Longish post so important bits in bold for those of you who want to skip some reading.
My party are going down through hell, aiming to get to the 4th layer to get a powerful artifact belonging to a pit fiend. To do so they have to navigate through the earlier 3 levels, probably having to make contracts. So far they have just reached the second layer, and three contracts have been signed:
The first was a simple contract with an imp who agreed to be their guide in return for money. In reality he is there more to spy on them for his master.
The second was with the archdevil of the first layer, Zariel. In return for passage to the second layer they will capture and bring back a devil from the 5th layer for her. There are also some tempting optional clauses they can activate at a later date
The third was an individual contract between Zariel and our rogue. In return for a powerful weapon he will kill a paladin for her.
The first question I have for the DM's out there is to check this part of contract number 2:"This task must be carried out within one week of the signing of this contract. Every day thereafter the recipient must pay the sum of 1,000 gold pieces to the scribe." Now when I wrote this I intended it to trick the party which it did. From an evil devil's point of view writing this contract those are two separate sentences with separate consequences. Firstly the task must be completed in a week, secondly every day afterwards the party have to pay 1000gp per day, ie. every day forever. Is that ambiguous enough to be fair or a bit too much of a stretch?
The second is to do with the rogues deal. It was specifically designed to tempt him (the other players have their own coming up) and it worked. He used to be an assassin for hire before being converted into the raven queens assassin, killing those who try to cheat death, but also agreeing not to kill needlessly. So by accepting this contract it is a return to his old ways. The player was a little too keen to take this deal and I plan on there being some consequences to making a deal with a deeply evil Archdevil.
Firstly, if he carries through the assassination his alignment will probably shift to evil, and the raven queen will be mightily pissed off.
Secondly, if he fails to kill this person within a month his soul is forfeit. As such I plan on Zariel making things difficult for him to actually succeed, such as tipping off the paladin causing him to go into hiding or capturing him with her cult and keeping him locked up.
And thirdly, the weapon he gets will definitely be cursed. It will still be very powerful and useful, but I want it to have downsides, so any help coming up with ideas for the curse would be amazing. I have two things I plan to include: the classic curse effect of being unable to unattune, and secondly through one of its abilities or killing enemies it captures souls and sends them to the hells, further pissing off the raven queen.
So that's the extent of the mess my party is already in, cant wait to see what they get into over the next 3+ levels of hell. Thanks in advance for any help and advice!
You know your party best and what they will enjoy, but around this kind of area - especially when it comes to tricky wording - my experience tells me that players do not enjoy being duped in this way.
What is the fun for the players in discovering that they have to pay 1000g per day forever? How many days can they actually have to follow that for before they are broke? Technically it's the scribe tricking them, but is this Dungeons and Dragons or Bachelors and Barristers? You're relying on the players understanding a need to be savvy about contracts, not their characters. At the very least, every player who sees the contract should be given an Intelligence based check to see if they understand what the contract entails. Otherwise this is bringing in a critical thinking skill which is based in grammar and terminology that has in-game consequences on the characters. If someone is playing an Intelligence 20 wizard, then they should have a good chance of spotting it.
Is there a way out of the contract?
The Rogue has accepted his deal, for greed. That's fine, and it's his choice, but do make sure they are aware of the consequences.
Curses work best when they're frustrating or annoying but don't de-power a character. Curses I've used have included:
Any food other than raw red meat causes the character to vomit and tastes like sewage.
A Tarrasque Hide Cloak gives the wearer a mortal fear of man-made objects made from clay.
The character sees everybody as having the face of their dead grandmother
Player knowledge often falls far short of Character knowledge. Same goes for ability. How does an average human with an Int of 10 or 11 play or interpret information as a being with an Int of 18 or 20?
I'm on board with the principle that the Characters be allowed to gain knowledge or insight that the Players don't inherently have. Additionally, sometimes we have to be more blunt with the descriptions and hints that the players get. They overlook things. Alot of things. Most likely they will miss subtle clues, hints and tricky contract clauses that you give them. I can only suggest that you allow the Characters an opportunity or three to sniff out the bad faith attempt.
Curses are in a very similar vein to tricky clauses. There should be a way to undo the curse that the PCs can discover and apply, or an opportunity to avoid the curse altogether. The power that the weapon/magic item has is the temptation. The ability to resist that temptation, or corruption, might need to be offered in turn.
Requiring the cursed weapon's attuned wielder to "feed the blade" with souls of those it has slain or become it's next victim gives the player a decision of how to play this out. Those souls don't have to belong to "good and innocent" people. There is an opportunity to do "good" with something "evil". This also allows for the local constabulary to investigate and track a serial killer in their midst.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
On the 1,000 gp one, If you follow through with it, I would see this as an opportunity for the devil to come to collect and, if and when the characters realize they can't pay up, to have the devil offer to negate that part of the contract in exchange for something else that they want. Maybe not even something big, but hey, the devil got a two for one by tricking the party
That way it can move things forward in an interesting way, not just burden the party with a debt they can't pay, and also teach them a lesson about too cavalierly entering into contracts with devils.
