I am wrapping up Lost Mine of Phandelver as my first DM experience, and looking to DM something new. I am really interested in Tomb of Annihilation for its setting and flavor. I would run it less deadly than written; neither my players nor I are looking for the meat grinder experience.
We play for about 2 hours, 2x a month. My question is: how long would it take to go through, and would it feel like too much of a slog? My fear is that given the limited amount of time we can play in a given month, combined with all the hex crawls, it may just feel too slow as the party spends real-life weeks and months to go between destinations.
So, if your party really likes dungeon crawls and combat, ToA is great. If your party likes to RP with NPCs...there's not much of that for a considerable chunk of the adventure. Also, given that you only play four hours a month and that combat takes so long, they might feel like they are in a never-ending fight.
Since you said you're already not interested in running the module as-written, you might consider cutting down the travel time, minimizing random encounters, and having a clearer roadmap to Omu. To be perfectly honest, the jungle itself is almost irrelevant except as a means of grinding XP and getting the feel of Chult. You could drop your players off in Omu at level 8 or so and nothing would really change, story-wise.
I've played ToA. It took us 36 x 4 hour sessions to complete it though the DM added in a couple of modules from DMs guild because magic items are relatively scarce in the module itself. (We were running it using AL rules so the DM couldn't add magic items - if you are running it for a group at home you can add what you want). Factoring out the extra content it was still probably 28-30 sessions and we did not do everything in the book.
Chult is a cool setting but the quests in ToA are mostly around the edge of the continent. If you start at Port Nyanzaru and push south into the jungles then there are several encounters on that route but several that the party won't run into. For example, the party generally won't have the time to journey to the mountains in the south to deal with the dwarven mine or elsewhere due to the time limits imposed by the Death Curse which is a fundamental plot element in ToA. Some of the quests are also driven by which guide the party decides to use since each comes with their own side quests and in some cases plot twists.
In terms of the hex crawl aspect, I would only do as much as you and your players are interested in doing. Hex crawl is interesting for the first few hexes but then it quickly becomes repetitive and boring with random encounters with little or no meaning and little or no rewards. So, at a certain point, unless something interesting is going to happen, I'd just narrate a few days of slogging through the jungle. This works fine if you are using milestones for leveling, not so much for XP leveling. ToA was designed so that the party needs to gain several levels before reaching the hidden city and its challenges. The XP needed to do this is fleshed out via the random encounters in the jungle but if you are leveling using milestones, you don't need to let the game drag so that the players can earn XP (if you are using XP, it becomes quite a bit more work for the DM to add interesting/logical encounters in the jungle - but it can be done.
Also, if you ARE going to have random events - roll them in advance so that you have an idea of what things are likely to occur in what order and so you can have anything you need to run those random encounters already prepared.
Given your limited time, if you decide to play it, I would definitely focus on the premade content and only include as much random encounter/jungle travel content as needed to get the flavor. e.g. Dangerous land of undead and dinosaurs with some very unusual environmental effects that can be deadly as well.
Thanks for the input. It's unfortunate to hear that the jungle can feel sloggy. Seems like the hexcrawl is really what makes the adventure. I was hoping to play based on XP because I feel like that's more satisfying. But given what's being said about the jungle, sounds like I may need to look at milestone, or perhaps a combination of the two somehow.
I would likely given my players 179 days rather than 79 so that they have time to explore, especially PN, so they can perhaps get to some other interesting locations. And I agree with pre-rolling random encounters - I do that anyway on LMoP. Based on the feedback above, I should probably prep random encounters with a lot of roleplaying to make up for the lack of it during the jungle. My players will still be fairly new to the game, and it might be hard for them to carry that RP load by themselves.
You can absolutely run it on XP - although you might need to adjust/tweak some locations if they find them very late or very early.
A log of the slog of the jungle really comes down to the dynamics of your group. You can make the jungle exploration more lightweight/fast-forward by reducing the frequency of encounters, or crank it up if they are enjoying it. Likewise, some groups enjoy the logistics challenge of ensuring there's drinkable water, rations rotting in the damp jungle and so on. But again, it can be done lightweight if that is not what the group (or you) is into.
I think the ky thing to ask is how important completion is relative to the play experience? I completely agree that all groups need a goal - but some groups will stray off on every single side opportunity, and others will march directly towards a goal, pushing all suggestions for side quests out of the way.
