Helping my nephew learn to DM, and he's running a campaign for us soon. They're 11, and really smart, but also very nervous. I showed them my collection of Adventurers Guild content, and they didn't like any of those, so I decided to buy them a pre-made campaign book. Someone suggested SKT to me and I remember that being a nightmare to run. Aside from the confusing combat scenarios, it's a lot of book keeping, and I don't want to overwhelm and ruin my DM in training's first crack at it. Any advice out there? The group is all level 3, and a mix of seasoned vets, and a few new faces. Table of 5, not counting the DM. We are all agreed to support Max in whatever they choose, and make good DM friendly choices.
So....Mad Mage, Tiamat, and Tomb of Horrors is out.
LMoP is fairly easy paced, HotDQ is pretty linear.
Could run a series of episodic one-shots to get DM in the seat without the overhead of a full campaign. Some of the easiest stuff to run are the old Thunder Rift modules from BECMI D&D, and they convert to 5e very well, IMHO. Of course, I would suggest that someone else do the conversion.
A simple homebrew of a patron assigning quests to the party would get them playing, without the big plot constantly dangling over them.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Not sure how you feel about the Spelljammer Academy, free adventure, seems pretty straightforward. There are also a goodly amount of free adventures HERE at the old Encounter of the Week Article. The Starter Set, either old or new are a good way to introduce new players to the game.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I've found Lost Mine of Phandelver pretty good. Candlekeep is also good because you can just run a single oneshot then go from there. I haven't read the other modular one (Saltmarch, Yawning portal, etc), but from what I've heard they're also good. I haven't read any of the full length adventures, but from what I've read Tyranny of dragons is pretty fun, and is easy to run and the beginning but later on requires some DM modifications to be fun, which I guess would be good for easing into DMing.
There are some good choices for running a campaign either based on single adventure books or a campaign book.
If you want to start off with something designed for new DMs then any of the starter kit adventures are likely a good choice. Lost Mines of Phandelver or Dragon of Ice Spire Peak are decent options. Both will need a little modification for starting at level 3 instead of level 1 but both have encounters for level 1 characters that can be deadly so starting a bit higher is likely fine. DoIP has a structured quest system involving "job boards" that is very accessible and easy to run (LMoP might be the same).
You can also pick up one or more of the anthologies and string the adventures together into a campaign. Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Tales from the Yawning Portal and Candlekeep Mysteries all have adventures aimed at specific levels and which are relatively easy to tie together into a narrative. GoS has its own plot and the adventures are loosely connected, TftYP is a series of dungeon style adventures but they are all pretty good. Candlekeep Mysteries has each adventure related to a book or the Candlekeep library. The advantage of stand alone adventures linked together rather than an overall campaign is that it is less work for the DM to prepare. (Radiant Citadel and the free Spelljammer adventures (short) might also be options).
The large campaigns really need the DM to read through the whole thing to have an idea of what the campaign goals are and how the pieces fit together so that the adventure has some coherence ... that can be a challenge for many DMs but particularly new ones. So I would lean towards a small intro campaign or anthologies in this type of case most of the time.
Other than that, Tomb of Annihilation is good but it is a big sandbox, Out of the Abyss might be interesting (it is pretty huge but the beginning and setting are pretty cool. The main problem is it starts the characters off as prisoners with nothing which might not work for level 3 characters who already have stuff they like), Waterdeep: Dragon Heist is good starter adventure also but it only goes to level 5 or so and you are already level 3, I don't have any experience Wild Beyond the Witchlight but it might be good, Rime of the Frost Maiden is a large scale campaign but seems to be reasonably structured so that a new DM could run it without having to read everything, however, RotFM does jump between chapters a bit so it will require reading through at least chapter 4 to see how the first half is supposed to fit together. Chapter 5 and beyond, the DM needs to keep an eye on player motivations since it is possible to complete one of the major quests in chapter 5 which, if the DM hasn't set it up so that the players have additional objectives, could leave them feeling like they have finished the adventure.
However, if you want a longer campaign then Rime of the Frost Maiden might be a good choice.
So I took a look at Salt Marsh, and I agree that it's simple for an adult to play and manage, but I'm honestly concerned about an 11 year old managing all the bits and bobs of that sort of adventure. I'm heavily leaning towards just homebrewing a campaign, but I don't want to take the agency away from an aspiring DM. I like Mines of Phandelver, but it's based around level 1-3. Throwing a bunch of level 3s into it would be rough.
