Wondering if anyone has tried this. I’m starting a new group and want to think about how to motivate them to make more interesting choices than just kill everything and run through a dungeon. So, money is pretty useful for gear anyway, but like how many potions can you buy before you just kinda end up hoarding gold and receiving it becomes a formality? Thats why I came on here to see if anyone had considered this and came up with a gold to xp conversion rate, explained in game as paying for training when in a town with someone able to train them. I was thinking it could cost more at each higher level, and maybe even make them do some kind of skill roll based on the trainers skill type, and if they succeed then they get the full amount of xp but if they fail they get a reduced amount. My idea is if the players value progression and they have another means of getting better without killing everything then they would be encouraged to explore every inch of a dungeon and maybe even try social or sneaky tactics to try and get more gold from enemies, like interrogate one for any secret treasure or to stalk them and see where their stash is. Maybe they wont want to fireball a dude to not melt their jewelry or whatever else valuable they have. What do y’all think? [Edit] I was thinking just now the skill roll with the trainer would make more sense if they receive more xp by failing. That way if they are higher level and try to grind out a trainer at higher levels then they wont be “learning” as much if they succeed because it would be as if they already knew what was taught, but the refresher gave them some xp anyway.
So, I am copying from Minecraft, but bottle of Exp would be a lot easier to incorporate than some gold to exp system. And if the PCs wish to level up faster have more expansive bottles with larger amounts of Exp within them.
I like that Idea! Maybe I can incorporate it into a future adventure that focuses on magic. I would find it hard to explain in their current context though. Maybe I’ll call it a Bottle of Contained Knowledge? I will consider my training thing a bit more tomorrow and if I come up with something I’ll edit this post because I love Elder Scrolls Morrowind and paying for Training in that game always felt good. Feels like investing in something long term rather than consumable or circumstantial items. I could drop my amazing unique enchanted axe and never find it again, but I can never lose my xp.
Gold for XP is how the game used to be back in the day, but, this wont stop your players running through and killing everything, it is a far easier way to get Gold drops from monsters after all, also it prevents you rewarding good roleplay, interesting game play and the party finding all those non combat clues and hints you want them to find.
I suggest you scrap the monster XP and instead just give your players XP for resolving situations, so don't say, 10 goblins that is X amount, say you got through room A you get this many XP, by the way if you had negotiated your way through you would have got na extra 100XP for roleplay. Or just scrap XP all together and switch to Milestone, I have been running Milestone leveling for years and since I started it has made my players switch approach, knowing that "killing stuff" would not help them grind to the next level. I can tell them as many times as I want that they get the same XP for bypassing a combat as they do for fighting it, but until you take away the direct reward it doesn't actually stop.
but also talk to your players, wanting to just run through a dungeon murder hoboing everything is a perfectly valid way to want to play DnD and trying to stop your players may actually reduce there own fun.
Mostly agree with what Scarloc said. Additionally, it is up to you how the campaign will be presented to the players. If you don't want them just killing stuff over and over, you have to give them situations in which killing isn't the best or only option.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I agree with your points. I considered milestones but one of them came to me saying they wanted to play because they are already into World of Warcraft and saw that the D&D looked similar, that’s when we got the group together. Hmm, yeah you are right. I should just let them be murderhobos if they came into the game expecting tabletop WoW. I was also considering dividing up xp earned per kill since they are a party of 5 but I’m thinking to myself now how important is limiting progression anyway? I just need to scale the difficulty based on their levels, and they get more fun tools to play with so maybe my concern shouldn’t be focused so much on how they earn XP, but it should be on rewarding any roleplay when they clear a scenario by any means, and I will try assigning each scenario itself a challenge rating and xp reward based on that “Experience Points by Challenge Rating” chart.
and Wysperra I will keep that in mind! I’ll come up with something that will make them use their noggins. The main thing I want to show them about D&D is the potential freedom you have to act.
I'm trying to come up with a "good formula" for EXP for two weeks now, I already opened a topic here called "EXP for RP" (maybe you could take a look there too).
BUT, after much thinking and listening to others opinions. I decided to use milestone. I will say to my players: you guys will up 1 level per 3 to 5 sessions, doesn't matter if you kill everything or just RP the entire session. This way their motivation will only be the story, they don't need to crave for killing monsters or anything, they're free to play the game without the concern of "i'm getting enought exp?"
and Wysperra I will keep that in mind! I’ll come up with something that will make them use their noggins. The main thing I want to show them about D&D is the potential freedom you have to act.