If you want to play very goal oriented, you could consider bumping up their starting level and minimise the jungle encounters, but if the group enjoys a lots of internal RP, side quests, and exploration - then you can take them through the whole thing. A lot of this will be up to you to decide/consider and discuss with the group.
I've played it twice, both with XP leveling. It's perfectly doable, even if you want to minimize some of the jungle slog. You can also consider giving XP for handling RP encounters if you're want to adjust some of the jungle grinding. In either case, I recommend bumping up the starting level to 4 and trying to have an NPC stick with the party through the jungle AND in the Tomb. Having Eku or Orvex or Artus there to bounce RP off of will lift the RP load some and give you a means of dropping hints.
I agree with overchord - the critical piece will be determining if your group is going to thrive in a true sandbox (which this module very much is), or if you need to provide a little more structure for goal-oriented groups. You can always move locations into or out of the jungle as needed. Chult is yours to sculpt.
Yup, good call on XP for RP encounters. What you’re saying about the sandbox makes sense - I am not sure my players want something that sandboxy so we will have to discuss. Is a lot of time spent discussing rations, getting lost, etc. one of my big concerns is that these survival elements - which seem really fun in theory - will really suck the wind out of short, 2 hour sessions.
Yup, good call on XP for RP encounters. What you’re saying about the sandbox makes sense - I am not sure my players want something that sandboxy so we will have to discuss. Is a lot of time spent discussing rations, getting lost, etc. one of my big concerns is that these survival elements - which seem really fun in theory - will really suck the wind out of short, 2 hour sessions.
Just a quick comment. The survival elements aren't actually fun in theory. Whether the survival elements are "fun" very much depends on the players and in my experience most don't actually find it fun. The survival element adds book-keeping, requires session time spent looking for water, food, shelter - none of which are usually very much fun after the first or second time the DM has you rolling dice to find something to eat, never mind the consequences if the party doesn't find something safe to eat. Catching diseases, dealing with bad food, bad water, constant rain, bugs, other hazards usually just isn't much fun for a lot of players. I find more DMs think it is fun than players and I have met some players who start off saying cool but quickly decide it isn't as cool as they thought it would be.
So, if you want to keep the survival elements, check with the players if that is something they are actually interested in. If not, then the game provides solutions for some of the problems (bug repellent, rain catchers for potable water [there is NO drinkable water on the ground in Chult], a bit of hunting/scavenging for food [especially with a local guide who might be able to identify plants that are safe to eat]) .. so in the end you can keep the actual survival game play time to a minimum while still keeping most of the flavor which you probably want to do when setting the scene and tone of travel in the jungle.
A slightly off topic question - is there reason for players to go back to PN? Seems like an amazing city and it would be a shame for them to leave and not return until the very end.
A slightly off topic question - is there reason for players to go back to PN? Seems like an amazing city and it would be a shame for them to leave and not return until the very end.
Generally no. There are a few nearby quests where the party might return to Port Nyanzaru afterward to resupply. However, after the party goes deep into the jungle, the travel time in the jungle just makes it prohibitive to go back to Port Nyanzaru unless the DM adds some teleportation circles or another fast means of transportation. It is literally weeks of jungle travel since the movement is 1 hex/day through jungle, 2 hexes/day if you can use a river with days of monsoon rains slowing or preventing travel altogether.
Also, if you are thinking of running ToA there are several good modules/adventures available on DMsGuild that can be used to supplement with encounters. The series of DDAL-07-XX modules for adventurers league are aimed at a range of levels. In addition there are some guild adept modules like Return of the Lizard King that can also be fitted in. Finally, the Hidden Shrine of Tamaochan from Tales from the Yawning Portal is also a good fit for the jungles of Chult. These can be very useful for supplementing the encounters available in the jungle in ToA and can be used in place of random encounters in some cases.
A slightly off topic question - is there reason for players to go back to PN? Seems like an amazing city and it would be a shame for them to leave and not return until the very end.
Short answer is, only if the DM fabricates one.
The first time I played, we went through the jungle and ended up in Fort Beluarian. The aftermath of what we did and found there made us concerned about maritime threats related to the death curse, so we returned to Port Nyanzaru to resupply and charter a ship to take us south where we could deal with them. From there, we went on foot to Omu.
