I just started a campaign with a successful 1st session, however I'm having difficulty creating a condition that pulls the group together. The biggest challenge is one character, an evil warlock who seeks lichdom (undying patron). He obviously doesn't want to reveal his power to the seemingly benevolent group and is mascarading as a merchant. In combat he just hides and says little to the others unless prompted, and I want to find a circumstance that forces him to become a more active member.
I have had his patron ask him to investigate the motives of another member of the group (who also has secret evil intentions of resurrecting his fallen celestial ancestor) hoping to advance a plot, but neither have acted on this.
Right now they have met up with a merchant caravan to travel to a city to the South. The merchants are secretly information dealers. Along the way they will be passing through land being sacked by opposing empires on the brink of war.
My concern is they will reach the city and no longer have reason to stick together, and I'm a bit lost on a hook.
My suggestion would be to just ask the player what set of circumstances would lead them to joining up with this group of other people. It's not as much a problem that they want to play a somewhat self-centered character who has goals that are not really conducive to the over-all story, but as a player, he needs to sort of buy into the game's dynamic just a bit or he's not actually playing with everyone else.
So yeah, I'd be like "So your dude is sort of evil and wants to be a lich someday, but that's not what is holding him back. Why is he wandering around with these other people and how does that move him toward his eventual goals? Is what they are doing helping him? Does he want to see them succeed so that he can get access to things he can't get on his own? Is he hoping to get at some dark lore by pointing his friends at other intelligent undead or necromancers in hopes of both removing the competition and getting access to the loot? What is his deal?" Make it clear that his character really needs to buy into the adventure at least a bit, and treat his friends nice enough that they would want to help him out doing some of the things he would like to do. An evil character doesn't have to cause conflict within the party.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Yeah, I should talk to him a bit. The issue is he has a tendency to not get attached at all to his characters. He seems to like creating PCs that are, overly useless and made to fail. I feel he needs to look at his RP less as a joke personality, but trying to drag this out of him has been an ordeal. I feel there needs to be some sort of story reason to force him out of his comfort zone.
There's no reason he can't stay in his comfort zone a bit and still be a decent party member. It's just that you have to explain to him that this is something of a cooperative game and that his characters need to, at the bare minimum, be people who want to adventure for some reason or another and be people who will, at the very least, grudgingly work with others to achieve a goal. If his character cannot meet these two very basic requirements, then he's not playing a character in the game.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Yeah the best thing to do with this is just sit down as a group and ask them outright: What do you guys think is a cool hook that would get you to work together?
I know, I know, you've fallen into the trap of multiple party members having "backstories so cool no one will ever find out about them", who are the "super secret super evil dbag" type characters, which makes it so they don't want to talk about anything and definitely don't want to reveal their super secret stuff. But it's a collaborative storytelling game. If you need help because they've painted you into a corner, it's TOTALLY acceptable to just ask. Just say outright "hey look, the way you guys have designed your characters, I'm at a loss as to why they would ever work together, and if we can't figure out some reason why they would actually work together the game is going to end when they inevitably go their own way, help me out here, how can we make this work". You're already shouldering the lions share of the work by doing all the story and encounter prep. It's not necessarily also your job to play the mind reader and figure out what will get them interested, and then drag them into a cooperative environment. They can help carry that load as well.
Ah, yes the evil loner type. This is why many sources, you can just search them up on the interwebs, say that "loners" are one of the 5 types of characters that you should never play in a game. Character's you can point to in movies, books, and comics that are so called archetypical loners are inactuality "joiners" and team players. Wolverine:Group, Aragorn:leads the fellowship, Batman: JLA, more bat-family members than you can shake a stick at. These are not "sulky secretive loners" they are members of a cohesive team. If the player wants a "loner" they have to adjust their Emo coolness to join up with the group...like period. Otherwise they need to find a DM willing to let them run a Solo game.
How about getting him to role up PC's that are actually required in your story, but are ultimately meant to be defeated?