Allow me to make a few more codicils:
1. Attention span - can we have encounters limited to under 3 baddies, or 1 amorphous mob that counts as 1 creature? I feel like throwing them into the deep end of the stat/initiative tracker pool is a surefire way to create a negative experience.
2. Are there good oneshots that don't require a TON of expository dialogue? They are a strong reader, but again, if he's reading for the entire 3 hour session, he's not learning to DM. I looked at candlekeep, and it's fun, but requires a lot of back story to fill in the WHY.
3. Aside from Beyonds encounter tracker, is there any advice on how I can help them run an encounter without too much difficulty?
4. Am I overthinking this? I know he is a really smart 11 but I don't want this to totally sour him. I don't want to dump the guide on him with a set of dice, a pencil and paper, and a screen, and say go for it. Should I cater this DOWN, or let him have it full force, and see if he enjoys it and help him where I can?
1. Attention span - can we have encounters limited to under 3 baddies, or 1 amorphous mob that counts as 1 creature? I feel like throwing them into the deep end of the stat/initiative tracker pool is a surefire way to create a negative experience.
2. Are there good oneshots that don't require a TON of expository dialogue? They are a strong reader, but again, if he's reading for the entire 3 hour session, he's not learning to DM. I looked at candlekeep, and it's fun, but requires a lot of back story to fill in the WHY.
3. Aside from Beyonds encounter tracker, is there any advice on how I can help them run an encounter without too much difficulty?
4. Am I overthinking this? I know he is a really smart 11 but I don't want this to totally sour him. I don't want to dump the guide on him with a set of dice, a pencil and paper, and a screen, and say go for it. Should I cater this DOWN, or let him have it full force, and see if he enjoys it and help him where I can?
FWIW, if one of your concerns is trying to balance an encounter with level 3 PCs, why not start at level 1. The advancement from 1 to 3 is fairly quick, and it opens up more options that are maybe a better fit for a new DM, regardless of them being 11 years old.
IMO, this is an even better reason to run an episodic quest campaign. One, maybe two combat encounters, some exploration and some social encounters and the session is over. No need to bridge the gap with continued plot lines. Everybody sits down, and one by one, tells what their PC did with the gold they earned during the time that passed, roll some downtime stuff, move onto the next fetch quest or whatever. Put some of the heavy lifting on the more seasoned people, and let him see that other people are actually supporting the game.
DMs Guild and Drive-Thru RPG have some decent stuff for free or PWYW. There are some folks, like Dyson's Logos that publish maps that are fairly good for location quests that just need to be filled with mobs and loot, and then run.
If I don't use the Beyond Tracker, I just use a notebook and hand track it how it's comfortable and quick to me. Dealer's choice.
Maybe a bit. The only way to find out is to let them try. Main reason why I would suggest you start with a single encounter is: Moldvay Red-Box Set. Starts of with rolling a PC, and immediately running a small dungeon. Walks the DM and the players through how to do all of the things, combat, skills, socials... all of it. One session worth of "Everybody learns together." We don't have that readily available now, but if you happen to have it, or remember it, you'll recognize the same approach with the Starter Set.
I might suggest that you let him choose the direction, but you do a portion of the heavy lifting, until he gets comfortable with it all. I would also suggest that you spend some time assisting with (guiding him through) the prep of the sessions so he understands all of the things before game day. Let him direct the show, he has to learn how to lead. Teach him how to do all of the little things that allow him to perform well in an environment that won't be embarrassing and scary. Coach and mentor more than instruct, know what I mean?
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
My suggestion, run all of this by them and let them choose. They know what they want to do better than guessing. I've known 11 year olds more organized and order-minded than I am at almost 40, equally I've known some who'd lose interest after 1 round of combat.
Explain to them the options and your worries and hopes and let them pick something.
My personal suggestion is using a few of the Encounter of the Week encounters as they are easy, simple, and memorable, which will get them feeling good about running before tackling something big.
If initiative is too much, let one of the players keep track of it. If there are other issues they'd have (maps, minis, etc) let someone else worry about those so that Max only has to worry about running the game.
I have confidence you'll find something fun that works for everyone, communication and effort to enjoy yourselves will see to it. Good luck and have fun!
