I have a party of 3 relatively new lvl 4 players that have, for all intents and purposes, become terrorists.
I know that's an interesting opener, but essentially they got kind of involved in a sort of non-human civil outreach group in a city that's incredibly prejudiced towards non-humans. This outreach group runs a soup kitchen, an apothecary, and does a lot of good for their community of non-humans.
Somehow, my players heard this and came up with a plan to blow up a harbor to create a distraction so the bard can raid the city's garrison for weapons (they didn't give me a reason as to why they were stealing weapons other than 'to save them for later'), and the rogue was going to sneak into the capital building to steal... something pertaining to - hopefully - a famine that hit the non-humans really hard a couple decades ago. She has done next to no recon on who has that information or where it's kept in the capital. The sorcerer did the demolition.
The session ended with the rogue getting a lot of monetarily valuable items, but because they did next to no recon on the capital prior to sneaking in they went to the wrong wing. They encountered someone *pretty* important, but because they didn't ask the question they just think he's some old guy in bed with his old wife. The sorcerer wild magic surged when they tried to cast invisibility on themselves to sneakily light black powder on fire, and ended up vaporizing 20 people and a cat. The bard didn't end up going to the garrison and getting any weapons- they just left and are somewhere in the city right now.
This is so far off the rails that I don't know how to bring it back to the main line of the adventure. This isn't even remotely close to what the main story is about; just a couple weeks ago they witnessed a demonic possession and a massacred village that was a result of said possessed person, but they seem to have completely forgotten about that.
I don't want to railroad my players, hence why I let this play out. I attempted to nudge them away from this course of action but they flat-out ignored it/didn't get the hints. But, now I have to essentially organize and coordinate a city on lockdown after events that killed a whole bunch of people... all for nothing. They didn't get anything valuable. They put the civil outreach group on the wrong people's radar. The city had a history of being incredibly prejudiced towards non-humans, but was slowly getting better. This completely sets all of that way, way back. The bard actually ended up ruining a relationship with an NPC because they argued with them so hard about how they were trying to keep their daughter safe by screaming a (in this world) slur at her in front of a crowd of angry, frightened humans. I've already had a coming to jesus talk with that player.
I don't know how to handle this. They think the session went swimmingly, meanwhile I'm freaking out about how much this whole string of events can change what's happening in the world on a much broader scale and in such a way that has ~zero~ to do with the main campaign storyline. I can think of ways to spin political intrigue into the campaign, but this isn't intended to be Game of Thrones. It's nowhere close. This is just supposed to be about accidentally discovering a means of planar travel and a lost civilization.
I just had another Session Zero with these guys two sessions ago with the addition of the bard to the table. I've had multiple one on one conversations with the people behind the PCs about key notes they might want to work on (the rogue utilizing Stealth in combat, the sorcerer not letting their real-world attitude infect their PC and how they treat the rogue [who is their real life wife], etc etc). These are people still learning the dynamics of the game, and how to play. But, they're also grown adults that don't seem to want to listen.
Talk to them. Explain to them exactly what you want from the campaign and how their current actions are upsetting you OOC. Hopefully this will be enough to convince them to change. If not, you may wanna think about getting some new players (since they refuse to change and it sounds like the game is no longer fun for you).
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
So, your players have basically said that they find the idea of being freedom fighters against the oppression of minorities to be more interesting than whatever else they perceive as going on. They've also made a hash of it, as can be expected -- most people don't know how to run a political movement, whether it be peaceful or violent, and D&D encourages the use of violence.
Like it or not, this is what the campaign's about now, at least in the short term. If you really don't want to or don't feel up to running that, you are allowed to end the game. Your fun matters, too.
I don't see any good way to get things moving back to what you were planning, so I'm going to give suggestions for if you want to run with it.
In future, be wary of having the one campaign plot; it can very easily go awry. I'm a fan of throwing plot hooks at the players, and developing the ones they bite on. (I suspect that this is what the players thought they were doing.) Another approach is to get explicit buy-in from the players on what the game is going to be about.
There must be people who are attempting to change this society, both peacefully and by force. If you're familiar with the X-Men, think Professor X vs Magneto. Your players have said that they want to work with Magneto. (Note that your Magneto-equivalent does not have to be an outright villain.) They have also established that they're loose cannons, but powerful enough to be useful.
I would have somebody working for Magneto rescue them, get them out of the city, give them a firm yelling-to. ("Suppose you had succeeded? Then what? Did you have a plan, or did you just think you'd be heroes and everything would be better? Revolution is a tough, messy, business, and acting without thinking is just going to make things worse." Then have them bundle the party off on some out-of-town mission.
One of the unwritten purposes of said mission is to see if they can be trusted at all. This also establishes a boss figure who can give them jobs to do, instead of letting them try to make plans on their own. If they do well, they get more jobs. If they don't... honestly, I haven't a clue.
Don't give in to the temptation of immediately tying this back into your planned storyline. Even if the situation was already actually, explicitly connected in your plans. If it's really something that makes sense to hook into the revolution, let it lie for a while, and come at it from a different direction than you initially introduced it.
