by their commitment to a comrade and is pleased with their loyalties. Homebrew or find a fairly powerful item, maybe a one-time Rod of Resurrection, which eliminates the need for the materials and spell slot and could be used by anyone on the party. Great backup for the lost Cleric ability and a real bonus to NOT have to fret about all the intricacies of the spell you normally would.
To beef up the RP side of it, have each character be required to instill one secret to the rod to finalize it's crafting. Could also be a way for the new character to join the party, as the God has an adventurer they know who is looking for purpose and a group of such committed friends would be an ideal spot for this person.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
My suggestion is that the God has need for this soul and thus can not and will not return it to them. Through their pleas and begging, the God will be moved by their commitment to a comrade and is pleased with their loyalties. Homebrew or find a fairly powerful item, maybe a one-time Rod of Resurrection, which eliminates the need for the materials and spell slot and could be used by anyone on the party. Great backup for the lost Cleric ability and a real bonus to NOT have to fret about all the intricacies of the spell you normally would.
To beef up the RP side of it, have each character be required to instill one secret to the rod to finalize it's crafting. Could also be a way for the new character to join the party, as the God has an adventurer they know who is looking for purpose and a group of such committed friends would be an ideal spot for this person.
This. Is. Amazing. Consumable, valuable, and a poignant reminder of how they lost the cleric. 10/10. Chef's kiss.
The player has agreed to let me transform one of the cleric's prized possessions into a magic item. I think this will be a great way to honor the cleric's journey and reward the party's efforts to revive him.
I like the idea of the God saying "nope, I have need of this". As far as the resources, the deity in question could return them or provide the party with insight into a side quest to regain them and to find the replacement PC for the cleric.
This one is simple. DO NOT DO IT. You would be going against what a player wants for their PC and letting another player waste valuable resources for something that will not matter and give them nothing resulting in a bitter after taste
Spells like raise dead and resurrection do require a willing soul to work and return to the body. Maybe make it clear early in the process that this soul is not willing, so they shouldn't bother. Like they start the ritual, and they get a strong feeling that cleric does not want to come back, or the spirit of the cleric visits them and says how much they are enjoying the afterlife basking in their god's presence, and they won't be coming back, so they should stop. Save them spending the resources in the first place. Or have them all roll a DC 10 Int check (surely someone will pass it) to remember that one campfire conversation they had where the cleric had specifically said they don't want to be raised if they should ever die. Sometimes you just need a little push to allow everyone to feel less like they are meta-gaming the situation.
Because I honestly would only see bad things coming from this. I can't see why a god would be anything but annoyed at the bother of this and then have the character not be raised. Gods have a busy schedule; I'd think they would be quite put out. I'd think the only thing they'd earn would be a god less willing to listen to them in the future. I'm not sure why they get a consolation prize, sometimes things don't work out.
This one is simple. DO NOT DO IT. You would be going against what a player wants for their PC and letting another player waste valuable resources for something that will not matter and give them nothing resulting in a bitter after taste
You have clearly missed where I wrote that the player gave me permission to turn his cleric into an NPC.
The resurrection scene is not up for discussion, and everyone bringing it up is both overlooking the entire tenor of my request and woefully misunderstanding what my players value. There is zero ignoring of player desires and agency going on, here. Thank you for your concern.
This could be a cool opportunity for the players to see a little bit of how the deity in question interacts with the world and with it's followers. When they cast the spell, it doesn't work as expected, but instead they see a bit of how that deity collects souls. For example, if they are in Forgotten Realms the PCs might see the soul on the Fugue Plane and see the representative of that deity claiming the soul. Maybe they even interact with said representative. This knowledge could give them extra XP or knowledge, or set up some other cool adventure.
Have the players experience a dream sequence with the dead character sitting close to their Deity and explain to them that they are perfectly content with how their life went and that they now serve their Deity in the afterlife. They can have a poignant goodbye scene and role-play the departure.
Gods and other powerful deities give blessings to players who they feel have showed great honor or valor. If the players convince the god, but the cleric wont help them, then the god may take pity on them and give each player one, or the person they like most one (or you can stick with charm if you want to keep the PC power level pretty low).
(Blessings (I think) are in the DMG supernatural charms section.)
