I have 5 (possibly 6 players as a 6th is joining after our last session). The party consists of (All level 2 currently), Bard, Barbarian, Ranger, Druid, Cleric, with the 6th being a Rogue. They are in the Redbrand Hideout (which they think is the wave echo cave) and just rescued Mirna Dendrar and her children from the Slave Pens. Instead of just escorting them out, they escorted them back to town and decided to rest for the rest of the evening. Most of my players are new players (and I'm also a new DM). I want them to learn from this that the world is a living breathing world, that things don't just stop while they aren't there.
My plan is to have the Redbrands attack them while they are sleeping, but I don't want to TPK them. They are staying 2 to a room with Sildar being in one of the rooms with them currently. The rogue that is joining will be another friend of Sildar to help search for Irano in Phandalin. I want to make the encounter challenging, but I don't want to kill them. I have already drawn up a map (4 rooms 20'x20' that they will be staying in 3 of the rooms).
My other plan is to have Glassstaff be gone but show up later in the story because he is already alerted that people were in the hideout (you just can't kill people and walk away). When they return there will be some basic traps in the cave (secret entrance is what they found), plus a few extra guards as well.
Help this new DM out please!
Thanks! Edit: I've added the session notes I wrote up after the last session we had.
Session 3 (22MAR18)
After the party dispatched of the 4 Redbrand Thugs in the middle of Phandadlin, a rotund older human came running up to them yelling at them to find out what they were doing. He explained that the thugs were just a band of mercenaries and were going to be heading on their way soon. The party ignored this man (Which they found out was the Mayor), picked up the thugs and carried them back up the hill toward Tresendar Manor. They found their way back in via the underground tunnel and bargained with the Nothic, who was not happy that he was brought dead things. The party learned that this Nothic wanted "fresh meat" as in alive to play with before he fed. The Nothic was satisfied with a new deal to bring a plaything to him. The party ventured north and found a secret door that led to a crypt. After walking into the room 3 skeletons were animated and attacked. After quickly dispatching the skeletons they headed to the double brass doors to the south and did not find anything of use besides a dusty, not traveled hallway about 50 ft in length. Turning around back into the crypt and headed to the north-east door of the crypt, Verrona without checking for anything opened the door and was met with an arrow to the shoulder. Tre put one of the Redbrands asleep while Tealus and Aldin dispatched the two remaining guards to the room. Upon entering, the group found three very scared humans, one older lady and two young children. After tying up the sleeping guard, Verrona attempted to pick the lock to the iron bars. She was barely able to pick the lock and they conversed with the woman, learning that she was the Wife of Thel the woodcarver who was killed in town a few days ago. She let the group know of a rare pendant in the South East portion in Thundertree. The band then escorted the prisoners out of the pens and to the exit. Afterwords they tossed their prisoner guard to the Nothic to keep their end of the deal. The Nothic then sensed that Tealus had a play thing in his backpack and negotiated another deal with just Tealus. Upon throwing a rat that he had captured previously to the Nothic, it disappeared in a puff of arcane smoke when it was eaten. Thinking it had been tricked, but Tealus convinced him that he was also tricked and promised to bring another rat to him in exchange for information about anyone coming and going. The party then decided to head back into town to rest up and gather supplies before exploring the rest of the underground hideout.
Your instincts are spot on in how you'd like to approach this, and any of your options would work just fine. However, since you're playing with a table of newer people I'd offer to not deviate too strongly from the story, improvising something too deep into the story may cause unforeseen mishaps.
Your idea about the Redbrands retaliating is perfect. In response you have the hideout on high alert, and replace the killed Redbrands with some new red shirts. The secret entrance is blocked, trapped, highly guarded, or any combination there in. Toss out a squad of Redbrands to punish the town, 4-6 of them spread out about the town seems like a good annoyance. Make sure they can see an unnamed NPC or two suffer for the player's actions, it's right in line with Glassstaff's approach to things. The only thing to be careful of is it may set a precedence, your players may adopt the idea in their heads that they must finish a "dungeon" before leaving to rest. Try not to make the town they retreat to suffer too often.