The second playthrough, the party had to go back to Port Nyanzaru to get a new guide (highlight for spoilers: the DM decided Azaka would want to stay away from the party around the full moon, necessitating a replacement) and check on some NPCs who were afflicted with the curse. Quick stop, and we headed back into the jungle.
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I am wrapping up Lost Mine of Phandelver as my first DM experience, and looking to DM something new. I am really interested in Tomb of Annihilation for its setting and flavor. I would run it less deadly than written; neither my players nor I are looking for the meat grinder experience.
We play for about 2 hours, 2x a month. My question is: how long would it take to go through, and would it feel like too much of a slog? My fear is that given the limited amount of time we can play in a given month, combined with all the hex crawls, it may just feel too slow as the party spends real-life weeks and months to go between destinations.
So, if your party really likes dungeon crawls and combat, ToA is great. If your party likes to RP with NPCs...there's not much of that for a considerable chunk of the adventure. Also, given that you only play four hours a month and that combat takes so long, they might feel like they are in a never-ending fight.
Since you said you're already not interested in running the module as-written, you might consider cutting down the travel time, minimizing random encounters, and having a clearer roadmap to Omu. To be perfectly honest, the jungle itself is almost irrelevant except as a means of grinding XP and getting the feel of Chult. You could drop your players off in Omu at level 8 or so and nothing would really change, story-wise.
I've played ToA. It took us 36 x 4 hour sessions to complete it though the DM added in a couple of modules from DMs guild because magic items are relatively scarce in the module itself. (We were running it using AL rules so the DM couldn't add magic items - if you are running it for a group at home you can add what you want). Factoring out the extra content it was still probably 28-30 sessions and we did not do everything in the book.
Chult is a cool setting but the quests in ToA are mostly around the edge of the continent. If you start at Port Nyanzaru and push south into the jungles then there are several encounters on that route but several that the party won't run into. For example, the party generally won't have the time to journey to the mountains in the south to deal with the dwarven mine or elsewhere due to the time limits imposed by the Death Curse which is a fundamental plot element in ToA. Some of the quests are also driven by which guide the party decides to use since each comes with their own side quests and in some cases plot twists.
In terms of the hex crawl aspect, I would only do as much as you and your players are interested in doing. Hex crawl is interesting for the first few hexes but then it quickly becomes repetitive and boring with random encounters with little or no meaning and little or no rewards. So, at a certain point, unless something interesting is going to happen, I'd just narrate a few days of slogging through the jungle. This works fine if you are using milestones for leveling, not so much for XP leveling. ToA was designed so that the party needs to gain several levels before reaching the hidden city and its challenges. The XP needed to do this is fleshed out via the random encounters in the jungle but if you are leveling using milestones, you don't need to let the game drag so that the players can earn XP (if you are using XP, it becomes quite a bit more work for the DM to add interesting/logical encounters in the jungle - but it can be done.
Also, if you ARE going to have random events - roll them in advance so that you have an idea of what things are likely to occur in what order and so you can have anything you need to run those random encounters already prepared.
Given your limited time, if you decide to play it, I would definitely focus on the premade content and only include as much random encounter/jungle travel content as needed to get the flavor. e.g. Dangerous land of undead and dinosaurs with some very unusual environmental effects that can be deadly as well.
Thanks for the input. It's unfortunate to hear that the jungle can feel sloggy. Seems like the hexcrawl is really what makes the adventure. I was hoping to play based on XP because I feel like that's more satisfying. But given what's being said about the jungle, sounds like I may need to look at milestone, or perhaps a combination of the two somehow.
I would likely given my players 179 days rather than 79 so that they have time to explore, especially PN, so they can perhaps get to some other interesting locations. And I agree with pre-rolling random encounters - I do that anyway on LMoP. Based on the feedback above, I should probably prep random encounters with a lot of roleplaying to make up for the lack of it during the jungle. My players will still be fairly new to the game, and it might be hard for them to carry that RP load by themselves.
You can absolutely run it on XP - although you might need to adjust/tweak some locations if they find them very late or very early.
A log of the slog of the jungle really comes down to the dynamics of your group. You can make the jungle exploration more lightweight/fast-forward by reducing the frequency of encounters, or crank it up if they are enjoying it. Likewise, some groups enjoy the logistics challenge of ensuring there's drinkable water, rations rotting in the damp jungle and so on. But again, it can be done lightweight if that is not what the group (or you) is into.