My first question would be what are you finding "wrong" about it? If the behaviour that the players are demonstrating through their characters is a problem then you need to chat with the players about the kind of game you want to run. You don't like the content or the direction it is going and there is no way to correct that without an open and honest chat with the players regarding what you'd like to get from the game.
However, my impression is that isn't the problem. The issue seems to be that they aren't following the campaign concept that you designed and setup in the first place, they are doing something else. This actually doesn't need to be a problem as long as you and the players are having a good time. You also don't need to discard your previous plot line if you don't want to, you can just tie it into whatever is going on now. Keep in mind that the players know nothing more than what you have told them. There are an infinite number of ways that those pieces can fit together.
It sounds like the players wanted to be fighters for the downtrodden (or terrorists if looked at from the position of those running the society). However, they seem to be doing a particularly poor job. They didn't loot any weapons and they didn't find whatever information they were looking for. They have only caused a lot of chaos.
However, what ties those events back to either the players or the non-human community? As you said, the position of the non-humans has been improving so unless the player characters were yelling out "Down with the Humans" during their escapades, there could well be many other explanations for the events. In addition, the non-humans might be just as anxious to see the perpetrators of these crimes brought to justice especially if they have started earning some acceptance in the society.
Another aspect to the situation, you mentioned a village killed by demonic possession. Doesn't killing 20 people and a cat as a result of an explosion sound like something a demon might do? One would think that the authorities are also aware of the demon issue and the destruction of a village. They are likely trying to keep the information contained to prevent a mass panic. However, now there have been incidents in the city that could be attributable to the demon issue as well. Demons also love chaos and a number of activities that simply seem chaotic - no weapons taken, no information or even point or motivation for roaming the capital building - also have a demonic taint.
As an even more interesting twist, if the players continue to play chaotically, you could have them start seeing visions and perhaps the characters come to the realization that their chaotic and violent actions weren't just role playing but a demonic influence from their exposure at the village that even the players weren't aware of :) ... they just happened to be role playing it perfectly thinking it was completely normal :) .. not sure how well that might go over though.
The point is that because you are the DM, the story can make whatever twists and turns you decide would be possible and fun. It doesn't have to follow the story you decided on when you designed it in the first place. The player actions can not only have a logical impact on the world you created but can inspire the DM to adjust the world so that the player actions have more interesting and fun consequences.
Campaigns never survive their first encounter with players. :)
Keep in mind you can always get back to your demonic person and massacred village story. This could be a delay at worst. Or maybe what they are doing can be tied in? Sounds like they are not favored by the non-human rights group or the city right now. They might need to get out of town to lie low and also to find a way to redeem themselves. What if the possessed person goes someplace else and tries to destroy another village? Could defeating him give them some credibility with the non-human group?
On the plus side - you clearly have engaged and creative players who take the game into their own hands and actively shape the story. That might sound a bit facetious given your description, but it does indicate that you have a group of engaged players that aren't just waiting for you to introduce the next piece of the rail! Part of that will evidently also be your DM'ing - it might have gone off the rails, but you have evidently still managed to keep them interested in the game - so just to say it isn't all bad :)
Now might be a time to look up chase scenes and mob combat by the sound of it. You mentioned massacring a whole village. blowing up 20 people. However, I am having a little bit of trouble separating out what was actually part of the campaign or info you gave them - and what "just happened". E.g. you mention that the rogue is attempting to steal ..something that seems to be linked to wider lore. So is that part of the campaign, or how did it come about?
Parties not gathering intel on the optimised route that was carefully planned for is not at all that unusual - at least not in my experience. As DM's we're equipped with the information that makes choices obvious - but the party does not have that information until it is relayed to them. I tend to flex a bit between complete free-form. Describing a place the party has arrived, and then sit back with an "over to you" moment, but also switch over to more guided scenes where there is a critical path in an adventure. Sometimes those guided scenes are almost cringingly obvious, and we actually laugh at it around the table, because the players recognise the pointer. Most of the time however, they go with it, because they are interested in progressing the story and want to know what comes next. Sometimes they enjoy that freeform chaotic session where they just interact with random townspeople and get into funnny/bizzare situations.
However, I think it sounds like your group slightly thinks themselves above the law and to be near invincible, and I think that might be the point you want to address in this situation. Their actions are done - now it is time to face the consequences of having a huge part of the city on the hunt for you. It sounds like the party is split across the city, which will make it even worse since each of them might find themselves in serious trouble. However, maybe that non-human soup kitchen organisation runs a bit deeper and can help them escape before the mages of justice send out their hunters. Maybe they even recover the body of one of the team who didn't make it out, but get the resurrected in time to continue.
I know that's a lot of extra stuff, but if you want to attempt to course correct the campaign, now is the time when you need to invest prep time into those consequences rather than giving them an easy ride - otherwise it will happen again...and again.
In future, be wary of having the one campaign plot; it can very easily go awry. I'm a fan of throwing plot hooks at the players, and developing the ones they bite on. (I suspect that this is what the players thought they were doing.) Another approach is to get explicit buy-in from the players on what the game is going to be about.
...
I would have somebody working for Magneto rescue them, get them out of the city, give them a firm yelling-to. ("Suppose you had succeeded? Then what? Did you have a plan, or did you just think you'd be heroes and everything would be better? Revolution is a tough, messy, business, and acting without thinking is just going to make things worse." Then have them bundle the party off on some out-of-town mission.