On the 1,000 gp one, If you follow through with it, I would see this as an opportunity for the devil to come to collect and, if and when the characters realize they can't pay up, to have the devil offer to negate that part of the contract in exchange for something else that they want. Maybe not even something big, but hey, the devil got a two for one by tricking the party
That way it can move things forward in an interesting way, not just burden the party with a debt they can't pay, and also teach them a lesson about too cavalierly entering into contracts with devils.
In fact, forcing the characters to default and then putting them to work doing "little tasks" should be the real point behind the contract.
Though I want to second the call that the PCs shouldn't be forced to make deals in order to proceed, there should always be some alternative option for them to find if they're willing to try.
Also, there needs to be some means of enforcing the contracts, especially the one with the imp. An imp by itself isn't exactly going to be in a position to do anything if the party reacts to his demands that they pay up by stuffing him head-first into a barrel filled with holy water.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm very big on embedding a Corruption Point system for things like this. Fiends are supposed to be the epitome of evil and disgust, a reflection of our worst sins and darkest desires. I find that players (through no fault of their own) often deal with fiends as they would deal with any other encounter, such as guards, goblins, dragons, or pixies. Meaning, they handle the encounter as they see fit and then wash their hands free of it as they continue on with their adventuring. However, the inherent nature of fiends is to be fearsome, traumatizing, and abovee all else, influential.
I would go further than the contracts (which are very cool by the way) and embed a corruption mechanic that begins to accrue "corruption points" vs. Wisdom Save. For every day the party finds themselves in the service of a fiend, such as hunting down the paladin or trying to find and capture the devil on level 5, they should roll a Wisdom save. Heck, even having a long, detailed conversation with Zariel would impose a save in my book. On a failed save, the PC can't resist the allure of the fiendish lifestyle - e.g. take what you want, when you want it, however you want to - and thus gains a corruption point. When the party reaches 5 corruption points, I would have their alignment shift.
What I have found in my years of D&D is that players will very rarely change their PC's alignment consciously. But, if you keep things immersive, a scenario like this would present a challenge similar to real life. People (for the most part) don't just choose one day to be good or to be evil after their long rest in their homes. Instead, that moral compass is a culmination of experience and temptations that we face in life. So, if the party is acting in service to or on behalf of fiends, make them roll to see if their accumalted wisdom is enough to maintain their moral code or if their PC slowly begins to sympathize with a more evil mindset. It will stimulate player creativity and then give them a sharper focus on how to start acting good (aka not in the service of devils) if they want to regain their gods favor/be good citizens again.
Longish post so important bits in bold for those of you who want to skip some reading.
My party are going down through hell, aiming to get to the 4th layer to get a powerful artifact belonging to a pit fiend. To do so they have to navigate through the earlier 3 levels, probably having to make contracts. So far they have just reached the second layer, and three contracts have been signed:
The first question I have for the DM's out there is to check this part of contract number 2: "This task must be carried out within one week of the signing of this contract. Every day thereafter the recipient must pay the sum of 1,000 gold pieces to the scribe." Now when I wrote this I intended it to trick the party which it did. From an evil devil's point of view writing this contract those are two separate sentences with separate consequences. Firstly the task must be completed in a week, secondly every day afterwards the party have to pay 1000gp per day, ie. every day forever. Is that ambiguous enough to be fair or a bit too much of a stretch?
The second is to do with the rogues deal. It was specifically designed to tempt him (the other players have their own coming up) and it worked. He used to be an assassin for hire before being converted into the raven queens assassin, killing those who try to cheat death, but also agreeing not to kill needlessly. So by accepting this contract it is a return to his old ways. The player was a little too keen to take this deal and I plan on there being some consequences to making a deal with a deeply evil Archdevil.
Firstly, if he carries through the assassination his alignment will probably shift to evil, and the raven queen will be mightily pissed off.
Secondly, if he fails to kill this person within a month his soul is forfeit. As such I plan on Zariel making things difficult for him to actually succeed, such as tipping off the paladin causing him to go into hiding or capturing him with her cult and keeping him locked up.
And thirdly, the weapon he gets will definitely be cursed. It will still be very powerful and useful, but I want it to have downsides, so any help coming up with ideas for the curse would be amazing. I have two things I plan to include: the classic curse effect of being unable to unattune, and secondly through one of its abilities or killing enemies it captures souls and sends them to the hells, further pissing off the raven queen.
So that's the extent of the mess my party is already in, cant wait to see what they get into over the next 3+ levels of hell. Thanks in advance for any help and advice!