So I took a look at Salt Marsh, and I agree that it's simple for an adult to play and manage, but I'm honestly concerned about an 11 year old managing all the bits and bobs of that sort of adventure. I'm heavily leaning towards just homebrewing a campaign, but I don't want to take the agency away from an aspiring DM. I like Mines of Phandelver, but it's based around level 1-3. Throwing a bunch of level 3s into it would be rough.
Allow me to make a few more codicils:
1. Attention span - can we have encounters limited to under 3 baddies, or 1 amorphous mob that counts as 1 creature? I feel like throwing them into the deep end of the stat/initiative tracker pool is a surefire way to create a negative experience.
2. Are there good oneshots that don't require a TON of expository dialogue? They are a strong reader, but again, if he's reading for the entire 3 hour session, he's not learning to DM. I looked at candlekeep, and it's fun, but requires a lot of back story to fill in the WHY.
3. Aside from Beyonds encounter tracker, is there any advice on how I can help them run an encounter without too much difficulty?
4. Am I overthinking this? I know he is a really smart 11 but I don't want this to totally sour him. I don't want to dump the guide on him with a set of dice, a pencil and paper, and a screen, and say go for it. Should I cater this DOWN, or let him have it full force, and see if he enjoys it and help him where I can?
1. Yes.
2. Probably. (though you should explain that most of the reading happens before the session :) ). As for backstory, it only needs as much or as little as the players want, I started to run Candlekeep for a group and just had them all be a members of a club at the library that enjoyed mysteries and solving puzzles. Lots of different backgrounds, some were orphans taken on by the library, someone else worked as cleaning staff, another was an apprentice librarian, I think someone was a visitor who just had not moved on yet - it didn't really matter - placing the characters in a group at the library makes most of the stories in that book immediately accessible - very little character backstory was actually required to justify it - and I would not expect that much backstory development from a less experienced DM anyway).
3. Online you can use a VTT. In person, I've seen lots of methods for tracking initiative - none too onerous.
-Character names written on clothes pegs clipped to a vertical stand. DM just arranges them in order (and noted the numbers separately in case a creature shows up later and needs to be slotted in.
- Each player fills out a little card with AC/Important passive skills. The card has a fold and the DM just put them in order along the top of the DM screen so he can see relevant stats easily and can track initiative order from the order of the cards. (The cards were laminated and used dry erase markers so they were easy to change).
- Cards or tokens that the DM lays on the table in order to define the initiative order.
- Each player gets a number in front of them - but this gets a bit tougher to add creatures later.
- DM gets a player to keep track of initiative and call the next player for their turn.
In terms of faster turns, have each player think about what they want to do before their turn gets there. For characters with attacks (and enough dice) roll all of the attacks and damage at the same time. (e.g. extra attack - use color coordinated d20 and damage dice - roll all the dice at once - if the creature happens to go down on the first attack the player can move and apply the second attack to another creature - this is particularly important for characters that have minions and thus more dice to roll - you want to keep the turns moving).
4. A bit. I played in a 13 year olds home brew campaign a couple years ago. A mix of adults and kids. They leveled up pretty much every session or two and by the time I joined it was level 15 or so ... lots of inexperienced players but everyone was having fun. Combats tended towards the one big bad guy trope with maybe one or two minions but it worked fine. With an 11 year old running it maybe let THEM come up with a plot line - don't expect anything fancy/political/complicated though they might surprise you. I wouldn't homebrew something for them though, I'd tend to go with a published module or let them come up with an idea though feel free to suggest some things - they could base it on their favorite movie for example. Monsters Inc could make a great basis for a D&D campaign for example.
Finally, if they are going to be running it ... then I'd ask them how they want to run it and see what their ideas are. If they have played enough then they probably have a decent idea of the DMs role.
Helping my nephew learn to DM, and he's running a campaign for us soon. They're 11, and really smart, but also very nervous. I showed them my collection of Adventurers Guild content, and they didn't like any of those, so I decided to buy them a pre-made campaign book. Someone suggested SKT to me and I remember that being a nightmare to run. Aside from the confusing combat scenarios, it's a lot of book keeping, and I don't want to overwhelm and ruin my DM in training's first crack at it. Any advice out there? The group is all level 3, and a mix of seasoned vets, and a few new faces. Table of 5, not counting the DM. We are all agreed to support Max in whatever they choose, and make good DM friendly choices.