One of the unwritten purposes of said mission is to see if they can be trusted at all. This also establishes a boss figure who can give them jobs to do, instead of letting them try to make plans on their own. If they do well, they get more jobs. If they don't... honestly, I haven't a clue.
This whole civil rights group thing was one of the classic "I don't need to name the barkeep!" situations. I briefly mentioned a pamphlet hanging on a job board in a non-human neighborhood when they walked up to it looking for hints on the demonic possession. They latched onto it and would not - and I mean would NOT - let it go, despite how many times I said "It's just a support gathering of second citizens helping each other out."
I do like your thoughts on the Magneto situation, though I don't know if it would work as I've already tried it. Basically 2 of the characters - the bard and two NPCs - ran to the apothecary that's run by one of the members of the outreach group. She laid into them and essentially said the same thing to the bard and they got huffy and left.
...you can just tie it into whatever is going on now. ...
I wish I had a mind to think of a way to do that. But alas, I am on forums asking for advice on just that.
Can't figure out how to quote you multiple times sooooo
"However, what ties those events back to either the players or the non-human community? "
Absolutely nothing. One NPC that's been involved with the party casts disguise self on themselves whenever they go out in public, and is otherwise veiled. Long story on that but basically no one would recognize them. The other two PCs - the rogue and the sorcerer - essentially stealthed themselves and got away. The sorcerer successfully blew up the harbor without anyone seeing them (and living).
"As you said, the position of the non-humans has been improving so unless the player characters were yelling out "Down with the Humans" during their escapades, "
They did. Before they snuck off they definitely did. So, there's that.
" However, now there have been incidents in the city that could be attributable to the demon issue as well. Demons also love chaos and a number of activities that simply seem chaotic - no weapons taken, no information or even point or motivation for roaming the capital building - also have a demonic taint."
Thaaaat is something that I can try to tie in to the immediate aftermath. Basically the current Duke has been trying to fix/improve the whole discrimination thing so he can totally make a city-wide announcement about this. I'd have to spin the human citizens' reaction to be more accepting of the news, but this might work.
Thank you guys for your input and suggestions! I'm feeling slightly less anxious about how to proceed with this. I generally don't enjoy political overtones in anything meant to be a form of escapism, so this is well out of my wheelhouse in terms of how to make this work. Hopefully I can ride this little tangent out, let them have their fun, and we can wander back to the main stream of things and I can figure out a way to have this not break the world as a whole without saying "Everything is peace and rainbows and no one is upset or suspicious about what happened yaaaayyy!"
It should be really easy to tie your story and their adventures together - they created chaos, and chaos breeds opportunity for malfeasance. It is very likely there will be a reaction against your party’s actions - and blowing up a harbour and such will bring about a draconian crackdown, not just on your party, but there will certainly be hardliners who want to push for crackdowns on all non-humans. That, in turn, can inspire the non-humans to react against the hardliners, creating a cycle of escalation and chaos.
Your BBEG can take advantage of that - by playing one side (or both) and forcing strife, they can turn your players’ chaos into their advantage.
The question then becomes how to move your party from the city to the lost civilisation and become more interested in portals. I do not know what your current plan was, but here is how I would likely pivot. The portal magic requires souls, which requires death. The massacre of the town was an experiment, allowing a small portal to open. The civil war and bloodshed that would likely spiral from your party’s actions would be utilised by the BBEG to hasten their plans as there would suddenly be a lot of death they can tap, the portal to the lost civilisation opening much earlier in your campaign than initially intended (decisions have consequences after all). Your party is sucked through the portal and away from the city - putting them both back into your campaign and away from the temptation of their city. You could bring along a few others from the city, so their “humans and non humans” conflict is still present in the lost world, but now they have to figure out how to make the small enclave work together, despite their hatred, to survive in the strange new land.
Never prepare a story that you expect the players to follow. You can have major story beats in the works to try to move towards, but even that is tough. You'll be disappointed at the 'problem players' every time if you want them to do what you write down. My advice, like probably most above me, is to re-brand your campaign into the freedom fighting story that the party wants it to be.
Also, what wild magic surge vaporizes 20 people? Unless they were in a very crowded area when they somehow rolled fireball - if so, that's just plumb unlucky.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Also, what wild magic surge vaporizes 20 people? Unless they were in a very crowded area when they somehow rolled fireball - if so, that's just plumb unlucky.
I modified wild magic surge so I wouldn't have to deal with a d100 table, and because my character's backstory basically called for something like this. Essentially, once they sling a spell that hits, they roll a d20. If they get a nat 1, they magically explode (10ft radius). They happened to be casting in the middle of a crowded theater lobby. Given their level and how much they had already cast that night, they threw 4d6 for damage that totaled 17. I had given theater-goers the Cultist stat block for 9hp, 12ac, and ability scores. Of the 35 people immediately surrounding the PC, 57% failed the dex save. The rest got half damage.
It was a bad night, and was indeed very, very unlucky. This was the first time they had ever surged, and it happened twice that session (that's when the cat got hit). They managed to make it through 12 sessions and 6 combat encounters without surging, so they had that?