Glassstaff can be handled in two ways and again your idea is sound. I'd take it slightly further, have him gone, abandon this place for a time. Let the players hear one of the Redbrand mention that Glassstaff put him in charge, have a letter penned and interrupted expressing his desire to wait this little coup out in a safer place, or just have one of the dieing Redbrand exclaim that "you'll never catch him". Then, because you've got a good deal of material left, pick a key location further into the story to have him lounging at when the players stumble across secret base number 2. There's also, the idea that you could have him just go completely berserk and when the players return to the hideout he's on the warpath and anticipating the players. They enter into a room only to find him and half a dozen Redbrand standing there planning a full on assault on the town...
The only thing to be careful of is it may set a precedence, your players may adopt the idea in their heads that they must finish a "dungeon" before leaving to rest. Try not to make the town they retreat to suffer too often.
I Do worry about that, but I also what them to learn that this world is a living world, not a video game (all play video games and love RPG's), things you do have consequences in the world. You can't just leave a place and not expect something to happen. There was nothing wrong with them leaving to the town, but Glassstaff is 100% sure they are there, and have assaulted his hideout.
I'd take it slightly further, have him gone, abandon this place for a time. Let the players hear one of the Redbrand mention that Glassstaff put him in charge, have a letter penned and interrupted expressing his desire to wait this little coup out in a safer place...
There's also, the idea that you could have him just go completely berserk and when the players return to the hideout he's on the warpath and anticipating the players. They enter into a room only to find him and half a dozen Redbrand standing there planning a full on assault on the town...
This is a great idea, I'll make one of the guards a named NPC with a letter from Glassstaff saying he is in charge until he returns, and he will be waiting at the Castle (Which I won't name, but will drop hints to the same Castle where Gundren is at and he will fight with King Grol (but try to flee if it gets too tough). I also do like that second idea though. I guess I'll keep my Inn map for another day.
I did stumble across this http://haluz.org/lmop/index.php (I found that some of my encounters are not challengeing at all for the party of 5 I was with and added a few extra Redbrands in rooms on the fly), what do you think (as a new DM I'm not sure how harder the balance will be).
Tools like that are a wonderful asset to beginning and veteran DMs alike. We have so much to do at the table that anything we can use to streamline is a blessing. Do, however, remember that it's a tool, you are still the one who has ultimate say.
If you don't feel that they're challenged, have a couple more minions show up, increase the AC by 1 or 2, "forget" to mark down the damage they took last round. You'll start to get a feel, the more you play, of what is challenging and what's not. Conversely, if you threw something at them that wasn't intended to kill them...then have it run away, drop it's HP pool, make it miss more often, even if that was a nat 20...
If you don't feel that they're challenged, have a couple more minions show up, increase the AC by 1 or 2, "forget" to mark down the damage they took last round. You'll start to get a feel, the more you play, of what is challenging and what's not. Conversely, if you threw something at them that wasn't intended to kill them...then have it run away, drop it's HP pool, make it miss more often, even if that was a nat 20...
I have been doing that, especially for the first few encounters where they fought some goblins. I think one of the characters (9hp) would have been 1 shot from an arrow had I not fudged some damage. That's a good idea about how to change encounters, have a few more show up, if they dispatch them too quickly.
Thank you for all the ideas, we may be playing tonight, I will let you know how they work out.
There is so much to the Lost Mine that you could quite literally never run your players's characters through anything else outside of this region. The landscape alone is full of potential. The history of the mine. The explosion of the mountain. Frontier towns have frontier attitudes. The different factions present in Phandalin have a vested interest in steering the mining town, but who gets the upper hand and why?