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
Assuming the party goes ahead (in spite of the suggestions already in the thread):
Since you have the deity conversation/RP - there is an opportunity to trade out a bit here. The god wants to keep the cleric soul for....reasons (could link into something related to the party's campaign - could be something else), but recognises the sacrifice and devotion from the group, and grants them a reward. Up to you how far you go with that, but I'd consider anything from enchanting an item carried by the party to a boon (possibly temporary)
Assuming the party goes ahead (in spite of the suggestions already in the thread):
Since you have the deity conversation/RP - there is an opportunity to trade out a bit here. The god wants to keep the cleric soul for....reasons (could link into something related to the party's campaign - could be something else), but recognises the sacrifice and devotion from the group, and grants them a reward. Up to you how far you go with that, but I'd consider anything from enchanting an item carried by the party to a boon (possibly temporary)
I like this a lot. Could be something like "Each of you may call my name one time, and have my favor for a short time." Obviously, tailor this to the domain of the deity in question.
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Tl;dr - My players need a win. How do I make a failed resurrection not completely suck?
The party lost its cleric in a dungeon crawl. The other character that could revive him didn't have the spell prepared, so they had to long rest before they could try. It took another week to finish the dungeon, and in the interim the player decided he'd rather roll up a new character. The players will be told this at the top of the session. However, we're going to move forward with the resurrection because there is no in-character reason not to. Also...
In my universe, any resurrection attempt results in a social encounter with a god, and the players must plead their case successfully to get their friend back. Normally, this is a skill challenge; my players have gone through this a few times before, so they're primed for it. In this case, however, no matter how well the players do, their cleric isn't going to join them on their adventures anymore.
They're investing a lot of resources (diamonds, 5th level spell slot, RP) to effectively get nothing, so I want them to leave with something good and useful after this. I'm a bit at a loss for what to do. I can't give them a BBEG-slaying weapon or too much info on the BBEG for plot/mechanical reasons, and I've done the whole supernatural charm thing already. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Simple, don't do it because retroactive continuity the party knew that if the character died, they would prefer joining their god rather than returning to this world. You could retcon a "last words" scene if you want or your players need some role playing closure, you can do that, or have a flashback to a downtime conversation where this will and testament is expressed.
So you don't blow the slot and resources. Maybe after the adventure, the PCs deliver the character to a temple, where the deceased is made a saint or given special shrine or whatever, having achieved this deliverance, the party gets some sort of one shot divine intervention boon of some sort.
So, you're doing the supernatural charm thing again.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Spells like raise dead and resurrection do require a willing soul to work and return to the body. Maybe make it clear early in the process that this soul is not willing, so they shouldn't bother. Like they start the ritual, and they get a strong feeling that cleric does not want to come back, or the spirit of the cleric visits them and says how much they are enjoying the afterlife basking in their god's presence, and they won't be coming back, so they should stop. Save them spending the resources in the first place. Or have them all roll a DC 10 Int check (surely someone will pass it) to remember that one campfire conversation they had where the cleric had specifically said they don't want to be raised if they should ever die. Sometimes you just need a little push to allow everyone to feel less like they are meta-gaming the situation.
Because I honestly would only see bad things coming from this. I can't see why a god would be anything but annoyed at the bother of this and then have the character not be raised. Gods have a busy schedule; I'd think they would be quite put out. I'd think the only thing they'd earn would be a god less willing to listen to them in the future. I'm not sure why they get a consolation prize, sometimes things don't work out.
Midnightplat ninja'd me by a minute. Dang.
Assuming you want to rez the cleric and the original player is onboard, you could convert them to an NPC that retires to civilization and becomes a resource for services and information. The players get to rez their companion, you get a source to pass on important information(limited to what you decide that character knows/can learn), no overwhelming magic item to screw with balance.
MidnightPlat and Xalthu are dead right on this one.
It's all about player agency and what the player wants to do with the character. I second the idea of using a flashback to a campfire scene for the remaining party to remember how their fallen comrade would like to be remembered.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I appreciate the advice to spare them the resources and retcon some fireside chat about a DNR, but that will not suit my players at all and sidesteps my question.
My group values RP over resources, and they have been looking forward to this conversation for weeks. The god is perfectly happy interacting with mortals, and the deceased cleric is his follower. It's narratively appropriate to have a meet-cute with this deity, and is a feature of my campaign that my players enjoy. I have no intention to alter that, and my players wouldn't want me to. What I'm asking for are ideas on how to make the resource expenditure feel like an investment, or even a bittersweet win.