So, sounds like the party wanted to be Batman, but ended up as a clown-car full of Jokers instead.
"The sorcerer wild magic surged when they tried to cast invisibility on themselves to sneakily light black powder on fire, and ended up vaporizing 20 people and a cat."
Ain't gonna lie, that sentence right there made me chuckle pretty hard.
I'm normally one to advocate for frank, out of game discussions with your players when stuff like this comes up, but it sounds like you already did that, well done.
Having done so though and observed no change in player behavior, it seems like they're telling you that this is the type of game they'd prefer to play. If you actively think you will not have fun playing this game, it might just be time to wrap up that campaign and ask if anyone else wants to DM, or just retire the plot you're using and save it for another party.
If neither of those options sound good to you, then you'll need to play along with them a little. They're looking for a more open-world, player-driven experience, and to roll with that, you're actually going to want to plan less. Focus on developing plot threads and hooks as the players are discovering them, using the week between sessions to flesh out the things the players got started last session as a way to lay the track before the train, as it were. When preparing multiple different hooks without knowing which they'll go for, don't plan the whole things in advance; rather, plan out each hook and then maybe the first one or two encounters associated with them, that way if the players pass then you haven't wasted much effort.
And this doesn't have to mean that your plot is over. Player consequences can be a very important part of player choice, since choice can be rendered meaningless if there's no meaningful difference between choices. Think of your main plot from the villain's point of view; what is their plan? What step of the plan did you as the DM assume the players would meddle in and interrupt? What happens to the world now that they didn't?? You can use passive storytelling techniques to show that while the players are pursuing their own goals, bad things continue to happen to the world at an increasing rate. Maybe trade from some of the outer towns the city they're in gets its food from dries up completely, nobody knows why the trade caravans stopped coming but now the city has a food shortage on its hands. Maybe rumors of war reach the players from not *that* far off. Maybe rumor has it that demonic possession is on the rise and people are flocking to the temples for protection, always clutching some temple charm or medallion for protection, suddenly wary of outsiders as any could be a demon in disguise. Maybe people don't go out at night anymore out of fear. The taverns once filled with music and raucous laughter, now quiet and filled with those drinking to dispel their anxieties about the future. Let the characters notice these changes around the city and see that this is happening and make the connection that this is happening due to some rising evil in the world, and as it starts to encroach on their own happy-go-murder lifestyle, it might pique their curiosity enough for them to stumble back into the main quest. If done right, this should make the world begin to feel real for them and in need of protecting, if before it was just their personal playground.
Long story short, either the game will need to change, or you need to change how you're running the game. Either choice is valid and your fun still matters, so choose the one that is best for the group including you. No dnd is better than bad dnd, hope some of the suggestions above help!
No crying over spilled milk - blame the demons (how else could the foyer have exploded thusly), have the ruler start sending out "the religious police" seeking out witches and demon worshippers etc. If the party is still behaving like anarchists then have them (incentivize them to) free the oppressed, only to find out that several of those freed actually are possessed by/in cahoots with demons. In essence - roll with it and for the love of everything good about D&D don't railroad them into a plot they find boring/uninteresting. Instead twist it until they bite the hook
If the party got away with it without being seen, then perhaps roll some bluffing into it for them:
They aren't the only ones who know about the demonic massacre of the other village ,and as said above, this chaos might be related to these things. The rulers of the city have heard that an adventuring party has arrived fm that village, and seeks them out. When they arrive, they are asked if they can investigate the explosion, and see if it's linked to the demons. Also say that if it is linked to the demons, they want ideas on how to stop the demons.
The party thus gets offered a convenient scapegoat, and is redirected that they were looking for stuff about demonic possession. They also get a chance to talk to the leader/s, who might tell them about their plans to improve non-human rights, which may alleviate their concerns about the non-humans somewhat.
Being mistaken as people who can help might get them out of this mess. If they decide to take the leader hostage or something ludicrous like that, rmeind them that level 4 is not going to get them out alive. Realistic consequences can include character death, especially when powerful rulers are involved!
Thank you guys for your input and suggestions! I'm feeling slightly less anxious about how to proceed with this. I generally don't enjoy political overtones in anything meant to be a form of escapism, so this is well out of my wheelhouse in terms of how to make this work. Hopefully I can ride this little tangent out, let them have their fun, and we can wander back to the main stream of things and I can figure out a way to have this not break the world as a whole without saying "Everything is peace and rainbows and no one is upset or suspicious about what happened yaaaayyy!"
I completely understand what you mean about escapism. I don’t like things in DND that remind me too much about the real world either. If this is a direction you really don’t like seeing in the game, I think you may need another session 0. A lot of times, we talk about player’s boundaries with topics, but the DM’s are just as important. For example, I don’t like fire. I’m mostly okay with it, but if my players started setting the villain’s house on fire to defeat them, I’d need to have a talk with them, because that’s not a game that’s fun or comfortable for me.
If this campaign type is something that makes you uncomfortable, talk to the players, and come up with a way to avoid the uncomfortable topic together. If they don’t listen, then maybe a pause in this campaign would be best.
If you’re ok with the topic, then ignore this, and listen to everyone else.