So....Mad Mage, Tiamat, and Tomb of Horrors is out.
Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated!
LMoP is fairly easy paced, HotDQ is pretty linear.
Could run a series of episodic one-shots to get DM in the seat without the overhead of a full campaign. Some of the easiest stuff to run are the old Thunder Rift modules from BECMI D&D, and they convert to 5e very well, IMHO. Of course, I would suggest that someone else do the conversion.
A simple homebrew of a patron assigning quests to the party would get them playing, without the big plot constantly dangling over them.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Not sure how you feel about the Spelljammer Academy, free adventure, seems pretty straightforward. There are also a goodly amount of free adventures HERE at the old Encounter of the Week Article. The Starter Set, either old or new are a good way to introduce new players to the game.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I've found Lost Mine of Phandelver pretty good. Candlekeep is also good because you can just run a single oneshot then go from there. I haven't read the other modular one (Saltmarch, Yawning portal, etc), but from what I've heard they're also good. I haven't read any of the full length adventures, but from what I've read Tyranny of dragons is pretty fun, and is easy to run and the beginning but later on requires some DM modifications to be fun, which I guess would be good for easing into DMing.
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
There are some good choices for running a campaign either based on single adventure books or a campaign book.
If you want to start off with something designed for new DMs then any of the starter kit adventures are likely a good choice. Lost Mines of Phandelver or Dragon of Ice Spire Peak are decent options. Both will need a little modification for starting at level 3 instead of level 1 but both have encounters for level 1 characters that can be deadly so starting a bit higher is likely fine. DoIP has a structured quest system involving "job boards" that is very accessible and easy to run (LMoP might be the same).
You can also pick up one or more of the anthologies and string the adventures together into a campaign. Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Tales from the Yawning Portal and Candlekeep Mysteries all have adventures aimed at specific levels and which are relatively easy to tie together into a narrative. GoS has its own plot and the adventures are loosely connected, TftYP is a series of dungeon style adventures but they are all pretty good. Candlekeep Mysteries has each adventure related to a book or the Candlekeep library. The advantage of stand alone adventures linked together rather than an overall campaign is that it is less work for the DM to prepare. (Radiant Citadel and the free Spelljammer adventures (short) might also be options).
The large campaigns really need the DM to read through the whole thing to have an idea of what the campaign goals are and how the pieces fit together so that the adventure has some coherence ... that can be a challenge for many DMs but particularly new ones. So I would lean towards a small intro campaign or anthologies in this type of case most of the time.
Other than that, Tomb of Annihilation is good but it is a big sandbox, Out of the Abyss might be interesting (it is pretty huge but the beginning and setting are pretty cool. The main problem is it starts the characters off as prisoners with nothing which might not work for level 3 characters who already have stuff they like), Waterdeep: Dragon Heist is good starter adventure also but it only goes to level 5 or so and you are already level 3, I don't have any experience Wild Beyond the Witchlight but it might be good, Rime of the Frost Maiden is a large scale campaign but seems to be reasonably structured so that a new DM could run it without having to read everything, however, RotFM does jump between chapters a bit so it will require reading through at least chapter 4 to see how the first half is supposed to fit together. Chapter 5 and beyond, the DM needs to keep an eye on player motivations since it is possible to complete one of the major quests in chapter 5 which, if the DM hasn't set it up so that the players have additional objectives, could leave them feeling like they have finished the adventure.
However, if you want a longer campaign then Rime of the Frost Maiden might be a good choice.
So I took a look at Salt Marsh, and I agree that it's simple for an adult to play and manage, but I'm honestly concerned about an 11 year old managing all the bits and bobs of that sort of adventure. I'm heavily leaning towards just homebrewing a campaign, but I don't want to take the agency away from an aspiring DM. I like Mines of Phandelver, but it's based around level 1-3. Throwing a bunch of level 3s into it would be rough.
Allow me to make a few more codicils:
1. Attention span - can we have encounters limited to under 3 baddies, or 1 amorphous mob that counts as 1 creature? I feel like throwing them into the deep end of the stat/initiative tracker pool is a surefire way to create a negative experience.
2. Are there good oneshots that don't require a TON of expository dialogue? They are a strong reader, but again, if he's reading for the entire 3 hour session, he's not learning to DM. I looked at candlekeep, and it's fun, but requires a lot of back story to fill in the WHY.