If he roles characters that are made to fail, at least he can be advancing your plot hooks. Maybe the lich is discovered so goes into hiding, then he roles a spy in the group for the BBEG and gets discovered, then roles fighter to act as a merc to help the team through a hard dungeon (who cares if he dies), then a Lord of some sort that needs escorting across perilous territories and that Lord is actually the Lich with an alter-self amulet he made that is permanent and he's dead set on the parties demise - ultimate showdown is between him and the party ... something like that - just shooting ideas out :-)
Maybe he needs a new character every three levels of your other players or something?
Thanks for the replies, after talking with him we have something coming together (he just wants to play Emperor Palpatine), and agreed he needs to be more social and suave. We shall see how that pans out next session.
Actually, I have something going. The other evil member of the party wants to resurrect his fallen celestial ancestor. I had the warlocks patron ask him to investigate the motives of this seemingly benevolent character. The reason is that lichdom hints at a need for a celestial sacrifice and a lot of funding. The funding part comes in when the other evil character finds out the ancestor is long gone and his soul was trapped in a sentient item. From here the idea is the ancestor will urge his kin to use his council to rise to power and create the vision he had long ago. The warlock has the choice to ally with him allowing his desire to manifest as a Vader Palpatine duo rising to power. The fun part is how they will rope the NG players into this scheme.
Several, its quite vague so I'm just taking whatever fits my needs, might just get creative and homebrew a good bit of it. We of course need sacrifices, they are always fun. Read something about killing a celestial somewhere and it fits with the PCs story, so I'll take a bit of that. Lets add some rare and contraband material that normal people cant get and gives that mortuary vibe. Since the patron grants it over time, I'll probably have him complete horrific secret rituals that slowly pickle his body. Something like bathing in the blood of virgins, or slow poisoning.
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I just started a campaign with a successful 1st session, however I'm having difficulty creating a condition that pulls the group together. The biggest challenge is one character, an evil warlock who seeks lichdom (undying patron). He obviously doesn't want to reveal his power to the seemingly benevolent group and is mascarading as a merchant. In combat he just hides and says little to the others unless prompted, and I want to find a circumstance that forces him to become a more active member.
I have had his patron ask him to investigate the motives of another member of the group (who also has secret evil intentions of resurrecting his fallen celestial ancestor) hoping to advance a plot, but neither have acted on this.
Right now they have met up with a merchant caravan to travel to a city to the South. The merchants are secretly information dealers. Along the way they will be passing through land being sacked by opposing empires on the brink of war.
My concern is they will reach the city and no longer have reason to stick together, and I'm a bit lost on a hook.
My suggestion would be to just ask the player what set of circumstances would lead them to joining up with this group of other people. It's not as much a problem that they want to play a somewhat self-centered character who has goals that are not really conducive to the over-all story, but as a player, he needs to sort of buy into the game's dynamic just a bit or he's not actually playing with everyone else.
So yeah, I'd be like "So your dude is sort of evil and wants to be a lich someday, but that's not what is holding him back. Why is he wandering around with these other people and how does that move him toward his eventual goals? Is what they are doing helping him? Does he want to see them succeed so that he can get access to things he can't get on his own? Is he hoping to get at some dark lore by pointing his friends at other intelligent undead or necromancers in hopes of both removing the competition and getting access to the loot? What is his deal?" Make it clear that his character really needs to buy into the adventure at least a bit, and treat his friends nice enough that they would want to help him out doing some of the things he would like to do. An evil character doesn't have to cause conflict within the party.
Yeah, I should talk to him a bit. The issue is he has a tendency to not get attached at all to his characters. He seems to like creating PCs that are, overly useless and made to fail. I feel he needs to look at his RP less as a joke personality, but trying to drag this out of him has been an ordeal. I feel there needs to be some sort of story reason to force him out of his comfort zone.
There's no reason he can't stay in his comfort zone a bit and still be a decent party member. It's just that you have to explain to him that this is something of a cooperative game and that his characters need to, at the bare minimum, be people who want to adventure for some reason or another and be people who will, at the very least, grudgingly work with others to achieve a goal. If his character cannot meet these two very basic requirements, then he's not playing a character in the game.