I read/skimmed through the comments here. Some good advice going. When your players want to do crazy things like that then it should be a challenge. Let them do it, or at least try to, but have some consequences for their actions. If you have an end goal for your game then there is no need to worry about it. You can bring it to them in one way or another. Dont railroad them. At least dont make it appear so anyway. There is nothing wrong with the freedom but what they do can or should trigger other events or present questing opportunities. You can change things to adjust to them and how they play. Keep some extra stuff around just in case they do this. This way you are prepared to some degree. Some encounters for example. Another suggestion is that with information that your players may need while adventuring. Dont tie it to one NPC in your world if you dont have to. This way you can toss it at them by some other means. I know it can be frustrating when players do this. Just have some stuff on hand for when it happens.
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Hello all!
I have a party of 3 relatively new lvl 4 players that have, for all intents and purposes, become terrorists.
I know that's an interesting opener, but essentially they got kind of involved in a sort of non-human civil outreach group in a city that's incredibly prejudiced towards non-humans. This outreach group runs a soup kitchen, an apothecary, and does a lot of good for their community of non-humans.
Somehow, my players heard this and came up with a plan to blow up a harbor to create a distraction so the bard can raid the city's garrison for weapons (they didn't give me a reason as to why they were stealing weapons other than 'to save them for later'), and the rogue was going to sneak into the capital building to steal... something pertaining to - hopefully - a famine that hit the non-humans really hard a couple decades ago. She has done next to no recon on who has that information or where it's kept in the capital. The sorcerer did the demolition.
The session ended with the rogue getting a lot of monetarily valuable items, but because they did next to no recon on the capital prior to sneaking in they went to the wrong wing. They encountered someone *pretty* important, but because they didn't ask the question they just think he's some old guy in bed with his old wife. The sorcerer wild magic surged when they tried to cast invisibility on themselves to sneakily light black powder on fire, and ended up vaporizing 20 people and a cat. The bard didn't end up going to the garrison and getting any weapons- they just left and are somewhere in the city right now.
This is so far off the rails that I don't know how to bring it back to the main line of the adventure. This isn't even remotely close to what the main story is about; just a couple weeks ago they witnessed a demonic possession and a massacred village that was a result of said possessed person, but they seem to have completely forgotten about that.
I don't want to railroad my players, hence why I let this play out. I attempted to nudge them away from this course of action but they flat-out ignored it/didn't get the hints. But, now I have to essentially organize and coordinate a city on lockdown after events that killed a whole bunch of people... all for nothing. They didn't get anything valuable. They put the civil outreach group on the wrong people's radar. The city had a history of being incredibly prejudiced towards non-humans, but was slowly getting better. This completely sets all of that way, way back. The bard actually ended up ruining a relationship with an NPC because they argued with them so hard about how they were trying to keep their daughter safe by screaming a (in this world) slur at her in front of a crowd of angry, frightened humans. I've already had a coming to jesus talk with that player.
I don't know how to handle this. They think the session went swimmingly, meanwhile I'm freaking out about how much this whole string of events can change what's happening in the world on a much broader scale and in such a way that has ~zero~ to do with the main campaign storyline. I can think of ways to spin political intrigue into the campaign, but this isn't intended to be Game of Thrones. It's nowhere close. This is just supposed to be about accidentally discovering a means of planar travel and a lost civilization.
I just had another Session Zero with these guys two sessions ago with the addition of the bard to the table. I've had multiple one on one conversations with the people behind the PCs about key notes they might want to work on (the rogue utilizing Stealth in combat, the sorcerer not letting their real-world attitude infect their PC and how they treat the rogue [who is their real life wife], etc etc). These are people still learning the dynamics of the game, and how to play. But, they're also grown adults that don't seem to want to listen.
I have no idea what to do. >_<;;
Talk to them. Explain to them exactly what you want from the campaign and how their current actions are upsetting you OOC. Hopefully this will be enough to convince them to change. If not, you may wanna think about getting some new players (since they refuse to change and it sounds like the game is no longer fun for you).
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
So, your players have basically said that they find the idea of being freedom fighters against the oppression of minorities to be more interesting than whatever else they perceive as going on. They've also made a hash of it, as can be expected -- most people don't know how to run a political movement, whether it be peaceful or violent, and D&D encourages the use of violence.
Like it or not, this is what the campaign's about now, at least in the short term. If you really don't want to or don't feel up to running that, you are allowed to end the game. Your fun matters, too.
I don't see any good way to get things moving back to what you were planning, so I'm going to give suggestions for if you want to run with it.
In future, be wary of having the one campaign plot; it can very easily go awry. I'm a fan of throwing plot hooks at the players, and developing the ones they bite on. (I suspect that this is what the players thought they were doing.) Another approach is to get explicit buy-in from the players on what the game is going to be about.
There must be people who are attempting to change this society, both peacefully and by force. If you're familiar with the X-Men, think Professor X vs Magneto. Your players have said that they want to work with Magneto. (Note that your Magneto-equivalent does not have to be an outright villain.) They have also established that they're loose cannons, but powerful enough to be useful.