The Rockseker Brothers are incredible. They have such a simple, rich history that it would be a treat to have the characters befriend them only to adventure together. One of the pregens is a Rockseeker cousin, a Mintarn soldier. Phandalin can easily be adapted into a Tyranny of Dragons story or a homebrew that features dragons, riches, a shadow dragon that lives deep, deep in the mine.
You could flip the story completely, and have ALL THE CHARACTERS be Redbrands. Let that roll around in your head for a while.
You could also very easily adapt the story from the perspective of the Black Spider. He has interests in the forge of spells, and needs it in the war against (fill in the blank).
I had a bit of a concept for you to play with: introduce your new character as a double agent within the Red Brands possibly. It would reduce the encounter by one mob, & provide a player an opportunity for a surprise attack from within.
Don't empty the entire hideout- leave a Skeleton Crew manning the fort, leavesome mobs outside to fully encircle the building, & have the commander call the shots from the back.
that should reduce numbers enough with fighters in the wings to add to combat for difficulty sake.
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I have 5 (possibly 6 players as a 6th is joining after our last session). The party consists of (All level 2 currently), Bard, Barbarian, Ranger, Druid, Cleric, with the 6th being a Rogue. They are in the Redbrand Hideout (which they think is the wave echo cave) and just rescued Mirna Dendrar and her children from the Slave Pens. Instead of just escorting them out, they escorted them back to town and decided to rest for the rest of the evening. Most of my players are new players (and I'm also a new DM). I want them to learn from this that the world is a living breathing world, that things don't just stop while they aren't there.
My plan is to have the Redbrands attack them while they are sleeping, but I don't want to TPK them. They are staying 2 to a room with Sildar being in one of the rooms with them currently. The rogue that is joining will be another friend of Sildar to help search for Irano in Phandalin. I want to make the encounter challenging, but I don't want to kill them. I have already drawn up a map (4 rooms 20'x20' that they will be staying in 3 of the rooms).
My other plan is to have Glassstaff be gone but show up later in the story because he is already alerted that people were in the hideout (you just can't kill people and walk away). When they return there will be some basic traps in the cave (secret entrance is what they found), plus a few extra guards as well.
Help this new DM out please!
Thanks! Edit: I've added the session notes I wrote up after the last session we had.
Session 3 (22MAR18)
After the party dispatched of the 4 Redbrand Thugs in the middle of Phandadlin, a rotund older human came running up to them yelling at them to find out what they were doing. He explained that the thugs were just a band of mercenaries and were going to be heading on their way soon. The party ignored this man (Which they found out was the Mayor), picked up the thugs and carried them back up the hill toward Tresendar Manor. They found their way back in via the underground tunnel and bargained with the Nothic, who was not happy that he was brought dead things. The party learned that this Nothic wanted "fresh meat" as in alive to play with before he fed. The Nothic was satisfied with a new deal to bring a plaything to him. The party ventured north and found a secret door that led to a crypt. After walking into the room 3 skeletons were animated and attacked. After quickly dispatching the skeletons they headed to the double brass doors to the south and did not find anything of use besides a dusty, not traveled hallway about 50 ft in length. Turning around back into the crypt and headed to the north-east door of the crypt, Verrona without checking for anything opened the door and was met with an arrow to the shoulder. Tre put one of the Redbrands asleep while Tealus and Aldin dispatched the two remaining guards to the room. Upon entering, the group found three very scared humans, one older lady and two young children. After tying up the sleeping guard, Verrona attempted to pick the lock to the iron bars. She was barely able to pick the lock and they conversed with the woman, learning that she was the Wife of Thel the woodcarver who was killed in town a few days ago. She let the group know of a rare pendant in the South East portion in Thundertree. The band then escorted the prisoners out of the pens and to the exit. Afterwords they tossed their prisoner guard to the Nothic to keep their end of the deal. The Nothic then sensed that Tealus had a play thing in his backpack and negotiated another deal with just Tealus. Upon throwing a rat that he had captured previously to the Nothic, it disappeared in a puff of arcane smoke when it was eaten. Thinking it had been tricked, but Tealus convinced him that he was also tricked and promised to bring another rat to him in exchange for information about anyone coming and going. The party then decided to head back into town to rest up and gather supplies before exploring the rest of the underground hideout.