3. Aside from Beyonds encounter tracker, is there any advice on how I can help them run an encounter without too much difficulty?
4. Am I overthinking this? I know he is a really smart 11 but I don't want this to totally sour him. I don't want to dump the guide on him with a set of dice, a pencil and paper, and a screen, and say go for it. Should I cater this DOWN, or let him have it full force, and see if he enjoys it and help him where I can?
FWIW, if one of your concerns is trying to balance an encounter with level 3 PCs, why not start at level 1. The advancement from 1 to 3 is fairly quick, and it opens up more options that are maybe a better fit for a new DM, regardless of them being 11 years old.
I might suggest that you let him choose the direction, but you do a portion of the heavy lifting, until he gets comfortable with it all. I would also suggest that you spend some time assisting with (guiding him through) the prep of the sessions so he understands all of the things before game day. Let him direct the show, he has to learn how to lead. Teach him how to do all of the little things that allow him to perform well in an environment that won't be embarrassing and scary. Coach and mentor more than instruct, know what I mean?
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
My suggestion, run all of this by them and let them choose. They know what they want to do better than guessing. I've known 11 year olds more organized and order-minded than I am at almost 40, equally I've known some who'd lose interest after 1 round of combat.
Explain to them the options and your worries and hopes and let them pick something.
My personal suggestion is using a few of the Encounter of the Week encounters as they are easy, simple, and memorable, which will get them feeling good about running before tackling something big.
If initiative is too much, let one of the players keep track of it. If there are other issues they'd have (maps, minis, etc) let someone else worry about those so that Max only has to worry about running the game.
I have confidence you'll find something fun that works for everyone, communication and effort to enjoy yourselves will see to it. Good luck and have fun!
1. Yes.
2. Probably. (though you should explain that most of the reading happens before the session :) ). As for backstory, it only needs as much or as little as the players want, I started to run Candlekeep for a group and just had them all be a members of a club at the library that enjoyed mysteries and solving puzzles. Lots of different backgrounds, some were orphans taken on by the library, someone else worked as cleaning staff, another was an apprentice librarian, I think someone was a visitor who just had not moved on yet - it didn't really matter - placing the characters in a group at the library makes most of the stories in that book immediately accessible - very little character backstory was actually required to justify it - and I would not expect that much backstory development from a less experienced DM anyway).
3. Online you can use a VTT. In person, I've seen lots of methods for tracking initiative - none too onerous.
-Character names written on clothes pegs clipped to a vertical stand. DM just arranges them in order (and noted the numbers separately in case a creature shows up later and needs to be slotted in.
- Each player fills out a little card with AC/Important passive skills. The card has a fold and the DM just put them in order along the top of the DM screen so he can see relevant stats easily and can track initiative order from the order of the cards. (The cards were laminated and used dry erase markers so they were easy to change).
- Cards or tokens that the DM lays on the table in order to define the initiative order.
- Each player gets a number in front of them - but this gets a bit tougher to add creatures later.
- DM gets a player to keep track of initiative and call the next player for their turn.
In terms of faster turns, have each player think about what they want to do before their turn gets there. For characters with attacks (and enough dice) roll all of the attacks and damage at the same time. (e.g. extra attack - use color coordinated d20 and damage dice - roll all the dice at once - if the creature happens to go down on the first attack the player can move and apply the second attack to another creature - this is particularly important for characters that have minions and thus more dice to roll - you want to keep the turns moving).
4. A bit. I played in a 13 year olds home brew campaign a couple years ago. A mix of adults and kids. They leveled up pretty much every session or two and by the time I joined it was level 15 or so ... lots of inexperienced players but everyone was having fun. Combats tended towards the one big bad guy trope with maybe one or two minions but it worked fine. With an 11 year old running it maybe let THEM come up with a plot line - don't expect anything fancy/political/complicated though they might surprise you. I wouldn't homebrew something for them though, I'd tend to go with a published module or let them come up with an idea though feel free to suggest some things - they could base it on their favorite movie for example. Monsters Inc could make a great basis for a D&D campaign for example.
Finally, if they are going to be running it ... then I'd ask them how they want to run it and see what their ideas are. If they have played enough then they probably have a decent idea of the DMs role.