I would have somebody working for Magneto rescue them, get them out of the city, give them a firm yelling-to. ("Suppose you had succeeded? Then what? Did you have a plan, or did you just think you'd be heroes and everything would be better? Revolution is a tough, messy, business, and acting without thinking is just going to make things worse." Then have them bundle the party off on some out-of-town mission.
One of the unwritten purposes of said mission is to see if they can be trusted at all. This also establishes a boss figure who can give them jobs to do, instead of letting them try to make plans on their own. If they do well, they get more jobs. If they don't... honestly, I haven't a clue.
Don't give in to the temptation of immediately tying this back into your planned storyline. Even if the situation was already actually, explicitly connected in your plans. If it's really something that makes sense to hook into the revolution, let it lie for a while, and come at it from a different direction than you initially introduced it.
My first question would be what are you finding "wrong" about it? If the behaviour that the players are demonstrating through their characters is a problem then you need to chat with the players about the kind of game you want to run. You don't like the content or the direction it is going and there is no way to correct that without an open and honest chat with the players regarding what you'd like to get from the game.
However, my impression is that isn't the problem. The issue seems to be that they aren't following the campaign concept that you designed and setup in the first place, they are doing something else. This actually doesn't need to be a problem as long as you and the players are having a good time. You also don't need to discard your previous plot line if you don't want to, you can just tie it into whatever is going on now. Keep in mind that the players know nothing more than what you have told them. There are an infinite number of ways that those pieces can fit together.
It sounds like the players wanted to be fighters for the downtrodden (or terrorists if looked at from the position of those running the society). However, they seem to be doing a particularly poor job. They didn't loot any weapons and they didn't find whatever information they were looking for. They have only caused a lot of chaos.
However, what ties those events back to either the players or the non-human community? As you said, the position of the non-humans has been improving so unless the player characters were yelling out "Down with the Humans" during their escapades, there could well be many other explanations for the events. In addition, the non-humans might be just as anxious to see the perpetrators of these crimes brought to justice especially if they have started earning some acceptance in the society.
Another aspect to the situation, you mentioned a village killed by demonic possession. Doesn't killing 20 people and a cat as a result of an explosion sound like something a demon might do? One would think that the authorities are also aware of the demon issue and the destruction of a village. They are likely trying to keep the information contained to prevent a mass panic. However, now there have been incidents in the city that could be attributable to the demon issue as well. Demons also love chaos and a number of activities that simply seem chaotic - no weapons taken, no information or even point or motivation for roaming the capital building - also have a demonic taint.
As an even more interesting twist, if the players continue to play chaotically, you could have them start seeing visions and perhaps the characters come to the realization that their chaotic and violent actions weren't just role playing but a demonic influence from their exposure at the village that even the players weren't aware of :) ... they just happened to be role playing it perfectly thinking it was completely normal :) .. not sure how well that might go over though.
The point is that because you are the DM, the story can make whatever twists and turns you decide would be possible and fun. It doesn't have to follow the story you decided on when you designed it in the first place. The player actions can not only have a logical impact on the world you created but can inspire the DM to adjust the world so that the player actions have more interesting and fun consequences.
Campaigns never survive their first encounter with players. :)
Keep in mind you can always get back to your demonic person and massacred village story. This could be a delay at worst. Or maybe what they are doing can be tied in? Sounds like they are not favored by the non-human rights group or the city right now. They might need to get out of town to lie low and also to find a way to redeem themselves. What if the possessed person goes someplace else and tries to destroy another village? Could defeating him give them some credibility with the non-human group?
On the plus side - you clearly have engaged and creative players who take the game into their own hands and actively shape the story. That might sound a bit facetious given your description, but it does indicate that you have a group of engaged players that aren't just waiting for you to introduce the next piece of the rail! Part of that will evidently also be your DM'ing - it might have gone off the rails, but you have evidently still managed to keep them interested in the game - so just to say it isn't all bad :)
Now might be a time to look up chase scenes and mob combat by the sound of it. You mentioned massacring a whole village. blowing up 20 people. However, I am having a little bit of trouble separating out what was actually part of the campaign or info you gave them - and what "just happened". E.g. you mention that the rogue is attempting to steal ..something that seems to be linked to wider lore. So is that part of the campaign, or how did it come about?
Parties not gathering intel on the optimised route that was carefully planned for is not at all that unusual - at least not in my experience. As DM's we're equipped with the information that makes choices obvious - but the party does not have that information until it is relayed to them. I tend to flex a bit between complete free-form. Describing a place the party has arrived, and then sit back with an "over to you" moment, but also switch over to more guided scenes where there is a critical path in an adventure. Sometimes those guided scenes are almost cringingly obvious, and we actually laugh at it around the table, because the players recognise the pointer. Most of the time however, they go with it, because they are interested in progressing the story and want to know what comes next. Sometimes they enjoy that freeform chaotic session where they just interact with random townspeople and get into funnny/bizzare situations.
However, I think it sounds like your group slightly thinks themselves above the law and to be near invincible, and I think that might be the point you want to address in this situation. Their actions are done - now it is time to face the consequences of having a huge part of the city on the hunt for you. It sounds like the party is split across the city, which will make it even worse since each of them might find themselves in serious trouble. However, maybe that non-human soup kitchen organisation runs a bit deeper and can help them escape before the mages of justice send out their hunters. Maybe they even recover the body of one of the team who didn't make it out, but get the resurrected in time to continue.