You know your party best and what they will enjoy, but around this kind of area - especially when it comes to tricky wording - my experience tells me that players do not enjoy being duped in this way.
What is the fun for the players in discovering that they have to pay 1000g per day forever? How many days can they actually have to follow that for before they are broke? Technically it's the scribe tricking them, but is this Dungeons and Dragons or Bachelors and Barristers? You're relying on the players understanding a need to be savvy about contracts, not their characters. At the very least, every player who sees the contract should be given an Intelligence based check to see if they understand what the contract entails. Otherwise this is bringing in a critical thinking skill which is based in grammar and terminology that has in-game consequences on the characters. If someone is playing an Intelligence 20 wizard, then they should have a good chance of spotting it.
Is there a way out of the contract?
The Rogue has accepted his deal, for greed. That's fine, and it's his choice, but do make sure they are aware of the consequences.
Curses work best when they're frustrating or annoying but don't de-power a character. Curses I've used have included:
Player knowledge often falls far short of Character knowledge. Same goes for ability. How does an average human with an Int of 10 or 11 play or interpret information as a being with an Int of 18 or 20?
I'm on board with the principle that the Characters be allowed to gain knowledge or insight that the Players don't inherently have. Additionally, sometimes we have to be more blunt with the descriptions and hints that the players get. They overlook things. Alot of things. Most likely they will miss subtle clues, hints and tricky contract clauses that you give them. I can only suggest that you allow the Characters an opportunity or three to sniff out the bad faith attempt.
Curses are in a very similar vein to tricky clauses. There should be a way to undo the curse that the PCs can discover and apply, or an opportunity to avoid the curse altogether. The power that the weapon/magic item has is the temptation. The ability to resist that temptation, or corruption, might need to be offered in turn.
Requiring the cursed weapon's attuned wielder to "feed the blade" with souls of those it has slain or become it's next victim gives the player a decision of how to play this out. Those souls don't have to belong to "good and innocent" people. There is an opportunity to do "good" with something "evil". This also allows for the local constabulary to investigate and track a serial killer in their midst.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
On the 1,000 gp one, If you follow through with it, I would see this as an opportunity for the devil to come to collect and, if and when the characters realize they can't pay up, to have the devil offer to negate that part of the contract in exchange for something else that they want. Maybe not even something big, but hey, the devil got a two for one by tricking the party
That way it can move things forward in an interesting way, not just burden the party with a debt they can't pay, and also teach them a lesson about too cavalierly entering into contracts with devils.
The players ought to know trhat deals with the devil(s) always turn out to their disfavor.
So if the only way to complete the adventure is to do a deal with a devil that turns out to be too good to be true, I'd be pissed as a player
In fact, forcing the characters to default and then putting them to work doing "little tasks" should be the real point behind the contract.
Though I want to second the call that the PCs shouldn't be forced to make deals in order to proceed, there should always be some alternative option for them to find if they're willing to try.
Also, there needs to be some means of enforcing the contracts, especially the one with the imp. An imp by itself isn't exactly going to be in a position to do anything if the party reacts to his demands that they pay up by stuffing him head-first into a barrel filled with holy water.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm very big on embedding a Corruption Point system for things like this. Fiends are supposed to be the epitome of evil and disgust, a reflection of our worst sins and darkest desires. I find that players (through no fault of their own) often deal with fiends as they would deal with any other encounter, such as guards, goblins, dragons, or pixies. Meaning, they handle the encounter as they see fit and then wash their hands free of it as they continue on with their adventuring. However, the inherent nature of fiends is to be fearsome, traumatizing, and abovee all else, influential.
I would go further than the contracts (which are very cool by the way) and embed a corruption mechanic that begins to accrue "corruption points" vs. Wisdom Save. For every day the party finds themselves in the service of a fiend, such as hunting down the paladin or trying to find and capture the devil on level 5, they should roll a Wisdom save. Heck, even having a long, detailed conversation with Zariel would impose a save in my book. On a failed save, the PC can't resist the allure of the fiendish lifestyle - e.g. take what you want, when you want it, however you want to - and thus gains a corruption point. When the party reaches 5 corruption points, I would have their alignment shift.
What I have found in my years of D&D is that players will very rarely change their PC's alignment consciously. But, if you keep things immersive, a scenario like this would present a challenge similar to real life. People (for the most part) don't just choose one day to be good or to be evil after their long rest in their homes. Instead, that moral compass is a culmination of experience and temptations that we face in life. So, if the party is acting in service to or on behalf of fiends, make them roll to see if their accumalted wisdom is enough to maintain their moral code or if their PC slowly begins to sympathize with a more evil mindset. It will stimulate player creativity and then give them a sharper focus on how to start acting good (aka not in the service of devils) if they want to regain their gods favor/be good citizens again.
Good luck!