If you know of or play WoW, you'll know that many quests don't involve killing. Even those that do, in D&D you can have multiple solutions (trade for the spider silk instead of killing, befriend a spider to make silk for you, etc) and the quest givers don't have to only give a single quest. GMing is hard hard work, good on you for stepping up!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I agree with your points. I considered milestones but one of them came to me saying they wanted to play because they are already into World of Warcraft and saw that the D&D looked similar, that’s when we got the group together. Hmm, yeah you are right. I should just let them be murderhobos if they came into the game expecting tabletop WoW. I was also considering dividing up xp earned per kill since they are a party of 5 but I’m thinking to myself now how important is limiting progression anyway? I just need to scale the difficulty based on their levels, and they get more fun tools to play with so maybe my concern shouldn’t be focused so much on how they earn XP, but it should be on rewarding any roleplay when they clear a scenario by any means, and I will try assigning each scenario itself a challenge rating and xp reward based on that “Experience Points by Challenge Rating” chart.
and Wysperra I will keep that in mind! I’ll come up with something that will make them use their noggins. The main thing I want to show them about D&D is the potential freedom you have to act.
XP should be spilt between the party, if 10 goblins is 50 XP then it is 10 each.
But yes if they have come to DND from WoW then either try and recreate the game at the table (combat, cut scene, combat). Or show them that unlike a computer game there are no limitations, they can actually talk with those NPCs and do different things, try giving them some social encounters and see if they enjoy it.
I'm trying to come up with a "good formula" for EXP for two weeks now, I already opened a topic here called "EXP for RP" (maybe you could take a look there too).
BUT, after much thinking and listening to others opinions. I decided to use milestone. I will say to my players: you guys will up 1 level per 3 to 5 sessions, doesn't matter if you kill everything or just RP the entire session. This way their motivation will only be the story, they don't need to crave for killing monsters or anything, they're free to play the game without the concern of "i'm getting enought exp?"
I don’t tell my players when they are going to level, it is based off story beats. Currently we are on session 56 and they have just made level 6. (4 hour sessions once a weekish)
Yeah Milestones are sounding better every time they are brought up. I may consider that as it would be easier to manage, but I guess I should just talk to my group. I try not to bother them about game mechanics and options too much at the start because I don’t want to make the game overwhelming before even starting, especially for people who haven’t played a real campaign of it before yet but I always claimed my games will be cooperative and
Wysperra to be honest I have only played maybe a combined total of an hour of WoW and dont know much about it, other than killing little mobs and fetching items but I do know each quest is rewarding. I have GM’d in the past but these two groups im running now are gonna be the culmination of everything I’ve learned and I wanna make it feel really special to my players. I just hope I’m not trying too hard and doing the opposite. If i do go XP though I will definitely use the CR table to help out. Thanks for your encouragement! I really appreciate it.
I'm trying to come up with a "good formula" for EXP for two weeks now, I already opened a topic here called "EXP for RP" (maybe you could take a look there too).
BUT, after much thinking and listening to others opinions. I decided to use milestone. I will say to my players: you guys will up 1 level per 3 to 5 sessions, doesn't matter if you kill everything or just RP the entire session. This way their motivation will only be the story, they don't need to crave for killing monsters or anything, they're free to play the game without the concern of "i'm getting enought exp?"
I don’t tell my players when they are going to level, it is based off story beats. Currently we are on session 56 and they have just made level 6. (4 hour sessions once a weekish)
Wow that is a lot of sessions, we're at session 12 and my players are level 5 already. I wish they were not that hungry for level so we could explore more. But the DM Guide "recommends" 1 level per 2-3 sessions. It's written that 2-3 sessions would replicate what they would get from monsters, but I don't think it's true, XP from monsters alone would take MUCH more time.
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Wondering if anyone has tried this. I’m starting a new group and want to think about how to motivate them to make more interesting choices than just kill everything and run through a dungeon. So, money is pretty useful for gear anyway, but like how many potions can you buy before you just kinda end up hoarding gold and receiving it becomes a formality? Thats why I came on here to see if anyone had considered this and came up with a gold to xp conversion rate, explained in game as paying for training when in a town with someone able to train them. I was thinking it could cost more at each higher level, and maybe even make them do some kind of skill roll based on the trainers skill type, and if they succeed then they get the full amount of xp but if they fail they get a reduced amount. My idea is if the players value progression and they have another means of getting better without killing everything then they would be encouraged to explore every inch of a dungeon and maybe even try social or sneaky tactics to try and get more gold from enemies, like interrogate one for any secret treasure or to stalk them and see where their stash is. Maybe they wont want to fireball a dude to not melt their jewelry or whatever else valuable they have. What do y’all think? [Edit] I was thinking just now the skill roll with the trainer would make more sense if they receive more xp by failing. That way if they are higher level and try to grind out a trainer at higher levels then they wont be “learning” as much if they succeed because it would be as if they already knew what was taught, but the refresher gave them some xp anyway.
So, I am copying from Minecraft, but bottle of Exp would be a lot easier to incorporate than some gold to exp system. And if the PCs wish to level up faster have more expansive bottles with larger amounts of Exp within them.