I know that's a lot of extra stuff, but if you want to attempt to course correct the campaign, now is the time when you need to invest prep time into those consequences rather than giving them an easy ride - otherwise it will happen again...and again.
This whole civil rights group thing was one of the classic "I don't need to name the barkeep!" situations. I briefly mentioned a pamphlet hanging on a job board in a non-human neighborhood when they walked up to it looking for hints on the demonic possession. They latched onto it and would not - and I mean would NOT - let it go, despite how many times I said "It's just a support gathering of second citizens helping each other out."
I do like your thoughts on the Magneto situation, though I don't know if it would work as I've already tried it. Basically 2 of the characters - the bard and two NPCs - ran to the apothecary that's run by one of the members of the outreach group. She laid into them and essentially said the same thing to the bard and they got huffy and left.
I wish I had a mind to think of a way to do that. But alas, I am on forums asking for advice on just that.
Can't figure out how to quote you multiple times sooooo
"However, what ties those events back to either the players or the non-human community? "
Absolutely nothing. One NPC that's been involved with the party casts disguise self on themselves whenever they go out in public, and is otherwise veiled. Long story on that but basically no one would recognize them. The other two PCs - the rogue and the sorcerer - essentially stealthed themselves and got away. The sorcerer successfully blew up the harbor without anyone seeing them (and living).
"As you said, the position of the non-humans has been improving so unless the player characters were yelling out "Down with the Humans" during their escapades, "
They did. Before they snuck off they definitely did. So, there's that.
" However, now there have been incidents in the city that could be attributable to the demon issue as well. Demons also love chaos and a number of activities that simply seem chaotic - no weapons taken, no information or even point or motivation for roaming the capital building - also have a demonic taint."
Thaaaat is something that I can try to tie in to the immediate aftermath. Basically the current Duke has been trying to fix/improve the whole discrimination thing so he can totally make a city-wide announcement about this. I'd have to spin the human citizens' reaction to be more accepting of the news, but this might work.
Thank you guys for your input and suggestions! I'm feeling slightly less anxious about how to proceed with this. I generally don't enjoy political overtones in anything meant to be a form of escapism, so this is well out of my wheelhouse in terms of how to make this work. Hopefully I can ride this little tangent out, let them have their fun, and we can wander back to the main stream of things and I can figure out a way to have this not break the world as a whole without saying "Everything is peace and rainbows and no one is upset or suspicious about what happened yaaaayyy!"
It should be really easy to tie your story and their adventures together - they created chaos, and chaos breeds opportunity for malfeasance. It is very likely there will be a reaction against your party’s actions - and blowing up a harbour and such will bring about a draconian crackdown, not just on your party, but there will certainly be hardliners who want to push for crackdowns on all non-humans. That, in turn, can inspire the non-humans to react against the hardliners, creating a cycle of escalation and chaos.
Your BBEG can take advantage of that - by playing one side (or both) and forcing strife, they can turn your players’ chaos into their advantage.
The question then becomes how to move your party from the city to the lost civilisation and become more interested in portals. I do not know what your current plan was, but here is how I would likely pivot. The portal magic requires souls, which requires death. The massacre of the town was an experiment, allowing a small portal to open. The civil war and bloodshed that would likely spiral from your party’s actions would be utilised by the BBEG to hasten their plans as there would suddenly be a lot of death they can tap, the portal to the lost civilisation opening much earlier in your campaign than initially intended (decisions have consequences after all). Your party is sucked through the portal and away from the city - putting them both back into your campaign and away from the temptation of their city. You could bring along a few others from the city, so their “humans and non humans” conflict is still present in the lost world, but now they have to figure out how to make the small enclave work together, despite their hatred, to survive in the strange new land.
Never prepare a story that you expect the players to follow. You can have major story beats in the works to try to move towards, but even that is tough. You'll be disappointed at the 'problem players' every time if you want them to do what you write down. My advice, like probably most above me, is to re-brand your campaign into the freedom fighting story that the party wants it to be.
Also, what wild magic surge vaporizes 20 people? Unless they were in a very crowded area when they somehow rolled fireball - if so, that's just plumb unlucky.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I modified wild magic surge so I wouldn't have to deal with a d100 table, and because my character's backstory basically called for something like this. Essentially, once they sling a spell that hits, they roll a d20. If they get a nat 1, they magically explode (10ft radius). They happened to be casting in the middle of a crowded theater lobby. Given their level and how much they had already cast that night, they threw 4d6 for damage that totaled 17. I had given theater-goers the Cultist stat block for 9hp, 12ac, and ability scores. Of the 35 people immediately surrounding the PC, 57% failed the dex save. The rest got half damage.
It was a bad night, and was indeed very, very unlucky. This was the first time they had ever surged, and it happened twice that session (that's when the cat got hit). They managed to make it through 12 sessions and 6 combat encounters without surging, so they had that?
So, sounds like the party wanted to be Batman, but ended up as a clown-car full of Jokers instead.
"The sorcerer wild magic surged when they tried to cast invisibility on themselves to sneakily light black powder on fire, and ended up vaporizing 20 people and a cat."