Your instincts are spot on in how you'd like to approach this, and any of your options would work just fine. However, since you're playing with a table of newer people I'd offer to not deviate too strongly from the story, improvising something too deep into the story may cause unforeseen mishaps.
Your idea about the Redbrands retaliating is perfect. In response you have the hideout on high alert, and replace the killed Redbrands with some new red shirts. The secret entrance is blocked, trapped, highly guarded, or any combination there in. Toss out a squad of Redbrands to punish the town, 4-6 of them spread out about the town seems like a good annoyance. Make sure they can see an unnamed NPC or two suffer for the player's actions, it's right in line with Glassstaff's approach to things. The only thing to be careful of is it may set a precedence, your players may adopt the idea in their heads that they must finish a "dungeon" before leaving to rest. Try not to make the town they retreat to suffer too often.
Glassstaff can be handled in two ways and again your idea is sound. I'd take it slightly further, have him gone, abandon this place for a time. Let the players hear one of the Redbrand mention that Glassstaff put him in charge, have a letter penned and interrupted expressing his desire to wait this little coup out in a safer place, or just have one of the dieing Redbrand exclaim that "you'll never catch him". Then, because you've got a good deal of material left, pick a key location further into the story to have him lounging at when the players stumble across secret base number 2. There's also, the idea that you could have him just go completely berserk and when the players return to the hideout he's on the warpath and anticipating the players. They enter into a room only to find him and half a dozen Redbrand standing there planning a full on assault on the town...
Tools like that are a wonderful asset to beginning and veteran DMs alike. We have so much to do at the table that anything we can use to streamline is a blessing. Do, however, remember that it's a tool, you are still the one who has ultimate say.
If you don't feel that they're challenged, have a couple more minions show up, increase the AC by 1 or 2, "forget" to mark down the damage they took last round. You'll start to get a feel, the more you play, of what is challenging and what's not. Conversely, if you threw something at them that wasn't intended to kill them...then have it run away, drop it's HP pool, make it miss more often, even if that was a nat 20...
I have been doing that, especially for the first few encounters where they fought some goblins. I think one of the characters (9hp) would have been 1 shot from an arrow had I not fudged some damage. That's a good idea about how to change encounters, have a few more show up, if they dispatch them too quickly.
Thank you for all the ideas, we may be playing tonight, I will let you know how they work out.
There is so much to the Lost Mine that you could quite literally never run your players's characters through anything else outside of this region. The landscape alone is full of potential. The history of the mine. The explosion of the mountain. Frontier towns have frontier attitudes. The different factions present in Phandalin have a vested interest in steering the mining town, but who gets the upper hand and why?
The Rockseker Brothers are incredible. They have such a simple, rich history that it would be a treat to have the characters befriend them only to adventure together. One of the pregens is a Rockseeker cousin, a Mintarn soldier. Phandalin can easily be adapted into a Tyranny of Dragons story or a homebrew that features dragons, riches, a shadow dragon that lives deep, deep in the mine.
You could flip the story completely, and have ALL THE CHARACTERS be Redbrands. Let that roll around in your head for a while.
You could also very easily adapt the story from the perspective of the Black Spider. He has interests in the forge of spells, and needs it in the war against (fill in the blank).
Honestly, it's endless.
I had a bit of a concept for you to play with: introduce your new character as a double agent within the Red Brands possibly. It would reduce the encounter by one mob, & provide a player an opportunity for a surprise attack from within.
Don't empty the entire hideout- leave a Skeleton Crew manning the fort, leavesome mobs outside to fully encircle the building, & have the commander call the shots from the back.
that should reduce numbers enough with fighters in the wings to add to combat for difficulty sake.