Yeah the best thing to do with this is just sit down as a group and ask them outright: What do you guys think is a cool hook that would get you to work together?
I know, I know, you've fallen into the trap of multiple party members having "backstories so cool no one will ever find out about them", who are the "super secret super evil dbag" type characters, which makes it so they don't want to talk about anything and definitely don't want to reveal their super secret stuff. But it's a collaborative storytelling game. If you need help because they've painted you into a corner, it's TOTALLY acceptable to just ask. Just say outright "hey look, the way you guys have designed your characters, I'm at a loss as to why they would ever work together, and if we can't figure out some reason why they would actually work together the game is going to end when they inevitably go their own way, help me out here, how can we make this work". You're already shouldering the lions share of the work by doing all the story and encounter prep. It's not necessarily also your job to play the mind reader and figure out what will get them interested, and then drag them into a cooperative environment. They can help carry that load as well.
Ah, yes the evil loner type. This is why many sources, you can just search them up on the interwebs, say that "loners" are one of the 5 types of characters that you should never play in a game. Character's you can point to in movies, books, and comics that are so called archetypical loners are inactuality "joiners" and team players. Wolverine:Group, Aragorn:leads the fellowship, Batman: JLA, more bat-family members than you can shake a stick at. These are not "sulky secretive loners" they are members of a cohesive team. If the player wants a "loner" they have to adjust their Emo coolness to join up with the group...like period. Otherwise they need to find a DM willing to let them run a Solo game.
How about getting him to role up PC's that are actually required in your story, but are ultimately meant to be defeated?
If he roles characters that are made to fail, at least he can be advancing your plot hooks. Maybe the lich is discovered so goes into hiding, then he roles a spy in the group for the BBEG and gets discovered, then roles fighter to act as a merc to help the team through a hard dungeon (who cares if he dies), then a Lord of some sort that needs escorting across perilous territories and that Lord is actually the Lich with an alter-self amulet he made that is permanent and he's dead set on the parties demise - ultimate showdown is between him and the party ... something like that - just shooting ideas out :-)
Maybe he needs a new character every three levels of your other players or something?
Thanks for the replies, after talking with him we have something coming together (he just wants to play Emperor Palpatine), and agreed he needs to be more social and suave. We shall see how that pans out next session.
You should remind him that even Emperor Palpatine was a cool and friendly guy in the prequals in order to get what he wanted from everyone.
You should have the drive of the evil warlock link up to the party. Such as...
The drive of the warlock forces the warlock to join the party to fight something they both strive for.
The drive of the warlock fights the greater enemy of the party, forcing them to work together.
I love roleplaying, message me so we can set something up.
I talk everything D&D, message me for questions, chat, arguements, or roleplay!
Actually, I have something going. The other evil member of the party wants to resurrect his fallen celestial ancestor. I had the warlocks patron ask him to investigate the motives of this seemingly benevolent character. The reason is that lichdom hints at a need for a celestial sacrifice and a lot of funding. The funding part comes in when the other evil character finds out the ancestor is long gone and his soul was trapped in a sentient item. From here the idea is the ancestor will urge his kin to use his council to rise to power and create the vision he had long ago. The warlock has the choice to ally with him allowing his desire to manifest as a Vader Palpatine duo rising to power. The fun part is how they will rope the NG players into this scheme.
Which sources are you using for lichdom?
Several, its quite vague so I'm just taking whatever fits my needs, might just get creative and homebrew a good bit of it. We of course need sacrifices, they are always fun. Read something about killing a celestial somewhere and it fits with the PCs story, so I'll take a bit of that. Lets add some rare and contraband material that normal people cant get and gives that mortuary vibe. Since the patron grants it over time, I'll probably have him complete horrific secret rituals that slowly pickle his body. Something like bathing in the blood of virgins, or slow poisoning.