Bottle of Exp - Magic Items - Homebrew - D&D Beyond (dndbeyond.com)
I like that Idea! Maybe I can incorporate it into a future adventure that focuses on magic. I would find it hard to explain in their current context though. Maybe I’ll call it a Bottle of Contained Knowledge? I will consider my training thing a bit more tomorrow and if I come up with something I’ll edit this post because I love Elder Scrolls Morrowind and paying for Training in that game always felt good. Feels like investing in something long term rather than consumable or circumstantial items. I could drop my amazing unique enchanted axe and never find it again, but I can never lose my xp.
Thats fair, glad I could help.
Gold for XP is how the game used to be back in the day, but, this wont stop your players running through and killing everything, it is a far easier way to get Gold drops from monsters after all, also it prevents you rewarding good roleplay, interesting game play and the party finding all those non combat clues and hints you want them to find.
I suggest you scrap the monster XP and instead just give your players XP for resolving situations, so don't say, 10 goblins that is X amount, say you got through room A you get this many XP, by the way if you had negotiated your way through you would have got na extra 100XP for roleplay. Or just scrap XP all together and switch to Milestone, I have been running Milestone leveling for years and since I started it has made my players switch approach, knowing that "killing stuff" would not help them grind to the next level. I can tell them as many times as I want that they get the same XP for bypassing a combat as they do for fighting it, but until you take away the direct reward it doesn't actually stop.
but also talk to your players, wanting to just run through a dungeon murder hoboing everything is a perfectly valid way to want to play DnD and trying to stop your players may actually reduce there own fun.
Mostly agree with what Scarloc said. Additionally, it is up to you how the campaign will be presented to the players. If you don't want them just killing stuff over and over, you have to give them situations in which killing isn't the best or only option.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I agree with your points. I considered milestones but one of them came to me saying they wanted to play because they are already into World of Warcraft and saw that the D&D looked similar, that’s when we got the group together. Hmm, yeah you are right. I should just let them be murderhobos if they came into the game expecting tabletop WoW. I was also considering dividing up xp earned per kill since they are a party of 5 but I’m thinking to myself now how important is limiting progression anyway? I just need to scale the difficulty based on their levels, and they get more fun tools to play with so maybe my concern shouldn’t be focused so much on how they earn XP, but it should be on rewarding any roleplay when they clear a scenario by any means, and I will try assigning each scenario itself a challenge rating and xp reward based on that “Experience Points by Challenge Rating” chart.
and Wysperra I will keep that in mind! I’ll come up with something that will make them use their noggins. The main thing I want to show them about D&D is the potential freedom you have to act.
I'm trying to come up with a "good formula" for EXP for two weeks now, I already opened a topic here called "EXP for RP" (maybe you could take a look there too).
BUT, after much thinking and listening to others opinions. I decided to use milestone. I will say to my players: you guys will up 1 level per 3 to 5 sessions, doesn't matter if you kill everything or just RP the entire session. This way their motivation will only be the story, they don't need to crave for killing monsters or anything, they're free to play the game without the concern of "i'm getting enought exp?"
If you know of or play WoW, you'll know that many quests don't involve killing. Even those that do, in D&D you can have multiple solutions (trade for the spider silk instead of killing, befriend a spider to make silk for you, etc) and the quest givers don't have to only give a single quest. GMing is hard hard work, good on you for stepping up!
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
XP should be spilt between the party, if 10 goblins is 50 XP then it is 10 each.
But yes if they have come to DND from WoW then either try and recreate the game at the table (combat, cut scene, combat). Or show them that unlike a computer game there are no limitations, they can actually talk with those NPCs and do different things, try giving them some social encounters and see if they enjoy it.
I don’t tell my players when they are going to level, it is based off story beats. Currently we are on session 56 and they have just made level 6. (4 hour sessions once a weekish)
Yeah Milestones are sounding better every time they are brought up. I may consider that as it would be easier to manage, but I guess I should just talk to my group. I try not to bother them about game mechanics and options too much at the start because I don’t want to make the game overwhelming before even starting, especially for people who haven’t played a real campaign of it before yet but I always claimed my games will be cooperative and
Wysperra to be honest I have only played maybe a combined total of an hour of WoW and dont know much about it, other than killing little mobs and fetching items but I do know each quest is rewarding. I have GM’d in the past but these two groups im running now are gonna be the culmination of everything I’ve learned and I wanna make it feel really special to my players. I just hope I’m not trying too hard and doing the opposite. If i do go XP though I will definitely use the CR table to help out. Thanks for your encouragement! I really appreciate it.
Wow that is a lot of sessions, we're at session 12 and my players are level 5 already. I wish they were not that hungry for level so we could explore more. But the DM Guide "recommends" 1 level per 2-3 sessions. It's written that 2-3 sessions would replicate what they would get from monsters, but I don't think it's true, XP from monsters alone would take MUCH more time.