Resurrection spells are not guarantees in my games, and my players know this. There is plenty of player agency in this encounter because 1) they could resurrect the dead cleric with high enough rolls, and 2) they get to have a very rare, lengthy conversation with a god - and who knows what they'll say or ask for. They won't, however, get to keep the cleric as a party member. I'm starting the session with this information precisely to circumvent any frustration. It will be a surprise to the characters, but not to the players.
I do like the idea Noksa gave. The player actually asked me this afternoon if the cleric could become a knight templar. I'm on board. What I hadn't considered was the possibility of allowing him to be a source of info. Several characters have long-distance communication capabilities, so even if he's doing some holy knight business on another plane, he could provide the party with special insights. If the rez works, the characters with Sending can reach him. If the rez fails, the wizard with Contact Other Plane can.
Have the soul of the Cleric get stuck in an object during the attempted resurrection, that item is now a sentient magical item, give it properties that are in line with the former PC cleric but not over powered, give it limited communication abilities (NPC) if you want to. As for the RP aspect, some outside force (enemy of the god? )interfered during the ritual and the soul was trapped in the object. if the cleric wore a amulet/holly symbol that would be ideal, but any arcane/divine focus or item that is being used during the ritual would work.
My suggestion is that the God has need for this soul and thus can not and will not return it to them. Through their pleas and begging, the God will be moved by their commitment to a comrade and is pleased with their loyalties. Homebrew or find a fairly powerful item, maybe a one-time Rod of Resurrection, which eliminates the need for the materials and spell slot and could be used by anyone on the party. Great backup for the lost Cleric ability and a real bonus to NOT have to fret about all the intricacies of the spell you normally would.
To beef up the RP side of it, have each character be required to instill one secret to the rod to finalize it's crafting. Could also be a way for the new character to join the party, as the God has an adventurer they know who is looking for purpose and a group of such committed friends would be an ideal spot for this person.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
This. Is. Amazing. Consumable, valuable, and a poignant reminder of how they lost the cleric. 10/10. Chef's kiss.
The player has agreed to let me transform one of the cleric's prized possessions into a magic item. I think this will be a great way to honor the cleric's journey and reward the party's efforts to revive him.
Thank you so much to everyone who brainstormed!
I like the idea of the God saying "nope, I have need of this". As far as the resources, the deity in question could return them or provide the party with insight into a side quest to regain them and to find the replacement PC for the cleric.
This one is simple. DO NOT DO IT. You would be going against what a player wants for their PC and letting another player waste valuable resources for something that will not matter and give them nothing resulting in a bitter after taste
Exactly this is the take
You have clearly missed where I wrote that the player gave me permission to turn his cleric into an NPC.
The resurrection scene is not up for discussion, and everyone bringing it up is both overlooking the entire tenor of my request and woefully misunderstanding what my players value. There is zero ignoring of player desires and agency going on, here. Thank you for your concern.
This could be a cool opportunity for the players to see a little bit of how the deity in question interacts with the world and with it's followers. When they cast the spell, it doesn't work as expected, but instead they see a bit of how that deity collects souls. For example, if they are in Forgotten Realms the PCs might see the soul on the Fugue Plane and see the representative of that deity claiming the soul. Maybe they even interact with said representative. This knowledge could give them extra XP or knowledge, or set up some other cool adventure.
Have the players experience a dream sequence with the dead character sitting close to their Deity and explain to them that they are perfectly content with how their life went and that they now serve their Deity in the afterlife. They can have a poignant goodbye scene and role-play the departure.
Gods and other powerful deities give blessings to players who they feel have showed great honor or valor. If the players convince the god, but the cleric wont help them, then the god may take pity on them and give each player one, or the person they like most one (or you can stick with charm if you want to keep the PC power level pretty low).
(Blessings (I think) are in the DMG supernatural charms section.)
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Assuming the party goes ahead (in spite of the suggestions already in the thread):
Since you have the deity conversation/RP - there is an opportunity to trade out a bit here. The god wants to keep the cleric soul for....reasons (could link into something related to the party's campaign - could be something else), but recognises the sacrifice and devotion from the group, and grants them a reward. Up to you how far you go with that, but I'd consider anything from enchanting an item carried by the party to a boon (possibly temporary)
I like this a lot. Could be something like "Each of you may call my name one time, and have my favor for a short time." Obviously, tailor this to the domain of the deity in question.