Ain't gonna lie, that sentence right there made me chuckle pretty hard.
I'm normally one to advocate for frank, out of game discussions with your players when stuff like this comes up, but it sounds like you already did that, well done.
Having done so though and observed no change in player behavior, it seems like they're telling you that this is the type of game they'd prefer to play. If you actively think you will not have fun playing this game, it might just be time to wrap up that campaign and ask if anyone else wants to DM, or just retire the plot you're using and save it for another party.
If neither of those options sound good to you, then you'll need to play along with them a little. They're looking for a more open-world, player-driven experience, and to roll with that, you're actually going to want to plan less. Focus on developing plot threads and hooks as the players are discovering them, using the week between sessions to flesh out the things the players got started last session as a way to lay the track before the train, as it were. When preparing multiple different hooks without knowing which they'll go for, don't plan the whole things in advance; rather, plan out each hook and then maybe the first one or two encounters associated with them, that way if the players pass then you haven't wasted much effort.
And this doesn't have to mean that your plot is over. Player consequences can be a very important part of player choice, since choice can be rendered meaningless if there's no meaningful difference between choices. Think of your main plot from the villain's point of view; what is their plan? What step of the plan did you as the DM assume the players would meddle in and interrupt? What happens to the world now that they didn't?? You can use passive storytelling techniques to show that while the players are pursuing their own goals, bad things continue to happen to the world at an increasing rate. Maybe trade from some of the outer towns the city they're in gets its food from dries up completely, nobody knows why the trade caravans stopped coming but now the city has a food shortage on its hands. Maybe rumors of war reach the players from not *that* far off. Maybe rumor has it that demonic possession is on the rise and people are flocking to the temples for protection, always clutching some temple charm or medallion for protection, suddenly wary of outsiders as any could be a demon in disguise. Maybe people don't go out at night anymore out of fear. The taverns once filled with music and raucous laughter, now quiet and filled with those drinking to dispel their anxieties about the future. Let the characters notice these changes around the city and see that this is happening and make the connection that this is happening due to some rising evil in the world, and as it starts to encroach on their own happy-go-murder lifestyle, it might pique their curiosity enough for them to stumble back into the main quest. If done right, this should make the world begin to feel real for them and in need of protecting, if before it was just their personal playground.
Long story short, either the game will need to change, or you need to change how you're running the game. Either choice is valid and your fun still matters, so choose the one that is best for the group including you. No dnd is better than bad dnd, hope some of the suggestions above help!
No crying over spilled milk - blame the demons (how else could the foyer have exploded thusly), have the ruler start sending out "the religious police" seeking out witches and demon worshippers etc. If the party is still behaving like anarchists then have them (incentivize them to) free the oppressed, only to find out that several of those freed actually are possessed by/in cahoots with demons. In essence - roll with it and for the love of everything good about D&D don't railroad them into a plot they find boring/uninteresting. Instead twist it until they bite the hook
If the party got away with it without being seen, then perhaps roll some bluffing into it for them:
They aren't the only ones who know about the demonic massacre of the other village ,and as said above, this chaos might be related to these things. The rulers of the city have heard that an adventuring party has arrived fm that village, and seeks them out. When they arrive, they are asked if they can investigate the explosion, and see if it's linked to the demons. Also say that if it is linked to the demons, they want ideas on how to stop the demons.
The party thus gets offered a convenient scapegoat, and is redirected that they were looking for stuff about demonic possession. They also get a chance to talk to the leader/s, who might tell them about their plans to improve non-human rights, which may alleviate their concerns about the non-humans somewhat.
Being mistaken as people who can help might get them out of this mess. If they decide to take the leader hostage or something ludicrous like that, rmeind them that level 4 is not going to get them out alive. Realistic consequences can include character death, especially when powerful rulers are involved!
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I completely understand what you mean about escapism. I don’t like things in DND that remind me too much about the real world either. If this is a direction you really don’t like seeing in the game, I think you may need another session 0. A lot of times, we talk about player’s boundaries with topics, but the DM’s are just as important. For example, I don’t like fire. I’m mostly okay with it, but if my players started setting the villain’s house on fire to defeat them, I’d need to have a talk with them, because that’s not a game that’s fun or comfortable for me.
If this campaign type is something that makes you uncomfortable, talk to the players, and come up with a way to avoid the uncomfortable topic together. If they don’t listen, then maybe a pause in this campaign would be best.
If you’re ok with the topic, then ignore this, and listen to everyone else.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
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I read/skimmed through the comments here. Some good advice going. When your players want to do crazy things like that then it should be a challenge. Let them do it, or at least try to, but have some consequences for their actions. If you have an end goal for your game then there is no need to worry about it. You can bring it to them in one way or another. Dont railroad them. At least dont make it appear so anyway. There is nothing wrong with the freedom but what they do can or should trigger other events or present questing opportunities. You can change things to adjust to them and how they play. Keep some extra stuff around just in case they do this. This way you are prepared to some degree. Some encounters for example. Another suggestion is that with information that your players may need while adventuring. Dont tie it to one NPC in your world if you dont have to. This way you can toss it at them by some other means. I know it can be frustrating when players do this. Just have some stuff on hand for when it happens.