I think the ky thing to ask is how important completion is relative to the play experience? I completely agree that all groups need a goal - but some groups will stray off on every single side opportunity, and others will march directly towards a goal, pushing all suggestions for side quests out of the way.
If you want to play very goal oriented, you could consider bumping up their starting level and minimise the jungle encounters, but if the group enjoys a lots of internal RP, side quests, and exploration - then you can take them through the whole thing. A lot of this will be up to you to decide/consider and discuss with the group.
I've played it twice, both with XP leveling. It's perfectly doable, even if you want to minimize some of the jungle slog. You can also consider giving XP for handling RP encounters if you're want to adjust some of the jungle grinding. In either case, I recommend bumping up the starting level to 4 and trying to have an NPC stick with the party through the jungle AND in the Tomb. Having Eku or Orvex or Artus there to bounce RP off of will lift the RP load some and give you a means of dropping hints.
I agree with overchord - the critical piece will be determining if your group is going to thrive in a true sandbox (which this module very much is), or if you need to provide a little more structure for goal-oriented groups. You can always move locations into or out of the jungle as needed. Chult is yours to sculpt.
Yup, good call on XP for RP encounters. What you’re saying about the sandbox makes sense - I am not sure my players want something that sandboxy so we will have to discuss. Is a lot of time spent discussing rations, getting lost, etc. one of my big concerns is that these survival elements - which seem really fun in theory - will really suck the wind out of short, 2 hour sessions.
Just a quick comment. The survival elements aren't actually fun in theory. Whether the survival elements are "fun" very much depends on the players and in my experience most don't actually find it fun. The survival element adds book-keeping, requires session time spent looking for water, food, shelter - none of which are usually very much fun after the first or second time the DM has you rolling dice to find something to eat, never mind the consequences if the party doesn't find something safe to eat. Catching diseases, dealing with bad food, bad water, constant rain, bugs, other hazards usually just isn't much fun for a lot of players. I find more DMs think it is fun than players and I have met some players who start off saying cool but quickly decide it isn't as cool as they thought it would be.
So, if you want to keep the survival elements, check with the players if that is something they are actually interested in. If not, then the game provides solutions for some of the problems (bug repellent, rain catchers for potable water [there is NO drinkable water on the ground in Chult], a bit of hunting/scavenging for food [especially with a local guide who might be able to identify plants that are safe to eat]) .. so in the end you can keep the actual survival game play time to a minimum while still keeping most of the flavor which you probably want to do when setting the scene and tone of travel in the jungle.
Good point. I’ll talk to the players but I have a hunch they’ll want to drop or reduce the survival elements.
A slightly off topic question - is there reason for players to go back to PN? Seems like an amazing city and it would be a shame for them to leave and not return until the very end.
Generally no. There are a few nearby quests where the party might return to Port Nyanzaru afterward to resupply. However, after the party goes deep into the jungle, the travel time in the jungle just makes it prohibitive to go back to Port Nyanzaru unless the DM adds some teleportation circles or another fast means of transportation. It is literally weeks of jungle travel since the movement is 1 hex/day through jungle, 2 hexes/day if you can use a river with days of monsoon rains slowing or preventing travel altogether.
Also, if you are thinking of running ToA there are several good modules/adventures available on DMsGuild that can be used to supplement with encounters. The series of DDAL-07-XX modules for adventurers league are aimed at a range of levels. In addition there are some guild adept modules like Return of the Lizard King that can also be fitted in. Finally, the Hidden Shrine of Tamaochan from Tales from the Yawning Portal is also a good fit for the jungles of Chult. These can be very useful for supplementing the encounters available in the jungle in ToA and can be used in place of random encounters in some cases.
Short answer is, only if the DM fabricates one.
The first time I played, we went through the jungle and ended up in Fort Beluarian. The aftermath of what we did and found there made us concerned about maritime threats related to the death curse, so we returned to Port Nyanzaru to resupply and charter a ship to take us south where we could deal with them. From there, we went on foot to Omu.
The second playthrough, the party had to go back to Port Nyanzaru to get a new guide (highlight for spoilers: the DM decided Azaka would want to stay away from the party around the full moon, necessitating a replacement) and check on some NPCs who were afflicted with the curse. Quick stop, and we headed back into the jungle.